[Josh45]

Hello everyone, Had a question regarding .40 S&W
I know that the .40 is a snappy beast in nature to begin with.
Being that we can and do reload for it, I was hoping to make something with less recoil or less snappiness for this particular caliber.

I am using 180 Gr FP bullets. I am looking to get better hang of this gun and the caliber. I know I need to practice more to get efficent with it but wanted a lighter load to do this with.

I have the following powders on hand available to use.

BullsEye
W-231
Blue Dot
Pistol Power
TiteGroup
AutoComp
Universal
Unique
Herco

I mention all these powders I have on hand because I have noticed them mentioned in my manuals. I wanted to see what everyone else was using to make some light target loads to get better with this firearm.

I also have 155 Gr, 165 Gr and 200 Gr bullets to use.
I am also looking for a load for SD using HST 155 Gr HP in a Taurus PT-940, BBL '4. Any info with a decent good load with that is appreciated as well.

Thanks for taking time to read and share your knowledge with me about this.

[jim8115]

I use 4.5 Gr W231 with 170-180 grain cast or plated. Gives me 850-900 FPS from a XD40. Very easy to shoot.
For SD loads with 155 Grain XTP, i use 6.0 W231, gives me 1090 FPS
All are set at 1.120

JIM

[dsb1829]

I use 4.5g AA2 under my 180g bullets for IDPA for ~875fps (AA2 & W231 are very similar). It is a soft shooting load, but not so soft that I have to mess with recoil springs in my glock 22. Faster powders like Clays and Bullseye will likely need a softer spring to work in an otherwise stock pistol.

[mizer67]

Heavy bullets (180's or 200's) with a fast powder will give the least felt recoil for identical PF.

You want to use either BE, W231 or TG of the powders you listed. My pick would be TG.

A ~800 fps load with the 180's you're shooting should run the gun and provide low felt recoil.

Watch for setback and for double charges. You don't want either with a fast powder or it'll ruin your day.

[Josh45]

Thanks for the tips fellas. I appreciate it :D

[1KPerDay]

Search BDS's posts here about the use of Promo/Red Dot in .40

it has worked well for me. Disclaimers, etc.

[wingman]

I use AA5 with 180 gr bullets provides a push back recoil similar to 1911 45acp less snap then standard loads in 40,more accurate + better feel.:D

[eam3clm@att.net]

I also like Acc5 for 180 grain plated bullets. I use bullseye for my cast loads and it seems to have a little more snap to it. Unique has been good to me but it can be dirty if it is downloaded.

[bds]

Search BDS's posts here about the use of Promo/Red Dot in .40 ... it has worked well for me. Disclaimers, etc.
This is true but I need to add that there is no published load data for 40S&W and Promo (as indicated by Alliant (http://www.alliantpowder.com/products/powder/promo.aspx), I used Red Dot load data by weight) so use the following load data at your own risk.

If you are looking for least recoiling powder in 40S&W, it may depend on the charge range you are loading for. For full-power loads, slower powders like WSF/AutoComp will provide less snappy recoil than faster powders. For lighter target loads, faster burning powders can provide mild-to-moderate recoiling loads that are still accurate and cleaner burning.

My favorite low recoiling 40S&W is 180 gr bullet with W231/HP-38 around 3.8-4.2 gr range.

Interestingly, 3.8 to 4.1 gr of Promo also produced mild to moderate recoil loads that were accurate (3.5 gr reliably cycled the slides of G22/G27 but accuracy was all over the 8x11 copy paper target) - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=6509911#post6509911

[gamestalker]

I don't load light stuff, but I do load a lot of high performance self defense loads. For my SD loads I prefer using HS6 or Longshot and 155 gr. or 165 gr. JHP's.
GS

[Josh45]

Been wanting to pick up HS-6. Read it is great in heavy bullets in the .40.
Ended up getting AutoComp instead. As my brother was putting half of the money up for reloading supplies, We both decided on that.

Looks like W-231 and the AA powders is what everyone likes to use best for light target loads. Which is what I am looking for regarding 180. Thanks for the helpful hints and tips.

