Hatfield&McCoy History channel


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Franco2shoot
May 31, 2012, 10:35 AM
Anybody want to start an entry on IMFDB for the History Channels' 3 part series on the Hatfield & Mccoy's show?

There were shot guns, Long rifles, and Pistols that I could not identify.
Looked to me like everybody had some sort of Remington strapped on his side except for the character "Bad Frank" and he had a brace of Colt Peacemakers in a sholder holster.

The Remington's would have been from the 1880's and since the Main Hatfield character "Devil Anse - K Kostner" had a cartridge belt, one would assume that it was some sort of conversion. I watched carefully, but could see no loading gate, so I'm confused.

Could someone post a short list of the guns seen in the series?

Thanks


KKKKFL

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joecil
May 31, 2012, 11:01 AM
I assume the guns changed as the movie progress as the feud ran a span from 1863–1891. I kind of assumed the cartridge belt was for his rifle and not the early pistol he carried but really don't know.

I did enjoy the show however even with a few questions on the times some of the guns appear.

Carl N. Brown
May 31, 2012, 11:11 AM
I was surprised, or not, that IMFDB did not have a entry.

On one hand it is a high publicity miniseries, on the other it's only been three days.

That (creating an IMFDB entry) does take screen capture, positive ID, correlation with existing file images and entries on the guns, etc. It's more work than it appears, I guess.

This call to help an IMFDB entry I feel is different from the existing thread about the series and history itself at http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=655044&highlight=Hatfield

jcwit
May 31, 2012, 11:28 AM
Not sure that Remington conversions used a loading gate, more than likely just switched cylinders.

usmarine0352_2005
May 31, 2012, 11:29 AM
.


I'd assume guns would change since the feud spanned 3 decades. Plus, it's Hollywood, they will have mistakes.


I noticed Costner made some pretty accurate long range pistol shots in the beginning of the show. lol.


Plus, I'm sure it will take IMDB awhile before they can watch the film, get pictures of the guns, and get that page out.
.

usmarine0352_2005
May 31, 2012, 11:40 AM
.

I have only been able to see bits and pieces of it.



How do you rate it from 1-5 stars?
.

Owen Sparks
May 31, 2012, 11:49 AM
This is entertainment based on history. The guns used are whatever the props department could find that was appropriate for that time period. They only have to be authentic enough for public consumption. Experts in ANY subject can usually find plenty of errors in movies based on history. The clothing, saddles, lanterns, you name it, somebody knows more about these subjects than the props department and wardrobe people do and it is a real pain to watch a movie with them.

joecil
May 31, 2012, 12:28 PM
I think I notice the period correct clothing more than the guns. I do know that all pants of the 19th century where suspender type as men fashion stayed pretty much with that till early in the 20th century when the military added belt loops and belts to their uniforms. Till then only baseball uniforms had belts and loops. Shirts where usually pull over as well with 4 button fronts.

Ryanxia
May 31, 2012, 12:29 PM
You have to remember too though this was not a typical big screen film, it was shown on the History channel which generally makes sure the movies/shows are historically accurate.
And while I don't know (yet :) ) I would think Kevin Costner would try to get the firearms correct based off of whatever info/pictures he had. He did a pretty good job on Dances with Wolves.

But if you look at another thread on here there are some original pictures and they are hard to make out what EXACTLY the guns are. So being accurate to the period maybe as far as they can realistically take it.

ApacheCoTodd
May 31, 2012, 01:04 PM
I don't think I'll get into picking at the details given the post-civil war period of bizarre weapons use and modification and as noted the span of years covered in the movie but I would like to ask this:

In the third installment, when Cap tripped and fell in the big river battle - what fell off his rifle to be fairly significant to him yet he was still able to shoot long distance very effectively? Did a round jump out, a dust cover or a rear sight?

MrDig
May 31, 2012, 01:05 PM
And while I don't know (yet :) ) I would think Kevin Costner would try to get the firearms correct based off of whatever info/pictures he had. He did a pretty good job on Dances with Wolves.

