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Warp May 26, 2012, 01:39 AM 1)
Lee Classic Turret kit from Kempf. $241.25 shipped
Contents:
Lee Classic Turret Press
Lee Deluxe 4-Die Set for .38/.357
Lee Auto Disk Powder Measure
Lee Safety Prime System (Large AND Small)
Lee Auto Disk Riser (Required for the Safety Prime System)
Six MTM 50 round Plastic Ammo Boxes
Add Pro Auto Disk Powder Measure upgrade
https://kempfgunshop.com//index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=630&category_id=190&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=41
2)
Dillon Eliminator. $81.94 shipped
http://www.dillonprecision.com/#/content/p/9/pid/25215/catid/7
3)
Lee case conditioning kit. $9.99
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/618939/lee-case-conditioning-kit
Speer reloading manual #14. $25.99
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/537267/speer-reloading-manual-14
Frankford Arsenol 6" electronic caliper. $22.49
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/604242/frankford-arsenal-electronic-caliper-6-stainless-steel
Lymon shooter's check weight set. $26.99
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/212586/lyman-shooters-weight-check-set
$97.79 shipped for the above four items (all from Midway)
Total: $420.98
Questions:
Am I missing/overlooking anything, no matter how small? I figure to add things like a bullet puller and brass tumbler, as well as dies for other calibers, later. Is it logical to save $ on the shooter's check weight set (max 60.5 grains), vs a more complete set for heavier weights, since I am probably not currently worried about the precise weight of anything other than the powder? (reloading, now, for practice using purchased bullets)
Is there a better way to get all of the above items (or as good/better, but same price range) for less by not having to split the shipping up across 3 different sites? Keep in mind I'll probably order some poweder from Midway so figure on ordering from them one way or the other. Also, I decided I am not interested in using the Lee powder scale that comes with Midway's kit.
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scythefwd May 26, 2012, 02:00 AM case trimmer. The kit looks like it's got the shell holder, but you'll need pilots. Really is a pain in the buttox to use.. it's what I'm using now.
Looks like you have the basics
I strongly recommend a funnel. A dentist pic (to check case webs). A good flashlight. Case lube.
To be honest, I'm not running any check weights with my scale. I do know that it's very close (I use a 150 gr. bullet to check, or a 165). I don't start near max loads, and I monitor for pressure on every new load...
All of the big name scales are equal for the most part. You can save money going with a lyman vs. the dillon... I like mine. It's not the same as the lyman 500 pro being sold today.
You can beat that price on the press by about 30 on ebay.. reloaderschoice... ordered dies from them before.. I'd trust em.
I'd suggest looking at used for most of the stuff you aren't getting in the kit. It'll save you a hunk of change.
Lost Sheep May 26, 2012, 02:06 AM 1)
Lee Classic Cast Turret kit from Kempf. $241.25 shipped
Contents:
Lee Classic Turret Press
Lee Deluxe 4-Die Set for .38/.357
Lee Auto Disk Powder Measure
Lee Safety Prime System (Large AND Small)
Lee Auto Disk Riser (Required for the Safety Prime System)
Six MTM 50 round Plastic Ammo Boxes
Add Pro Auto Disk Powder Measure upgrade
https://kempfgunshop.com//index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=630&category_id=190&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=41
2)
Dillon Eliminator. $81.94 shipped
http://www.dillonprecision.com/#/content/p/9/pid/25215/catid/7
3)
Lee case conditioning kit. $9.99
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/618939/lee-case-conditioning-kit
Speer reloading manual #14. $25.99
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/537267/speer-reloading-manual-14
Frankford Arsenol 6" electronic caliper. $22.49
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/604242/frankford-arsenal-electronic-caliper-6-stainless-steel
Lymon shooter's check weight set. $26.99
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/212586/lyman-shooters-weight-check-set
$97.79 shipped for the above four items (all from Midway)
Total: $420.98
Questions:
Am I missing/overlooking anything, no matter how small? I figure to add things like a bullet puller and brass tumbler, as well as dies for other calibers, later. Is it logical to save $ on the shooter's check weight set (max 60.5 grains), vs a more complete set for heavier weights, since I am probably not currently worried about the precise weight of anything other than the powder? (reloading, now, for practice using purchased bullets)
Is there a better way to get all of the above items (or as good/better, but same price range) for less by not having to split the shipping up across 3 different sites? Keep in mind I'll probably order some poweder from Midway so figure on ordering from them one way or the other. Also, I decided I am not interested in using the Lee powder scale that comes with Midway's kit.
