What went wrong?


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robertham1
June 4, 2012, 01:28 AM
I got this ammo from a local gun shop about 6 years ago for very cheap and just got around to shooting it. This is out of a weatherby vanguard. I had my eye in the spotting scope while my brother pulled the trigger. It was about 2ft low at 275yds. I look over and smoke is come out of the floor plate an my brother is wiping residue from his shooting glasses. Make sure gun was not damaged and chalked it up to a single incident. We Stand back and decide to try one in his contender. Same result. Pack that box up and will be taking it to the police department for destruction in the morning. Anyone have any ideas other than a bad batch?165679165680165681165682

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MachIVshooter
June 4, 2012, 01:35 AM
It happened in two different guns, so the chances of a headspace issue are astronomically low. Are these commercial reloads? Was the brass exposed to ammonia? What do the primers look like?

It's either bad brass or overpressure loads.

splithoof
June 4, 2012, 01:40 AM
The pics are hard to see, but it looks like one has a pierced primer, and possibly a blown case in the web section. Were these factory reloads? It almost seems like a dose of pistol powder was used. Don't fire any more; can you pull one of the bullets and post a larger, sharper picture of the powder used?

robertham1
June 4, 2012, 01:41 AM
I believe them to be commercial reloads as the bullets have markings indicating they had been pulled. 165683165684165685165686

robertham1
June 4, 2012, 01:47 AM
165688165689

robertham1
June 4, 2012, 01:50 AM
165690as requested

robertham1
June 4, 2012, 01:51 AM
165691

Josh45
June 4, 2012, 02:13 AM
Get rid of them since that happened.
The powder looks a lot like AutoComp to me. I been using it for 2 days straight and it looks almost exactly like it. Im thinking over pressure rounds.

esheato
June 4, 2012, 02:34 AM
Attempting to identify powder by its appearance is a fools game. Count your blessings that neither your or your rifle were damaged and dispose of the ammo.

FWIW, I'm guessing bad brass.

Dr.Rob
June 4, 2012, 05:40 AM
Never thought of mil-spec as being written in brush script. Dump that stuff or pull the bullets and dump the powder and brass.

MrCleanOK
June 4, 2012, 07:21 AM
I wouldn't trust "mil spec" 62 gr SS109 that doesn't have a green bullet tip and come sealed in an ammo can. I don't know where that came from, but it obviously didn't meet the standard.

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2

W L Johnson
June 4, 2012, 12:32 PM
"Mil spec" would be 5.56x45, not 223 as the boxes are labeled. The boxes and ammo look like an rather poor attempt at counterfeiting. I wouldn't trust them at all.

SilentStalker
June 4, 2012, 01:35 PM
How can you tell they are reloads? I mean how can you tell they were pulled?

robertham1
June 4, 2012, 02:21 PM
You can see the markings on every bullet which I assume is from being mechanically pulled. Look back at some of the pics and you can see what I'm referring to.

ny32182
June 4, 2012, 02:53 PM
Kind of hard to tell due to the pic being slightly blurry, but, it appears from the primer pic that the crimp has been cut out. If that is true, this is, with 110% certainty, a box of reloads (could be commercial or bubba). Definitely not "milspec" except for possibly the bullet.

Going two for two on web failures, I would absolutely NOT fire even one more of those for any reason.

Walkalong
June 4, 2012, 03:38 PM
pull the bullets and dump the powder and brassAgreed. Do not be tempted to use the powder or brass.

oneounceload
June 4, 2012, 03:51 PM
A perfect real-life scenario for those who think they want to get into reloading for resale - luckily here, no one lost anything more than a few dollars - all limbs and eyes are intact.

Pull it all reuse the bullets and primers with new powder in new brass

NavyLCDR
June 4, 2012, 04:09 PM
A perfect real-life scenario for those who think they want to get into reloading for resale - luckily here, no one lost anything more than a few dollars - all limbs and eyes are intact.

Pull it all reuse the bullets and primers with new powder in new brass
Interesting....I've never heard of reusing primers...

