[Peetmoss]

Not anything great a cheap Sentry 14 gun safe. It will however make it more difficult to steal my firearms. However I have never felt that they were in danger of being stolen until I was wheelin the safe through the door of my apartment. Just as my father and I were bringing in the safe this kid walks out of the building stops and just stares at the box that is labeld as a gun safe. I so wanted to just look at the kid and tell him don't even think about it. This sucks now everyone under the sun will know I am armed :fire:

[Dan Shapiro]

Been there.

When you move get a big wardrobe box from Uhaul and at least hide the safe inside it until you get it inside. It won't fit too good, but it will hide what is inside.

Also, if anyone lives in a home...don't just put a big gun safe box out on garbage day :rolleyes: Yes, I've seen that.

[Peetmoss]

Good tip on not just causually throughing your gunsafe box in the trash. My cardbard went back in my old mans truck to be disposed of at work in our cardboard dumpster. And fortunitly were I work is full of people with guns. Matter of fact all my refrences for my handgun permit came from work and all have guns in there house. The person who is to take charge of my firearms (as per Onondaga County) is the husband of a coworker. Unforutunaly I work in a gun free zone. Some how I don't think that people follow that:D

[Guyon]

Congrats on the purchase. You'll have that sucker full soon (if you don't already), and you'll be looking at larger safes before you know it.

[Peetmoss]

Thanks. Don't even have it close to full yet. Only have a G19 a Mossie 500 and a 10/22. I however plan to fill that up and a safe upgrade ASAP;)

[Betty]

Don't feel bad - my safe moving experience was incredibly indiscreet. The safe retailer pulled up in our apt. complex in a big truck with the really loud BEEP BEEP reverse signal. The truck took up 3 parking spaces. The rusty mechanised ramp probably alerted the rest of the neighbors who ignored the signal. And then the safe people removed the box there on the sidewalk, revealing the big green and brass safe. :o

My little old lady neighbor stepped outside to try to get to her car, couldn't because it was blocked, and covered her mouth in horror when she saw the safe. :D

For hiding the safe, I kept the carboard box, cut the back and bottom out, and turned it inside out to hide the safe label. I now have a cardboard "sleeve" with "Xmas tree" scribbled in a big black marker. I topped it off with storage boxes and smelly tennis shoes.

[citizen]

Peetmoss-

It's a start; which puts you WAY ahead of those that haven't.....;)

[SteyrAUG]

Congrats. You are one of the few to buy BEFORE you got robbed. And don't forget other valuables like cameras, wifes jewelry, etc. Then if you ever get hit pretty much the worst of it will be them wrecking the place looking for stuff and getting pry marks all over the finish of your safe.

A Sentry may not be top of the line Browning or Fort Knox but it is enough to keep 95% of the people who break in frustrated. And if you ever do get hit by a pro the Browning and Fort Knox are just gonna take longer. Fortunately people with those skills and tools usually go after bigger game.

[Braz]

Congrats PM,

I bought one too when Kalifornia's new storage rules came into effect. I'm happy and didn't expect the added bonus of instant access. So much easier than digging through cases in a closet. My guns haver never been cleaner, heh. One problem. Safes want to be full. Mine keeps yelling FEED ME, every time I open her up. :)

[vulcan]

A safe is for keeping a thief honest, He'll have to WORK to get your goodies:p . remember to anchor it down & check the new combo 5 times with the door open before locking it up. Congrats on taking a step in keeping guns from crooks.

[ed dixon]

Sneak in a bigger safe to contain the one you just got. If spotted... one even bigger. The Russian doll idea should frighten those with bad intentions. Armed dwarf inside another option. :D

[Dave P]

Armed dwarf with a mini-gun? :p

[Kahr carrier]

Good Move watch out they fill up fast.:)

[4v50 Gary]

Braz - Mine keeps yelling feed me, everytime I open her up.

You offer a new perspective that is very provocative. The proposition that safes are themselves living entities requiring nourishment is novel and challenges the commonly held belief that guns are self propagating. Indeed, it may evoke as much argument as the chicken and the egg controversy. While I'm unconvinced and would like to see more scholarly or scientific research on this matter, I think it is worthy of a grant.

[trvlr905]

Sounds like I'm making the right move in purchasing a safe. My Dad bought one after he had his house broken into and some guns (including some of mine) stolen. Right now most of my guns are crowding his safe. Unfortunately for me, its down in GA. Going to be buying a safe with my income tax return. Anyone know anything about Browning's Bridger Plus safes?

