Has anyone heard of this...and why would you want it, specially at that price?


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IMTHDUKE
May 28, 2012, 11:13 PM
http://www.amazon.com/12-Gauge-Special-Shotgun-Adapter/dp/B004BB1C5Q/ref=sr_1_23?ie=UTF8&qid=1338261021&sr=8-23

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Jeff F
May 28, 2012, 11:22 PM
That price is more likely 21.99 not 2199.00, probably a typo. Shipping was only 4.99.

Mrcymstr
May 28, 2012, 11:23 PM
(Before the OP gets attacked this is an insert for a 12ga shotgun allowing the use of .38spl ammunition) No I haven't heard of this and this seems very strange to say the least. I do think the price is wrong on there if you read under the description it says it is under 20$. That being said I don't get it other than just to say you could.

One note I'd like to point out. Read the reviews when the guy says he shot a .38spl rat shot out of it :rolleyes:

Positivity
May 28, 2012, 11:25 PM
I think I have heard of something similar to this with 12 gauge to .45 ACP, but not .38 Special. I seem to remember that this is used in countries where shotguns are much easier to obtain than handguns or rifles, so it actually would be more cost effective to purchase a $2000+ converter than a new gun. I could be wrong though and it may just be a typo.

firesky101
May 28, 2012, 11:51 PM
Product Features
Converts your 12 gauge shotgun to shoot 38 special
CNC machined for accuracy!
Machined from Alloy steel
FUN,FUN, FUN
ITs like having another gun for under $20.00

I believe the product features answer the question.

mnrivrat
May 29, 2012, 12:09 AM
Conversion cartridges have been around almost as long as cartridges themselves.

Texan Scott
May 29, 2012, 12:17 AM
I have seen these. Be careful with this; it's a not-so-clever gimmick to get around NICS and the BATFE regs on creating a handgun.

look at the length on these things. do they look like they're designed to run the length of a shotgun barrel? people buy these to put in the chamber of 12 ga FLARE GUNS, the sort of thing you can buy at walmart. it'll work- once, maybe... but owning one in the same vehicle/ residence as a flare gun gives you everything you need to ILLEGALLY MANUFACTURE a firearm, at least for BATFE prosecution puposes. they may also cause the plastic launcher to explode in your hand. either way, it isn't good for you or your family.

these things have no legitimate purpose. scheisters (and i use the word with all the ugliness my aunt nancy's rabbi can smear on the word) like these have NO PLACE among law abiding, responsible gun owners. the only reason their product is technically, minimally legal (maybe) is that they don't assemble anything they sell.

25cschaefer
May 29, 2012, 12:27 AM
but owning one in the same vehicle/ residence as a flare gun gives you everything you need to ILLEGALLY MANUFACTURE a firearm, at least for BATFE prosecution puposes.

Has the ATF ever procecuted anyone for merely owning a flare gun and an adapter? I have a 4 inch piece of pipe, an end cap, and a nail, are they going to come get me?

There is at least one perfectly legit. reason to have one; just because.

Texan Scott
May 29, 2012, 02:38 AM
I would not suggest the BATFE is always reasonable about these things... but unfortunately, what they decide usually has the power of law (or is treated as such) until a court makes them stop. Bear in mind, this is the agency that prosecuted a guy for a FELONY for having both a T/C pistol and rifle (single shots!) that could theoretically have been put together to create a SBR, despite having no proof he had done so.

THAT guy had to fight a FELONY CHARGE all the way to the US SUPREME COURT to be vindicated and keep his physical freedom and personal RKBA.

The BATFE seems very often to have a decidedly anti-2A agenda (in my personal opinion- you are free to disagree). If it were my freedom and my family's future at stake, i'm pretty sure I wouldn't trust the BATFE to accept my justification that I owned one 'just because'.

I think now of the first MiB movie, and Tommy Lee Jones' flat deadpan: "No ma'am, we at the FBI don't have a sense of humor that we're aware of."

I'm not saying they're always right (increasingly, i think they're left) but they're bigger than any one man they decide to pick on.

As dear old Gunny K used to tell me, "You a grown man. You can do anything you think your stripes can handle."

scythefwd
May 29, 2012, 03:12 AM
plenty of legal uses. I have a break action 20 ga. They make these adapters to allow me to shoot all types of calibers in my 20 ga. I can go shotgun hunting, and then drop one in (I've seen them as long as 16 inches and rifled) and go with a 357 for close range hunting with a handgun caliber. They allow me to know 1 trigger, have 1 mounting position, and shoot multiple calibers. Mostly fun for plinking though.

230RN
May 29, 2012, 04:50 AM
Maybe I missed it in the ad, but is that thing rifled?