[beatledog7]

I shift from faster powders like Bullseye, Titegroup or 231 to HS-6 or AutoComp when I go from 165gr to 180gr bullets in .40 cal.

[GW Staar]

I know the .40 S&W pistols have a rep for snappy involuntary wrist action, and My Kahr lives up to that, but my new favorite piece is a Ruger SR40. I was flat amazed how that pistol tames the recoil of the .40, and I wondered how they did that, using the same factory 180gr flat nose ammo that I have felt the famous .40 wrist snap with the Kahr, and even a longer barreled Glock. (Winchester, Blazer, Independant....and even HP Gold Dot)

When telling others about it, they've told me that the Smith & Wesson M&P in .40 is similarly easy to shoot. I'm told the reason is the special spring design common to both pistols. Just thought you might want to know that other factors evidently affect the .40 S&W recoil.

I loaded up some of my own ammo (5.8gr. Unique under 180grn Hornady XTP's and the result was similar to the sweet shooting factory Winchester ammo I had to compare my loads to. It shot nearly identical elevation-wise to the factory load. I was very pleased with that load in the Ruger. I started with 5.5gr. and it shot low. 5.8 showed no pressure signs at all, so I'm betting I can go to 6grns. of Unique, but 5.8 shoots so well, why increase the recoil if you don't have too.

Unique is slower burning than Bullseye, and its felt recoil is way better because of it. You already have some Unique....try it.

[Waywatcher]

Just be careful, Titegroup in .40 has a reputation for KaBooms. Small charges of fast burning powder are a recipe for disaster, IMO.

I use Power Pistol and am very satisfied with its performance. Better than HS-6 in every measurable respect. It is not for light loads, though.

If I wanted reduced loads, I would try something like Unique, because it behaves better and is fluffy.

[GLOOB]

Light charge of a fast powder. Bullseye and W231 are your best bets. In my experience, a starting charge of W231 feels more or less exactly like shooting my regular 9mm loads.

[coalman]

Light charge with fast powder using heavy bullet will get it done.

[gahunter12]

From your list I would go with Tightgroup under a 180gr bullet. I have loaded with W231/HP38, and WST for 40s&w. I use to think W231 was soft til I tried WST. I load 3.9gr of WST under 180gr Berry's RSFP with a OAL:1.128". This has been a very good load for IDPA. I am going to start testing Tightgroup myself. Just be careful. It to double charge Tightgroup. I would not go above medium charges. Keep it low and you should be good.

[bds]

40S&W + Titegroup = "Rut Ro" :uhoh: :D

Seriously, Titegroup produces accurate loads but has narrower load range and can be spikey so be careful to verify accuracy of powder charges especially at near/max charges and check your neck tension/bullet set back (feed/chamber round from the magazine and measure before/after OAL). If you are off "a bit", your mid-range charge can be max+ charge in a hurry. If your load experiences bullet set back during feeding/chambering, max++ chamber pressure for a potential KaBoom. Regardless of scale type used, $27 check weights (http://www.midwayusa.com/product/212586/lyman-shooters-weight-check-set) are cheap insurance against KBs.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=7993973#post7993973

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=603597


If your mixed range brass has been reloaded multiple times and has weakened/thinned case wall/web, look out! Running these cases through Lee Bulge Buster or Redding GR-X dies won't restore the thinned case wall back to original thickness. ;)
Ever notice a sharp resizing mark on your case? The picture below shows what it could do to case wall - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=7992423#post7992423

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/gunnysmith/Misc%20gun%20stuff/10mmsmilied.jpghttp://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/gunnysmith/Misc%20gun%20stuff/40SWWEBTHINNING.jpg

[Josh45]

Thats one thing I do not like about TiteGroup.
It has at most a window of .5 Gr from start to max charges. Very narrow and not for the beginner. I know .40 is a caliber you must be careful with do to its pressure being raised easily.

I did make some rounds with it but at start charge and verified each charge. I only made 5 rounds with it. We will see how it fares.

