Titegroup and Missouri Bullseye #1 for 1911


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Grig
June 13, 2012, 09:31 AM
New here. For a few years, I have been using Titegroup in my 1911 pushing 230gr Berry's RN w/good result. I have purchased 1k of Missouri Bullseye #1 200gr SWC for the 1911 for target loads. I have on hand an 8 pound jug of Titegroup. But here is the thing. In looking at lots of forums, etc, almost no one uses Titegroup for these bullets. Alliant Bullseye is the most popular by a long shot. Their burn rate is not very different. Is it a mistake for me to use Titegroup w/these bullets? Am I missing something? Or has Bullseye been around for ever, works for a lot of folks who stick with it even though Titegroup would work fine?

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bds
June 13, 2012, 09:43 AM
http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=134972

Red Ryder - Am I the only reloader that thinks Titegroup sucks. It's cheap...but that's all it has going for itself. It's dirty, especially at lower power factors. It doesn't fill the case up very much at all (I think this is a safety issue). It is very "snappy" with increased felt recoil. In my personal testing, I had to load it to almost 140 PF to get decent accuracy from it.

Otto - I don't care for it...burns too hot, stains the brass, excessive recoil and was less accurate in my 1911s.

SLM - I burnt a pound when I shot Production and like you found it to be quite dirty and it put a bunch of heat in the gun. I got it to minor PF under 147's without issue as long as I used jacketed bullets. I couldn't get it to work with lead or moly coated. They would tumble.

Skydiver - You are right on the money about the gun being "hot" after a fast 32 round stage ... I found TiteGroup much too snappy for .40 180gn bullets. Also snappy for .45 200gn bullets

blaster113 - I'm another one thats underwhelmed by Titegroup. I tried a little of it in 9mm minor with 124 grain bullets and found that it had more recoil than my other powders on hand. I've used alot of it for .40 major and didnt care for it at all. For the same PF as N320 it kicks much harder, makes the gun get hot real quick and is dirty.

mlmiller1 - I tried it repeatedly & never got any results that I liked, either. I moved on & sold what I had left.

59Bassman - I like it in 9mm ... However, out of my 1911 in .45ACP, I've fallen out of love with it. I used to shoot WST, then switched to TG under a 200 LSWC. Everything was fine until I had to shoot a long array on a stage with no wind. By the 10th shot, I couldn't see the targets anymore. I'll be looking for another powder in .45

shred - I've also found it to run very hot in most loads.

CZinSC - Another former Tightgroup user here ... My analogy I give people is this: (shooting 124 FMJ) TG is like catching a baseball in a glove straight on the palm. N320 is like catching the ball in the webbing. Both do the job, but N320 feels a lot better.

gm iprod - Dirty, but it is just a carbon / soot fouling that comes away easy enough. Hot, yep, that is true, but no nasty hot, just hotter than many like.

RePete - I don't like TG in .40S&W and .45ACP with lead bullets. IMO it burns too hot and melts the bullet base creating more leading in the barrel.

CocoBolo - TiteGroup don't suck, just because it is violent, nasty dirty, overheats your gun, smokes like burning the sugar cane in mexico, well maybe you right. I tried it I quit it, there are lots of better alternatives.

Miker - I didnt like it last time I tried lead bullets as it produced alot of smoke compared to jacketed bullets

DoubleA - I like TG alright. The accuracy is good, not too dirty in the gun, but I do end up with flakes all over my arms after I have shot 200 rnds or so. The recoil is sharp and snappy

Certaindeaf
June 13, 2012, 09:44 AM
If there's load data for it, give it a try. It's not a popularity contest.

Grig
June 13, 2012, 09:49 AM
Wow! If these opinions are shared widely, then I should consider a different powder.

bds
June 13, 2012, 09:53 AM
For me, Titegroup produces very accurate 9mm jacketed/plated loads but I don't use it for lead loads or 40S&W. YMMV

Jim Watson
June 13, 2012, 09:53 AM
I have on hand an 8 pound jug of Titegroup

I believe I would try Titegroup before dashing off in all directions based on Internet Advice.

