[Skribs]

I was just thinking, we have laser guide rods (although they aren't too popular), but what about LED guide rods? The LED wouldn't need to be calibrated for accuracy, and could allow you to put a flashlight on your handgun without requiring a new holster. Even better, for handguns without a rail (thinking many pocket pistols here) it would be an opportunity for a light.

Now, my DIY knowledge ranks up their with Napolean's work on nuclear physics, so I'm obviously not going to be the one to build a prototype. It was just an idea I had and wondered what others thought.

[dcarch]

The only thing I would worry about would be the durability of such a device. Otherwise, great idea!

[danweasel]

You might be on to something there...

[Drail]

If you depend upon battery powered electronics to sight your gun then one day you will be extremely disappointed.:scrutiny:

[LawScholar]

Hm. That's not a bad idea at all. Use a high impact Streamlight or Surefire LED...where to put the activation switch?

[forindooruseonly]

I think the amount of projected light you will get out of a guide rod sized LED light will be too dim to be really useful, yet give a really bright beacon to whoever is on the other end.

My smallest LED light is about a guide rod in diameter, and is something I would not try to clear a house with. Hurts your eyes to look at, though. Unless you've got a better small LED light than mine, it might be an issue.

[Skribs]

Drail, not for sighting, but for light. As in, it's 2 AM and I hear a noise, is it my cat knocking stuff over, my friend from out of town who's staying over, or a burglar?

Forindooruse, like I said, it was just an idea. And some light is better than no light when you're trying to figure out what you're pointing at. I have night lights all over, but they're dim/low power, just enough for me to see shadows on the ground so I don't trip over anything. I think it also depends on the guide rod. My LCP idea I think was mainly fantasy, since the guide-rod is about the size of the ink cartridge for a small pen. My XDm has a nice guide rod, thicker than a AA battery.

Where to put the activation switch? Got me there. Where is it on the Laser guiderods? I wouldn't want something like Crimson Trace, because I wouldn't want to use the light all the time.

[greyling22]

unless it has a reflector to focus the light, it's not going to be very bright. about what you would get this a keychain light. AND you'd have to find a place to stash the battery. I've never seen one small enough to fit inside a small guide rod. (maybe the same one they use for the lasers?)

[rcmodel]

I agree the reflector would be the stumbling block, and probably why nobody has done it yet.

I have a Streamlight Micro-Stream that runs on one AAA battery, and it puts out plenty enough light for a mini-TAC light inside a house.
It would put out the same light with an AAAA battery, which should be small enough for most guide rods.

The light is 3 1/2" long, the C-4 LED is less then 1/8" in dia, but the reflector is 1/2".
Without the reflector, you wouldn't have any focused light.

rc

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

The only thing I would worry about would be the durability of such a device. Otherwise, great idea!

The Lasermax guide rods can take quite a bit of abuse from one SIG torture test I read about.

If you depend upon battery powered electronics to sight your gun then one day you will be extremely disappointed.

I wish I had the ability to see in the dark too...Then I wouldn't need a light to not shoot family members.

[danweasel]

If you depend upon battery powered electronics to sight your gun then one day you will be extremely disappointed

When you have to change the battery?

It seems to me that you could run it off of a AAAA battery. You would probably not have a lot of life in it but that's what scheduled maintence is for right? How often do you use your pistol light really? The reflector would be a problem. I have faith that some engineer somewhere could make on though.

[TimboKhan]

Its not a bad idea, but it has it challenges.

Besides the technical challenges, ask yourself why you would want an underpowered light on the gun when you can have a very good light in your offhand.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

[Warp]

Drail, not for sighting, but for light. As in, it's 2 AM and I hear a noise, is it my cat knocking stuff over, my friend from out of town who's staying over, or a burglar?


I think this is a great time to have a hand held flashlight. Pointing a loaded gun at something that could be your friend from out of town is a bad idea. Plus the hand held flashlight is going to be a crap ton brighter (if you want it to be) and a lot easier to keep charged batteries in.

And yes, I am aware you can point a weapon light at the floor and use the bounce to illuminate an area, but even that still requires pointing the gun in at least the general direction you want the light, which I would be hesitant about under stress, and with the likely under-powered light you could actually fit in a guide rod probably wouldn't work all that well...especially compared to the hand held.

