Interesting comment at the local gun store today


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CDR_Glock
June 6, 2012, 12:33 AM
A young lady was saying she was interested in getting a gun, and I gave her my take. I told her get a revolver. It's reliable, requires little maintenance and is small enough for a purse. The shop owner said to be careful since the advice I give, as a customer, could be a liability for him as a shop owner. I was shocked, since I never heard that before.

Is that true? The advice was nothing like "Get a shotgun, you don't need to aim" or "Get a 45 ACP, you'll vaporize the assailant".

(scratching head)...

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RaceM
June 6, 2012, 01:05 AM
Everybody's busy playing CYA in our lawsuit crazy country these days. Nothin' wrong with your advice.

fehhkk
June 6, 2012, 01:15 AM
Obviously the gun shop owner wanted to sell her a $1200 1911 and not a $300 revolver

MistWolf
June 6, 2012, 03:50 AM
Just a way of saying "Shaddap, kid!"

MedWheeler
June 6, 2012, 06:20 AM
Any advice he gives is more likely to be a potential liability for him than any you give. Suppose she had called a friend from outside in the parking lot for a recommendation before walking inside, or otherwise had her mind made up, and the shop owner had talked her into something else. Had she then had a mishap with the "something else", she could then argue along the lines of "Well, what I went in there for was xxx, but he told me this was safer!"

bannockburn
June 6, 2012, 06:31 AM
Sounds like a lot of baloney on the part of the owner. More like "I'm the expert here so keep your advice to yourself." Could also be an attempt on the part of the owner to upsell her to something else, while making it sound like he's looking out for her best interests with some made-up legal gibberish.

bikerdoc
June 6, 2012, 06:38 AM
Since I retired I work P/T in a gun store. I woud have said same as you.

The bozo talking liability is Just a jerk looking to sell a high priced gun to make his numbers look good. If my Boss heard that exchange the clerk would have got a butt chewing. Then again he only hires retired military or police guys.

You did good.

Sam1911
June 6, 2012, 07:17 AM
Probably just his standard comment to get folks to not give out advice to his customers in his shop. While I certainly would not argue with what you said, I doubt I'd last very long as a gun shop manager because I doubt I'd have the patience to listen to the constant barrage of silly, dumb, illegal, and just plain wrong 'advice' given out by so many customers, tire-kickers, and guns-shore-stand-around types.

The sign on my door would have to read:

"Welcome to my shop! Come in, make your purchase, KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT, and go away! ... Y'all come back now, hear?"

:) I probably wouldn't be in business for long.


(Heck...I listened to a very professional trainer giving a class at our club last week. I had to leave the room because I was having trouble not correcting some of the stupid crap he was saying. Yeah...not gonna make it as a gun shop guy! :uhoh: :))

bigfatdave
June 6, 2012, 07:23 AM
1 - your advice was insultingly simplistic
2 - the guy behind the counter picked a very silly excuse to stop you, for whatever reason of his own

Lex Luthier
June 6, 2012, 07:25 AM
If you don't work there, stay out of it. I like to walk around with my mouth shut and just pay attention. You learn real fast who is sharp.

So an uninformed sucker walks into a store......

CDR_Glock
June 6, 2012, 07:40 AM
I've given general advice to people in stores for at least 20 years. It was really strange to hear that comment.

I recall saying that Diamondback was not a good gun and to stay the heck away from it, until she researched the gun for herself (she said, "I like that pink gun"). I said focus on functionality over a style. Semiautomatics require more Maintenance because they have to be taken apart to clean (guide rods, springs, barrel, and slide) versus a revolver with 5-6 holes to curb with a brush.

Lastly, not to focus upon lightweight guns because the recoil is hard to tame for someone who's a novice. As she left I said, take a gun safety class before she decides upon any gun.

When I give advice like that, I just want someone to be informed. I've had some managers ask if I want to work there, and I tell them, No. I prefer being a Physician.

Sam1911
June 6, 2012, 07:50 AM
Yup, all sounds like good advice.

Of course, if you hadn't said anything she might have, maybe, bought a gun from the owner that day. Money today is a lot better than "maybe" money someday.

