Is Winchester White Box Reliable Ammo?


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CmdrSlander
June 16, 2012, 09:32 PM
Because my RIA M1911 GI has been having a lot of malfunctions but I have only ever shot WWB through it (200 rounds at present). I am hoping this ammo is just unreliable and that the gun will perform better with a different brand. However, if WWB is decent ammo then something is wrong with my gun. With my current schedule I can only make it to the range every couple months so I cannot simply go get some different ammo and test it out (at least not for some time).

Edit: This is the 9mm Version of the gun.

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SlamFire1
June 16, 2012, 09:39 PM
I have no doubt that Winchester factory ammunition is reliable.

Just what sort of issues are you having? Why do you believe the ammunition is at fault?

CmdrSlander
June 16, 2012, 09:41 PM
Why do I believe the ammo is the problem? I don't necessarily think it is, I just want to eliminate that variable.

What kind of problems? Failure to feed, failure to eject, failure to fully cycle.

Sergei Mosin
June 16, 2012, 09:42 PM
I shoot a lot of 9mm and .45 ACP WWB with no problems. Are you running FMJ or JHP ammo? Some guns don't like JHPs, especially when new.

labhound
June 16, 2012, 09:42 PM
Never had a problem with WWB in either 9mm or .45ACP.

CmdrSlander
June 16, 2012, 09:43 PM
FMJ

CmdrSlander
June 16, 2012, 09:44 PM
I suspect the ammo because it looks like fairly dirty ammo and because a Kimber I shot a while back was fairly reliable with PMC .45 Auto but disgraceful with WWB.

EBShooting
June 16, 2012, 09:45 PM
I have never had an issue with wwb. Always found it to be a little on the dirty side though.

sigarms228
June 16, 2012, 09:45 PM
I have not had a problem with WWB but have heard of those that have. I also know that Bruce Gray of Grayguns will not guarantee the functionality of pistols he works on with WWB.

I however have not bought any WWB within the last three years so I don't know if anything has changed since then or not with the quality of WWB.

New pistols can be picky with the ammo they use epsecially during the first 500 rounds so it may very well be ammo related.

I would suggest that you try some Speer Lawman, Federal American Eagle, or Winchester 124 gr NATO loads.

If you use Winchester 124 GR NATO loads and you still have a problem I would say it is pistol/magazine related.

http://www.sgammo.com/product/winchester/50rd-9mm-nato-winchester-ranger-124-grain-fmj-p-ra9124n-ammo


I am assuming you cleaned and properly lubed your new pistol before firing it including the frame rails and barrel exterior??

kokapelli
June 16, 2012, 09:45 PM
I have shot thousands and thousands of rounds of it and can't remember ever having a failure.

CmdrSlander
June 16, 2012, 09:46 PM
Yes, I fully disassembled the pistol and cleaned and lubricated all surfaces. I did this prior to firing and I do this after every range trip. (a grand total of two with this gun).

SlamFire1
June 16, 2012, 09:48 PM
Failure to feed, failure to eject, failure to fully cycle

There are real M1911 experts here, but my first reaction to failure to feed and failure to eject is bad magazines and something off with the extractor/ejector.

Failure to fully cycle, that is unusual.

CmdrSlander
June 16, 2012, 09:49 PM
The extractors on these guns are known to fail and the magazine is known to be of low quality. I will try a new mag and a different brand of ammo next time around.

heeler
June 16, 2012, 10:00 PM
I have used WWB in my PM9,LCP, Diamondback 380, and Ruger Service Six without issue.
I consider it good paractice ammo.
Zero failures or feeds.

Carter
June 16, 2012, 10:11 PM
It ran perfect through my new sti spartan today. All hollow points. That and the ria you have use the same frame.

firesky101
June 17, 2012, 01:49 AM
My FEG did not like WWB. It was too dirty and filled up the extractor with gunk. A swipe of the nylon brush every 50 rounds kept it going. No issues with other brands.

HDCamel
June 17, 2012, 01:58 AM
My Regent R100 handles WWB just fine, even through the POS ACT-mag that it came with.

"Failure to fully cycle" meaning short-stroking? Because failure to go into battery is the same thing as a failure to feed.

CmdrSlander
June 17, 2012, 02:07 AM
My FEG did not like WWB. It was too dirty and filled up the extractor with gunk. A swipe of the nylon brush every 50 rounds kept it going. No issues with other brands.
What is a FEG?

CmdrSlander
June 17, 2012, 02:08 AM
My Regent R100 handles WWB just fine, even through the POS ACT-mag that it came with.

"Failure to fully cycle" meaning short-stroking? Because failure to go into battery is the same thing as a failure to feed.
I think it is an FTF (so no "failure to fully cycle") I was too annoyed at the time to be really clinical about determining the malfunctions.