I prefer the Lyman manual, but have a Speer manual myself, also, in addition to Sierra and Lee's "Modern Reloading".
I would contact Kermpf's and see if they can supply the other items with combined shipping and maybe save you some costs.
I would eschew the electronic calipers in favor of a mechanical one. Batteries need replacing and I don't trust them anyway. That may be prejudiced, but so be it.
In addition to the riser, the swivel adapter. It will make installation of the powder measure on the die a little easier, but the main advantage is that you can position the center of gravity of the measure over the center of rotation of the turret. It will make the operation of your turret press (if you use the auto-indexing) much smoother.
Talk directly to Sue Kempf about adding the extras you want. My testimonial.
Thanks for asking our advice.
Lost Sheep
p.s. Lee's Classic Cast is a single stage. Lee's Classic Turret is the Turret make of cast iron. Lee's Deluxe Turret is cast aluminum and not as good a press as the Classic Turret. Lee does not make a press named Classic Cast Turret.
Lee could really use some better naming conventions.
Rmeju May 26, 2012, 02:34 AM +1 on buying stuff used. Also, no knock on kempf's, but as another poster suggested, I have found them not to be the cheapest price. That said, I do hear the service is good, and they're good business people. I also haven't shopped there in awhile, so my info might be outdated, but certainly don't be afraid to shop around. Midway's ok. I like midsouth. I've also used Natchez, Brownells, and Grafs. There are others. Shopping pays... and who knows which one is gonna have the best memorial day sale right now for the items you want?
I have that exact dillon scale. I don't use anything else from dillon, but I LOVE that scale. It's expensive, but you won't be sorry. FYI, I bought mine used. Maybe you can find one...
I don't use check weights for it (although I have some from another scale that I bought, that I no longer use). Maybe I'm crazy, but I wouldn't say those check weights were a must have with that scale. Just zero it. (I just used a check weight on it for the first time in 4 years, just to verify I'm not giving you any bad advice. Dead nuts accurate).
+1 on a funnel. It's only a couple of bucks, and you're going want it for getting the powder back into the primed brass after you check the charge (yes, yes, the pan has that stupid little tea spout thing... but trust me on the funnel). This is literally one of the most frequently used "non-essential" items I have in my reloading bench, along with my calipers, and it literally cost me $2.
Also, if you're only loading .38/.357, maybe I'm missing something but I never lubed any of that brass when I was loading for those calibers. I guess you might eventually need to trim them since you don't really lose revolver brass... so maybe trimmers at some point. Maybe the wheelgun guys know better though, but trimmers wouldn't be on my first order for starting out only with straight walled pistol brass.
I'm a person that normally doesn't trust too many electronics in my gun room, but calipers are an exception, at least for me. I have both kinds. I prefer the electronic. I leave them on by accident overnight all the time. I've changed the battery once in 6 years last year. It certainly isn't going to be any less accurate than a dial caliper in that price range.
I have a feeling that you're going to need a bullet puller sooner than you think, but up to you. One of the mistakes I made sometimes was forgetting to put the powder back in a case before seating the bullet. That's a squib load, and probably the most dangerous mistake you can make. Bullet puller made it so that when I saw the powder in the scale pan, I didn't have to agonize over which round was the squib... I'd just pull a couple until I found it. With rifle cases, you can just weigh them, or shake them, but not pistol... they're too close in weight, even with the powder, to really tell. And this is just one reason to get it. I might just be a lot dumber than other reloaders though, or less patient, or more ADHD, etc. so your mileage may vary... but I bought mine for like $12. Use the money you save on check weights and buy a puller.
Good call on updating to the auto-disk pro. You probably won't realize what a nice upgrade it is unless/until you ever have the misfortune of setting up/adjusting the basic auto-disk on a turret/progressive, but trust me, you're doing yourself a favor.
ericuda May 26, 2012, 08:24 AM You might also look at fsreloading.com. Below is what got me started and is working well. When I was looking at purchasing my first press their prices seemed decent and service was good. I opted for the hand priming setup instead of the turret attachment system. I also added a rcbs 505 scale and dial caliper found locally.