[Watch-Six]

I moved two years ago. I had to recruit half of the neighborhood to get my safe down the staircase in my old abode. I heard that they were still talking about it at the neighborhood Christmas party a year later. Oh well. I'm gone and I now have TWO safes. Ha ha. Wait until next time I move. Watch-Six

[Peetmoss]

I plan on feeding mine very shortly again. First safe meal will probably be a Savage Striker. Then an AR and a G22 :D

[Peetmoss]

They look pretty nice better then mine. Just to let you know Midway says they don't meat UL tool standards.

[trvlr905]

What are the UL standards? Does that mean it's no safer than something like a Homak or Stack-on?

[4v50 Gary]

UL - uses common tools and test is to see how long before their staff can break into a safe. UL-15 (correct me if the code is different) means that the safe will take about 15 minutes for a burglar to force it open.

Lesson: Don't leave your tools laying around. Why make it easy for them?

[John Galt]

For those who own a home, buy homeowners insurance rather than fire insurance. It only costs a couple bucks more.

Lay all your guns out and write their serial#'s on white cards, placed next to each gun. Take a picture and store off site.

Sure, we don't want our guns stolen, but insurance sure helps!

[vulcan]

The UL rating is TL(tool resistant) , TR(torch resistant),TX(explosives resistant) & the time needed to open the door or making a 6" square hole thru the door. The sides,top & bottom is not rated.Safes with a X6 suffix will be rated on all sides. Common tools include handtools,pickaxes,grinders & drills. The attack is done by a team & only the actually time tools are used on the safe is clocked, Breaks & tool setup time doesn't count.

For instance,

A TRTL-30X6 is torch & tool resistant safe for 30mins before penetration & rating is for all 6 sides.

UL rated safes will have a metal label afixed to them.

I call the TRTL safes TuRTLes:D

[*8*]

I'm glad you took the time and effort in securing your guns by purchasing a decent gun safe. It should provide a decent amount of protection. Take note though, it will not stop someone with a thermic lance and a few minutes from cutting right thru any UL rated safe. An alarm system should be considered as well, if you have some irreplaceable firearms.

[4v50 Gary]

Thank you Vulcan. Little wonder why you selected the handle you did.

[Stinger]

When I got mine, I made the mistake of telling the wife I would stop buying guns when it was full :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

I shoulda gotten a bigger safe:scrutiny:

Stinger

[kalibear45]

Better safe than sorry :D

[Bosco Baracus]

it will not stop someone with a thermic lance and a few minutes from cutting right thru any UL rated safe
If I have guys going for my stuff with thermic lances, I hope they can read. The No Smoking and Danger signs are there for a reason. :)

Bosco

[12.7x99mm]

Piority number one. all ways ...all ways buy a big safe. bigger than what you think you will need.

[trvlr905]

Woohoo! I just bought myself a safe. Well, actually, I bought it two weeks ago, but the weather wouldn't cooperate until today. That and my buddy wasn't available to help out. No, it's not the biggest out there, but it sure was worth it, especially after learning from my Dad's experience with a break in. Bought it down at Green Top in Richmond, VA. Man, I think they're top notch. They even had me drooling over a Kimber while I was waiting for my buddy. Without further ado,

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid55/pee56bc059dc75adda613877fe4586684/fc80159c.jpg.thumb.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid55/pd6a4125781b94a76daa74e9efad7d328/fc80159b.jpg.thumb.jpg

My new Browning Bridger Plus!! My goodness that thing was no fun to monkey up the steps. Yeah, now to fill it up. :D

[CB900F]

Fella's
Most of the 'safes' you will find for sale are not, strictly speaking, safes. They are residential secuity containers. The UL residential security container rating is to withstand 5 minutes of attack with hammer and screwdriver. Vulcan is correct in that it is the door that is rated. Unfortunatley, the other 5 sides are, depending on the brand of container, 10 to 16 guage sheet metal. Ten guage is .140" & it gets thinner as the number gets higher. In other words, they are not terribly secure.

By the way, someone mentioned Browning & Fort Knox as being 'top of the line' No, not only no, but hell no. If you want to see a true safe, as in home gun safe, go find a dealer who carries AMSEC. They make price competetive cheeseboxes also, but it is possible to get a safe from them. However, you will pay for it.

There are several smaller custom or regional safe makers who will provide you with a quality product, I don't know them all. What you are looking for though is at least B burglary rating. C is higher, then TL-15, then TL30. TL30 is overkill at 1.5" of steel throughout the safe.