If I was a shop owner, I'd like to think I'd give much the same kinds of advice you did. But, in MY shop, I'D want to be the one talking up the customers and giving the advice.

Loosedhorse
June 6, 2012, 07:51 AM
The shop owner said to be careful since the advice I give, as a customer, could be a liability for him as a shop owner.In a way he's right: anyone can sue anybody for anything. He should have warned you about the liability atttached to breathing in his store, too. ;)Just a way of saying "Shaddap, kid!" Yeah, but with an "Either I or you will be stupid enough to believe this, so here it goes" twist.

If you like to talk to folks in a gun store (personally, I think customers conversing makes the atmosphere friendlier), seems like it's time to find another gun store.

j1
June 6, 2012, 08:46 AM
Seems to me that you did not give up your freedom of speech at the door to the shop. What you say should be thought of first but need not be aligned with what the owner wants to sell. Maybe a short discussion is in order between the shop owner and you. Friendly I hope.

Sam1911
June 6, 2012, 08:59 AM
Seems to me that you did not give up your freedom of speech at the door to the shop.Actually, that's not really true. He does not have to permit you to say anything on his private property. Your 1st Amendment rights mean the government cannot stifle your right to speak your mind. A business owner or property owner certainly can, on his property. If you stand around his shop speaking your mind he has every right to tell you to leave.

bikerdoc
June 6, 2012, 09:01 AM
I doubt I'd last very long as a gun shop manager because I doubt I'd have the patience to listen to the constant barrage of silly, dumb, illegal, and just plain wrong 'advice' given out by so many customers, tire-kickers, and guns-shore-stand-around types.



We deal with them every day. (sigh) "Usually we say "really" tell me more about your Knowledge/experience with...."
They stammer or say I heard it on the internet, or my friends brother
has an uncle in Toledo that....

Then we lower the boom with real world advice, politely of course. :)

Stump Water
June 6, 2012, 10:21 AM
Actually, that's not really true. He does not have to permit you to say anything on his private property. Your 1st Amendment rights mean the government cannot stifle your right to speak your mind. A business owner or property owner certainly can, on his property. If you stand around his shop speaking your mind he has every right to tell you to leave.

So many people don't realize this.

And the same applies to internet message boards.

Skribs
June 6, 2012, 10:53 AM
Any advice you give the customer is license for him to just stand around, so why wouldn't he let you talk?

Sam1911
June 6, 2012, 11:19 AM
Why wouldn't he?

Well...maybe because you just encouraged a potential customer to NOT buy a gun today.

Or maybe because the thing you believe and want to share is the opposite of what he believes and wants to share, and perhaps undermines his trustworthiness with his customer.

Or maybe because he really believes he holds some ethical (or even legal) liability for the advice doled out under his roof and doesn't want to have to screen and/or correct your comments.

Or maybe he just wants to be king in his castle and it's all a poor personality issue -- who knows?

Could be a lot of things.

kcshooter
June 6, 2012, 11:22 AM
Lawsuit, no. (Well, I suppose in theory, yes, but good luck.)

But,If I was a shop owner, I'd like to think I'd give much the same kinds of advice you did. But, in MY shop, I'D want to be the one talking up the customers and giving the adviceExactly what I was thinking.


so why wouldn't he let you talk?I've heard WAAAAY more bad advice than good advice given by customers to other customers browsing at a gun shop.

HGUNHNTR
June 6, 2012, 11:31 AM
He said, she said, doesn't hold water in a court of law. Freedom of speech has nothing to do with this at all, the dude just wanted you to mind your own business while he did his job--selling guns.

HOOfan_1
June 6, 2012, 11:37 AM
If the lady went up to CDR_Glock and asked him his advice, then the shop owner has no cause for being angry, unless he is just a jerk. If CDR_Glock interrupted a sale then I could see where the owner would be perturbed. Doesn't mean he is correct about the liability claim.

Dumb and incorrect advice is given on both sides of the counter.

Auf Grosser Fahrt
June 6, 2012, 11:38 AM
You walk into a store and you can't casually talk to someone? Baloney!

