Cobray Mac 11 9mm


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crest117
June 16, 2012, 01:13 PM
I saw a Cobray Mac 11 9mm for sale at a gun show, the owner said it was semi-automatic and fired from an open bolt. It also had a metal stock, thin metal rods that slid into a closed position or locked open. The seller said that this would require no special permits. Is he correct? And does the thin metal stock that slides into the frame make a difference in the status? I know little about these types of firearms but I thought it required special permits to have a stock of any type on a handgun.

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dprice3844444
June 16, 2012, 01:24 PM
short barrelled rifle nfa item if barrel was less than 16 inches,or an smg if it was on single shot

Trebor
June 16, 2012, 02:41 PM
The ATF does not allow manufacture of new open-bolt semi-auto's as they are too easily converted to MG's. However, those manufactured before the ban in the 1980's can still be sold. That could be what you saw.

The thing is, the stock would DEFINITELY make it a short barrelled rifle and it would require ATF NFA Paperwork and tax paid to be transfered to anyone. Assuming it is even legally registered in the first place

There's also the chance it was a full-auto illegal MG.

In any event, stay away, stay far away. The seller isn't doesn't know how illegal this setup is, or doesn't care.

7.62 Nato
June 16, 2012, 03:11 PM
What was the barrel length ?

JTW Jr.
June 17, 2012, 12:57 AM
Yeah , could have been one of those carbines. Weird looking with that longer bll.

jmorris
June 17, 2012, 10:19 AM
The carbine M11's didn't use the wire stock. Could have been a pistol that someone cut the slots in it for the SMG stock, unknowingly making an SBR at the same time. Unless it's on a form 1 (be pretty stupid at that point though).

What did he want for it? If it was around $3k it was likely a SMG and requires nothing special except an approved form 4.

crest117
June 17, 2012, 12:42 PM
The barrel length looked to be no more than six inches, the stock was what I think is referred to as a wire stock that pushed into slots in the frame. He wanted $500 for the gun with a soft case,screw on barrel extension that looked like a fake suppressor, and three thirty round mags. As I said, he said it fired from an open bolt. Just for future reference, how would you tell if one of these was full auto or semi-auto? This one had a switch on the front left side of the frame that said semi but no marking that said auto, on the right side of the frame was marked "fire and safe" but no apparent safety. Also marked at the rear right side of frame "SWD Incorprated Atlanta Ga." Serial number started with 85- followed by seven numbers. I took down the information because I thought it might be illegal and was curious, but it is odd that he had it displayed openly and for sale at a gun show with the illegal stock.

crest117
June 17, 2012, 12:48 PM
The barrel length looked to be no more than six inches, the stock was what I think is referred to as a wire stock that pushed into slots in the frame. He wanted $500 for the gun with a soft case,screw on barrel extension that looked like a fake suppressor, and three thirty round mags. As I said, he said it fired from an open bolt. Just for future reference, how would you tell if one of these was full auto or semi-auto? This one had a switch on the front left side of the frame that said semi but no marking that said auto, on the right side of the frame was marked "fire and safe" but no apparent safety. Also marked at the rear right side of frame "SWD Incorprated Atlanta Ga." Serial number started with 85- followed by seven numbers. I took down the information because I thought it might be illegal and was curious, but it is odd that he had it displayed openly and for sale at a gun show with the illegal stock.

Trebor
June 17, 2012, 04:57 PM
crest,

Many people don't understand the rules about what makes a rifle a short barrelled rifle (SBR) or what turns a pistol into a "Any Other Weapon" (AOW). They don't know that you can't just add a stock to a pistol, or take a rifle a with a stock and shorten the barrel below 16". Both are illegal without ATF approval.

He either knows it's illegal, and doesn't care, or doesn't realize it's illegal. Either way, stay away,'cause it's bad Ju Ju.

cuervo
June 17, 2012, 09:45 PM
Here's something semi-related and interesting:
http://www.gunauction.com/news/article/20120611-What-about-all-those-82-8-machine-guns.cfm

jmorris
June 17, 2012, 09:46 PM
That's a good price for an open bolt semi but you would need to weld up the slots for the stock for it to be legal without a stamp.

AK103K
June 17, 2012, 10:34 PM
Just for future reference, how would you tell if one of these was full auto or semi-auto?
The easiest way would to be put the selector in the auto or "blank" position 180 degrees from the semi position, cock the gun, and while holding on to the cocking knob, squeeze the trigger and hold it to the rear as you let the bolt go forward. When it closes, pull it back while still holding the trigger back, and see if it stops in the open position. If it does, its a semi, if it goes forward again, its full. Holding the trigger on a full auto will allow the bolt to cycle as long as the trigger is held back.

Id also try it with the selector in the semi position, just to make sure somebody didnt fool with it.

Acera
June 19, 2012, 10:55 PM
Did you see the stock pulled out, or was it just retracted the entire time?

I have seen many of this type of gun that has the folding or retracting stock welded in place closed or retracted to keep it legal.

Where was the show?

Brockak47
June 20, 2012, 02:21 AM
I would buy it, if it's truly Semi open bolt. Regardless if the stock open or not, just weld it so it does not open, then you get it for the looks & you get a sweeeet deal on a semi auto open bolt mac

klyph
June 20, 2012, 02:34 AM
It's well known that Federal agents offer illegal firearms for sale at gun shows. Their justification is that they're catching illegal firearms purchasers, but it's not far off from the recent "Operation Fast and Furious" IMHO.
If you see someone selling an illegal firearm, just smile and back away slowly.

tepin
June 20, 2012, 03:44 PM
How about buy the gun but tell the dealer to remove and keep the stock or have him ship the stock to someone that doesn't live with you?

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