Folding stock 10/22


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M91/30
June 8, 2012, 06:08 PM
I have a slight problem, I have a 10/22 with a butler creek stock.
I was looking at having my barrel threaded and shortened to 16.5"
The overall length right now is 27 1/4in folded and the barrel is 18.5 i think.
It does go by the folded length right? If not Its legally a sbr correct?

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Captains1911
June 8, 2012, 07:54 PM
To classify as an SBR it must have a barrel length less than 16" or an overall length less than 26".

25cschaefer
June 8, 2012, 08:39 PM
Yes, it must be over 26" folded to stay awout of SBR territory.

David E
June 8, 2012, 09:02 PM
You can shorten your barrel, then permanently affix the flash hider. If it "makes length," you're ok.

firesky101
June 9, 2012, 03:39 AM
I thought you folks in the free states got to measure your guns unfolded and extended?

Clermont
June 9, 2012, 06:01 AM
Yes, it must be over 26" folded to stay awout of SBR territory.

The Uzi Models A and B semi-automatic carbines measure 24" in length with the stock folded and 31.5" in length with the folding stock extended, so the legal measurement is taken with the folding stock extended.

David E
June 9, 2012, 10:32 AM
The Uzi Models A and B semi-automatic carbines measure 24" in length with the stock folded and 31.5" in length with the folding stock extended, so the legal measurement is taken with the folding stock extended.

Sure would like to see the citation for that comment.

Clermont
June 9, 2012, 11:04 AM
Sorry, no. Minimum Federal length is 26" overall for a long gun.

I believe you are incorrect. The minimum legal length is measured with the folding stock extended. The overall length of the Uzi carbine with the stock folded is 24". It is classified as a carbine, not classified as "any other weapon". Am I correct?

PBR Streetgang
June 9, 2012, 11:25 AM
how are you measuring it ? From the tip of the barrel to where?

Prince Yamato
June 9, 2012, 11:49 AM
Federally, it's measured with the folding stock extended. I believe only Michigan and California measure it with stocks closed.

Clermont
June 9, 2012, 11:52 AM
how are you measuring it ? From the tip of the barrel to where?

Here are the Uzi Model B specifications, taken from the owners manual. Manufacturer's measurements were taken from the muzzle end of the barrel to the end of the folding stock, in both the folded and extended positions.


http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo11/Clermontny/UZI-Model-B-Specifications.jpg

MIgunguy
June 9, 2012, 12:37 PM
I believe only Michigan ... measure it with stocks closed.
yeah, lucky us... and still no SBRs & SBSs allowed

PBR Streetgang
June 9, 2012, 12:44 PM
The Feds measure with the stock closed or folded also,,

Clermont
June 9, 2012, 12:53 PM
The Feds measure with the stock closed or folded also,,

You are incorrect. The feds measure with the folding stock extended.

Swing
June 9, 2012, 12:55 PM
The Feds measure with the stock closed or folded also,,

Nope. (http://www.victorinc.com/images/AKMFoldingStock.jpg)

PBR Streetgang
June 9, 2012, 01:27 PM
I just did a detailed search and from what I find there is no definitive answer to this question. Seems like ATF can rule either for or against in each case. But there have been some ATF rulings on certain weapons that were given exemptions.

BBDartCA
June 9, 2012, 02:31 PM
I thought ATF just looked at barrel length for SBR. FAQ below on SBR

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/national-firearms-act-short-barreled-rifles-shotguns.html#part-registered

Clermont
June 9, 2012, 02:51 PM
[QUOTE=BBDartCA;8209972]I thought ATF just looked at barrel length for SBR. FAQ below on SBR

You are correct. A "short barrel rifle" requires a barrel length of less than 16" and a "short barrel shotgun" requires a barrel length of less than 18". A rifle with at least an 16" barrel, or a shotgun with at least an 18" barrel, but doesn't meet the federal required minimum overall length for a rifle or shotgun would be required to be registered as "any other weapon".

Swing
June 9, 2012, 04:36 PM
Interesting. The NFA Handbook (http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5320-8/atf-p-5320-8.pdf) mentions OAL for "Weapon made from a rifle". Page 6 and 94, specifically. Its the same in the Identification Guide (http://www.atf.gov/firearms/guides/identification-of-nfa-firearms.html#short-barreled-rifle).