Shuler13
June 17, 2012, 02:21 AM
I have a 9mm RIA GI. It doesn't like the hornady zombie ammo, but I have successfully used no less that 500 rounds of wwb with no problems. I have also used remington, American eagle and pmc, without issue.

Hollow points I have had issued with. Have not tried steel.

firesky101
June 17, 2012, 02:21 AM
FEG P9R, it is a doublestack 9mm that outwardly resembles a high power, but internally is much closer to a S&W model 59. My first duty size center fire pistol.

YankeeFlyr
June 17, 2012, 02:48 AM
Lotsa WWB through by Beretta 92FS and the Springfield Armory Mil-Spec, no ammo issues; good as Remington UMC as far as reliability goes. Or premium defense ammo, really. Always goes bang and always cycles my bone-stock guns (and my buddy's) just fine.

Packaging is a different story; my buddy and I have had a few boxes that had the flap glue dripping into the box interior and leaving pieces of solidified semi-adhered gunk on the rounds. That's shoddy machine set-up!

But with the ammo? Never for me in the 92, the SA or in my friend's 226.

Shuler13
June 17, 2012, 03:24 AM
On a broader use, I would say 90% of what I use in my P226, M&P, and 5906 is WWB since Wally world sells it $21/100 rounds.

Dr.Rob
June 17, 2012, 03:47 AM
I never had an issue with WW white box 9mm.

What kind of malfunctions are you having?

CmdrSlander
June 17, 2012, 04:01 AM
I never had an issue with WW white box 9mm.

What kind of malfunctions are you having?
FTEs and FTFs.

I am going to try lubricating the gun again immediately before heading to the range, as it was fairly reliable for the first 100 rounds fired and those were fired shortly after I had received, cleaned and lubricated the firearm, while the next 100 rounds were horribly unreliable and were fired a month after I had last cleaned and lubricated the firearm (after the first range trip).

CmdrSlander
June 17, 2012, 04:08 AM
Oh and poor accuracy second time around (first range trip with the gun was nearly flawless)

CmdrSlander
June 17, 2012, 04:14 AM
I'm beginning to think I got a bad box. Given that the number of malfunctions was so high and it was very inaccurate. It is value pack ammo so I imagine they skimp on QC.

Shuler13
June 17, 2012, 04:57 AM
Or try any remaining in another pistol. But I'd give up and go get another box and start over.

Kiln
June 17, 2012, 05:50 AM
I frequently use WWB in my 9mm and both of my .40 caliber handguns. It always works great for me...unless the gun in question is just unreliable no matter what ammo I put into it.

Usually when I'm out plinking I either have Winchester White Box or Remington UMC 250 packs with me, depending on what I can afford at the time.

Texas19Delta
June 17, 2012, 06:10 AM
I recently shot a box (100 rounds) and had three fail to fire. All had good fire pin hits on the primer, just no bang.

Friendly, Don't Fire!
June 17, 2012, 07:55 AM
I have purchased quite a bit of the W. white-box and have shot a lot of it. It always functioned flawlessly in two different handguns, one being a revolver, the other being a small semi-automatic.

Milamber
June 17, 2012, 08:07 AM
I have shot probably a thousand rounds of WWB through my Beretta PX4 .40 in the last twelve months without a single failure of any kind. Reloading all that spent brass now. My addiction is getting the better of me.

Robbins290
June 17, 2012, 08:46 AM
i never had a issue with wwb. all my 9's chew em up. baretta, bdm, 3913 and the 226. thousands and thousand of rounds down range. not one issue. but if its a new gun. you have to break it in. after 4-5 hunderd rounds fired from the 1911, she how it would be running after that.

wtxj
June 17, 2012, 08:57 AM
My new Sig P938 has FTE's with WWB. Shoots American Eagle just fine.
Pistol is new, but I was real disgusted with the WWB in this pistol.

The Lone Haranguer
June 17, 2012, 09:20 AM
Sometimes an individual gun may not "like" a particular brand of ammo, what with all the variations in case and loaded round dimensions, different powder charges and pressure levels, etc. Try some different ammo. If the gun still malfunctions with a cross section of ammo, however - as I suspect it will - it needs repaired. Feeding-related stoppages are often the fault of the magazine and perhaps not the gun itself.

In my own experience with WWB - several thousand rounds through a Glock, SIG and S&W (both Third Generation and M&P), I can think of perhaps two ammo related stoppages, in this case failure to eject in the Glock.

SlamFire1
June 17, 2012, 11:47 AM
I am going to try lubricating the gun again immediately before heading to the range, as it was fairly reliable for the first 100 rounds fired and those were fired shortly after I had received, cleaned and lubricated the firearm, while the next 100 rounds were horribly unreliable and were fired a month after I had last cleaned and lubricated the firearm (after the first range trip).