[Shipwreck]

I think you would have to do what the Lasermax guiderods do - they use like 3 of those tiny watch sized batteries. And, for an LED - unless its some of the newest tech that requires decent power and puts out heat - I don't see that the LED would do much. And, as others stated, you have the reflector issue. I don't see that it would do much besides find your keys at the doorknob at night :D

[Skribs]

Timbo, because I am not the creature from the sci-fi novel I am writing, and don't have a third hand for other things, such as opening/closing a door or calling 911. That is, I believe, the biggest reason people want weaponlights.
Also, if I don't need the second hand for something else, I'd rather use it to get a sturdier grip on the pistol.

Warp, I currently use a flashlight attachment, so this wouldn't be much different. It's also no different than mounting a flashlight on a shotgun and pointing it around, which I might add most people believe mounting a light to a shotgun is a necessity in HD. If you keep your finger off the trigger, you shouldn't shoot anything prematurely. *I'm not advocating breaking the rules, but am saying that when you hear a bump in the night, booger picker off the bang switch until you're ready to use lethal force.*

You guys are right about the reflector issue. But again, I'm not necessarily looking at something as powerful as a Surefire, but something bright enough that I could actually see what I'm pointing at.

[jp9mm]

Not a bad idea but wont get that much light output from the size and it would probably be as expensive as a rail light.

[Skribs]

I guess I should clarify, the reasons for this would be:
1. To enable the use of a flashlight for target identification purposes.
2. To enable #1 without requiring a modification to the size or shape of the weapon (i.e. adding a flashlight that would make it not fit into the holster you already have or add unecessary weight to a carry gun). Some weapons do not have a rail, making it harder to add a flashlight to the frame.
3. To enable both the gun and light to be used with one hand, allowing your other to be used for better control of the pistol.

I mainly thought of this in another thread asking if your nightstand guns were holstered, when another poster said "no, because I have a light and that won't fit in my holster."

[Warp]

I just don't think the technology is there yet.

[Ash]

The tech might not be there, but the idea remains interesting - perhaps even compelling.

[Robbins290]

Nice idea!

[barnbwt]

I think the idea's good enough to sell to a bunch of folks at gun shows, if nothing else:) Kinda like the shotgun magtube light that someone here rigged up a couple days back, and if simple/LED, it's gotta be cheaper than some of the "Tac-Lights" out there now.

A small (short life) battery-stack could easily power a sufficiently bright LED to illuminate a small room/hallway, if your eyes are already adjusted to darkness. Instead of a reflector, why not use a small fresnel lens for a diffuser? That would be very short, and give very good dispersion or focus (depending on the design).

Yeah, battery's short lived, but I always get a kick out of folks who complain they might forget to change the battery after use, but never worry about forgetting to reload the gun after shooting it :rolleyes:. Remember, your life depends on the batteries in your smoke/carbon monoxide detector every night. Batteries are plenty reliable nowadays, provided you test them twice a year (you practice more often than that, right ;)).

Keychain lights are very popular because they are good enough for illuminating small areas, so putting one on a gun would add some utility. Might be better than Tritium sights for seeing beyond your barrel in the dark, too (don't flame me, bro!:neener:). And there is something to be said for aiming with both hands when you're sleepy/adrenalined:).

The only missing piece is an easy way to turn it on quickly. Accelerometer switch perhaps? Lights up the second you grab the gun, and stays on for five minutes after it stops moving? Or even simpler, rest the gun on a magnetized stand (or stick a magnet w/ lanyard to the slide) that keeps the lightswitch in the "off" position until the gun is moved a couple inches away.

But the real money, the height of innovation, would be in the guide-rod CAMERA!! Laugh now, I'll bet the tech will be here within 5 years...(actually, it may already be here, look up Eyeborg sometime. Guy put a camera in his false-eye; http://www.eyeborgblog.com/ off topic, but very cool super-science!)
d
you know who to send the royalties to when you hit it big...:D

TCB

[MyGreenGuns]

"no, because I have a light and that won't fit in my holster."

^Hey, That was me! :)

I have seen holsters that accept a light, but I already have one I like for CC. It didnt seem right to buy one just to hold the gun at night. I carry a flashlight when I'm out in the world.

The low light output could be a positive if you wanted a dim light to navigate around in the dark. You'd be less likely to broadcast your position, expecially if you kept it pointed at the floor. You'd still need another way to illuminate your target, and two lights might be overkill.

Good idea! This could be your million.

[Warp]

Keychain lights are very popular because they are good enough for illuminating small areas, so putting one on a gun would add some utility. Might be better than Tritium sights for seeing beyond your barrel in the dark, too (don't flame me, bro!:neener:). And there is something to be said for aiming with both hands when you're sleepy/adrenalined:).


In my experience it takes a lot more light to adequately see/use your pistol sites than it does to identify a threat. WHERE the light is/is coming from is also very important. I would much much rather have tritium sites than a relatively dim light.