SKU Product Item price Quantity Total
90064 Lee Classic Turret Press (BACKORDERED) $ 94.95 1 $ 94.95
90269 Lee 4 Hole Turret $ 7.98 1 $ 7.98
90963 Lee Deluxe Pistol 4 Die Set 9MM Luger $ 36.98 1 $ 36.98
90964 Lee Deluxe Pistol 4 Die Set .38 Special $ 36.98 1 $ 36.98
90230 Lee Auto Prime XR $ 15.89 1 $ 15.89
90198 Lee Set AP Shellholders $ 11.68 1 $ 11.68
90109 Lee Chamfer Tool $ 2.30 1 $ 2.30
90429 Lee Pro Auto Disk $ 32.48 1 $ 32.48
90792 Lee Adj Charge Bar $ 7.60 1 $ 7.60
TF3567 Lee Square Ratchet $ 0.50 4 $ 2.00
90190 Lee Powder Funnel $ 2.30 1 $ 2.30
90006 Lee Resizing Lube 1 Tube $ 1.98 1 $ 1.98
90101 Lee Primer Pocket Cleaner $ 1.50 1 $ 1.50
Subtotal: $ 254.62
Shipping cost: $ 25.41
Total: $ 280.03
Gryffydd May 26, 2012, 12:56 PM Another vote for mechanical calipers. However, I'd you're going to get electric, don't get the Frankford ones (which are basically Harbor Freight junk). In fact, I would avoid anything from them that used electricity. Every single electrical item of theirs I've had died in the first year (scale, calipers, tumbler). Their loading blocks are fine though :)
I can also say that by the end of your first session you'll probably want a bullet puller. At the least you'll have most likely started you "I'm going to pull these later bucket".
Warp May 26, 2012, 01:08 PM RE: Calipers. I posted this elsewhere and was given the same advice. I substituted in a Lyman dial caliper of similar cost.
I also removed the check weights. I think I kept getting check weights stuck in my head from reading too many threads about electronic scales, trying to convince myself that one would be a good option. It just wasn't happening, though.
I also added a funnel.
I ordered the Dillon Eliminator directly from Dillon last night. Nothing else has been purchased as of yet.
GT1 May 26, 2012, 04:08 PM Only get check weights if you care about fingers and blowing up pistols. It is up to you. They exist for a reason and I check every time I set up. I prefer trying to get it right before loading, I don't like using my bullet puller.
The 505(Dillon eliminator, same thing) is a great scale.
You can't beat fsreloading even if you choose ala carte, most likely. I would go through the process to see the final cost, anyway(I would shop around at all the places looking at the final cost page, myself, I don't mind saving $10.). They have never been beaten in my experience, though.
scythefwd May 26, 2012, 08:08 PM GTI.. people were loading with scales LONG before they had accurate check weight sets out there. Start low in the recipe loadings, watch for pressure, and slowly build up your charges...
I've never seen a scale that wasn't broken more than .1 gr off.. and you should be seeing pressure signs before you blow yourself up if you are doing load workup.
oneounceload May 26, 2012, 08:33 PM Second that, don't have check weights, but my RCBS balance beam scale has worked just fine for over 35 years. Too many folks it seems only care about maxing out the charge. Start low, work up for accuracy, stop when your loads make one ragged hole, even if it isn't a max load
OP- you WILL need that bullet puller - one thing no one mentions is a chronograph - IMO, more important than a tumbler, especially for pistol loads
Warp May 26, 2012, 08:52 PM I don't think I could even get a chronograph properly set up at my range. There just wouldn't be anywhere to put it other than a couple of feet, max, from the muzzle.
BYJO4 May 26, 2012, 09:21 PM I suggest you get a case cleaner. It helps protect the carbide sizing die along with giving you a better looking reload. A bullet puller is also necessary in my opinion.
gahunter12 May 26, 2012, 09:22 PM Warp. What part of Georgia are you from? If you live North of Atlanta we have a (Reloading Shop) in Braselton, Ga that has pretty good prices and gives a discount for cash purchases. He also has good prices on powder and primers. You will enjoy the Dillon scale. I have the same scale myself. I do use check weights. I check my scale before every loading session. I wish I had seen this before now. I think Brian Enos is a little cheaper on shipping of Dillon products. Either way your not going to find sales on Dillon stuff.
Warp May 26, 2012, 09:24 PM Warp. What part of Georgia are you from? If you live North of Atlanta we have a (Reloading Shop) in Braselton, Ga that has pretty good prices and gives a discount for cash purchases. He also has good prices on powder and primers. You will enjoy the Dillon scale. I have the same scale myself. I do use check weights. I check my scale before every loading session. I wish I had seen this before now. I think Brian Enos is a little cheaper on shipping of Dillon products. Either way your not going to find sales on Dillon stuff.
What/where? I might check it out sometime. I'm in Gwinnett
gahunter12 May 26, 2012, 10:39 PM You got a pm.
Lost Sheep May 26, 2012, 11:14 PM I also added a funnel.
