Kimber/Les Baer mistake on my part


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will919
June 15, 2012, 02:19 AM
I wanted to trade my Kimber Tactical Custom II HD, a Kahr CM9 and a Mossberg Maverick Shotgun. The Kimber and Kahr were both used but barely easily 99-100% with about 100 rounds down the pipe each and both only a couple of months old. The Mossberg was brand New. Anyway a gentleman offered a Les Baer 5" Custom to me. The Baer was pretty beat up not functionally (I assume) but cosmetically and in seem very loose (a bit of a rattle noticed). The guy was actually was willing to trade me the Kimber for the Les Baer straight up. In fact, when we meet he offered me $50 extra to have it refinished.....I politely declined. To me it was well used and in apperance it had considerably more than 500 rounds he claimed. The following day in my amazement he sold the Les Baer Custom for $1200 in about 1 hour on a different forum.
Lesson learned: The Brand name seems to matter more the actual condition of a particular firearm.....Thoughts?????

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Jim Watson
June 15, 2012, 02:31 AM
A loose Baer is very worn. They are built very tight and stay that way a long time.

csa77
June 15, 2012, 09:10 AM
I would never trade a new kimber for a heavily used 1911. the brand name means nothing for me. I have a kimber sereis 1 target, has over 5,000 rounds thought it and there is no rattle what so ever.

im gonna guess that les bear to be ratteling is well past 10,000 rounds. ether that or the guy just shot the gun bone dry.

it would also cost far more then 50$ to refinish a gun

atomd
June 15, 2012, 10:17 AM
I would never trade a new kimber for a heavily used 1911. the brand name means nothing for me. I have a kimber sereis 1 target, has over 5,000 rounds thought it and there is no rattle what so ever.

im gonna guess that les bear to be ratteling is well past 10,000 rounds. ether that or the guy just shot the gun bone dry.

5,000 rounds is nothing. If you've ever seen how tight Baer pistols are....it would take a heck of a lot more than that to loosen it up...or some bad gunsmithing after the fact. The Baer was a much better pistol than any Kimber in it's day...but it's probably been through the wringer.

F-111 John
June 15, 2012, 10:33 AM
Lesson learned: The Brand name seems to matter more the actual condition of a particular firearm.....Thoughts?????
Alternate lesson learned: P.T. Barnum was correct. (Even though the quote really wasn't his...)

surjimmy
June 15, 2012, 07:18 PM
I would always take a well used Baer over any Kimber. I said used not abused.

shootniron
June 15, 2012, 07:27 PM
A rattling Les Baer don't skeer me...I would have swapped him so quick it would have had his head swimming.

BYJO4
June 15, 2012, 08:05 PM
For a Baer to rattle, it has been shot very, very, very heavily. I think you made a good decision. You can buy a new Baer PII for around $1800 and it is worth every penny.

EddieNFL
June 15, 2012, 09:02 PM
I would never trade a new kimber for a heavily used 1911. the brand name means nothing for me. I have a kimber sereis 1 target, has over 5,000 rounds thought it and there is no rattle what so ever.

I have more than 5K thru a Baer less than one year old and it is still tighter than the three Kimbers I have owned and any others I have fired.

im gonna guess that les bear to be ratteling is well past 10,000 rounds. ether that or the guy just shot the gun bone dry.

If it was properly maintained more like 50K.

csa77
June 15, 2012, 10:16 PM
come on now 50,000 rounds?! now i dont own any pistol with a round count anywhere near that, but I would imagine even barrel would have been shot out 15,000-20,000 rounds befor that.if a les bear still has zero play what so ever even after the barrel is long gone then ...then i dont even know what to say but that extremely hard to believe.


BTW for the record i never said 5,000 rounds was alot, i was just comparing what i have though MY gun to the gun that was claimed to have 500 though it.

its amzaing how on edge the les bear crowd is.

Balrog
June 16, 2012, 01:48 AM
I would prefer a beat up Les Baer to a Kimber any day.
In fact, I would prefer a pointy stick to any of the Kimbers I have owned. I made a vow never to own another Kimber because of their spotty reliability and worst customer service I have ever encountered.

Rinspeed
June 17, 2012, 01:11 AM
come on now 50,000 rounds?! now i dont own any pistol with a round count anywhere near that, but I would imagine even barrel would have been shot out 15,000-20,000 rounds befor that.if a les bear still has zero play what so ever even after the barrel is long gone then ...then i dont even know what to say but that extremely hard to believe.





Try not to post after you've been drinking.

ljnowell
June 17, 2012, 01:21 AM
come on now 50,000 rounds?! now i dont own any pistol with a round count anywhere near that, but I would imagine even barrel would have been shot out 15,000-20,000 rounds befor that.if a les bear still has zero play what so ever even after the barrel is long gone then ...then i dont even know what to say but that extremely hard to believe.


um, no. and wow.

