Enough flare?


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JSmith
June 15, 2012, 03:38 PM
I'm reloading .44 magnums in once-fired brass. Based on my experience with the .357 cases being shaved just a bit in the seating die, I decided to back off the flare a little on the .44. My question now is, am I flaring the cases enough to allow proper seating?

Attached photo, left to right: 1) resized, unexpanded case, 2) primed and flared, 3) primed, flared, bullet finger-seated. The bullet is .609 OAL and goes into the case .11".

I'm interested in your opinions on this.

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Certaindeaf
June 15, 2012, 03:42 PM
I think you flared it too much. Just enough for the case to barely hold it for jacketed bullets is plenty.

JohnM
June 15, 2012, 03:46 PM
In the photo it looks like wayyy too much.
As said above, flare just enough to Barely hold a bullet in place.
Lightly bevel the inside of your case mouth.
If you load with lead it can take a touch more.

rcmodel
June 15, 2012, 03:47 PM
Yep.

All you need to do is flare enough to hand start a bullet in the case.
I like to hand start them straight so I can pick them up out of a loading block to seat & crimp them.

rc

kingmt
June 15, 2012, 03:47 PM
I agree. To much.

mdi
June 15, 2012, 04:19 PM
.44 Magnum is my most favorite round, and I reload with lead 99.9% of the time (22 years ago I used some jacketed soft nose bullets, but no jacketed since). I don't think the flare pictured is way excessive, a bit maybe, but if it's working for you use that much. Some folks will warn about case life and heavy flaring, but I find that a non-issue. A straight case like the. 44 magnum will last a loooooong time, to the effect I quit counting reloads. I don't load near max. any more (all the dinosaurs are gone from Oregon) so I'm not wearing out my brass "prematurely", whatever that is. Use the amount of flare pictured and if it "drags" on your seating die, back off a bit...

blarby
June 15, 2012, 05:09 PM
I agree, too much.

You don't need a ton.

As gamestalker likes to recommend, and I have tried- just chamfering the case mouth to allow seating of jacketed rounds works great- and in theory will extend case life.

If you want to flare, a little less than that will do !

dagger dog
June 15, 2012, 05:22 PM
You will get a lot of early, 2-3 loadings, case mouth splits with that much flare, it over works the brass and it becomes brittle.

If the base on the bullet in your photos is flat,back off the flare die depth untill the bullet will just barley set into the mouth., it only needs to be the 2X the case thickness wider. A lot of nose pour cast bullets have a small bevel base which makes it even easier to use less flare.

You will always have some bulge in the case as the bullet pushes into the sized case even with minimal flare.

JSmith
June 15, 2012, 06:16 PM
Huh. Glad I asked!

When you guys say, "barely start a bullet"... I can do that without putting the case through the expander die at all. The photo is of a resized, unexpanded case - the bullet is still seated n the case by .05". It will stay there if I turn it upside down.

I'm using Berry's plated bullets, not jacketed, and I'm afraid the case mouth will peel the plating off if I don't flare them at least minimally.

Dagger Dog said to flare to 2x the case thickness. For these cases that's .012 so I'd flare the inside diameter by .024, does that sound right?

beatledog7
June 15, 2012, 06:34 PM
If it stays there when you let go and the bullet doesn't get shaved when you press it in, you're good. As you become more comfortable with your equipment and what it's going to do, you may find that "measurable" or discernible flaring is only needed for .001-.002 over caliber lead bullets.

I rarely flare for plated or jacketed bullets anymore; if I do it's not enough to see or even feel.

Steel Horse Rider
June 15, 2012, 07:15 PM
When I flare my straight wall cases I stop when I can feel the flare more than see the flare. The flare is only necessary to allow the bullet to enter the case mouth without hanging up.

gamestalker
June 15, 2012, 08:28 PM
I can't really add much to the already everyones excellent replies. Just bell (flare) to the least degree necessary. Or if you chamfer (bevel) the inside of the mouth nicely, you can skip the belling process enitrely. It's a time saving step that extends case life a bit and provides maximum neck tension.

I'm glad my no belling method is working out well for you Blarby!

GS

Walkalong
June 15, 2012, 08:30 PM
Flare minimally. If you are not shaving copper, your good to go. Your flare will work just fine, and probably not lessen case life enough to notice, but I do not like to use more flare than the crimp can not only fully remove, but also push back against the bullet. That can be tricky when using a light taper crimp, but most times is easy enough.