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

Timbo, because I am not the creature from the sci-fi novel I am writing, and don't have a third hand for other things, such as opening/closing a door or calling 911. That is, I believe, the biggest reason people want weaponlights.

Learn to shoot effectively with one hand. Pretty much all people were doing that with handguns since the invention of the handgun till around the 70s and 80s where the two handed grip became predominant. I use a weapon light on the pistol with a Surefire 6PX Defender as the main light.

[Skribs]

In my experience, warp, once you turn on a weaponlight in front of your sights, your sights are black. I still like night sights for carry, though.

Green, it was you! Wasn't trying to be mean or single you out, you just gave me the idea. Probably won't be my million, I don't have a design, don't know how to make one, and don't know who I'd find to make one...I just have an idea.

Barnbwt, a motion activated one would make your carry gun run out of batteries really fast. I think the laser model that's already out there, at least for XDm (since that's my gun its the one I looked at) has a switch that goes on the breakdown lever. They can find a spot for anything.

The guide-rod camera is similar to what is used by some characters in a sci-fi I'm working on, except they don't have a guide rod (they use a futuristic propulsion method, which allows you to just load bullets, not cartridges in, and doesn't require extraction or a recoil spring). Where the recoil spring would be is a camera, which connects to their cybernetic eyes, which means they don't even need to look down the sights (well, there aren't any sights, because they don't need them).

I did have an idea a while back if a group (like military or LEO) wanted to have accountability for their actions to use a camera mounted on the top rail for the sight. The camera could have a basic reticle, and it's feeding real time picture anyway (also easy transition to night vision if applicable), and whenever you pull the trigger, the camera takes a picture of what you were shooting at. But most LEO/military wouldn't pay for it.

[barnbwt]

I would much much rather have tritium sites than a relatively dim light.

The Law don't say you can't have both :D

Like I said, the little light (with today's batteries and LEDs) wouldn't be as bright as the Bajillion-candle-power, can-project-a-spot-on-the-moon tac-lights out there. But I just wonder about the wisdom of blasting an intruder (and yourself) with one of those when you've just woken up and your eyes are fully dilated (sorry for the hijack, BTW:o). Just turning on the light in the other room by reaching around the doorjamb in the morning hurts my eyes...

any light would be better than nothing in a very dark room, and you could still use Tritium night sights, especially if the LED light is well diffused. But no, you likely wouldn't generate enough background lighting to get great contrast off your sights.

But as a gun-show gimmick, I still think this thing would sell well...

TCB

[Mrcymstr]

Darn you! You got my brain wheels a turning! What about, for instance, instead of the guide rod being the light the recoil spring plug being the light? On an average 1911 with a GI guide rod the plug is just as large as many keychain LEDs and probably enough room for a reflector, might require some tweeking of the recoil spring but seems a feasible extension of your genius idea. Then run the switch around to the base of the trigger guard to be activated with your middle finger.

Or who said you couldn't leave the battery elsewhere (under the grips for instance) ala flexible head lights.

[TimboKhan]

Skrib, don't get me wrong, I think it's not a bad idea! Just some challenges is all.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

[Bovice]

This seems like a plausible idea. Those led keychains have tiny leds and give a lot of light. Cool stuff!

[Texan Scott]

I will NEVER put a light on one of my pistols, EVER. If something goes bump in the night, and my adrenaline is flowing, and I can't identify the moving thing making the noise, I AM NOT GOING TO POINT A LOADED GUN AT IT TO FIND OUT. It might be one of my KIDS!
Of course you'll say that as long as I don't have my finger on the trigger, it'll be fine, right? But I can't justify setting myself up to knowingly break one safety rule on the grounds that it'll be ok as long as I don't break any others.

[Havok7416]

This whole weapon light issue can be resolved very simply: Sleep with the lights ON!:neener:

[Walt Sherrill]

Seems like I've seen guide-rod mounted LASERs in the past.

In addition to the battery issue, and activation (turning it on and off, as needed), I wonder how you would calibrate it -- adjust it to work with each gun? The relationship of the guide-rod to the barrel is likely to be different with each gun, so it wouldn't be a simple process of installing and shooting.

[beatledog7]

Good concept, but like every concept it requires a means to design, produce and market it profitably. Therein lies the rub.

A lot of good ideas never get past prototype, not because they don't work, but because production costs cannot be more than offset by demand-driven pricing. The idea can't be made profitable.

