44mag 296 powder and 180gr XTP?


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Kingcreek
June 12, 2012, 11:33 AM
Yikes!
I've been reloading for years and I'm not recoil shy but...
last night embarking on a new quest for a light-for-caliber load and I tried a starting load (as listed on Winchester/Hogdon website) of 29gr 296 behind some 180gr XTPs in remington brass with Win mag pistol primers and thought I was going to lose a hand! Harsh!! Very sharp recoil in my 629 Classic w 5" barrel.
Accuracy was terrible for the 5 shot group and I really looked things over after the first shot, inspected the cylinder expecting damage but thankfully found none. I almost quit right then. Brass looked OK and extracted with light resistance. I've checked my powder scale and its not off.
Anybody got any suggestions for loading the other 195 jacketed 180gr bullets remaining on my bench? This recipe ain't gonna work.
I've got lots of 296, some AA#7 and AA#9, and some old Unique here.
Thanks!

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1911Tuner
June 12, 2012, 02:45 PM
296 and H-110 general work better with heavier bullets, high pull, and heavy crimp. Try some 2400. It could also be that the rate of twist in the barrel is too fast for the short bullets.

Taroman
June 12, 2012, 03:04 PM
I have done the same thing seeking a mid range 180/XTP load.
Went to the Hornady manual and checked loads for that bullet in 44 Special.
The slowest powder Hornady lists is HS-6. All yours are even slower than that.
As stated all these really slow-burning powders are at their best with heavier bullets and higher pressures.
If you want to throttle back the 44 magnum, look for faster burning powders. In one loading, I've even gad great results with Green Dot!
In developing these loads I generally start at or near the top 44 Special load and work up from there.

788Ham
June 12, 2012, 03:10 PM
Kingcreek,

I know that feeling very well ! I'd loaded some 300 gr. Hornady's with 296 powder, the exact grains of powder escape me right now....... anyway, same effect. After only 3 rounds, I knew I didn't want anymore of this, came home and pulled the rounds I had loaded, gave the bullets to a buddy who shoots them in a .44 rifle. My S&W 629 6" is too nice of a piece to destroy. I have used the 180 gr. bullets you've described, I've used W/W 630 powder, but keep the fps way below warp speed now! I took the reload info for the 300 grainers from a very reliable source, maybe he likes his to roar and jump like that, not me!!

Kingcreek
June 12, 2012, 04:09 PM
I've got some AA#5 and #7 I think I'll try tonight when I get home.
Other option is to shelve the 180 grainers until sometime later.

Salmoneye
June 12, 2012, 04:15 PM
Yikes!
I've been reloading for years and I'm not recoil shy but...
last night embarking on a new quest for a light-for-caliber load and I tried a starting load (as listed on Winchester/Hogdon website) of 29gr 296 behind some 180gr XTPs in remington brass with Win mag pistol primers and thought I was going to lose a hand! Harsh!! Very sharp recoil in my 629 Classic w 5" barrel.

My Hornady 4th edition shows starting load of W-296 with the 180gr XTP to be 26.2gr...

gamestalker
June 12, 2012, 04:40 PM
That is the nature of the beast. I load exclusively with 296 / H110 for all magnum cartridges and absolutely love it. But that kind of performanc eisn't everyone's cup of tea, so to speak. Magnum cartridges such as the 44 mag. and others are intended to produce lots of top end performance when using the real stuff. It ain't gonna hurt the gun or rupture the cases. SBH, SRH and lots of .357 magnum revolvers of mine are all just fine after several K's of 296 loads. Just imagine if you were loading for a .454 or 500 S&W?

Even if you switch bullets, recoil is still going to be what it is using 296. And though you say your not recoil sensitive, your reaction contradicts that. But what ever you do, don't try to down load with 296, or you will experience pressures spikes that can do bad things.

GS

Kingcreek
June 12, 2012, 04:49 PM
I didn't THINK I was recoil sensitive. Maybe too much coffee or something yesterday. I've never flinched with 240 gr bullets and most of my loads and I've used 296 before last night.
Thanks for the replies.

murf
June 12, 2012, 05:09 PM
kingcreek,

i've been shooting 180gn xtp's out of my model 29 for quite a few years. 29 grains is at the upper end of the load range, but should not hurt your gun.

wouldn't shoot a whole lot of them, as flame cutting the topstrap will be an issue.

the two foot fireball out the end of the barrel and out the sides of the cylinder gap are quite impressive.

accuracy with that load in my gun was outstanding.

murf

Salmoneye
June 12, 2012, 05:10 PM
It's not high pressure you have to look out for with downloading W296/H110...It is sticking a bullet in the barrel that is the issue...

From the Hodgdon Data front page:

For those loads listed where a starting load is not shown, start 10% below the suggested maximum load and then approach maximums carefully, watching for any sign of pressure (difficult extraction, cratered and flattened or blown primers, and unusual recoil). H110 and Winchester 296 loads should not be reduced more than 3%.

Reduce H110 and Winchester 296 loads 3% and work up from there. H110 and Winchester 296 if reduced too much will cause inconsistent ignition. In some cases it will lodge a bullet in the barrel, causing a hazardous situation (Barrel Obstruction). This may cause severe personal injury or death to users or bystanders. DO NOT REDUCE H110 LOADS BY MORE THAN 3%.

http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

Cheesemaker
June 12, 2012, 05:15 PM
My favorite .44Mag load is 29gr H110 behind a Hdy 180gr XTP with magnum primers - in my 7.5" Ruger SRH. Yes it is a "stout" round. A couple of thousand to date - the gun is holding up well.