Keep M1911's well lubricated. Bullseye shooters told me the elbow was the drip point. ;)

HKGuns
June 17, 2012, 11:53 AM
I've always found WWB to be purty dern good in my pistols.

beatledog7
June 17, 2012, 01:52 PM
WWBs have always fine for me in 9mm and .40S&W, but I have no experience with .45ACP. The brass is among the better non-hyper-priced brands for reloading, too.

Weevil
June 17, 2012, 02:54 PM
Just went through about 400 rounds from Wally-World and a 250 round UMC mega-pack of 250 in my 9s the past week. Working on one and testing, working with a new shooter getting into guns, and range time for my carry guns.


No problems at all from the WWB, primer issues with the UMC of the 250 4 had the primers mashed in sideways and of course didn't work, and 3 light strikes in my Witness, all three fired on the second strike.

Now I have occasionally got a bad round in the WWB, the most noticable was a gase that was too long and prevented the pistol from going into battery, and the occasional fail to fire but no worse than any other cheap practice ammo.

Could be a bad box, I have noticed different headstamps on WWB brass, but I tend to lean towards a problem with the gun.

Now some guns are ammo finicky and that's why I like to try different brands of ammo especially with problem guns.

Sig Bill
June 17, 2012, 03:49 PM
I had FTEs with WWB value packs on my KT PF9 9mm and it shoots other brands fine.

My Sigma 9mm and my Sig P250c 40sw shot all the WWBs I put in without any problems, both FMJs and HPs. All other ammo brands had been 100% too.

skeeziks
June 17, 2012, 04:37 PM
The 9mm isn't very conducive to the 1911 design. The 1911 was designed to work with the 45 acp cartridge. It's not uncommon to have feeding problems with a new 9mm 1911 during the break-in period. This doesn't go for All 9mm 1911's - some are built specifically around the 9mm and are as reliable as any other 9mm auto.
You are going to have to try a different brand (ammo) until you find what it likes.

theCan
June 17, 2012, 05:10 PM
Any gun that cant shoot white box reliably isn't much of a gun. Just my opinion.

verdun59
June 17, 2012, 05:23 PM
Beaucoup rounds of WWB fired here and no problems, and it's not as dirty as some others.

Sergei Mosin
June 17, 2012, 05:31 PM
FTEs and FTFs.

I am going to try lubricating the gun again immediately before heading to the range, as it was fairly reliable for the first 100 rounds fired and those were fired shortly after I had received, cleaned and lubricated the firearm, while the next 100 rounds were horribly unreliable and were fired a month after I had last cleaned and lubricated the firearm (after the first range trip).

I suspect you will find that this was your problem. After a month of sitting, your pistol was probably bone-dry. Oil that puppy up and take her back to the range.

skeeziks
June 17, 2012, 05:51 PM
Quote= " Oil that puppy up and take her back to the range."

I just want to change out the word "Oil" for the word "Grease" and say...I agree with this advice wholeheartedly!

I always use grease on all my autos...never oil.

bluetopper
June 17, 2012, 06:26 PM
I can't even begin to try and answer such a question. I'm literally baffled the question was even asked in the first place.

Old Shooter
June 17, 2012, 06:39 PM
WWB is pretty much all I put thru my RIA GI 45 and have had no problems at all with it.

I'd check the magazine and try some others (although all my RIA mags have worked fine) and perhaps step up to the next larger recoil spring (18# instead of 16#).

Other than that, I don't know.

CmdrSlander
June 17, 2012, 06:49 PM
I suspect you will find that this was your problem. After a month of sitting, your pistol was probably bone-dry. Oil that puppy up and take her back to the range.
I will do so. It seems odd that a pistol design which was for all intents and purposes a combat weapon needs to be oiled so frequently. Its just a range toy so I don't really care though.

J_L_A
June 17, 2012, 08:17 PM
WWB is usually all I buy. My .45 and 9mm run flawlessly.

marsofold
June 17, 2012, 09:29 PM
WWB FMJ gives me larger groups than Speer Lawman TMJ ammo, but I haven't had any failures with it using my Springfield MilSpec.

TarDevil
June 17, 2012, 10:20 PM
Perfect record for me using wwb through my Ruger SR9c.

KTXdm9
June 17, 2012, 10:33 PM
I'm thinking that's the case. That and some guns are just a little more finnicky than others.

Ben86
June 17, 2012, 11:12 PM
Just because a certain type of ammo doesn't work in your gun doesn't mean that the ammo is unlreliable, or even your gun unreliable with different ammo. There can be certain specs about the ammo the gun just doesn't agree with.

WWB has worked fine in all my guns for years.

Shuler13
June 18, 2012, 12:37 AM
I know I just posted singing praises, but got home and found an interesting one while loading my magazines. I had one round about 25% shorter than the rest in a 100 round box. Maybe some qc issues...