Note: The Lee funnel costs $4 but the spout fits precisely into the Lee Powder-Through die (if you decide to load a few without the Auto-Disk powder measure).
Lost Sheep
Warp May 28, 2012, 01:22 AM I pulled the trigger today. This is expensive!
All prices include shipping unless otherwise noted.
Kempf
Lee Classic Turret Press
Lee Deluxe 4-Die Set for 38/357
Lee Pro Auto Disk Powder Measure
Lee Safety Prime System (Large AND Small)
Lee Auto Disk Riser (Required for the Safety Prime System)
$241.25
Dillon
Dillon Eliminator beam scale
$81.94
Powder Valley
4 lbs Alliant 2400, $58.50
4 lbs Alliant Unique, $57.00
4 lbs Winchester 231, $63.55
6,000 CCI500 small pistol primers, $156
Winchester basic reloading manual, free with order
Hazmat/Insurance, $29
Shipping...not yet determined
$364.06 + shipping
Midway
500 Remington Bullets .357/125gr SJHP, $61
Lee case conditioning kit, $10
Hornady Bullet Puller, impact, $25
Lee Powder Funnel, $4
Speer Reloading Manual #14, $26
Hodgdon annual reloading manual 2012, $6.49
Lyman check weight set (60grain), $27
Total: $190
Running grand total: $868.24 (from spreadsheet)
And that's with only 500 bullets and no purchased brass (can get by with what brass I've saved for now). I need to decide on some lead .38 caliber bullets.
Still going back and forth between Kempf and Precision Delta.
http://www.precisiondelta.com/detail.php?sku=B-158-SWC-ML
vs
https://kempfgunshop.com//index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=671&category_id=81&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=41
Lost Sheep May 28, 2012, 02:49 AM Expensive?
So, you have spent almost $900, of which $400 is permanently yours to use and re-use forever.
The other $500 is consumable components of which you have consumed $90.00 worth (guestimating that you used consumed an entire pound of Unique) making 10 boxes of ammunition that would have cost you $250-$300 retail?
You still have enough primers to load 5,500 more rounds and powder for 4,500 (3k with Unique and W-231 and 1.5K with the 2400, just quick estimates) But you need more bullets. Hint: Cast lead is cheaper and if hard enough does not foul with lead any worse than jacketed does with copper.
You are reloading for about 1/3 the cost of components as it is. Be happy.
Lost Sheep
Warp May 28, 2012, 02:52 AM Yes, I know. It's a somewhat significant up front cost but I'll make it back soon enough and come out ahead on the other side, whether that be money saved or more shooting with the money
The two bullets I linked...personal preference between them? Something else? I think I am happy with all of my decisions (well, at the moment) and I think they were pretty good...but I'm just not sure on the damn bullets, I'm getting pulled every which way there.
scythefwd May 28, 2012, 04:13 AM just looked at your calipers... get the harbor freight ones instead if you insist on that price point. The HF ones at least have the scale on them as well, so you can get a generic read without a battery in it (allowing you to check the readout).
Walkalong May 28, 2012, 10:36 AM The HF ones at least have the scale on them as well, so you can get a generic read without a battery in it
Yep, of the cheap ones, I like the HF calipers (http://www.harborfreight.com/6-inch-digital-caliper-47257.html).
If you like playing with numbers, sit down and figure out how much money you will save using the brass over, and over, and...
Even better yet, figure free range brass.
gahunter12 May 28, 2012, 11:27 AM Check out XTreme bullets for plated. They sell for $47/500ct, or $94/1000ct. This is for 158gr FP or SWC. I load SWC for my wife. For cast I would look at Missiouri Bullet Co, Master Cast, or Friedswood Bullets. I have used all with great results. Check out the reloading shop I told you about for once fired brass. He usually has pretty good prices on brass.
Warp May 28, 2012, 01:21 PM Calipers:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000YFT0A2/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00
scythefwd May 28, 2012, 02:35 PM Exactly walkalong.. I brought home in the neighborhood of 60-70 pieces of once fired remington brass for .308 on my last range trip alone. I didn't even have to pick it up.. I just asked if I could have it during the break before I ran out to place my target and the other shooters collected it as they shot, and deposited it on my range box when they left.
Walkalong May 28, 2012, 03:36 PM I brought home in the neighborhood of 60-70 pieces of once fired remington brass for .308 Like finding gold at the end of the rainbow, ain't it. Well, almost. :)
scythefwd May 29, 2012, 03:04 AM walkalong.. at brass prices these day.. gold would be a pretty good comparison :)
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