Arkansas Paul
June 4, 2012, 05:03 PM
I agree with pulling the bullets and only using them. Throw everything else away just to be sure. I'd rather be out a couple boxes of ammo than to damage a gun, or worse yet, my eyes.

doc2rn
June 4, 2012, 05:11 PM
Mil spec" would be 5.56x45, not 223 as the boxes are labeled

This is dead on! Not to mention the SS109s tend to have colored tips like green and black. I would NOT use this ammo in any of my weapons, not even my WASR!

ny32182
June 4, 2012, 05:18 PM
I have Radway Green (British M855) surplus without green tips on the bullets. They might be SS109 bullets (ogive shape looks right to me) but probably reloaded with who knows what in the rest of the load. I've never seen M193 or M855 with a primer that bright/silver colored either.

Wildbillz
June 4, 2012, 06:39 PM
The picture in post #4 showing the bullet. It may just be the photo angle but that bullet looks wrong. Seated to low or somthing. It just don't look right to me.

WB

medalguy
June 4, 2012, 06:51 PM
Here's a tip: Lake City has never used silver colored primers. Always brass primers. Definitely reloads. And yes, the bullet doesn't look right. What is the measured OAL? Looks like it's seated too deep which could have caused pressure problems right there.

And there are definitely really bad marks on that bullet. I use a lot of pulled bullets, but if I had any that looked like that one, I'd toss them. Definitely looks like it's probably too damaged to use and very likely out of round. Throw the whole thing away and count yourself very lucky.

snakeman
June 4, 2012, 09:44 PM
Definitely don't use them

crossrhodes
June 4, 2012, 09:59 PM
Had HotShot ammo that did the same thing, bought 1000 rounds and have 990 collecting dust. Boxes had the same thing print on it "223 mil spec".

splithoof
June 5, 2012, 12:30 AM
Thank you for posting the better pictures. Looks to me like surplus flattened ball powder of some type, now only good for starting campfires or lawn fertilizer. I think enough has been said about what to do with the rest, but this rule is what I go by: "Never use reloaded ammunition not assembled by you, either commercial or home-brew, and always verify the source and quality of any factory new ammunition before using it in your own firearm. Use only that ammunition specifically designed for the particular firearm".

MachIVshooter
June 5, 2012, 01:54 AM
Powder looks like WC844 to me, which would be a correct powder for 5.56mm. But with what you've had happen, I wouldn't use any more of those rounds.

robertham1
June 5, 2012, 04:34 PM
Of course I would never use it again. Thanks for the concerns fellas

To be fair I did not realize they were reloads at the time of purchase (free actually)

I'll try to remember and get some OAL of them tonight.

SSN Vet
June 6, 2012, 02:50 PM
the local police are the last people I would bring into the equation....

pull the bullets, dump the powder in the garden and either give the components to a buddy who reloads, or reload them yourself with a modes charge of H335

awgrizzly
June 7, 2012, 01:01 AM
Those things are obviously total junk even if they hadn't ruptured the cases, likely intentionally created to cause damage. Lake City brass with commercial non-crimped primers and the ridiculous labeling on box of milspec .223s tells me it was intended to mislead but the perp was too stupid to do it right. I believe a crime has been committed here.

627PCFan
June 7, 2012, 09:11 AM
Look at the shoulder on picture #1, post 4. Someone didnt set their dies correctly and pushed it back to far. I see a rimple.

ny32182
June 7, 2012, 09:15 AM
All my LC brass has commercial non-crimped primers, but I don't think I commited a crime in loading them that way. :rolleyes:

If you want to cause damage, cause damage. Fill that puppy up with Titegroup.

Someone sold some bad reloads. Sure wasn't the first time, and won't be the last.

awgrizzly
June 7, 2012, 11:14 PM
All my LC brass has commercial non-crimped primers, but I don't think I commited a crime in loading them that way. :rolleyes:

If you want to cause damage, cause damage. Fill that puppy up with Titegroup.

Someone sold some bad reloads. Sure wasn't the first time, and won't be the last.
Yes, as you say it can be just a crummy reloading job. But where it turns from that to intentional misconduct is the obvious and stoopid attempt to represent these as military ammo. Not saying what the intention was, may have been harm or might have been to help sell them. Either way I'm pretty sure it's a crime.

I load LC 10s with silver small rifle primers... that's not a bad thing... the bad thing is my shooting. :o

Hypnogator
June 7, 2012, 11:25 PM
I'd try pulling some bullets and inspecting the brass. If it looks OK, try loading it with a mild load of your favorite powder, see if that works without brass damage. If so, your money isn't a total waste.:)

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