Any .40 swagers here? Swaging on a hornady press?


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why.kyle
June 18, 2012, 03:10 PM
Are there any swagers here that can help me?
I have been enamored by the idea of making .40 jackets out of 9mm brass ever since I saw it a few months ago.
Ive seen a few different companies that sell dies, but my big question is how feasible is it to do on a LnL classic single stage?
I plan on casting cores or cutting pre-sized wire.
Im still learning about the process so any tips, tricks or insights would be appreciated.

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Certaindeaf
June 18, 2012, 03:15 PM
Just take a wad of $100 bills and light them on fire.

bigfinger76
June 18, 2012, 03:31 PM
LOL.

why.kyle
June 18, 2012, 05:17 PM
Haha a few months ago that would of been good advice.. But I decided a while ago, it wasn't to save money, but to learn something new and something cool.

Certaindeaf
June 18, 2012, 05:25 PM
I'd go to castboolits.com and check some stuff out. They have their own stuff and then of course links.

rcmodel
June 18, 2012, 05:27 PM
I have never done it.

But I would bet swaging 9mm brass cases up to .40 cal bullet jackets is going to take much more force then your L&L press can handle.

Just swaging soft lead core half-jacket bullets on a RCBS Rock-Chucker is a pretty hefty load on the press.

rc

Certaindeaf
June 18, 2012, 05:50 PM
^
It's pretty common and easy. You insert a slug of lead into a 9mm case and then form/swage it.. it's pretty close to .40 from the getgo.

W.E.G.
June 18, 2012, 06:00 PM
castboolits thread:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=70121

David Wile
June 18, 2012, 08:11 PM
Hey Kyle,

You can swage .40 bullets using 9mm brass as you asked, but you really should pay attention to what RC Model noted above. I would not want to do it on anything lighter than a RockChucker press. There is a lot of pressure in the swaging process.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

MichaelK
June 21, 2012, 07:55 PM
I broke my Rockchucker model 2 swaging. Now I upgraded to a model 4. Noticed that the model 4 was beefer in exactly the spot where my model 2 cracked, so I guess RCBS knew about it. Most likely you'll break a single stage press the first time you use it.

I make .40 bullets with a cast core in a 9X19 jacket. I have also used a 120 gr 9mm TC for the core. This will make a very nice 180 grain hollowpoint. Here is a little trick I learned swaging with 9mm brass. The core seating punch is concave. If you reverse a core-filled case and just bump it slighly into the swaging die, you'll curl in the mouth of the case.

You just flip the seated core back in the correct direction, replace the core-seating punch with the swaging punch, and when you swage the final bullet, the jacket folds neatly inside the hollow cavity. Makes a very pretty looking bullet.
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r55/kawalekm/9mmcaseto40caliberbullet.jpg

why.kyle
June 22, 2012, 01:58 AM
I broke my Rockchucker model 2 swaging. Now I upgraded to a model 4. Noticed that the model 4 was beefer in exactly the spot where my model 2 cracked, so I guess RCBS knew about it. Most likely you'll break a single stage press the first time you use it.

I make .40 bullets with a cast core in a 9X19 jacket. I have also used a 120 gr 9mm TC for the core. This will make a very nice 180 grain hollowpoint. Here is a little trick I learned swaging with 9mm brass. The core seating punch is concave. If you reverse a core-filled case and just bump it slighly into the swaging die, you'll curl in the mouth of the case.

You just flip the seated core back in the correct direction, replace the core-seating punch with the swaging punch, and when you swage the final bullet, the jacket folds neatly inside the hollow cavity. Makes a very pretty looking bullet.
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r55/kawalekm/9mmcaseto40caliberbullet.jpg
Is the middle one in that picture an example of what you are talking about? How the brass folds over and covers the lip of the hollow point?

MichaelK
June 23, 2012, 11:22 AM
Is the middle one in that picture an example of what you are talking about? How the brass folds over and covers the lip of the hollow point?
Yes. BTW, I made these bullets with CH 101 dies. You can find them at www.ch4d.com. Be advised though that interest in swaging is picking up and there's a waiting list for die sets. Bought my first .357 set for 58$. Bought my .40 and .44 sets for 132$. Price keeps going up and up. Here's a pic of some of my other home-made bullets. Far right bullet of each set is a store-bought comparison.

