Australian Olympic Swimmers in Hot Water over Gun Photos


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Hypnogator
June 8, 2012, 11:48 AM
Apparently a couple of Australian Olympic swimmers training in the US had the temerity to pose with a couple of pistols and shotguns on Facebook. The Australian Olympic Committee, not surprisingly, got their panties in a wad, and demanded they remove them. Full story at:

http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/08/world/asia/australia-swimmer-gun-photos/index.html?eref=igoogledmn_topstories

The notion of gun ownership "norming" in the US is certainly not catching on elsewhere. This is one of the most important reasons we need to oppose UN efforts to "control" small arms. :scrutiny:

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roadrod
June 8, 2012, 11:53 AM
I've been to OZ twice, sister lives there. Great people, but what else would expect from a country that doesn't even have guns in its war museums.

Skribs
June 8, 2012, 12:49 PM
Here's a good comment on the article:

As a spokesman for criminals I want to thank the Aussie government for disarming the people that we target. Sorry about the increase in crime but we must take advantage.

I can't really comment on the first or second amendment, because it's Australia instead of USA, but I'm glad I live here and can post whatever the hell I want on FB.

grasssnake
June 8, 2012, 01:09 PM
You actually can comment on the first and second amendment, because those rights are enumerated as rights of man not rights of a government, so all peoples have those God given rights. The question is whether they wish to abrogate them and not defend them from a tyrant.

wojownik
June 8, 2012, 01:22 PM
I'm having trouble wrapping my head around this one;

http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/08/world/asia/australia-swimmer-gun-photos/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Two Australian swimmers visit a US gun shop, and have a picture taken holding a few firearms (wasn't identified whether they are doing anything inappropriate or unsafe int the picture).

They post the picture on facebook (presumably a personal account)

The Australian swim teams comes down on the two because the posted picture was "inappropriate"

The Olympic committee may still weigh in with sanctions.

Seriously? Is something missing form the story? And would it not be rather hypocritical for ISOC to sanction anyone, since several shooting sports are Olympic events? Maybe if there is someone from Australia on the High Road, they can help fill in the blanks, if there are any...

Like I said, I just can't wrap my head around this one.

Cosmoline
June 8, 2012, 01:25 PM
It just reenforces the point that gun control is about the state's power over its subjects. It has nothing to do with public safety or crime.

Skribs
June 8, 2012, 01:42 PM
I guess to the aussies it's about the same as it would be here in the US if you had a picture on FB of yourself smoking a crack pipe.

Sam1911
June 8, 2012, 01:46 PM
[Merged.]

Is something missing form the story? And would it not be rather hypocritical for ISOC to sanction anyone, since several shooting sports are Olympic events?While I obviously have nothing but the deepest contempt for such a move, I don't think this would be seen as at all similar to Olympic sport shooting. If they'd been photographed in Biathalon gear, or at the Olympic Trap range or something, nothing would have likely been said.

But...
The image, taken in a gun shop in Santa Clara, California, showed Nick D'Arcy with two pistols standing next to Kenrick Monk who is holding two shotguns across his chest,

That sounds a lot like the common "Gangsta" or maybe even pseudo-tacticool posing some young newbie types like to do when first exposed to firearms. If so, I imagine it was not seen as presenting a good image of the nation's athletes. While, AGAIN, I find any such prejudicial actions anathema, many institutions, schools, agencies, bureaus, corporations, etc., would have (and have had) similar reactions to their publicly known personnel appearing in similar photos.

Remember this from 2009? http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=428383

wojownik
June 8, 2012, 01:55 PM
To be clear, there are no state entities involved in this, per se. The parties are the two swimmers, the Australian swim team, and possibly the Olympic committee (IOC).

Whether or not the Australian swim team has some kind of rules of conduct, presumably bolstered by a sense of unfettered political correctness, is one issue (and frankly a private matter).

However, if the IOC was to try and sanction the two for some reason, I would certainly hope that the U.S. representatives to the IOC would weigh in vocally against such a sanction (though I would not hold my breath on that one).