JLDickmon
June 15, 2012, 09:05 PM
Huh. Glad I asked!

When you guys say, "barely start a bullet"... I can do that without putting the case through the expander die at all. The photo is of a resized, unexpanded case - the bullet is still seated n the case by .05". It will stay there if I turn it upside down.

I'm using Berry's plated bullets, not jacketed, and I'm afraid the case mouth will peel the plating off if I don't flare them at least minimally.

Dagger Dog said to flare to 2x the case thickness. For these cases that's .012 so I'd flare the inside diameter by .024, does that sound right?
Are your bullets .429 or .430?
A .429 would need little, if any more flare than that..

dagger dog
June 15, 2012, 09:09 PM
JSmith,

I used that case wall thickness number just to give a rough idea how little flare is needed.

Just as everyone else has said just use the minimal amount needed.

I would imagine you are roll crimping for your 44 mag'.

When you run the round into the seating-crimp die,if you have too much flare you can feel the outer edge of the case mouth wall drag against the inside of the die, as you reduce the amount of flare that dragging sensation will dissapear,then you know you have the correct amount.

rfwobbly
June 15, 2012, 09:18 PM
Flare minimally. If you are not shaving copper, your good to go.

Good words.

Flare may vary depending on the bullet. A lead bullet (being larger diameter) will require slightly more. Something like a bullet from Berry Mfg, with a radiused base, will require slightly less.

One sure sign is that there are no bullet shavings under the seating die.

ranger335v
June 15, 2012, 09:46 PM
"If it stays there when you let go and the bullet doesn't get shaved when you press it in, you're good."

Exactly. The point of flare is to permit bullets to enter without damaging the heels, adding more flare that that accomplishes nothing at all. Properly chamfering the case mouths help.

JSmith
June 16, 2012, 10:15 AM
OK... I'm still going to flare, just a hair over the resized-case ID so the plating dosn't get shaved. (Berry's does caution - repeatedly - that that plating layer is pretty thin.)

Question about the chamfer tool: after repeated reloads, isn't the chamfer tool eroding the case mouth from the inside, peeling off just a little at at time? I was of the understanding that you'd use one of those to deburr after trimming a rifle case, but not necessarily otherwise.

Berry's lists the nominal diameter of these bullets as .429.

And, as always... thanks for sharing your experience while I develop some of my own.

JohnM
June 16, 2012, 10:22 AM
For me anyway chamfering/beveling is a one time operation unless it's a case that needs trimming, then of course it needs done again.

Snag
June 16, 2012, 10:36 AM
To echo everyone else you need just enough flair to sit the bullet on top. When I stated reloading I did too much.

Go for just a few thousandths, 3-5 works for me, larger than the case.

edfardos
June 16, 2012, 12:30 PM
I used plated in 44mag. Increase flare until the bullet doesn't wobble when you set it, watch for shavings, you can feel the flare with a fingernail more than you can see it.

I'm giving up on plated in 44mag. Check your forcing cone for copper tinfoil and soft lead in your barrel. They shed plating, even at 1200fps.

edfardos

Walkalong
June 16, 2012, 02:13 PM
Some revolvers simply hate plated bullets for some reason. I have had two of them. Others shoot them at 1300 FPS with excellent accuracy. Go figure. Most shoot them at least pretty well.

JSmith
June 16, 2012, 04:26 PM
I'm kinda stuck with plated bullets because the indoor range where I shoot has a "no lead" policy, and a jacketed round is more than I want to spend to punch a hole in a piece of paper. The 220gr. Berry's plated were .14 each in quantity 1000, MidwayUSA has Sierra Tournamentmaster 220gr FMJ for ~.25 each, quantity 100. The Sierras would be a fine bullet, I'm sure, but that's still a quarter flying downrange every time I pull the trigger... 25.00 for my usual two-box range visit... and one of the reasons I started reloading was because of the ammunition cost.

The plateds worked well the last time I shot 'em, now I'm just getting some details worked out. Thanks again to the forum for helping.

blarby
June 17, 2012, 05:16 PM
That flare looks good.

Just be careful of your crimp on the plating.... I know, something else to look out for, right ?

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