IMR 4227 for 357 and Ruger 45 Colt


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7mmb
May 28, 2012, 03:00 PM
I recently bought a pound of 4227 to try as a replacement for N110. I emailed Hodgdon with a question but still haven't gotten a reply. I'm going to have to call them but in the mean time maybe someone here can answer my question and tell me what they know about this powder. Here is the email:

"I have been using N110 for years in 357 Magnum and Ruger-only 45 Colt but am about out of the last of an 8lb keg I purchased years ago. Since N110 is no longer sold except in 1lb canisters now and is hard to find and a lot more expensive I have decided to switch to one of your powders for full power 357 Magnum and hot 45 Colt. For mid-range loads I have already started using Universal and have worked up good loads. I just bought a pound of IMR 4227 and 158gr and 250gr XTPs to do some load work up. It is my understanding that the new IMR 4227 is actually your old H4227. The canister I just purchased is labeled made in Australia. I have used H4227 years ago and the color of the powder I just purchased is not the same as I remember. It is a dark gray. Can I use data for H4227, which you still publish and there is more of, or should I use data for IMR, which can vary considerably from data for H4227? I prefer extruded powders over ball powders and that is why I'm trying 4227 again. I know I will be giving up some velocity to H110/296 and Lil Gun but the velocity will be the same come winter. Thank you."

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Wil Terry
May 28, 2012, 03:25 PM
I AM not exactly sure what it is you are really looking for as a ton of data is on HODGDON'S site.
IMR4227 and H4227 have been interchangable for decades now. And I might add, I checked it in a pressure gun in several cartridges including those two you mentioned.
LET me note it burns like charcoal in the 45COLT but is the most accurate for higher pressure loads for 45COLT loads in my COLT SAA and NF sixguns. With the 454424 260GR SWC bullets in the 45COLT cartridge every gun I ever tested shot it like a dream including some including a couple that did not shoot for sour owl shiq with anything else.

buck460XVR
May 28, 2012, 05:38 PM
This is what I got back from Hodgdon when I asked them the same question.....

H4227 was discontinued about 3 years ago. It was/is not interchangeable with IMR4227. These two powders use different data.



Mike Daly

Customer Service Manager

Hodgdon Family of Fine Propellants

Hodgdon Smokeless Powder

IMR Powder Company

Winchester Smokeless Propellants

GOEX Blackpowder

7mmb
May 28, 2012, 08:09 PM
So if IMR 4227 and H4227 are not the same powder, use different data and H4227 has been discontinued why are they still publishing such a large amount of data for H4227 and almost none for IMR 4227? If they were going to drop one for the other why drop H4227? I checked their online data and in 357 and 45 Colt Ruger-only they have exactly ONE bullet using IMR 4227, the 140gr Hornady XTP. They have data for nearly every bullet weight in both cartridges with H4227. Seems like they should have dropped the IMR version and kept the Hodgdon. Or kept them both like they do with H110/296, HP38/231, H414/760 etc. They advertise IMR 4227 as "This is the Magnum Pistol Powder in the IMR lineup. If it says Magnum, IMR 4227 is the choice for true magnum velocities and performance." I guess if it says 357 Magnum it's the choice if you're only shooting one bullet weight...

mackg
May 29, 2012, 01:33 AM
Hodgdon was reportedly shocked by the sales of IMR 4227 when they bought the company. So they made the logical decisions to.....:

a) Discontinue the sales of H4227 and the production of IMR4227;
b) Sell the "H" production under the IMR logo;
c) Puzzle the hell out of us with the whole matter.

The best clue about what you've got in an IMR can is to look at the country of origin. If made in Australia, it's made by ADI, Hodgdon's big supplier.

It seems that this Australian production has also been darken in color to match the former IMR look.

627PCFan
May 29, 2012, 11:47 AM
The best clue about what you've got in an IMR can is to look at the country of origin. If made in Australia, it's made by ADI, Hodgdon's big supplier. This.