That said, I would wait for her to specifically lean over to me, or look at me directly and ask my opinion, before I offered it. Lady did this to me at Cheaper Than Dirt last weekend. Walked up next to me and said, "Sir, what do you think about ... ?" I'd say if the shop owner doesn't like it at that point, he should tell her.

I answered the lady.

Skribs
June 6, 2012, 11:44 AM
Well...maybe because you just encouraged a potential customer to NOT buy a gun today.

Where did it say he encouraged her to wait?

Snag
June 6, 2012, 12:01 PM
It's nice to be helpful, even better when any input you have is appreciated. In a gun store though 99% of the time nobody gives a crap what you have to think. Employees of the place will also get grumpy cause they just want to make a sale. It's all none of my business so I bite my tongue and wait my turn.

I was in one of my local places a couple months ago to pick up a pistol I ordered. A father, his son with new wife in toe, were looking at shotguns for home defense. For whatever reason the store employee was really pushing some used "tactical" 12 gauge units with every possible accessory you can think of attached. Long story short from the conversation none of these people had ever owned a gun, definite gun handling safety concerns from what I seen in the shop lol, and that poor girl looked very intimidated by the shotgun.

Anything I would have said would of probably just irritated everyone. The only fer sure time someone will want your opinion is when they're in to pick up a gun and you casually say "I have one of those". Then they will talk your ear off.

tomrkba
June 6, 2012, 12:02 PM
I believe the advice given was not very good; at least it was incomplete (which is worse). First, he suggested a revolver. While this is a fine choice in and of itself, the odds are she will buy a snub nosed revolver. THR knows that the snubby revolver is a difficult gun to master. Furthermore, I suspect that the lady will buy the lightest snub nosed revolver around, which is one of the Air Lite S&W J-Frame models. Do you see where I am going with this? She's going to fire five rounds of 38 Special +P (because a gun store guy told her to buy +P because "it's more effective") and all five rounds are going to be painful. She is then going to look at her target, see very few hits and wonder why she bought "the thing" in the first place.

Is it any wonder why so many women get turned off of handgun shooting?


Here is what you should have said (paraphrased):

1) Handgun shooting, especially for defense involves quite a few skills.
2) Learning to shoot a handgun for defense requires a certain type of gun. Such guns need to fully fill the hand, have a longer barrel (usually in the 4-5" range), have clear sights, and a good trigger.
3) Any service grade handgun will do the job. The first gun should be no smaller than a Glock 19 or an S&W K-Frame in 38 Special with three or four barrel.
4) Learning to run the gun is essential. This requires training, either through a series of one hour lessons at the range or a formal two to four day defensive handgun class.
5) Running a revolver is more difficult than running a semi-automatic. The basic manual of arms of the revolver is more simple, but the double action trigger pull of the modern revolver can be difficult to manage--especially if a lady's hand strength is not up to the task! Again, proper instruction in the skills needed for self-defense, from the beginning, is essential.
6) A gun need not be bought immediately. Instruction should be acquired first. Many instructors will have many handguns available for her to test.
7) Give the lady the cards of several local instructors. Walk her over to the gun store clerk. Explain the situation to the clerk to get them involved. They may have the name of a trainer they like or an in-house person who works at their range.

Sam1911
June 6, 2012, 12:03 PM
Where did it say he encouraged her to wait?


In post 11 he mentioned, "...As she left I said, take a gun safety class before she decides upon any gun," which could be taken to mean she left without buying anything.

Whether or not she would have without his advice, I don't know, and doesn't really matter.

You asked why an owner might not want a customer standing around giving advice. The fact that someone's advice might kill a sale would be one reason.

Skribs
June 6, 2012, 12:15 PM
Ah, Sam, I missed that.