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r55/kawalekm/SwagedBullets.jpg
I've made .224 bullets from 22RF brass, .357 bullets from .380 Auto brass, and 44 magnum bullets from .40S&W brass. I've cut .223 cases in half to make .35 caliber rifle bullets, and I have a .308 die set that I will eventually try making 30 caliber bullets from 5.7X28 brass. I'll get to it. If you anneal the brass red hot, it becomes soft enough to swage. If the case is larger than bullet diameter (i.e.: .223) I reduce it's diameter with a Lyman cast bullet lubesizing press. If a few thousands smaller, the lead core swells the case up to full diameter. You need a really, really stout press though to bring the case heads larger than just a few thousands.

res7s
June 23, 2012, 01:45 PM
I'd get a heavier iron or steel press. I don't think that aluminium press would hold up very well. The Lee Classic Cast will work with some mods. As MichaelK inferred get the right RC and it'll work. I'd stay away from the Redding presses. The bolts that support the linkages are unsupported on one end. You can also buy or make a heavy swaging press. The plans are on Cast Boolits. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=76514

X-Rap
June 23, 2012, 02:45 PM
I don't get the utility of bullet swaging when lead bullets are less than a dime and replacement brass is at least twice that. (new prices)
Higher performance bullets still run less than new brass. I don't know what performance you are getting in terms of expansion, consistancy and accuracy and if it just another evolution in the reloading hobby thats great, just wondering how the costs balance out.

BullFrawg
June 23, 2012, 03:00 PM
MichaelK, I know essentially nothing about reloading, but those bullets look pretty sleek. Does the curled brass affect ballistics at all?

why.kyle
June 24, 2012, 01:45 AM
I don't get the utility of bullet swaging when lead bullets are less than a dime and replacement brass is at least twice that. (new prices)
Higher performance bullets still run less than new brass. I don't know what performance you are getting in terms of expansion, consistancy and accuracy and if it just another evolution in the reloading hobby thats great, just wondering how the costs balance out.
the idea is you use range brass.. not new brass. So you can have the benefits of jacketed bullets with the cost of casting your own.

(im still learning about it so that assumption could be a little off)

Res7s.. Id love to make one, but do not have the skill or the tools. haha
but thanks for the tips on what presses to look at.. In all my searching not a single person and mentioned hornady.. and i mean no mention at all. haha. if you google swaging on a hornady press.. this thread is the first result. haha

X-Rap
June 24, 2012, 12:16 PM
I suspected that new brass wouldn't be used but had to put a figure to it and for me as a reloader replacement comes at a cost since that piece of brass has now gone down range never to be used again. Even range brass must have a value equal to 5-10 cents and given the many times it can be reused compared to the one shot in a bullet it still seems a waste. Now 22 rimfire actually seems a wonderful idea and if a quality bullet can be constructed by swagging I'm all ears.

why.kyle
June 24, 2012, 06:56 PM
Yeah I see where you are coming from. I don't shoot 9mm though.

You should really look into the .22 swaging. You really can make some quality stuff

bluetopper
June 26, 2012, 12:42 AM
I'd be a lot more interested in making 44 Mag bullets swaged from 40 cal brass. I've seen a whole thread on how to do it on another forum one time.
The whole concept is pretty neat I think.

MichaelK
June 26, 2012, 01:18 AM
Here's a pic of my 44 magnum bullets. I use a cast 40 caliber truncated cone as the core. Final weight is 245 grains with a diameter of 0.430". A store-bought Sierra JHP is on the right for reference.
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r55/kawalekm/Swaged44bullet.jpg

X-rap, you just have to ask yourself why would anyone want to bake their own bread when you can buy a loaf cheaper in the store, or why raise your own chickens when meat is cheaper in the store. I don't do these things just from dollar and cents perspective. I do it for the pleasure of knowing I can do it.

X-Rap
June 26, 2012, 10:47 AM
X-rap, you just have to ask yourself why would anyone want to bake their own bread when you can buy a loaf cheaper in the store, or why raise your own chickens when meat is cheaper in the store. I don't do these things just from dollar and cents perspective. I do it for the pleasure of knowing I can do it.

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That was my initial suspicion and if you have no use for serviceable brass it makes sense, I just wanted to see if I was missing something.

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