[engineer88]

I am glad that I found this thread. I have often looked at my Arc AAA flashlight and said man, this is smaller than my Glocks guide rods. At 10 lumens that is plenty in my small house, you don't want wall splash back blinding you. Now away from home, my Surefire 6P or Streamlight PT1AA is much more preferable for the longer range and tighter beam.

That said, my issue with guide rod anything is modularity, or lack thereof. An Arc costs about $50, a new rod/spring for my Glock is about $5-10. I am supposed to put a new one in every 5-10,000 rounds, which means I am spending (figuring in you making a little cash off the design) say $70-75 every 5-10,000 rounds. Now, if it was somehow modular and I could just replace the spring I am sold. But even if not it is a far sight cheaper than a $300 guide rod laser twice a year.

I will reaffirm though, that I personally believe it would be adequate for the house but not as much for outdoors. I myself believe in learning good flashlight techniques, however my other hand may be tied up with a doorknob, family member, phone or obstacle of some sort so having the WML can never hurt.

Give it a couple of years, someone will make one and become a millionaire. :-)

[Skribs]

Walt, if it were designed for specific guns (which the guide rod lasers are) then calibration of each individual product wouldn't be an issue.

[skt239]

Its a great idea and if it worked, it would sell. It doesn't have to be very effective for people to shell out the cash for it and I imagine it would not be cheap. Just look at those stupid pistol bayonets, someone's buying them. This would at least have so sort of usefulness.

[TimboKhan]

At 10 lumens that is plenty in my small house

10 lumens isn't enough, at least for me. Certainly it's not enough for me to buy a product like this. I have a weaponlight on my XD that throws out something like 75 lumens, and a Surefire by my bedstand that throws out around 100. I live in a small condo, but if I am lighting something up, I want it lit up big, not just barely.

I have a Fenix E01, which throws about 10 lumens (and is a nice little light, by the way) I was in a dark garage househunting with a buddy a few months ago, and while it was useful, I was unable to discern stuff across the room.

You do not need to spend big bucks on a Surefire to have a good, solid tactical light. My current EDC light is a little energizer that I bought for under 10 bucks at Target, and it advertises 65 lumens. I don't know about that, but it's small and has a belt clip and while it wouldn't be my first choice to clear the house, it would totally be up to the task. I guess when it comes down to it, I would rather have too much light than not enough.

[Patrick Gookin]

Haha, this idea is pretty cool, although I can think of a few limitations. LED's take about 4 volts to work. Each battery, whether it's a AA, AAA, D, C, whatever, is 1.5 volts, so you would need 3 batteries. I'm sure you could use hearing aid batteries. They're much smaller and come in different sizes and capacities.

The only problem I see with this idea is how you would turn the light on. If you wanted a physical switch, you would have to have a wire going to the guide rod. Unfortunately, the only place you can access the guide rod is through the front, but you've got an LED there. A previous poster had some great ideas with an accelerometer or magnets. Even though those are awesome ideas, they not really all that practical. So, to me, this means you would need a wireless switch.

You would need a wireless receiver inside the guide rod. This wouldn't be too difficult if we're using hearing aid batteries. Wireless receivers can be tiny nowadays. Then you would need a wireless sender somewhere with a switch attached to it. This would also require a seperate battery pack to power it. The only place I could think of possibly putting this is in the grips, which would be difficult. You would have to fit 3 batteries, a wireless sender, and a switch in there somehow.

After all of this, the batteries would probably drain pretty quickly trying to power all of this equipment which would require constant changing.

[barnbwt]

but if I am lighting something up, I want it lit up big, not just barely

Obviously you've never been woken up by your mother throwing open the curtains, after you've violated curfew the night before...:D

For a *bedside* gun, which would be grabbed by someone *in bed*, a less glorius beam might be a bit more comfortable for a user who was just asleep. A good question, though: does adrenaline-by itself- cause pupils to contract? If so, yeah, a really bright light would be called for if you're all jazzed up.

while it wouldn't be my first choice to clear the house, it would totally be up to the task

That's all I think this little light could be. And that's more than good enough for it to be a successful product. Think about how many truly useless gadgets are sold at gunshows (case in point, the Glock bayonet). At least you can fit this one in a normal holster.

Oh, and I came up with a stupid-simple solution for the folks who'd want the light to come on automatically when drawn from a holster. Make the lens itself a button!

Allow the lens/LED to slide back a bit against the battery spring when pressed from the front, and make this position break the circuit. Now, all you need is a closed-end holster with a little stud that pushes the lens in when holstered! Remove from holster, lights on! I bet the light would fllcker momentarily during recoil, but that shouldn't be noticeable to the shooter compared to the boom/flash.