I do agree with Tom. My Mom's first gun was a revolver, and she realized she had better results with the Sig P238. Not that hard to take down (and easier to clean the barrel), it's soft-shooting for a .380 pocket pistol, and she had a lot faster follow-up shots than with a revolver (DA was pretty much a no-go for her).

tomrkba
June 6, 2012, 12:31 PM
Addendum:

8) Shooting is FUN! This is our secret weapon and it should be exploited at every opportunity.

aeriedad
June 6, 2012, 12:45 PM
I believe the advice given was not very good; at least it was incomplete (which is worse). First, he suggested a revolver. While this is a fine choice in and of itself, the odds are she will buy a snub nosed revolver. THR knows that the snubby revolver is a difficult gun to master. Furthermore, I suspect that the lady will buy the lightest snub nosed revolver around, which is one of the Air Lite S&W J-Frame models. Do you see where I am going with this? She's going to fire five rounds of 38 Special +P (because a gun store guy told her to buy +P because "it's more effective") and all five rounds are going to be painful. She is then going to look at her target, see very few hits and wonder why she bought "the thing" in the first place.

Is it any wonder why so many women get turned off of handgun shooting?


Here is what you should have said (paraphrased):

1) Handgun shooting, especially for defense involves quite a few skills.
2) Learning to shoot a handgun for defense requires a certain type of gun. Such guns need to fully fill the hand, have a longer barrel (usually in the 4-5" range), have clear sights, and a good trigger.
3) Any service grade handgun will do the job. The first gun should be no smaller than a Glock 19 or an S&W K-Frame in 38 Special with three or four barrel.
4) Learning to run the gun is essential. This requires training, either through a series of one hour lessons at the range or a formal two to four day defensive handgun class.
5) Running a revolver is more difficult than running a semi-automatic. The basic manual of arms of the revolver is more simple, but the double action trigger pull of the modern revolver can be difficult to manage--especially if a lady's hand strength is not up to the task! Again, proper instruction in the skills needed for self-defense, from the beginning, is essential.
6) A gun need not be bought immediately. Instruction should be acquired first. Many instructors will have many handguns available for her to test.
7) Give the lady the cards of several local instructors. Walk her over to the gun store clerk. Explain the situation to the clerk to get them involved. They may have the name of a trainer they like or an in-house person who works at their range.
Addendum:

8) Shooting is FUN! This is our secret weapon and it should be exploited at every opportunity.

Really? All eight points, paraphrased, in an impromtu discussion between customers in a gun store, right in front of the sales clerk or store owner?

The OP wondered whether the shop owner's response was reasonable in his recent experience. I wonder whether any clerk--much less the shop owner--would let you get to point number three in your list.

TenDriver
June 6, 2012, 01:25 PM
If I was a shop owner, I'd like to think I'd give much the same kinds of advice you did. But, in MY shop, I'D want to be the one talking up the customers and giving the advice.

Somehow I don't think this is the kind of place I'd want to shop, although I don't disagree with your rationale.

HGUNHNTR
June 6, 2012, 01:32 PM
Just remember that this is the shop owners place of business--how they feed their family. Yes they should give good advice and listen to the customer, being sensitive to their questions, needs and concerns. Be aware that your opinion (no matter how sage and wise it might be) is usually not welcome. The saleperson/owner needs to be in charge of the sales process, and losing control of the conversation usually results in a lost sale. I have been on both sides of the counter, and have heard some atrocious recommendations from both other customers and sales people. Your best bet if you hear a salesperson seriously misleading a customer is to speak to their manager or the owner. Don't butt in. The dude on the other side of the counter doesn't know you, the responsible, knowledgable gun owner, from some internet commando hack.

tomrkba
June 6, 2012, 01:51 PM
Really? All eight points, paraphrased, in an impromtu discussion between customers in a gun store, right in front of the sales clerk or store owner?

This assumes you're not interrupting a transaction or conversation; don't do that. Doing so depends upon how lost the person looks or sounds, whether or not they're getting assistance, how busy the store is, etc. Another technique is to start the conversation, include the gun store clerk in the middle and let them finish it.

The conversation must be inclusive of the gun store. You're not discouraging anything and some sort of business is going to go to the store. Additionally, it almost guarantees a second purchase in that the new shooter will have a service sized handgun and will likely come back for a smaller pistol later. Even better, if the shop has a gun range, then you're encouraging them to buy range time with instruction and asking the clerk for a list of trainers.

bergmen
June 6, 2012, 01:55 PM
I'll relate a similar experience of mine although conducted a little differently.