Bovice
June 18, 2012, 02:12 AM
WWB is decent, except for what I've been finding lately for their .40 variety. The rounds were roll crimped like you might find on a revolver cartridge. Accuracy was pretty awful. You can't successfully roll crimp a bullet without a cannelure.

Shuler13
June 18, 2012, 10:21 AM
This is literally a 1 in 10,000 rounds that I have purchased of WWB in these bulk packs this year, but it speaks to your concern. For the most part, these rounds are reliable and more accurate than I am.

http://img.tapatalk.com/adae2d61-2ab6-a452.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/adae2d61-2ac3-6118.jpg

bannockburn
June 18, 2012, 10:47 AM
I have never had any problems with WWB in. 380, 9MM., and. 45ACP. The 9MM. WWB was especially handy when I use to shoot my brothers Sterling semi-auto carbine. You would be surprised at how fast you could go through 3 mags with that gun.

kcshooter
June 18, 2012, 10:48 AM
Failure to feed, failure to eject, failure to fully cycle. Not the ammo, the gun.

First replace magazines with good mags. Then check extractor including tension, or replace with quality extractor like Wilson bulletproof.

That fixes about 90% of 1911 issues.

Dudemeister
June 18, 2012, 10:56 AM
I would check the magazine.

I've shot Winchester value packs, Federal, S&B, Remington, American Eagle, etc, and the only times I had repeatable problems was not because of ammo, rather it was cheap aftermarket mags.

I'm currently shooting a P99 and a Luger LP08, and both guns love the S&B, followed by the Winchester. The Remington seems OK as well. The only ammo I've had FTF's with, in the good magazines, has been the bulk Federal (Walmart stuff). But even that is few and far in between.

Get a MeGar magazine and see if you still have problems. MeGar seems to be the most consistently reliable magazine maker out there.

Sig Bill
June 18, 2012, 10:59 AM
QC issues?

These are Win PDX1 9mm 124+P

http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/1395/s5030320.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/31/s5030320.jpg/)

firesky101
June 18, 2012, 05:08 PM
come on now guys shoot .357's in their .355 all the time. Winchesters just trying to give you a little more pressure.:D

Bobson
June 18, 2012, 05:18 PM
I've never had a single issue with WWB in either 9mm or 40S&W, and its the main ammo I've been firing. This has been in a Glock 19 and Springfield XD Service (40), FWIW.

easyg
June 18, 2012, 08:49 PM
I've shot thousands of rounds of WWB and I've Never had any proble.

CmdrSlander
June 19, 2012, 02:54 AM
Went to the range today, used Federal Champion and liberally lubricated the firearm. Everything functioned flawlessly except for one FTF. Upon inspection the cartridge that failed was deformed (so I blame the ammo in this case).

Here's a tip for all M1911 owners: Liberally lubricate all contact points between slide and frame and barrel and frame before each range session. Furthermore, for flawless shooting with low quality ammo inspect each cartridge and clean/polish each one with a lubricant dipped brush (of the type one would encounter in a gun cleaning kit). Be sure to dry this ammo with a lint free cloth before shooting, leaving only a thin layer of lubricant to aid smooth feeding.

Shuler13
June 19, 2012, 06:15 AM
Here's a tip for all M1911 owners: Liberally lubricate all contact points between slide and frame and barrel and frame before each range session. Furthermore, for flawless shooting with low quality ammo inspect each cartridge and clean/polish each one with a lubricant dipped brush (of the type one would encounter in a gun cleaning kit). Be sure to dry this ammo with a lint free cloth before shooting, leaving only a thin layer of lubricant to aid smooth feeding.

That's a lot more effort than I'm willing to commit. Lube contact points I get. Lube each round. Nah

skoro
June 19, 2012, 11:56 AM
In my experience, yes.

I've shot quite a bit in 45acp and 9mm. It's dirty, but it always go bang.

tipoc
June 19, 2012, 12:13 PM
WWB ammo is generally among the best for general plinking whenever I buy it in the 50 rounds per box. But, the Winchester Bulk Ammo Value packs of 100 or more rounds I've found to be consistently sub par. The latter are often made up of ammo that did not pass the inspection that the regular 50 round boxes pass.

I know this to be the case by examining the ammo and shooting it. Do the same and you will agree.

tipoc

Ben86
June 19, 2012, 12:44 PM
QC issues?

These are Win PDX1 9mm 124+P

I've seen the same thing with some 9mm pdx1 I've bought. Some of the bullets looked deformed. Same OAL, but odd shape. I don't doubt they'll function, but if I pay a premium price I want them to be shaped uniformly. It's one of the reasons I switched to Fed HST.

I also had some .380 pdx1 with cracked cases and mis-seated bullets.

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