Ooh! That little stud in the holster/whatever could have contacts in it to charge the circuit when holstered. That way, a capacitor could be used in lieu of batteries, and those have very high voltage/current potential, just not for very long (think camera flash). You could get a bright light for the several minutes it would take to clear your house, in a very small package.

TCB

[Skribs]

Problem with that idea, TCB, is it would be on even in daytime.

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

10 lumens isn't enough, at least for me. Certainly it's not enough for me to buy a product like this. I have a weaponlight on my XD that throws out something like 75 lumens, and a Surefire by my bedstand that throws out around 100. I live in a small condo, but if I am lighting something up, I want it lit up big, not just barely.


To me, I prefer to have 130 lumens the minimum. I currently use a light with 160 lumens on my XD and that's backup to my Surefire 6PX Defender with 200 lumens. I don't want to just identify them, I want to disorient them as well.

You could get a bright light for the several minutes it would take to clear your house, in a very small package.

Size isn't a concern when it's clearing your house. I can see merit for carry but not for home defense.

[barnbwt]

Problem with that idea, TCB, is it would be on even in daytime.

Only when unholstered. I figured this would be most useful in a night application, and would be removed/ignored during the day for practice/defense, respectively. I personally think the capacitor idea has legs; they hold ton of power for their size, are very rechargeable, and would run long enough for any likely night encounters to run their course. We should all have a backup light source, anyway. How many times has the power gone out and my flashlight been dead...:o (not saying you should use a gun as a light source, this would be more of a "combat aid" for an imminent threat)

TCB

[Skribs]

I just looked up the lasermax guide rods, and they have custom take-down levers with the activation switch there. I think that would make the most sense for this product as well, if someone made it.

[Greg528iT]

I kind of like it. I understand most of the nay sayers, but in general it's pretty cool.

So.. like a MAG light, What if it was made to extend beyond the muzzle? You could twist to turn on just like the Mag. Just an idea.

[Mrcymstr]

I like the idea of extending it but not so much the twist on twist off for 2 reasons.
1) lights work both ways... it would always be on so any potential BG would see exactly where you were by following the light
2) it would almost inevitably mean you muzzle yourself in a high stress situation

[shootniron]

Drail

If you depend upon battery powered electronics to sight your gun then one day you will be extremely disappointed.

Lame argument against laser sights...

It might be time to join the rest of us in the 21st century. Batteries are depended on to run lifesaving medical devices, home smoke detectors and a miriad of other things that our lives depend on and a gun sight is no different.

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

So.. like a MAG light, What if it was made to extend beyond the muzzle? You could twist to turn on just like the Mag. Just an idea.

Then that defeats the purpose of the light.

[OregonJohnny]

LED's take about 4 volts to work.

Tell that to the thousands of very bright LED flashlights currently being made that run off of a single AA or AAA battery @ 1.5V.

The main limitations/challenges I see to this concept are:

1. Battery - the small coin-cell keychain lights are just about the only "flashlights" that run off of that type of battery. The other 99% of all handheld flashlights and weapon lights on the market these days run off of the much more common AAA, AA, CR123, C, D, or even 18650. A few lights out there run on the AAAA battery. The amount of voltage needed for a decently bright light (about 1.5-3.0 volts) cannot be pulled from a battery small enough to fit inside the most common recoil spring guide rods.

2. Reflector - the distance a flashlight's light source beam can/will travel is almost entirely decided by the size, depth, shape and texture of the reflector. A 120-lumen light with a very deep and smooth reflector will "throw" it's beam much further and tighter than a 500-lumen light with a shallow textured reflector. If you want to see a completely floody beam with almost no throw at all, take the head/reflector off a big Maglite to expose only the LED die or incandescent bulb. Sure, most common LED die modules (Cree's line) aren't much bigger than a pencil eraser, but in a good flashlight, they sit in a reflector that is usually at least 1.25" wide and about 2" deep.

If you're thinking of a floody, dim light source for nothing more than identifying objects 5 or 6 feet in front of you (like those cheap coin-cell keychain lights), you could probably build something like that into a guide rod, if you got the voltage right to use a stack of tiny button-cell batteries. But for a serious tactical light, you'd be MUCH better served with a dedicated weapon light mounted on the accessory rail with a temporary/constant rocker switch.

But, having said all that...if you ever do get serious about developing something, and you want some expert opinions/advice, you should join Candle Power Forums. The people there are extremely knowledgable and helpful, and it's a great community of support that has helped actually spawn some start-up flashlight companies.