A former co-worker contacted me with interest in purchasing her first defensive handgun (this would be for home defense, very difficult to get CCW in her county).

Long story short, I invited her up to my house for a session on handguns that took several hours. We went from there to the range so she could shoot several types and decide what worked for her (we shot Glock G19, S&W 15-4, S&W Airweight, Ruger GP100 with .38 Special +P). She settled on the GP100, really liked it. She also liked the idea of being able to move up to .357 Magnum at some point although they were a bit stout for her now.

A few weeks later I get a call from her and she had found a used GP100 at a local gun store. I arranged to meet her there and when we arrived I informed the owner that I was advising Rita on a potential purchase. He handed me the revolver and deferred completely to me to run the show. I inspected the gun showing Rita what I was looking for and advised her that this was indeed a good buy. She took over, filled out the paperwork and we all left the shop in good spirits.

I had made a few purchases there in the past but I was not a "regular". They may have recognized that I knew a little bit but I would not have been surprised if they didn't recognize me.

Some gun shop owners do things differently.

Dan

SSN Vet
June 6, 2012, 02:23 PM
Perhaps the store owner would like the opportunity to advise the customers who visit his store himself.... seems kind of reasonable to me....

I think his comment was a polite way of saying he didn't appreciate what you were doing.

CDR_Glock
June 6, 2012, 03:02 PM
When she saw the 1911s I said they're nice but the require more maintenance. She said she wanted easier to take care of. She was likely just a casual browser with no intention or money to buy one. I just hate when people pick a "pretty gun" without much forethought.

Thanks, everyone.

C0untZer0
June 6, 2012, 04:00 PM
Did she actually ask you for your advice?

I went in to pick up a 9mm once and some guy in the shop felt it his duty to blurt out "Get a .45 - it's got knockdown power."

OK, whatever... :rolleyes:

ScottieG59
June 6, 2012, 04:03 PM
I sometimes give people advice if they ask for it, but I am careful to stay within my role as a guest in someone else's business.

I agree that someone who sells things will have an incentive to sell the biggest moneymaker. The worker in earning a living and is there to do so. If you interfere, you may have useful knowledge about the product, but you are interfering with a business transaction.

Think about it in your workplace.

Often, we so much want to help people, we give the good, but unwelcome advice.

I have seen many new shooters look at a gun that will not serve their objectives. If it is a woman I find attractive, maybe I would want to share my share my great knowledge in whatever she desires. Let's not pretend my desires are in line with her desires.

russ69
June 6, 2012, 05:17 PM
I'm a big blabber mouth, I just can't help it. When I'm in a gun shop, I might say something to another customer, if I particularly like the firearm being looked at. If it's a gun I'm not to keen about, I won't say a word, I MMOB. But I am enthusiastic and I will tell a customer that I really like his selection. Same for the salesman.

gspn
June 6, 2012, 08:52 PM
There's a reason he runs a gun store and not a law office.

I agree with whoever said it was his way of saying "shaddup kid".

CDR_Glock
June 6, 2012, 09:19 PM
Did she actually ask you for your advice?

I went in to pick up a 9mm once and some guy in the shop felt it his duty to blurt out "Get a .45 - it's got knockdown power."

OK, whatever... :rolleyes:

She was like, Oh! Look at that cute pink gun. I'd like that!

It was in reference to a Diamondback DB380. I said, Do some research for yourself before you consider that type of gun.

She may have been just joking around but I take all guns seriously. If there is one less uninformed person in this world, I did my job.

--

I was at another store in Jacksonville Fl. This guy wanted the cheapest gun he could find. I asked what he planned to do with it. I talked him into a Glock or an XD instead. I also told him to choose a gun with the holster to make sure it was something that he would be motivated to carry. That gun salesman was very happy that day.

--

moewadle
June 6, 2012, 11:02 PM
do the talking and advising. You, as a customer or whatever, are interfering with the legitimate owner's business. It is not for you to be acting in the role you took on. You should have done the right thing and polite thing and kept your mouth shut. Period. End of story.