I have not tried it in a shorter barrel.

Kingcreek
June 12, 2012, 05:42 PM
so 29gr is either a starting load or a max load depending on the source...
maybe I'll try downloading the 296 by a couple grains since I know what to expect.
I don't want to beat up my 629. I was hoping to develope a hunting load for whitetails out to 50 yards or so.
years ago I worked up a very accurate load for the 200gr Nosler but I haven't found my recipe and I was not able to find the Noslers locally.

slimfitter
June 12, 2012, 06:21 PM
I shot a model 29 with 4in. barrel and use H110. I load with 200gr. Hornady with Federal magnum primer. H110 burns very clean and is very accurate. I shot the same loads in my RUGER WITH A 7IN. barrel and is still accurate. I use 25gr. of H110. There is very little recoil.

SEE IT LIKE A NATIVE
June 12, 2012, 07:11 PM
The load you tried is the minimum for that powder according to the Hodgdon website! I would try one of the other powders listed (universal,hs6, hp38,231, titegroup, or longshot ) all of them produce loads that yield a velocity in the 1500 range vs the 296 load in the 1700 range . They should be slightly less sharp in recoil ! Kevin

SHR970
June 12, 2012, 10:11 PM
Kingcreek,

Of the powders you listed as on hand, the AA#7 and the Unique are your best options for a less than flamethrower option. Unique will give you mid range to high mid performance while the AA#7 will give you solid upper mid / low high end. AA#9 is nipping close to the heels if not equal to the W296 but with less flash.
Personally I would go with the AA#7 and work a load from there. Since you do have two other powders on hand I suggest that you make a few of each in step loads. Since you said 195 bullets, that means 5 bullets each with three levels of three powders. You will likely find something that floats your boat...then load the other 150 with that combo. The two AA's and Unique won't need magnum primers but if that's all you have no big deal.

ArchAngelCD
June 13, 2012, 01:14 AM
I didn't THINK I was recoil sensitive. Maybe too much coffee or something yesterday. I've never flinched with 240 gr bullets and most of my loads and I've used 296 before last night.
Thanks for the replies.
A flinch can and usually is caused by things other than recoil. Excessive muzzle blast and noise will easily cause a flinch, both are supplied by W296/H110.

I like W296 for full power magnum rounds but when I want to back off a bit I use HS-6. (or Longshot sometimes too)

Mike 27
June 13, 2012, 01:58 AM
I use 296 w/265gr Horn bullets in my SBH Hunter and they are not bad. I picked up some 180 XTP's and ran them with the HS6 and it seemed to have much more recoil. The 296 with the heavier bullets work really well for me but I can't remember why I went with the HS6 other than to finish up a lb I had. Try a little heavier bullet I think you will like it, but my pistol does have a 7.5" bbl so that takes a lot of the recoil.

blarby
June 13, 2012, 02:11 AM
Really good recoil threshold test :

240 GDHP, or Nosler JHP

23+ GRs H-110

If what you had is less than this, real magnum isn't your cup of tea.

200Gr GDHPS and 27 grs of h110 are what I consider "strong". It still won't hurt your gun.

I've found that HS-6 produces really good shooting loads with lighter jacketed and cast bullets- might wanna give that a try.

Salmoneye
June 13, 2012, 07:45 AM
I use 296 w/265gr Horn bullets in my SBH Hunter and they are not bad.

I use the 265gr Hornady in my SBH/Marlin1894 over 22gr H110...

Great accurate hunting load in both...

7075-T7
June 13, 2012, 07:55 AM
I've used the same load, and up to 30.5gr in my Ruger Alaskan with good results. HUGE fireball and a nice boom to go along with it. Cases extracted smoothly. Similar to the factory 180gr Remington UMC's.

I have loaded up some more to try in my 6" 629 from 29gr to 31gr, I'll let you know how they go. :D

Hodgdon's website lists 31.5gr as max with 180xtp and H110.

I found that 800X works well with 180gr XTP's, I used the loads from the current Hornady manual.

elwoodm
June 13, 2012, 08:21 PM
low grain bullets need faster powders. i dont think anybody enjoys having your arms and face sandblasted with hot powder. try power pistol or aa#7 even vit 340 and blue dot would be more enjoyable. ive tried all of those powders with 200gr xtps all the way to 1460 fps with no problems.

k4swb
June 14, 2012, 03:04 PM
Been looking for my notes for two days but after moving 3 times in the past 8 years I seem to have not unpacked all my reloading notes.

Best I can remember:
Gun was a Dan Wesson w/10" heavy bbl
Hornady 180gr XTP
A BUNCH of W296. I do not post figures.
Pact chronograph at about 10' from muzzle.
1st shot blew the chrony over so I moved it slightly further away.
Recoil was not too heavy in this heavy DW revolver but it slapped the snot out of my palm.

Seems I remember pertnear 1700fps velocity but that MAY be wrong.

My 240gr XTP load with 296 don't bark as bad as that 180gr load did.

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