Claude Clay
June 17, 2012, 01:27 AM
i reload and my gold match from 2/98 has 47K rounds.
still shoots 1.5" groups at 25 yards and the trigger is still 2.25 pounds.
3rd set of springs.
a good gun, treated proper is virturally timeless.

a gun that raattles has been wronged. bought over the web 'as is' at $1200
and someone made out like a thief.

Skylerbone
June 17, 2012, 03:17 AM
A moderator on another forum I frequent posed a question about his friend's Les Baer. The pistol had broken a lower lug during a match and the owner was looking to have a new barrel fit. The round count was over the 100,000 mark and had been winning and placing right to the breaking point. It was still wrench tight and Mr. Baer, concluded the breakage was a fluke and replaced the barrel on his dime.

Unless the owner sanded on it there's little chance anything on that Baer was loose. Rattle? A loose grip panel can rattle as can the grip safety but without knowing what to look for NO used firearm is too good a deal to pass up. Plenty of auction sites move abused Baers and the like under $1,200.

357 Terms
June 17, 2012, 08:19 AM
When you say it had a "rattle" could you determine what was making the noise?

Did it have an empty mag in it?

How was the slide to frame fit?

I think I would have made that trade, if that guy shot enough to wear out a Baer I doubt he thought a Kimber would last long....just saying.

SlamFire1
June 17, 2012, 12:16 PM
My Les Baer is ungodly tight, that is the way they come from the factory and one that rattles is worn out or has been mistreated.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/Pistols%20various/ReducedLesBauer.jpg

K1500
June 17, 2012, 12:22 PM
It could also have been put together with Baer parts. I knew someone who replaced the factory slide on his Baer with another Baer slide himself. He wanted different sight cuts, and he did a great job, but not everyone does. You have to wonder WHY this fellow would swap a Baer for a Kimber?

TennJed
June 17, 2012, 02:28 PM
come on now 50,000 rounds?! now i dont own any pistol with a round count anywhere near that, but I would imagine even barrel would have been shot out 15,000-20,000 rounds befor that.if a les bear still has zero play what so ever even after the barrel is long gone then ...then i dont even know what to say but that extremely hard to believe.


BTW for the record i never said 5,000 rounds was alot, i was just comparing what i have though MY gun to the gun that was claimed to have 500 though it.

its amzaing how on edge the les bear crowd is.
Are you saying no gun can't last past 20k rounds? If so you are mistaken. Plenty of guns can go past 50k

Peter M. Eick
June 17, 2012, 02:56 PM
Of my Baer's several are approach 10,000 rounds. All are super tight still and no rattles at all.

Unless they put some grinding compound somewhere and fired their 500 rounds, I don't see how you could get a rattle out of a Baer. None of my now 4 show that behavior at all.

coalman
June 17, 2012, 03:15 PM
IMO, good pass unless the plan was to just flip it. $1200 for a thrashed Baer is not a good deal. And, you have no idea what Bubba-smithing may have been done on/to it anyway. The "rattle" may have been telling of more issues.

EddieNFL
June 17, 2012, 05:23 PM
its amzaing how on edge the les bear crowd is.

Especially when challenged by those without the experience to back it up.

EddieNFL
June 17, 2012, 05:29 PM
Of my Baer's several are approach 10,000 rounds. All are super tight still and no rattles at all.


A well built and properly maintained firearm does not come with a specified service life and will far outlast the average shooter.

I have a Wilson with over 25K, but to be completely honest, I have changed all the springs numerous times and tensioned the extractor once. ;)

Vern Humphrey
June 17, 2012, 08:03 PM
come on now 50,000 rounds?! now i dont own any pistol with a round count anywhere near that, but I would imagine even barrel would have been shot out 15,000-20,000 rounds befor that.if a les bear still has zero play what so ever even after the barrel is long gone then ...then i dont even know what to say but that extremely hard to believe.
I have a Kimber that is 17 years old, and I put 5,000 cast bullets a year through it and have the primer boxes to prove it. Cast bullets leave very little wer in the bore.

Skylerbone
June 18, 2012, 12:25 AM
A bit of light reading if you care about another Baer that was snapped up as a "good deal" that turned in to an ordeal. http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=363005 While the owner wound up with a nicer (and cheaper) than new one it's not always so simple. Both Rob and Jim were final inspectors at Les Baer and have customized several 1911s for me, still fitting things the way they did for LB.

Used is used but abused is another animal entirely.

cpirtle
June 18, 2012, 01:19 AM
Vern, you save your primer boxes? That's darn near 850 empy boxes.. wish I had your storage space ;)

Based on what the OP described about the gun & not seeing it in person, I'd advise passing. Not because I think a Baer would rattle like that but because it sounds like someone tinkered with it. I have also seen a case where someone unknowingly bought a "Colt" only to find out it was a Colt slide on a parts frame/gun, could have been a similar case.

788Ham
June 18, 2012, 01:25 AM
I just finished reading that other 1911 forum, what a read! Those folks really do some fantastic work, wonder if they could re-blue my Beretta 1935? Thanks for posting this thread !!

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