Lost Sheep
June 6, 2012, 11:50 PM
do the talking and advising. You, as a customer or whatever, are interfering with the legitimate owner's business. It is not for you to be acting in the role you took on. You should have done the right thing and polite thing and kept your mouth shut. Period. End of story.
Well, there are always multiple sides to any story.

Politely keeping one's mouth shut or being helpful to educating a potential gun owner. You were there. None of us were.

Always be polite, though. Even if someone is rude. Be polite.

Lost Sheep

drsfmd
June 7, 2012, 10:34 AM
A few weeks later I get a call from her and she had found a used GP100 at a local gun store. I arranged to meet her there and when we arrived I informed the owner that I was advising Rita on a potential purchase. He handed me the revolver and deferred completely to me to run the show. I inspected the gun showing Rita what I was looking for and advised her that this was indeed a good buy. She took over, filled out the paperwork and we all left the shop in good spirits.

I had made a few purchases there in the past but I was not a "regular". They may have recognized that I knew a little bit but I would not have been surprised if they didn't recognize me.

Some gun shop owners do things differently.

That's a lot different than random-stranger-interjects-himself-in-a-conversation-he-had-no-business-in-and-wasn't-wanted. In the OP's story, as a shop employee I'd be pretty peeved. I'm not looking to make a sale for the sake of a sale... I'm looking to give good advice and build a customer base that will come back. Random guy interrupting and interjecting doesn't help. He probably would be invited to shop elsewhere.

Auf Grosser Fahrt
June 7, 2012, 06:38 PM
Funny, Countzero! Yeah, a .45 is just like .50 BMG. And a 9mm is just like a .22 Short.

mnrivrat
June 7, 2012, 07:34 PM
Let the advise and comments regarding products be done between the customer and the business sales staff.

I don't hang around your restraunt telling folks what they should order off the menu, nor do I butt in when someone is ordering and tell them they can get that burger across the street for 50 cents less .

Practicaly nobody does that, so I see no reason to accept that same type behavior in a gunstore. If you are not part of the transaction - butt out !

CDR_Glock
June 7, 2012, 09:05 PM
Let the advise and comments regarding products be done between the customer and the business sales staff.

I don't hang around your restraunt telling folks what they should order off the menu, nor do I butt in when someone is ordering and tell them they can get that burger across the street for 50 cents less .

Practicaly nobody does that, so I see no reason to accept that same type behavior in a gunstore. If you are not part of the transaction - butt out !

Good points. Keeping opinions to self.

doc2rn
June 7, 2012, 09:28 PM
I would do like I did last weekend and take the woman over to the range side and let her try my selection of handguns. It never fails how many want my S&W mod 10s! Even after shooting an FNP and a 1911! They love the Model 10s with a Fobus grip!:D

Ala Dan
June 7, 2012, 09:45 PM
Your advice was right on TARGET; and I'm quite sure well taken. The gun shop
"hand" needs to educate himself/herself, and stay out of other's conversations;
unless their opinion is asked for~!!!!!!! :eek: :uhoh: ;)

skeeziks
June 8, 2012, 02:05 PM
Look...whenever I observe a sales clerk/shop owner giving bum advice to a customer I always try to steer the customer in the right direction. But I never do it within earshot of the clerk.
I just use common sense....

kb58
June 8, 2012, 04:37 PM
I sometimes give people advice if they ask for it, but I am careful to stay within my role as a guest in someone else's business.
Yup. Think of being in someone's home and offering advice to another guest at the dinner table about the meal that the host is serving.

nofishbob
June 8, 2012, 05:07 PM
Think of being in someone's home and offering advice to another guest at the dinner table about the meal that the host is serving.

Since we are talking about a business, not a home, wouldn't a better analogy be two patrons in a restaurant discussing the menu?

The gun shop is not a home, you are not a guest there.

The gun shop is a business, you are a customer there.

Bob

Bushpilot
June 10, 2012, 08:21 AM
When I give advice like that, I just want someone to be informed. I've had some managers ask if I want to work there, and I tell them, No. I prefer being a Physician.