I agree Costner is pretty adamant about avoiding anachronisms in his films and is detail oriented about them.
What I got to see of the series I thought it depicted the time frame well and would be surprised if there were glaring mistakes.
We should also remember that in that part of the country money was tight and if they had a firearm that worked they would be loathe to replace it just because something new fangled came along. I would imagine there were a number of muzzle loading weapons in use well into the early 20th century simply because they still worked and were good enough for Grandpa so they are good enough for me.

HOOfan_1
May 31, 2012, 01:06 PM
In the third installment, when Cap tripped and fell in the big river battle - what fell off his rifle to be fairly significant to him yet he was still able to shoot long distance very effectively? Did a round jump out, a dust cover or a rear sight?


I assumed he broke off his rear sight.

I didn't think he actually hit anything. I was laughing during the entire "Battle of Grapevine" I saw a lot of shooting, and a lot of shooting at point blank range and not a lot of hitting. Until the boy was shot at the end I figured there would be no casualties in the battle.


I was also wondering how the McCoys planned to hit anything with a scope they just slapped on their rifle without even bothering to shoot the gun with the scope first....not to worry, they never even got to shoot it.



The only guns I actually paid much attention to were Henry's and an 1873 trapdoor Springfield used during a shooting competition. I did have to wonder about the turkey gobbling and strutting in what appeared to be the middle of winter though.

ApacheCoTodd
May 31, 2012, 01:22 PM
My wife and I thought about the scope issue as well. We're thinkin' since neither of the fellas seemed to really know much about it that they probably thought you just slapped her on and commenced to shootin' "a hunert yards jess like it was a twenafayve."

I thought Cap got off at least 2 well placed and relatively distant shots after the mishap...

Franco2shoot
May 31, 2012, 01:55 PM
My conversion (Uberti) looks exactly like this:
http://www.icollector.com/Outstanding-Remington-New-Model-Navy-Conversion-Revolver_i10495361

You can clearly see the loading gate.

KKKKFL

Carl N. Brown
May 31, 2012, 02:04 PM
What I picked up from the Civil War centennial period (lots a lore passed around 1961-1965 true and false) is that the South made a lot of cap'n'ball revolvers with bronze or bell metal frames, and the North had the iron or steel framed cap'n'ball revolvers, so it would be historically correct to see a mix of the types of revolvers, and cap'n'ball revolvers used along side cartridge types in the 1870s and 1880s.

Folks who bought catridge guns after keep their cap'n'ball as a backup or side arm.

Certaindeaf
May 31, 2012, 02:09 PM
That "Bad Phillips" sure had a nice rig and toadsticker.

Big Boy
May 31, 2012, 02:40 PM
In the third installment, when Cap tripped and fell in the big river battle - what fell off his rifle to be fairly significant to him yet he was still able to shoot long distance very effectively? Did a round jump out, a dust cover or a rear sight?

They showed him using an adjustable peep sight throughout. After he tripped it was no longer there.

Big Boy
May 31, 2012, 02:44 PM
You know it just popped into my head, I remember when Devil Anse is about to go "fishing" with Jonsey and his wife is asking him about it making sure he doesn't intend to do him harm. Kevin Costner is seen pulling the harmmer pack slightly and rotating the cylinder of his pistol up close. You can clearly see the nipples on the cylinder, and they don't have any primer caps on them either.

dubya450
May 31, 2012, 02:45 PM
I think it was part 2 but possibly part 3 where one of the Hatfields mentioned 'their Winchester's'.

BCCL
May 31, 2012, 03:13 PM
When "Cap" dropped his rifle, the rear sight broke off, they show him pick it up and look at the broken piece. After that he missed several shots trying to aim without the rear sight.

Costner's Remington had a metallic conversion cylinder in it once the story line progressed into the 1870's early 1880's.

The cartridge belt across his chest was for his rifle, which looked like a Winchester 1886 to me.