[sellersm]

My favorite low recoiling 40S&W is 180 gr bullet with W231/HP-38 around 3.8-4.2 gr range.

^This. +1 It's my light .40 load.

[Arkansas Paul]

Light charge with fast powder using heavy bullet will get it done.


Yep. Go about 3.5 grains of Bullseye with a 175-180 grain bullet. I tried 3 but had some cycling issues in my Sig 2022 but 3.5 cycled great. Soft recoiling and accurate. When I get home from work, I'll PM you an article about light recoiling .40 loads. It helped me a lot when I was getting my wife shooting the .40. She didn't like the snappy recoil at first but she can shoot these just fine.

[J_McLeod]

I bought an XD40 last year despite the 40's reputation for snappiness. I've loaded 180's with HS-6 and HP-38 and been very impressed with both. I've exceeded some max data with the HS-6 and none of my loads have been snappy. Even the max+ with HS-6 felt like a stout 9mm.

[Josh45]

Could it be possible the firearm itself is in need of new springs? I don't think I should be getting this much "Snappy Recoil" out of this gun. I did use some light charges last time but even they were snappy at least. Those were loaded with Power Pistol with 180 Gr bullets.

The gun is a Taurus PT-940. I think I may need to get a factory recoil spring unless someone knows where I can get a spring kit for it?

[Otto]

Anything other than Titegroup

[wingman]

Could it be possible the firearm itself is in need of new springs? I don't think I should be getting this much "Snappy Recoil" out of this gun. I did use some light charges last time but even they were snappy at least. Those were loaded with Power Pistol with 180 Gr bullets.

The gun is a Taurus PT-940. I think I may need to get a factory recoil spring unless someone knows where I can get a spring kit for it?

IMO it's in the design of the gun, I went through a couple brands before finding two I felt comfortable with in 40,a Browning high power, second best is a CZ40B, both feel better in regards to recoil with the 40cal.
However as I posted before the AA5 powder seems for me to give necessary power while providing less snap.

[gahunter12]

Thats one thing I do not like about TiteGroup.
It has at most a window of .5 Gr from start to max charges. Very narrow and not for the beginner. I know .40 is a caliber you must be careful with do to its pressure being raised easily.

I did make some rounds with it but at start charge and verified each charge. I only made 5 rounds with it. We will see how it fares.


I agree. Not much room for era, but if you are looking at going the other way to reduce recoil, you should be ok. 99% of the Shooters I shoot with uses TG. I have really like WST, but it also has a narrow charge range. I'm loading .1g below Min to make Min power factor.

[birddog2]

My light 40 load is 6 gr Unique under a 135 gr Berry's plated. Around 1000 fps and recoil is nothing in my CZ 40B- sub 2" @ 25yrds. a little dirty though

[GW Staar]

Could it be possible the firearm itself is in need of new springs? I don't think I should be getting this much "Snappy Recoil" out of this gun. I did use some light charges last time but even they were snappy at least. Those were loaded with Power Pistol with 180 Gr bullets.

The gun is a Taurus PT-940. I think I may need to get a factory recoil spring unless someone knows where I can get a spring kit for it?

Wolff Springs lists a recoil spring for the PT-945 but not the 940??? I think I'd call them....maybe ones on the way.

While a worn out spring is possible, my Kahr CW40 is fairly new with a conventional spring. The .40 pops it pretty good. The recoil is controllable but less so than the CW45--same short barrel length.

Seriously try Unique. The recoil with a slower powder is not as sharp. I am amused by all the internet forum talk of how dirty Unique is. Never noticed until I got addicted to these forums.:rolleyes:

Having used up all my old Unique finally, I bought some new "improved" cleaner burning Unique....I suppose it's cleaner....you ought to clean your gun after you shoot it with ANY powder for that matter. What's the big deal.

Unique is such a versatile and forgivable power, I can't understand this generation bad mouthing it and replacing it with something like Titegroup that snaps your hand off....or worse with a little setback. Win 231 is more forgivable, but I don't like it for heavy bullets as well as Unique.