ETA: Discovered in the reviews that it was not rifled. Never mind. Leaving this post up for immediate information purposes.

Don't see much use for it except with .38 shot loads for indoor close-range use such as in barns. It would avoid the doughnut patterns one gets with a rifled .38 barrel, I suppose.

Salmoneye
May 29, 2012, 06:44 AM
Nothing new about this...

http://www.gaugemate.com/purchase/gaugemate-cartridge

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3l4PBOQT1dg

303tom
May 29, 2012, 09:35 AM
I use them in my rifles & have had great success with them, never tried them in a shotgun, YET................But I believe that price is a misprint, I never gave more than $25.00 for one & it was a custom made one.

HGUNHNTR
May 29, 2012, 09:58 AM
these things have no legitimate purpose. scheisters (and i use the word with all the ugliness my aunt nancy's rabbi can smear on the word) like these have NO PLACE among law abiding, responsible gun owners. the only reason their product is technically, minimally legal (maybe) is that they don't assemble anything they sell.


WHy doesn't this have any place among law abiding gun owners? Its legal, and if I want one that's enough reason. I get to decide what is reasonable and what has a place for me as long as the product is legal.

btw, it isn't illegal to manufacture a gun for your own use. You can make as many as you please.

I'm not saying they're always right (increasingly, i think they're left) but they're bigger than any one man they decide to pick on.

I think the fact that they are a law ENFORCEMENT agency, and not a LEGISLATIVE agency has been lost on you. It is up to them to enforce laws that are on the books. In reference to the "intent to manufacture an sbr" that law is on the books and was not created by the batfe, but simply enforced. If you are upset about the laws don't waste your energy whining about them, ot the people tasked with enforcing them, but get active...help to create the change in the law you want to see.

Dr. Detroit
May 29, 2012, 10:21 AM
Since the .38 projectile is being shot from an unrifled barrel, will it not then severely tumble? Won't this make it very difficult or impossible to hit the point of aim?

Cheers,
Dr. Detroit

roadchoad
May 29, 2012, 10:52 AM
I think most 12ga flare pistols are chambered for 2" shells. Not sure how long this adapter is, but it might not even chamber in a flare pistol. Not sure what the worry is. I have a shotgun and a hacksaw in my house, think the ATF is gonna knock down my door? LOL

FIVETWOSEVEN
May 29, 2012, 11:05 AM
I have seen these. Be careful with this; it's a not-so-clever gimmick to get around NICS and the BATFE regs on creating a handgun.

look at the length on these things. do they look like they're designed to run the length of a shotgun barrel? people buy these to put in the chamber of 12 ga FLARE GUNS, the sort of thing you can buy at walmart. it'll work- once, maybe... but owning one in the same vehicle/ residence as a flare gun gives you everything you need to ILLEGALLY MANUFACTURE a firearm, at least for BATFE prosecution puposes. they may also cause the plastic launcher to explode in your hand. either way, it isn't good for you or your family.

If that insert is rifled, it isn't illegal on the federal level to insert into a flare gun. State law may be different but it isn't illegal to manufacture a rifle, shotgun, or handgun as long as it doesn't fall under NFA law. (you can although manufacture NFA weapons with the appropriate tax stamp) NICS Doesn't have anything to do with manufacturing handguns, it's used for backround checks at gunshops. Private sales are legal on the federal level as well.

303tom
May 29, 2012, 11:03 PM
http://www.mcace.com/shotguninserts.htm

Blind Dog Jake
May 30, 2012, 07:50 AM
The one that I have is called Econ-o- Shot.
It's a 20 gauge shotgun adapter that shoots .22 scatter shot cartridges.

Not sure how old it is, but it cost $3.95 back then. I have had it for 40+ years.

hso
May 30, 2012, 11:10 AM
Adapters to allow shotguns to shoot pistol or rifle ammunition have been around for decades. There's nothing wrong/illegal/sneaky about them.

Mrcymstr
May 30, 2012, 12:02 PM
The thing is the OP wasn't asking about the legality or any such nonsense. He was asking why one would want something and why someone would pay that much (due to a typo). I believe the consensus is you own it just because you can and there aren't many other good reasons. Great thing about the US is we CAN own something for no reason other than because I want it!

Apuuli
May 30, 2012, 12:24 PM
According the the reviews, some people like the ability to put a wounded animal out of its misery at close range without the overkill and damage of a shotgun blast.

Swing
May 30, 2012, 01:04 PM
Has the ATF ever procecuted anyone for merely owning a flare gun and an adapter? I have a 4 inch piece of pipe, an end cap, and a nail, are they going to come get me?

I don't know about a successful prosecution, but there is an ATF Ruling here (http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/2006/05/050406-openletter-nfa-flare-inserts.html) about combining a flare gun and an adapter.

