[10thMtn]

I'm not an expert on knife-making, nor am I a collector. I know how to use knives, and like many of you who served, I took my fair share of hand-to-hand courses (before they started the "combative" program currently in use). My favorite knife is the Gerber Mark II. It just felt right and made me feel secure, so I kept it on me.

But...I'm a civilian now and the Mark II just isn't a good carry knife. I was introduced to the Browning Black Label knives at Ft. Drum. A Browning rep was giving demonstrations before they released them. I was impressed then and remember wanting one. After that day, though, because I couldn't buy one, I just forgot about them as time went by.

Now I see they're in production, but I don't know how they're doing in the military/tactical department. I bought the "Deterrent" because I like the way it looks, and it seems like a good carry knife.

My question for the experts is, how good is this knife? Is the line respected? Is it high quality? The Deterrent is made in the USA and is a little pricey. I like it, but I'd like to know what the gurus think about it.

[hso]

MSRP is kinda high for what you're getting and any manufacturer that won't tell you exactly what 440 stainless you're getting in their product shouldn't be dealt with.

There are better for the same price out there than what Browning is offering.

[10thMtn]

hso, thanks for your input. You'll see how little I know when I say this, so I hope you will explain. You mention 440 stainless. The paperwork that came with the Deterrent says that it's made with 154CM Stainless Steel with a sculpted front guard, rounded pommel, and G-10 laminate handle with recessed fasteners. It comes with a Blade-Tech molded sheath. Is 154CM some sort of 440 stainless? I paid right around $100 for the knife after discount, so I'm hoping I didn't get ripped with junk. I've never thought much of their hunting line -- always thought of it as a gimmic for gun buyers who wanted the brand. I'm hoping this Black Label is a bit different from the ordinary, especially since I know they were doing their best to hawk it to the DOD several years ago. I mean, I do like the weight and feel of the blade, but it's also got to be useful and a good value for me to feel "right" about it. I suppose you understand what I mean.

FYI -- I just found the paperwork that came in the box right after I read hso's post. Originally, I didn't think it had any pertinent information on it because the one side just talks about how to sharpen the blade. I missed the other side until just now.

[hso]

No, your 154CM knife isn't the 440 they're using in some of their other knives. 440 is a stainless that is used in blades and can be 440A or 440C. 440 C is fine. 440A isn't. The line has "440" as well as 154CM knives. 154CM is a fine blade steel when properly heat treated. The other 440 steel knives should be avoided.

When a company won't tell me which 440 they're using it puts me off.

[10thMtn]

Aha! That's why some of the knives were a third of the cost of others. I noticed a big difference between several knives in the store where I bought this one. The one I bought actually felt twice as heavy as the others but balanced and well-made. The "black" blades as I call them were much thinner and not as heavy and balanced. Those must have been the ones you were thinking about. The one I bought was also made in the U.S.A. whereas the other one was made in China I think. My experience is that, if they don't give specifics, then they're using the less-quality version. Has the DOD made a move on this line from what you've heard? Or is it now a consumer-only line?

[ugaarguy]

Has the DOD made a move on this line from what you've heard? Or is it now a consumer-only line?
I can't find a single Browning branded knife with a NSN. In contrast if you Google Benchmade NSN knives this is the 3rd result - http://www.benchmade.com/products/stock_numbers.aspx, and if you Google Spyderco NSN knives this is the first result - http://www.spyderco.com/opfocus/

Manufacturers who make an item with a NSN assigned are generally very up front about it, because they want that product ordered. If DOD had made a move on the Browning knives whichever ones were in inventory would have a NSN assigned. That's always subject to change, of course. However, with Browning not actually making anything of their own (unlike Spyderco, Benchmade, and others), I'm curious as to who is making the US made line of knives for Browning.

[10thMtn]

Thanks ugaarguy. I don't know if they ever did make a play for a DOD contract. I just assumed they would since they made a ballyhoo of it a few years back. Seeing this line just brought back a memory, and that's why I jumped on it. I like the knife I got, and I was hoping that it was being put to some good use. I never even thought they would sub out the manufacture of the US-made knives. That's interesting.

[ugaarguy]

10th who knows if Browning will go after a DOD contract. I'm sure they'll try to push the Black Line into the GSA system like they have a few of their other knives.

As far a subbing things out, Browning has been a brand - not a maker - for most of their history. For most of the 1900s their firearms were made by FN of Belgium, who, ironically, purchased Browning several years ago. Hence the famous "Belgian Browning" A5 shotguns, etc. In the early eighties most of their firearm manufacturing moved from FN's European facilities (Belgium and Portugal) to the Miroku company of Japan. The last of the Utah made Browning firearms I know of are the Buckmark pistols.

I really wouldn't worry about whether or not they have a DOD contract. Based on your screen name I'm sure you know how to evaluate knife quality. If the knife meets your standards, and you're happy with the price paid for the quality delivered that's what really matters. 154CM blade steel, and G10 handles tell you they're using quality materials. I don't think any of us buy a knife we don't like the looks of, but you went past that, and checked balance, grip feel, etc. Sounds good to me.

[10thMtn]

ugaarguy, hso...thanks for the lesson. I learned quite a bi that I didn't know about knives and Browning. I've never collected anything...never had the time. I guess I'm over-analyzing this, and I need to just rely on my own experience and gut to tell me what's good instead of worrying about public sentiment. I thought it was a good EDC knife when I handled it, and I'm sure it is. And since there's a personal story around it, it's a collectible for me. I appreciate both your thoughtful responses, and this thread is closed as far as I'm concerned.

[hso]

DoD doesn't contract a lot of knives anyway, but they're not going to work with a company that isn't a major manufacturer like Ontario or KaBar. NSN numbers are assigned to products that have approval for purchase as opposed to a major contract to supply. It is also unlikely that the Browning knives will get NSN numbers simply because there has to be a demand from a unit for them.

You're the best judge of whether a knife is "good" or not. If if has good ergonomics in the store and in use in the field, feels stable and well made, holds an edge well and the edge works well, and the knife holds up under use you've got a good knife. Let us know how this one does for you.

[whetrock]

I'm just glad to see Browning put their name on a piece of quality cutlery. I know that in recent years they have been notorious for placing their name on knives that were of pretty questionable quality and construction. However some years ago (long before my time) it seems that they had some first rate knives that beared their trademark. As others have stated 154 CM is a grand blade steel for a general use blade steel and should be good to go. Also I can't help but wonder who is manufactoring these for Browning.

[conw]

I like hawkbills. Even if it has the worst name ever (could be carried with a gun called The Brandisher: Warning Shot Edition :p). Check out the class Edged Weapons Overview with southnarc...that material works well with hawkbills. I would tell you to grab his DVDs but they focus on reverse edge methods. Your knife will work better using conventional grip.

I'd be happy to share some thoughts via pm.

If you get it and are using it for utility let us know how it holds up. I like the kabar tdi or other similar knives for just defensive use and then have a small folder for cutting things daily. If this is your plan unless the knife is a total piece of junk just make sure the sheath is safe, and the knife is sharp. That is a proven pattern so I'm confident it will "work" for sd.

Oh what attachment system are you considering using? I like spyderco g clips which are teklok compatible. And what orientation of carry?

Honestly I just realized you haven't bought it...I will share more thoughts via pm if you want but to me a semi custom for that price is a better choice. And for just a good defensive knife I'd get the tdi and a custom sheath.