[mizer67]

I've loaded ~75,000 rounds of .40 S&W and 9mm with low charges of Titegroup. Not one issue with it, other than the excess heat it dumps into the gun.

If you screw up, you've got issues. Just use good loading practices.

[Arkansas Paul]

Check this out. It helped me a lot.


http://www.handgunsmag.com/2010/09/24/ammunition_40lite_091806/

[beatledog7]

Thanks, AP. Interesting article.

Made me go back through my log and see if I've ever tried any .40 that light. Nope. Every 155gr round I've built was backed by Bullseye, and the lightest was a 5.1gr charge.

Probably the lightest of all .40s I've built is 4.0gr Bullseye under a MBC 170gr SWC-HP. That's a very manageable load through my G22 Gen4 with Storm Lake barrel and the Glock factory replacement spring.

But with the data from the article, I might try some of those lighter loads.

[Certaindeaf]

I'd say Red Dot. It's good for the .45 and 9 so why wouldn't it be good for the .40?

[TonyT]

Recoil pereption is highly individualized. Some people prefer the snap of a lighter bullet with slow burning powders while others prefer heavier bullets with fast burning powders. I am from the heavy bullet fast powdeer camp.

[BBDartCA]

Broken record here, but AA#7 is the best for recoil in my opinion with 9mm and 40. I loaded side by side to same FPS with Power Pistol and #7 with 180g copper plated and the difference was very noticeable. But Power Pistol was much more accurate through the range of powder weights. This was in a steel IMI Jericho sub compact.

Titegroup as others have said, also freaks me out on the low case fill.

[Josh45]

Maybe I should pick up some of AA powder that has been mentioned.
I have never used any of it before and there is always a lot of positive comments regarding AA.

Maybe if I can get some range time, I can go out and check out some loads.

[CGT80]

my favorite 40 load is berrys 135 over 5.3 grains of 231 seated to 1.125" in my 4" xd. My brothers 5" xd required 5.7 grains of powder for the same load.

[Huskerguy]

I have tried HS-6, Red Dot and Titegroup.

HS-6 was OK but I found it hard to find the sweet spot, recoil was not like.

Red Dot was a close second. Acceptable recoil and accurate.

Hands down was Titegroup. Recoil was much less and it is accurate. I am not new to reloading but not an "expert" by any stretch. I did reload 40 for the first time a couple years ago. Yes it is true the tolerances between a max and start load are not big. However, the comments about kabooms is overrated from what I have read. The powder just works well in many calibers. I should try some others and I get on a kick and do but always come back to TG.

BTW, the recoil between my loads and factory is not even close.

[Josh45]

Well, Personally I can tell you from range testing that TiteGroup, W-231 and AutoComp are good powders in the .40. I have used 180 gr bullets and some with 155 Gr bullets and the recoil still wasn't bad at all.

[ArchAngelCD]

Maybe I should pick up some of AA powder that has been mentioned.
I have never used any of it before and there is always a lot of positive comments regarding AA.

Maybe if I can get some range time, I can go out and check out some loads.
While there's nothing wrong with AA powders I don't feel they will do what you want them to do. (light recoil) Of the powders you listed I have to agree W231/HP-38 will most likely fill your needs. It's a clean burning ball powder and works quite well in most handgun calibers. I have not used AA#2 but it's so close to W231 i see no reason to buy more powder. I have used AA#5 in several calibers including .38 Special +P ammo and it's a bit snappy.

IMO W231 will fill your bill and if you want more velocity give HS-6 a good hard look. I think Longshot is probably the best 40 S&W/10mm powder but it will produce snappy ammo too which is what you were looking to avoid according to your post.

[Josh45]

Thanks ArchAngel.
I appreciate the post. So far, Everything I have used W-231 in has been excellent.
That is going from 9mm, 40, 45, 38, and .357.

[JEB]

i used red dot in my light .40 loads. i used the start load and decreased a little at a time untill it quit working the slide, then bumped it up a bit. ended up at 3.3gr with an oal of 1.135" in order for it to run 100% in both my glock 22 and 27. this was with berrys 180gr fp.