Certaindeaf
June 13, 2012, 09:58 AM
Human nature groupthinks and parrots when the clique leader says/does a thing.. I wonder what Brian Enos uses/says? Oh, snappy!

bds
June 13, 2012, 10:01 AM
Titegroup often has narrow load range and can be spikey, especially near max load data (depending on the caliber/bullet, that's often the start charge).

If you are going to load near max/max loads with Titegroup, I would really verify that the powder charges are accurate with a good set of check weights for your scale, your powder measure don't drift in drops and test your finished rounds for neck tension/bullet setback by feeding it from the magazine and measuring the OAL before and after feeding/chambering (I would also avoid thinner wall headstamp cases which provides less neck tension).

Be safe.

Grig
June 13, 2012, 10:03 AM
There certainly are different opinions. Here at THR:

THR > Gear and Ammunition > Handloading and Reloading > Hodgdon Titegroup?

bds
June 13, 2012, 10:06 AM
BTW, welcome to THR Grig!

Grig
June 13, 2012, 10:12 AM
Thanks. I have followed the forums here for some time and decided to get in.

john16443
June 13, 2012, 11:22 AM
Grig - welcome to THR. I have had good success with Titegroup and 200grain LSWC's. My best groups were at 4.5 to 4.9 grains TG using the Mastercast 14BHN 200 SWC's (IL) which are essentially the same as the 12BHN Bullseye #1's from MBC. My data shows that overall, 4.5 grains worked well with Berry's, 200 SWC's, as well as with the Precision hard coated 200gr SWC's. These were all loaded to a COL that allowed a thumbnail thickness of the body above the case mouth and ranged from 1.23" to 1.255" depending on bullet used. All shot from my RIA 5" 1911. Hodgdon data shows a range of 4.8 to 5.4 grains TG using 200 gr LSWC. I can't say that I noticed any abnormal 'dirtiness' with the lower charges, but hey, it's gunpowder, it's going to leave residue behind somewhere. Wipe it off and move on.

On the 9mm front using Berry's bullets, Jay at Berry's has told me he love TG for the 9mm rounds, while his Dad prefers W231 for the same rounds. Just goes to show that some things work better for some people.

Mike 27
June 13, 2012, 12:09 PM
I have not used titegroup, but Bullseye works well on LRN 200gr on my XD45. It is one of my favorites hands down that I load.

Grig
June 15, 2012, 07:14 AM
Thanks for the input. I will work some up. Also Missouri Bullets lists the Bullseye #1 as for "target velocity." I am assuming that this is around 800 fps. Is that correct? What is a good target velocity? They don't state what a target velocity is on their web site anywhere that I can find.

john16443
June 15, 2012, 10:14 AM
Thanks for the input. I will work some up. Also Missouri Bullets lists the Bullseye #1 as for "target velocity." I am assuming that this is around 800 fps. Is that correct? What is a good target velocity? They don't state what a target velocity is on their web site anywhere that I can find.
I call target velocities anywhere between 700 and 800 fps for 45 auto. Some folks load for velocities below 700. YMMV

coalman
June 15, 2012, 11:14 AM
Titegroup is a good powder. It's fast so has a limited range and limited cased fill. I've run it in 9mm and .45acp with good results. Not my first choice though, but good nonetheless.

Ultravox
June 15, 2012, 11:26 AM
I've shot a couple 1000 Missouri Bullseye #1 200gr SWC bullets out of my 1911, but I use Unique or Win 231.

Win 231 meters much better in my Lyman #55, but I have about 4 lbs of Unique that I need to use up. A terrible problem to have, I know. :)

I have a bottle of TiteGroup, but I never tried it with the SWC bullets because I couldn't find a recipe.

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