The guns were pretty cool IMO, I love that era of U.S. History, partly because there was such a cool mix of guns from the cap-n-ball days to metallic cartridge (rim and center fire) and interesting conversions and mixes of both.

joecil
May 31, 2012, 03:18 PM
I think I read some where that the first conversion units didn't have a hammer type firing pin but replaced the nipples with firing pins. They also according to what I read is you filled the cylinder then put it into the gun.

mavracer
May 31, 2012, 03:43 PM
I know I'm nit pickin and I know why they don't give actors ammo, But I noticed Jim Vance's (Tom Berringer) henry has an unloaded magazine when they was surrounden the McCoy house.

joecil
May 31, 2012, 04:14 PM
I saw a recently made DVD of the Outlaw Josey Wales which had an interview with Clint Eastwood now about the movie. Eastwood pointed out that the pistol was a conversion version due to his fear of cap and ball pistols. He refused to use them in his movie due to the first time one was demonstrated to him on a set it cross fired from one cylinder to the other. As he also pointed out even though they never use loaded guns in the actual filming they do expect the actor to have some knowledge of it. He did point out that the time frame was only 3 years before they actually where available.

1911Tuner
May 31, 2012, 04:27 PM
I did have to wonder about the turkey gobbling and strutting in what appeared to be the middle of winter though.

May not have been mid-winter. As a native Appalachian hillbilly, I've seen snow on the ground as early as mid-September and in late April.

Fotno
May 31, 2012, 04:47 PM
May not have been mid-winter. As a native Appalachian hillbilly, I've seen snow on the ground as early as mid-September and in late April.
Ayup... Where my people are from (Madison County, NC) I've seen snow just about every month of the year except July and August.

1911Tuner
May 31, 2012, 05:18 PM
Bloody Madison! The old gentleman who lives across the road...actually more of a driveway...was born and raised in Madison County, up near Mars Hill. His family moved here right after WW2. He was a Navy Frogman. Hopped his way through the Marianas and the Solomans. The old salt's got some interesting stories to tell.

kimbernut
May 31, 2012, 05:32 PM
QUOTES-Originally Posted by 1911Tuner
May not have been mid-winter. As a native Appalachian hillbilly, I've seen snow on the ground as early as mid-September and in late April.
Originally posted by Fotno
Ayup... Where my people are from (Madison County, NC) I've seen snow just about every month of the year except July and August.
End Quotes

I've also had gobblers gobbling their heads off in late February in the Ga. Mtns.

Fotno
May 31, 2012, 05:51 PM
Bloody Madison! The old gentleman who lives across the road...actually more of a driveway...was born and raised in Madison County, up near Mars Hill. His family moved here right after WW2. He was a Navy Frogman. Hopped his way through the Marianas and the Solomans. The old salt's got some interesting stories to tell.
Bloody Madison indeed. My folks are from Mars Hill, born and raised on the Upper Laurel river. Considering your neighbor's service in the USN, there must've been something in the water up there, cause my dad and uncle were both in the Navy too.

It truly is a small world.

Saddlebag Preacher
June 1, 2012, 02:02 AM
In the first show, very beginning, Anderson Hatfield was helping a young rebel soldier hold a brass framed pistol under his chin, I guess to commit suicide, the frame was cut for cartridges (or blanks) and the cylinder was bored through, no nipples or caps.

Other than that, fellas, my Stepfather's family (I'm 54 now and he's passed) are from WV in Wayne and Mingo County. I can remember when I was about 7, I attended my Step Grandmother's funeral. Pretty much everyone there were carring a pocket pistol in their overalls or a shotgun close by. Weren't no feuds then as far as I know (1960's), nor were we Hatfields or McCoys, it's just the way they were. Not much different now than it was then seeing that a lot of us here on THR carry CCW.

doubleh
June 1, 2012, 10:50 AM
Well, I enjoyed the series. Perhaps it's because I'm a Costner fan but even Bill Paxton did a good job.

I learned long ago that there is a lot more fiction than fact in any movie or TV show and don't expect to not to see mistakes. Costner seems to do a pretty good job trying to be correct but I don't know just how much control he had in this project.

Ryanxia
June 1, 2012, 10:56 AM
All and all a good mini-series worth watching.

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