David E
June 9, 2012, 05:29 PM
If its "stock extended," then it sure seems to me that the major manufacturers are missing out on a great money making opportunity.

I need something more than someone online saying "I believe I'm correct" when it comes to such things.

I did find where the ATF talks about the antiquated Marbles Game Getter that's measured with the stock extended, but that's it.

dogtown tom
June 9, 2012, 07:19 PM
David E If its "stock extended," then it sure seems to me that the major manufacturers are missing out on a great money making opportunity.
There are numerous "non NFA" firearms that are less than 26"OAL with stock folded or closed. Manufacturers are well aware of the NFA since its been Federal law since 1934.


I need something more than someone online saying "I believe I'm correct" when it comes to such things.

http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-4.pdf

TITLE 27 CFR CHAPTER II
479.11 Meaning of terms.

Firearm. (a) A shotgun having a
barrel or barrels of less than 18
inches in length; (b) a weapon made
from a shotgun if such weapon as
modified has an overall length of
less than 26 inches or a barrel or
barrels of less than 18 inches in
length; (c) a rifle having a barrel or
barrels of less than 16 inches in
length; (d) a weapon made from a
rifle if such weapon as modified has
an overall length of less than 26
inches or a barrel or barrels of less
than 16 inches in length; (e) any
other weapon, as defined in this
subpart; (f) a machine gun; (g) a
muffler or a silencer for any firearm
whether or not such firearm is included
within this definition; and (h)
a destructive device. The term shall
not include an antique firearm or any
device (other than a machine gun or
destructive device) which, although
designed as a weapon, the Director
finds by reason of the date of its
manufacture, value, design, and
other characteristics is primarily a
collector's item and is not likely to be
used as a weapon. For purposes of
this definition, the length of the barrel
having an integral chamber(s) on
a shotgun or rifle shall be determined
by measuring the distance
between the muzzle and the face of
the bolt, breech, or breech block
when closed and when the shotgun
or rifle is cocked. The overall length
of a weapon made from a shotgun
or rifle is the distance between the
extreme ends of the weapon measured
along a line parallel to the center
line of the bore.

plunge
June 9, 2012, 08:33 PM
The "extreme ends" means longest possible configuration

Swing
June 10, 2012, 12:18 AM
I just did a detailed search and from what I find there is no definitive answer to this question. Seems like ATF can rule either for or against in each case. But there have been some ATF rulings on certain weapons that were given exemptions.

Could you provide some links to the rulings you mentioned? I'd like to read them over.

The "extreme ends" means longest possible configuration

Indeed, so it appears.

MasterSergeantA
June 11, 2012, 09:15 AM
Federally, it's measured with the folding stock extended. I believe only Michigan and California measure it with stocks closed.
Correct. Other states may have similar rules, but at the federal level, it is measured with the stock extended.

Keep in mind that some of the occupied territories still ban folding stocks...period. So it isn't even an issue of SBR vs. non-SBR. It is an evil gun if the stock folds or collapses somehow.

Clermont
June 11, 2012, 10:03 AM
Correct. Other states may have similar rules, but at the federal level, it is measured with the stock extended.

Keep in mind that some of the occupied territories still ban folding stocks...period. So it isn't even an issue of SBR vs. non-SBR. It is an evil gun if the stock folds or collapses somehow.

A "short barrel rifle(SBR)" designation has only to do with a rifle that has a barrel length of less than 16", regardless of overall length, with or without a folding stock. If a rifle with a barrel length of 16" or more, with a fixed or an extended folding stock, and an overall length of less than 26", it would be classified as "any other weapon", not a "short barrel rifle(SBR)".

MasterSergeantA
June 11, 2012, 12:41 PM
A "short barrel rifle(SBR)" designation has only to do with a rifle that has a barrel length of less than 16", regardless of overall length, with or without a folding stock. If a rifle with a barrel length of 16" or more, with a fixed or an extended folding stock, and an overall length of less than 26", it would be classified as "any other weapon", not a "short barrel rifle(SBR)".
Correct.

For purposes of federal regulations, the "overall length" is still measured with the stock extended. And less than 26" falls under the NFA. Some states that ban SBR/SBS allow AOW. Go figure.

M91/30
June 12, 2012, 03:36 PM
Oh wow, quite the response. Thanks for the info, Ill make my decision from it.

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