Dram equivalent question...

I am looking for a dram equivalent number for a load I am currently loading.

7/8 ounce #8 shot with 18 grs. of Clays. Approx. 1200 fps.

I can find references for everything but a 7/8 oz. load.

12 gauge?
You don't see a dram equivalent because that is too light a shot load to have patterned well with black powder and card/felt wads. They just didn't load them like that in those days.
If it were a 20 gauge it would be about a 2 1/4 DE, you could call it that if you just need to put an obsolete number on it. But since you have the load and velocity, I don't much see the point.

Yes its 12 gauge. Would you happen to know what it is? Id like to have it anyway.

I have tons of old data. I'll dig around and see what the DE is for that load. Be patient though, I'm talking a mountian of data.
GS

Thanks Gamestalker. I will patiently be waiting for your research.

Your velocity should be close to 1100 fps. Probably on the bottom of a 2 3/4 dr. eq..I believe FeatherLites are around 1000 fps or a little less.

DE means nothing nowadays, fps is a better number.

7/8 @ 1200 is a nice light target loads (good for doves too), but I prefer mine running about 1250.

The typical 1oz load @ 1200 fps is the standard 2-3/4 DE, whereas the 1-1/8oz load @ 1200 is the 3DE. Thus 7/8 @ 1200 should be 2-1/2

Since 17.3 seems to be the standard loading for 1oz to get 1200 fps, 18 grins and 7/8 is more likely pushing closer to 1250 or 1300 - have you used a chrono? That speed is per Hodgdon

Dram equivalent is a meaningless number these days. In the early smokeless days; (predated my youth 50+yrs ago), it was the velocity that black powder (measured in quantity by drams, not weight in grains as is smokeless powder.... a dram is roughly equivalent to ~40.0gr of BLACK powder....) And this was with PAPER HULLS, and PAPER or FELT wads.... None are in use anymore expcept for a few skeet shooters that still use Federal Paper hulls......

Like others stated, the velocity is a better determinant, and pattern the best determinant now. That is usually around 1,250fps for a 3/4-7/8oz load in the 12ga.
FWIW I load 3/4oz in my .410bore and 28ga loads for shooting dove/quail/grouse. for the 12ga, I usually go 1-1/8oz and RedDot powder...... About 3-1/4dr.eq.

My understanding about dram equivalent is that as shot shells were making the the transition from black powder to smokeless, the old codgers of the day could not understand some of the new fangled nomenclature of the smokeless rounds.

The ammunition manufacturers came up with the dram equivalent. For example, a 3 dram equivalent loaded with smokeless powder will shoot just like one loaded with 3 drams of smokeless powder. This the old guys could understand.

The shot shell experts can correct me if I am wrong.

As everyone has already said, the term is obsolete. Load for the velocity that you are looking for.

Over the years as I have reduced my skeet reloads from 1-1/8 oz. to 1 oz. to 7/8 oz., I have loaded them to the same nominal velocity. Then my leads are essentially the same. Who cares what the dram equivalent is.

Yeah, Goose is pretty close..
a dram of black powder is a VOLUME measurement, not weight.
Seeing black powder only has one burn rate, vs. the myriad of burn rates of smokeless..

several different powders & weights can produce the same velocity of 2 1/2 drams of charcoal..

a dram of black powder is a VOLUME measurement, not weight.

Actually not (for black powder purposes).

If you go by volume, a dram is pretty much exactly Lyman's 3.7cc dipper -- or 62+gr of FFg (at least my GoEx 2F). Obviously that won't fly when considering a "3 Dram" light duck load" :uhoh:

The Black Powder dram is 16 drams to an ounce (and then 16 oz to a lb -- don't ask). A little math will then tell you that a dram(BP) = 7000/(16*16) = 27.3 grains.

That's a bit more reasonable, and is the BP standard.





To make things confusing, the "Apothecary Dram" is double the BP dram -- 1/8 of an oz
and pretty much the 3.7cc volume weight of 2F mentioned at beginning --
i.e. "...a thimbleful of brandy please...."

Actually not (for black powder purposes).

If you go by volume, a dram is pretty much exactly Lyman's 3.7cc dipper -- or 62+gr of FFg (at least my GoEx 2F). Obviously that won't fly when considering a "3 Dram" light duck load" :uhoh:

The Black Powder dram is 16 drams to an ounce (and then 16 oz to a lb -- don't ask). A little math will then tell you that a dram(BP) = 7000/(16*16) = 27.3 grains.

That's a bit more reasonable, and is the BP standard.





To make things confusing, the "Apothecary Dram" is double the BP dram -- 1/8 of an oz
and pretty much the 3.7cc volume weight of 2F mentioned at beginning --
i.e. "...a thimbleful of brandy please...."
no wonder I'm cornfused..