FROGO207
May 30, 2012, 08:39 PM
Well now they have fixed it. But raised the price to $25.99 in the meantime.:(

Texan Scott
May 30, 2012, 09:14 PM
The distiction i'm trying to make is between this product and other sleeve inserts. This is not a rifled sleeve to fire pistol bullets from a shotgun. it's unrifled, and barrel-less.
Of course, if you're putting it in a legal smoothbore, you're not 'creating' anything. As far as I can see, that would be legal. But if used to fire a bullet from a non-firearm (flare gun), it 'creates' a firearm by addind a firing mechanism. Even if this isn't itself illegal where you are (or anywhere), because it is unrifled, it creates a smoothbore firearm of NFA SBR length.
Of course, putting it in a plastic flare launcher would most likely be UNSAFE as well as illegal; using it in a legal smothbore, i don't know what it might do to the barrel (a .38 tumbling down it). Might be no more harmful than steel shot, i duuno.

roadchoad
May 31, 2012, 09:50 AM
Texan Scott, it would not be a "smoothbore firearm of NFA SBR length." It would simply be an AOW. It does not meet the definition of handgun, rifle or shotgun per the NFA.
Handguns are partly defined as having a rifled bore, so it would not be considered a handgun. SBR is a short barreled rifle, which has no application here at all, as what the example you give has no rifling nor is it intended to be fired from the shoulder. SBS is a short barrelled shotgun, which is designed to be fired from the shoulder, again, having no application here at all.

We get what you are saying, but this is a legal item in and of itself.

Here is the straight word from ATF:

Flare Launcher Inserts


Classification
Any Other Weapons, only when possessed with a flare launcher
Distinctive Characteristics
Generally made of metal

Special Note
25 mm 12 GA adapter is lawful unless modified

Rate of Transfer Tax
$200.00 if installed in a flare launcher (making of AOW)

230RN
June 2, 2012, 08:15 AM
Blind Dog Jake, or anyone:

It's a 20 gauge shotgun adapter that shoots .22 scatter shot cartridges.

So I assume the .22 chamber (rimfire) is off center in the 12 ga chamber? Or do they have some kind of offset firing pin inside the adaptor?

Terry, 230RN

danez71
June 2, 2012, 09:48 AM
Blind Dog Jake, or anyone:



So I assume the .22 chamber (rimfire) is off center in the 12 ga chamber? Or do they have some kind of offset firing pin inside the adaptor?

Terry, 230RN

The round is off centered in the chamber.

drsfmd
June 2, 2012, 11:58 AM
There's at least one company making a BATFE approved adapter that is not an AOW:
http://www.kennesawcannon.com/subcaliberdevice.php

And the BATFE letter...
http://www.kennesawcannon.com/images1/batf.pdf

danez71
June 4, 2012, 12:30 AM
There's at least one company making a BATFE approved adapter that is not an AOW:
http://www.kennesawcannon.com/subcaliberdevice.php

And the BATFE letter...
http://www.kennesawcannon.com/images1/batf.pdf

Ok... now I want one for some reason.

For fairly cheap, well under $200 (not counting flares), you could have a single shot .22lr, 410ga, .45lc. buy boying both inserts.

Throw in another $75 and you can get flares for it too.

roadchoad
June 4, 2012, 12:56 PM
^^ Assuming the flare gun stays in one piece. I'd also assume that the .410 would be pretty ineffective, since the rifling would fling the shot outward.

danez71
June 4, 2012, 08:33 PM
^^ Assuming the flare gun stays in one piece. I'd also assume that the .410 would be pretty ineffective, since the rifling would fling the shot outward.


Thats true.

But the inserts take the brunt of the forces.... not the flare gun
itself.

I agree with the idea that it would be pretty inaccurate. The 2 You tube videos I say both said things like ' that went way left' in refernce to the 22lr insert.

I dont think Id even buy any 45lc rounds.

To me.... its a 20-25 ft distance gun. It would be good for just plain ol' novelty fun and when I'm walking the the swamps of the bayou (I live in AZ).

macadore
June 5, 2012, 11:28 PM
Nothing new about this...

http://www.gaugemate.com/purchase/gaugemate-cartridge

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3l4PBOQT1dg
The bullets appear to be keyholeling and unacceptably inaccurate. I can't see any practical use for these.

macadore
June 5, 2012, 11:36 PM
http://www.mcace.com/shotguninserts.htm
I have thought about using these to convert my double barrel 12 gauge into a 45-70 double rifle. I haven't done it because I can't see how the inserts will stay stable enough between shots to give any kind of accuracy. I also don't see any way to get them to shoot at the same point of aim. Do you or anyone else have experience doing this? How does it work? What kind of groups can you shoot?

Thanks.

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