Fire rating in most HSC's is 1200f for 30 min. In the test furnace, when the gas is lit, the timer starts. At 30 min to the sec, the internal transponder is read. Typically the reading will be in the 340 range & rapidly rising. Over 350 is fail point. The gas is shut off, the furnace door opened & a red-hot safe comes out on the trolley. Please do not take my word on the following, check with your fire dept. Most fully involved structure fires will hit between 1600 and 2000 degrees f at some place in the fire at some point in the fire cycle. UL fire rating is 1750 f, for 1 full hour at that temp. In other words, the temp is brought up to 1750, then the timer starts. People, this is a very BIG difference in protection levels.

HSC's will typically use gypsum wall board as the fire insulating medium. If the paper is not on, it will perhaps be called fire rock.
Sheet rock is a good flame barrier, but it simply does not have the mass to be a good heat sink. 1750 safes are usually lined with concrete. In a given size 60" X 28" X 24" a typical weight for an HSC is around 700 lbs in a fire configuration. A 'B' rated fire safe will run around 1200 to 1300 lbs in that size.

Liberty safes advertise having a composite door and they meet the Omega standard. Composite door means sheet metal wrap over a sheet rock core. Omega means they stuck 4 layers of sheet rock in the thing to take up room better spent holding guns.
But, the rating is for about 1550 for 40 min. In any case, a burglar with a 30" tire spoon is going through the door in short order.

Yes, I sell safes. This literally is my business. No I won't sell on somebody else's web site. 900F

[Mcmillan]

I was thinking of getting a cadet on this site, and the high end model. http://www.pentagonsafes.com/ is the site. Any opinions?

[S_O_Laban]

cb900f, thanks for the info. A friend of mine once mentioned that in a traditional house/basement that during a fire the basement was the coolest place in most fires? Maybe someone with real experience could comment further on safe placement?

[JohnBT]

I split the difference between what I have now and what I wanted (a burglary-rated safe) and ordered a big Liberty from a local dealer. It will be delivered this week.

I helped move a big safe once when I younger, and stupider, and paying $150 for them to bring the new one and install it is easier than borrowing a truck, renting a big appliance dolly and getting 3 or 4 of my friends to show up at the same time. Taking it down the stairs would have been easy though - gravity does all the work, right? :)
___________

Fun things to look at...

- Check out the chart at the bottom of the page for the TL-15 and TL-30 burglary rated safes.

www.brownsafe.com/burglary_safes.html

I would have ordered the 30-cubic-footer if I was made of money. Definitely would have had to go in the basement - 3210 pounds with a 1.5-inch door and 1-inch walls.

E6034 62 x 36 x 32.5 30.7 3210 $5,402.00

- Also check out alt.locksmithing for more than you ever wanted to know. Type in 'gun safe' in the search box and check 'Search Only within alt.lock'.

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&group=alt.locksmithing

Fun reading while watching basketball and listening to the rain.

And a word of warning - don't get discouraged by locksmiths talking about all gun safes being junk. They can open ALL kinds of safes, but it just takes them a little longer.

John

P.S. - trvlr905 - Green Top, my home away from home. They will sure take your money, all your money. Too many temptations in one place. Having it close by is a good and bad thing. Think I'll go there now. The range doesn't open until 1:00.

[trvlr905]

I hear you, John. In fact, I'm probably going to be calling Joe tomorrow and see about ordering either a Imbel receiver for my FAL or a Benelli Nova SP with ghost rings. I think I'll hold off on the Kimber until this summer. Then I'll consider it my transfer gift. (hee hee!) Well, I guess I'll head to the range myself and get some time behind the trigger.

[bad_dad_brad]

I don't have that much invested in firearms, so a good safe for me, would cost just a little less than my collection. No kids around either. Thefts, fires, that is what insurance is for. Record what you have offsite and keep your original sales slip offsite as well. What little I have (compared to some of you folks anyway) is replaceable. Home defense guns stored in a safe are an oxymoron anyway.

For me, the best defense against having my firearms stolen is stealth and hide in plain sight. Make the house always look occupied. Keep firearms in secret places (I have a big old house). Don't let strangers know you have firearms.

If I had rare collectables, kids at home, or a really expensive collection, then I would probably get a very good fireproof safe.

[CB900F]

A basement placement isn't a bad idea at all. But, (there's always a but, isn't there?) be aware of some factors you may not have thought of. Check the response time of your fire dept. Just go ask them, they are generally honest & not ego stroking. What can happen, usually in a rural setting, is if the house collapses into the basement, you are going to need a very good safe as far as thermal attack protection goes. Then there's the water. The doors are not waterproof. That's a VERY expensive rarity. Make sure your basement drains can handle a lot of water. Put the safe up on non-flammable blocks. If you run the cord for a 'golden rod' into the safe, duct tape the bottom & then go inside the safe & fill the hole with plaster of paris. Don't leave a hole for free entry of heat & flame.