Here's the actual picture ... It might have been even more valuable for the sports organizations to treat this as a teachable event on how to properly handle firearms:

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02241/GUNS2_2241428b.jpg

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02241/GUNS2_2241428b.jpg

General Geoff
June 8, 2012, 02:37 PM
about as controversial as posting a picture of oneself smoking a joint in Amsterdam....

kb58
June 8, 2012, 03:02 PM
about as controversial as posting a picture of oneself smoking a joint in Amsterdam....
Unfortunately, when seen from countries where it is a big deal, yes it is.

holdencm9
June 8, 2012, 03:23 PM
Unfortunately, when seen from countries where it is a big deal, yes it is.

That's kind of the point. If I went to Amsterdam and posted pics on FB of myself smoking a joint, my employer may disapprove, because I am "representing" my company in a sense. A client could see that and be turned off. Who knows. In this case, Swimming Australia obviously doesn't like the image that the picture conveys, and as olympic athletes are in a sense ambassadors for their country and their sport, I can understand their reaction, although I think sanctions from the IOC would be totally inappropriate as they didn't do anything wrong. And this is not to say I agree with Swimming Australia, I 100% disagree and think they need to pull their H out of their A, but that's beside the point.

1KPerDay
June 8, 2012, 03:43 PM
I find that photo deeply offensive!! Look at their hair, for heaven's sake!!!

travisd
June 8, 2012, 03:56 PM
Read the same story on yahoo a couple days ago. According to them It is a offensive picture because the shotguns look like shotguns previously used to kill people.. Makes a lot of sense lol

"In the picture, Monk held pump action shotguns that resemble those used in the Port Arthur massacre of 1996, an incident which still stands as one of Australia's deadliest shootings. D'Arcy held a semi-automatic pistol."

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/olympics-fourth-place-medal/australian-olympic-swimmers-criticized-facebook-gun-photo-154500136.html

LemmyCaution
June 8, 2012, 04:00 PM
about as controversial as posting a picture of oneself smoking a joint in Amsterdam....

Um, google 'Michael Phelps,' maybe?

Texan Scott
June 8, 2012, 05:56 PM
About every one of my brit friends when they come to the states wants to try 2 things.. a real steak house, and the gun range. The giddy, giggly toddlerish look on the face of a grown man when he finds out he can RENT a full-auto MP5 at the range is pricelessly comical. After looking at that photo, I can see this is exactly what happened to these young men. Anti-gun bias aside, their committee probably (perhaps rightly) feels that these young 'ambassadors of their country' look like a "foin pehr'a BLOOMIN' <deleted>wits".

'cuz they do. :D

Skribs
June 8, 2012, 06:39 PM
Actually the Brits that stayed at my house when I was a kid were more fascinated by the trash compactor than either of those things.

Texan Scott
June 8, 2012, 06:51 PM
Yes, i could see that... and anything plumbing-related.

Yoda
June 8, 2012, 08:00 PM
Well, it's clear to me that they need some training in the safe handling of guns. Check those trigger fingers. But, being from Australia, how would they know?

- - - Yoda

monotonous_iterancy
June 8, 2012, 08:07 PM
So they swim in hot water for the Olympics now? Well, I have heard that it's good for your health in moderate amounts.

Zoogster
June 8, 2012, 08:12 PM
I don't see anything wrong with the picture.


Now if they were Americans I would go on about how clearly unsafe they are, how they have fingers on the trigger, how the pistol in the right hand of the pistol guy is pointing at shotgun guy, etc
How they are playing into pop culture and in unrealistic foolish poses with a serious piece of equipment. Someone cannot even use two pump action shotguns at a time, and we all know duel wielding pistols is for video games and movies.
In America guns are normal, and people should know how to safely operate common normal items that are a Right. Mishandling should not be tolerated.

However they are Australian, so none of that really applies because regular people don't have access to guns there. Those that do go through an extensive process and learn how to use them for sporting purposes only which will teach them how to handle the firearm (and they will be locked in their state approved safe unloaded when not target shooting at a formal location.)
Expecting an Australian to know how to properly handle a firearm is like expecting everyone here to know how to properly operate a random pick piece of industrial machinery. It is something most people will never be around, and so have no reason to ever need to know how to safely operate. Sure it would be nice if every person knew how to safely use every piece of machinery, but unfortunately that is not possible.