If your can was made in Canada its the older IMR, not the new rebranded IMR----H4227 formulation-

USSR
May 29, 2012, 12:05 PM
I checked their online data and in 357 and 45 Colt Ruger-only they have exactly ONE bullet using IMR 4227, the 140gr Hornady XTP.

I would suggest you get the Lyman 49th Edition reloading manual. I have used their 16gr of 4227 load (both IMR4227 and H4227) behind a 158gr Hornady XTP in .357 Magnum. I have also used 20 - 22gr of 4227 in .45 Colt with a cast 265gr HP bullet. Good powder for high end loads in both calibers, but does leave bits of unburned kernals around. Since it produces real good accuracy, I have no problem overlooking that.

Don

627PCFan
May 29, 2012, 12:12 PM
Im burning up whatís left of mine, 18 grains (max load according to Hodgdon) with 125gn XTP FP worth 1425fps consistently out a 5 inch barrel.

Hammerdown77
May 29, 2012, 01:12 PM
So far I've used (new) IMR4227 in 45 Colt and 44 magnum. I've had excellent accuracy in both. In 45, I use 20 grains under a 250-265 lead bullet. Yes, there are unburnt flakes of powder (sand looking stuff), but I don't really care if it's accurate. In the 44 magnum, a 240-250 lead bullet on top of 22 grains is really really good.

This powder seems to do best when slightly compressed. That 22 grain 44 mag load is slightly compressed. There's room to go up, but since it's so accurate at 22 grains, I haven't tried.

Have yet to try it in 357.

My biggest complaint with the powder is the smell. It is not at all pleasing to my nose. I'd much rather smell H110, or AA#9. So long as I'm shooting' with the wind at my back, I don't mind....

7mmb
May 30, 2012, 12:06 AM
Thanks for the replies. My can of IMR 4227 is marked made in Australia. That's why I thought it was the old H4227 until I saw it. The color is different than I remember the H4227 I tried years ago. It was the first powder I loaded in 45 Colt. I didn't get very good velocity with it in 45 or 357. Looking back at my reloading logs I was using very low charges, below starting in some cases. I'm not sure where I got that data because even the 2000 Hodgdon guide I still have shows higher charges than what I was using. I usually cross check and double check everything I load. I'm going to try this powder again with correct charges. The first 45 Colt loads I used weren't barn burners but they sure were accurate. Hopefully this time I'll get higher velocity and good accuracy.

Fatelvis
June 3, 2012, 04:51 PM
I know in my 2 different 357 Maximum pistols (12" custom Contender and DW 357 Supermag) IMR4227 turns in the best groups with 180 XTPs and heavy cast boolits. Just a side note, it burns relitavely clean. I would imagine it would be a great choice for the 357 mag also.

Big Lew in NC
June 3, 2012, 08:35 PM
I would recommend H110 for the 357 and 45 colt. If you analyze enough data you see that the top performing loads us H110. There are certainly others but If I have to give you one, then that's it. Have fun.

7mmb
June 4, 2012, 01:20 AM
H110 was the first powder I loaded in 357. I know it will give top velocity and good accuracy but I don't much care for the way it sticks to the sides of my Uniflow or all the caveats about under charging it, being hard to ignite, not performing well in cold weather and forcing cone and top strap erosion. Plus, after using N110 and other VV powders for so long I prefer extruded powders. That's why I'm giving 4227 another try. Not flaming on H110, I know a lot of people swear by it, for good reason, just not my cup of tea.

USSR
June 4, 2012, 09:46 AM
I also will not use W296/H110 as it's a very inflexible powder.

Don

Walkalong
June 4, 2012, 11:01 AM
I started with W296, tried AA #9, switched to AA #9 and never looked back, until I tired N-110.

I used to load 4227 in .44 Mag when I had a Winchester 94 in that caliber. It shot very well.

I have never tried it in .357. I suspect it will take a full case, and probably slightly compressed.

I did try 5744, and it is a hair too slow and too bulky to get close to top velocities, even slightly compressed.

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