How would you like the gun shop owner walking into your office and giving medical advice to your patients?

jj1962hemi
June 10, 2012, 09:09 AM
I'm with the OP, assuming the atmosphere in the store warranted it. Maybe it didn't, given him getting shut down. I always try to be friendly to other patrons in any gun store. Especially with a newbie, I think we're all on trial when they're in a gun store. I'd add that, in my gun-unfriendly area, two of the four stores I frequent are run by crotchety guys who are difficult to approach and take some time to "crack." I've put up with this for years, due to lack of alternatives.


The OP was hardly being a weekend warrior blowhard, which is what we we all find annoying.

I get Sam's point, but when I'm in a store, as I frequently am, where my presence seems to be an inconvenience to the person behind the counter, I'm more concerned with people like the lady in question being comfortable than I am with the owner being even more irritable than he typically is.

I know that many of you come from areas where gun ownership is more common, where you can stroll in to an LGS and grab a cup of coffee and have a conversation (the kinds of stores I'd rather have in my neighborhood, but don't), I'm probably more jealous than disagreeable.

tomrkba
June 10, 2012, 09:33 AM
How would you like the gun shop owner walking into your office and giving medical advice to your patients?

There is a HUGE difference between a doctor and a gun shop owner/clerk in terms of expertise in their fields. The lowest level of entry for a a gun shop is retail sales and knowledge is not at expert level (such people don't do retail gun sales with very rare exceptions). I have heard too much poor advice come out of the mouths of gun store owners, managers and clerks. Worse, I have seen most of them modify the information to facilitate the sale of a certain gun. I place them at the level of used car salesmen until proven otherwise. I have become convinced that much of the "gun mythology" is perpetuated by these people since most gun owners do not attend quality training courses.

So, yes, intervene early if possible. If not, do so outside the store after the sale. I keep brochures from quality training organizations in my vehicle for this reason. Failure to do so means a lost chance at getting them proper training, and possibly, one fewer gun owner in the near future.

Bushpilot
June 10, 2012, 09:45 AM
There is a HUGE difference between a doctor and a gun shop owner/clerk in terms of expertise in their fields. The lowest level of entry for a a gun shop is retail sales and knowledge is not at expert level (such people don't do retail gun sales with very rare exceptions). I have heard too much poor advice come out of the mouths of gun store owners, managers and clerks.

This issue isn't about how much knowledge each possesses in their respective fields. The issue is whether or not it is appropriate to interfere. Being a doctor does not automatically make one an expert on guns or any other topic outside their field.

PTMCCAIN
June 10, 2012, 09:49 AM
Gun stores can be fun experiences, or ridiculous. We have a great indoor shooting range with an attached store that is to die for, it's always fun to strike up conversations with customers and staff over various firearms.

But then again, it can also be the theater of the absurd in some shops.

CDR_Glock
June 10, 2012, 06:13 PM
This issue isn't about how much knowledge each possesses in their respective fields. The issue is whether or not it is appropriate to interfere. Being a doctor does not automatically make one an expert on guns or any other topic outside their field.

True, sir. However, I have been educated in many subjects of our lifestyle enough to render an opinion worthy of listening.

This is the only store where this comment of being "liable" for an opinion made by a fellow customer. From where does this "jurisdiction" or liability end for him? Outside of his earshot? In the parking lot? What if I had texted her or written an follow up referral by email? The boundaries of his claim end within the store or extend to a parking lot? He has no control over the 1st amendment as we all share in the second amendment.

Anyways, I'll just grin and move on. Thanks.

Bushpilot
June 10, 2012, 10:08 PM
Deleted...

Captain Brown Beard
June 11, 2012, 01:04 AM
I'm going to have to agree with what some of the other posters said about dollar signs. It would appear that the counter guy was more interested in up-selling something "better", because after all, can you put a price on your life?

Unless it's a guy I know, I tend to view gun store guys much as I would a used car salesman. At the end of the day their goal is to make money, not spending 30 minutes convincing you that the $300 revolver will be just as good in your purse as the $1000 Sig.

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