If you are having a problem with the dial. Leave the door open & call a locksmith, sooner rather than later. Honestly, it's not a bad idea to have the lockworks serviced every coupla years. Particulary in hot humid climates.

Insurance companies usually want a minimum bare weight of 750 lbs before they will give much of a break on your premiums. And don't really expect much of a break until & unless you can show the safe meets the full UL 1750 for one hour test. Look at it this way. If the safe survives the fire, but when you open it the stock wood is charred & the aluminum scope tubes are warped, what did you save? A lot of people are spending good money on what they think is protection. Please - do your research first. I don't want you to believe me. It's better if you think I'm lying & try to prove me wrong by doing your own research. You will (I hope) be far more likely to believe what you yourself find out. Try the Underwriters Labratory website first. 900F

[Mike Irwin]

Wrap the box in a couple of moving blankets. Then it looks like furniture.

[JohnBT]

CB900F - The local fire department is 6 blocks away. They come on the run around here because these old houses have lots of dry wood in them. If my house collapses into the basement there's going to be, oh, 5 or 10 tons of plaster and brick sitting on my safe. Splat. The house was built in 1916 and the solid brick walls are 14 inches thick with 2 or 3 inches of plaster laid directly on the brick. If there isn't a complete collapse, maybe the heat-activated expanding door seal will keep the water out.

In any case, I'm more concerned with the smash and grab crackhead types. I'm in a relatively good neighborhood, but it is in the city. If they can carry more than a half-ton of safe up the basement steps they can have it.

John

P.S. - trvlr905 - Whew, went to GT and didn't buy a thing.

[CB900F]

JohnBT;
Against the crackhead types a residential or home security container is good protection. For fire, NOT. Just get a solid door type, not a composit door. I've got an example in the shop of a composit door that a 15 year old kid went through in under 15 minutes. He got around 5 grand outta the safe. Then the owner came to the shop & bought a good one. 900F

[sm]

Discreet:
Well a buddy covered his with an old cardboard box that furniture came in from work, neighbors figured contents matched box. Another fellow got caught and just lied, said he was holding in hiding for his boss, he and his friends hum, hawed, grunted carrying out the empty box, tied into truck and went to a dumster to dispose of box.

Another friend got one of those old floor safes, Jiminey them things heavy. The Mrs found a large wicker dealie like a big square foot locker. Hard part was NOT grunting, sweating, and busting a gut carrying in "a light but bundlesome wicker pc". It took two "wimps" and hand truck for wicker furniture, I swear :)

Photos good, video also, only problem with inventory on 'puter alone, not accceptable by some, too easy to edit and add inventory. Ins buddy suggests off site storage, photo, video, hard copies of serial #'s. Another good idea is to do a walk through and video , if a tragedy occurs, difficult to recall what all one had. Pics with details. During a tragedy the mind can and will forget stuff.

[Moparmike]

What does one suggest for a college student on a budget? I only have $300 worth of guns (about to double with a pistol gift), so I dont need a safe that weighs more than a school bus, or a 10x20 concrete encased room with a 4" thick vault door hidden behind a false wall.

Any suggestions?

[Norton]

Moparmike,

If you are just looking for a safe for handguns, go over to your local locksmith shop that sells safes. If they are like the ones around here, they have a ton (pardon the pun) of used safes at very reasonable prices.

The guy at the shop here said that most of the used safes that they have were gotten for free because a new homeowner, for instance, wants the thing out of the house. The locksmith won't pay anything for them because by the time he gets his truck there, gets 2, 3 or 4 guys to haul it out and gets it back to the shop.....it's not cost effective to pay for it.

I saw several safes that were anywhere from B rated to TL15 for good prices. Condition may vary.....but a little elbow grease would probably do the trick.

[RustyHammer]

One may want to consider using a "moving tarp" to cover things like that (and/or TVs, computer equipment, etc.) when moving in and out of house. Just use a cord to secure it around the item.

Keeps nosy neighbors from seeing all your "toys".

As stated above, take precautions when disposing boxes too.

/Rusty

[Andrew Rothman]

I don't have that much invested in firearms, so a good safe for me, would cost just a little less than my collection. No kids around either. Thefts, fires, that is what insurance is for.

I disagree. There is a moral obligation to make it difficult for a confirmed criminal to get access to a firearm.