As for offensive? I see it as two tourists taking part in something foreign. They are not even shooting them, just posing with something common often lamented in other nations. Americans have this false image as gun crazy cowboys in some parts of the world, so posing with some guns in America is just kinda playing into that for viewers back home.
It is a 'was there and did that' image.
In fact the irony of it is they are probably making fun of guns, innocently of course. Because people in most such nations are raised to view guns as quite bad, and the notion that regular people can easily obtain firearms is seen as foolishness. A concept they probably partially hold themselves which makes holding them up feel a little naughty and so is part of the attraction to do so while in America. Yet it is still innocent touristy fun, even as people who are representatives. Getting some pictures holding guns in America is an iconic foreign culture picture.

razorback2003
June 8, 2012, 08:31 PM
Just should keep their fingers off the triggers of the guns. Nothing else wrong with the picture. They aren't pointing the guns at one another. Glad to see these guys are having fun and I hope they tried out some guns at the range.

T Bran
June 8, 2012, 08:46 PM
This is one of the biggest reasons that I am thankful to have been born in a free country.
Keep in mind that if we dont fight to keep our rights we will surely wind up in the same boat.
T

Carl N. Brown
June 8, 2012, 09:30 PM
Gun Control Australia spokesman John Crook said it was a new low for the pair. ... Mr Crook said Monk was holding the same pump-action shot guns used by Martin Bryant, who murdered 35 people in Port Arthur in 1996.

I can scarcely go through the week without seeing people on TV posing with the same weapons used by our worst local murderer to kill three people--one just a block from the apartment where I lived. Yet I suspect that if I condemned cooks for brandishing knives or ball players for swinging bats, people would find that a bit off.

It is people like John Crock that make guns morbid forbidden fruit for a lot of impressionable youths.

splattergun
June 8, 2012, 09:49 PM
So, what would the reaction have been if this were the 2 members of Australia's Olympic shooting team? Is the 'outrage' reserved only for non-shooting competitors?

B!ngo
June 8, 2012, 09:52 PM
You actually can comment on the first and second amendment, because those rights are enumerated as rights of man not rights of a government, so all peoples have those God given rights. The question is whether they wish to abrogate them and not defend them from a tyrant.
I feel obliged to add that it was our founders who determined that these are god-given rights, while other founderss have not. I am glad to be living in the U.S., and very patriotic, and respect and abide by the Constitution, but I always thought it odd it and a conundrum that mortals, some 250 years ago determined what rights were god-given and documented them as such. And that we as citizens endorse their decisions.
B

Tinpig
June 8, 2012, 11:37 PM
Well, the Aussies still had guns when I was there in 1965, but even then I didn't see much trigger discipline. I took this picture in Queensland of some guys going on a kangeroo hunt one evening. :rolleyes:

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc91/ccanhamjr/Aust%20NZ%20USSR/aussie.jpg

Tinpig

EddieNFL
June 9, 2012, 09:46 AM
Mr Crook said Monk was holding the same pump-action shot guns used by Martin Bryant, who murdered 35 people in Port Arthur in 1996.

Wow! Wonder how he manged to get them from the evidence locker?

sgtstryker
June 9, 2012, 11:41 AM
We can all look at this and understand that way too many in our own country would have us seen in the same light. Under the same yoke, so to speak.

SharpsDressedMan
June 9, 2012, 02:59 PM
What happened to "When in Rome, do as the Romans do"? With all due respect, and I mean respect due to the individuals AND the country they are visiting (in this case, the US), why besmirch the laws of another country where the two idividuals are enjoying a little "gun freedom"? It may not be proper, politically correct, or legal at home in Australia, but in the country they are visiting, it is "right at home", perfectly legal, and mostly accepted "photo for fun" behavior in a gunshop. Quit trying to bring some "out of country" crap to another country's freedoms and practices. Maybe they (Australia) ought not let THEIR citizens out of their country if this bothers them so much.

SharpsDressedMan
June 9, 2012, 03:05 PM
Oh, and with regards to "certain inalienable rights", our Constitution has been revered, emulated, and copied by thinking men and believers of freedom, liberty, and democracy around the globe, and is only feared, rejected, or critcized by those who would deny OTHERS the same freedoms that THEY want to have, and feel they deserve, like communists, dictators, and other power hungry manipulators.

wojownik
June 10, 2012, 05:40 PM
Again, this does not appear to be a issue of state vs. individual, but of private association vs. individual. And to join or maintain membership in an association (whether swimming federation, country club, whatever), you may well voluntarily agree to abridge some of your rights: such as freedom of expression (you consent not to speak against of the association in public, or engage in conduct that would reflect badly on the association).

In this case, it looks like the swimming federation is of the opinion that holding shotguns and pistols in public is "conduct unbecoming".

Sam1911
June 10, 2012, 06:15 PM
In this case, it looks like the swimming federation is of the opinion that holding shotguns and pistols in public is "conduct unbecoming".
Well, let's not sugar-coat it too much. It looks like the swimming federation is of the opinion that posing like a pair of armed "gangstas" is conduct unbecoming.

We've no reason to believe that they would have had any reaction if a picture had been posted showing them shooting a round of trap, or deer hunting, or practicing Olympic free pistol with their pals from the national shooting teams.

While I STILL feel it is reprehensible to censure these guys for that picture, the fact remains it wasn't a "neutral" image. Honestly, I'd be embarrassed if any of my kids posted something like that.

I'd wager if they'd posted the same photo without the guns, but wearing big gold chains, smoking joints, with a couple of strippers on their arms, and flashing gang signs, the Committee would have had roughly the same reaction.

Hugo
June 10, 2012, 10:48 PM
This is so pathetic. What the heck media? This is news to you? Slow news day hype failure!

If they were rifle competitors this would be no big deal except for the trigger discipline (fingers off the triggers you dopes!). Heck even archery competitors would be no big deal since they would be checking out the "other" ranged projectile launchers.

wojownik
June 11, 2012, 01:08 AM
Well, let's not sugar-coat it too much.

No sugar coating intended. They behaved stupidly, handled firearms dangerously. And I'll go a step further ... why would the gun shop staff allow these two guys hold multiple firearms, goofing around with them?

Anyways, better context of the ongoing story in the article below.

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/olympics-2012/gunplay-swimmers-punishment-right-on-target-olympic-shooter-20120611-205bm.html

Looks like they'll be getting a reprimand from the Australian Olympic Committee, will be allowed to compete in the Olympics, but will not be allowed to stick around the Olympics after they complete their matches. Looks like these two guys have a history of getting themselves into a pickle.

Some good quotes from someone on the Australian Olympic Shooting team, who does not hold any punches about the unsafe handling of the firearms.

Texan Scott
June 11, 2012, 04:16 AM
if they'd posted the same photo without the guns, but wearing big gold chains, smoking joints, with a couple of strippers on their arms,

... the Commitee might've wondered what the heck they were doing back in Canberra...

but yeah, if they're doing something in public that embarrasses or offends people back home, the committee will feel they're not being well behaved representatives of the sport or their country. i remember how much grief charles barkley got for misbehaving and trying to say 'i'm not a role model'... but we didn't accept that from one of our own. as silly as we think it is, the aussies are having the same reaction.

oneounceload
June 11, 2012, 09:44 AM
And YET - the very cute Austrailian Olympic shooter who is posing in a men's magazine was deemed to be OK...........

http://www.mademan.com/chickipedia/lauryn-mark/photosgallery/lauryn-mark-beretta/

http://www.theage.com.au/sport/olympics-2012/shooter-lauryn-mark-stands-by-her-man-kini-20120525-1z9g0.html

Mp7
June 11, 2012, 09:51 AM
they sure look like dorks in the pic.
But that not illegal :-)

ol' scratch
June 11, 2012, 11:06 AM
Here's a good comment on the article:



I can't really comment on the first or second amendment, because it's Australia instead of USA, but I'm glad I live here and can post whatever the hell I want on FB.

Not if you are a teacher. http://www.wkow.com/Global/story.asp?S=9781795&nav=menu1362_1

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