"Missfire, kill the the SOB"


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joneb
June 19, 2012, 01:12 AM
I was loading some test loads for my S&W 696 with Rim Rocks 180gr LTC.
I loaded 10 with 8.5gr of AA#5 after seating the bullets I noticed I had a 8.5gr charge of powder in the powder scale pan :scrutiny: I Thought I gave the charged cases a look over with the flashlight prior to seating :confused: but apparently inspector #1 had the lazy eye :o
I shook loaded rounds and then weighed them, the 1st round in the tray was suspect and I marked it.
The load in question misfired, I waited for minute and then inspected the cartridge the primer was backed out but did not lock up the gun, the bullet with a stiff crimp did not move. I later pulled the bullet the primer(WLP) ignited and there was no powder.
I think this issue was caused by complacency or the need for eyeglasses.

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bds
June 19, 2012, 01:25 AM
I Thought I gave the charged cases a look over with the flashlight prior to seating but apparently inspector #1 had the lazy eye ... pulled the bullet and there was no powder.
We are human and make mistakes whether intentionally or unintentionally (I have done both plenty).

Next step is to review the reloading process and do a root cause analysis.

Once you identified the step(s)/distraction(s) that produced the squib round, add the necessary QC step(s) to ensure your next range trip is a happy one. :D

Pit4Brains
June 19, 2012, 01:34 AM
My 686 is stainless, is the 696 blued?

I work in aircraft maintenance. I have made simple mistakes in the hangar and caught them in the hangar. You made a mistake at the bench and caught your mistake there. No harm no foul. Was that charge from the very last casing to get loaded or was that a test measurement that didn't make it into the casing somewhere in the middle of the block. When i loaded pistol years ago I wasn't nearly as critical with powder measure as I was with rifle. I can see this happening. I'm sure you wouldn't have sent another round behind that if it lodged into the barrel.

joneb
June 19, 2012, 01:43 AM
Was that charge from the very last casing to get loaded or was that a test measurement that didn't make it into the casing somewhere in the middle of the block.
It was the 1st round of ten with the 8.5gr charge.
Once you identified the step(s)/distraction(s) that produced the squib round, add the necessary QC step(s)
I hope I have ? I think this issue was caused by complacency or the need for eyeglasses.
My 686 is stainless, is the 696 blued?

The 696 is a 5 shot 3" barrel 686 bored for 44 special.

bds
June 19, 2012, 01:48 AM
So what steps will you take to ensure that a squib round won't occur again?

Answer that and you got your QC step(s). :)

joneb
June 19, 2012, 01:57 AM
So what steps will you take to ensure that a squib round won't occur again?
I am open for suggestions. I guess after doing this for 25-30 years I didn't need to pay attention :banghead: I chalk that up to complacency.
I'm fifty years old now and I am ready for eye glasses :cuss:

Pit4Brains
June 19, 2012, 02:04 AM
The 696 is a 5 shot 3" barrel 686 bored for 44 special.

Why not go with a 686 .44 MAG?

I love the full under lug S&W. My .357 has a 8 3/8 " barrel and will kill a javelina at 100+ yes. (Have a witness).
Not trying to change the subject of the thread.. or am I?

Take it with a grain of salt, chalk it up to experience and just don't do it again...

joneb
June 19, 2012, 02:24 AM
Answer that and you got your QC step(s).
bds,
I had time to reflect on this a bit. I came home from work and had these 44spl cases already prepped and primed, I thought if I could load these up quickly I'd have time to go test them.
thanks,
jj

bds
June 19, 2012, 02:48 AM
I'm fifty years old now and I am ready for eye glasses
I am in my 40's and got bi-focals last years and went to progressive this year! :cuss: I became a believer when my shot groups shrank after getting the progressive lens - Thank goodness for technology.

I guess being able to see is better than being blind. :rolleyes:

At least I don't have arthritis of fingers and my hands don't shake ... yet! :D

ArchAngelCD
June 19, 2012, 02:59 AM
Why not go with a 686 .44 MAG?
The M686 is an L frame and is chambered in .357 Magnum only. S&W revolver chambered for the .44 Magnum are N frames. I'm a little confused at what you're saying???

cfullgraf
June 19, 2012, 03:00 AM
bds,
I had time to reflect on this a bit. I came home from work and had these 44spl cases already prepped and primed, I thought if I could load these up quickly I'd have time to go test them.
thanks,
jj

There is your answer, As the old saying goes, "Haste makes waste".

Just learn from the oops and be more careful in the future.

joneb
June 19, 2012, 03:18 AM
We are human and make mistakes whether intentionally or unintentionally
I'm glad this transgression is forgivable :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccqdEhytKOk

1858
June 19, 2012, 11:30 AM
jibjab, I don't have anything to add other than thanks for the homage to "Unforgiven". That scene has to be one of the best in any western.

Will Munny: I was lucky in the order, but I've always been lucky when it comes to killin' folks.

:D

homatok
June 19, 2012, 01:23 PM
Jibjab---Just be thankful that you did'nt double charge one of the cases, leaving one empty. You said (or appeared to say) that you were in somewhat of a hurry to get the loading done. Glad you are OK! A wake up call to slow down and double check everything for sure!

rcmodel
June 19, 2012, 01:34 PM
or the need for eyeglasses.Or the need to use loading blocks.

Charge all the cases, then look in them all and compare powder charges.

Then place bullets in the cases and seat them.

Going from the scale to the press one case at a time is a sure way to eventually do what you did.

Or worse, double charge one.

rc

gamestalker
June 19, 2012, 03:00 PM
+1 on the use of loading blocks. By not using blocks you are skipping an entire QC step. I'm a bit older than you and have been working the bench for 30+ yrs. with never a questionable load. And this isn't because I'm Mr. perfect, but because I take steps to prevent such questionable mis-haps.
GS

1858
June 19, 2012, 05:35 PM
Or the need to use loading blocks.


Or a loading block that rotates with each pull of the handle!

rcmodel
June 19, 2012, 05:37 PM
I don't trust them either unless I can see every charge in every case!!

rc

1858
June 19, 2012, 05:52 PM
I don't trust them either unless I can see every charge in every case!!


Some form of detect whether it's visual or mechanical is a good thing for sure. I've relied on the visual method for the last 17 years using progressive presses to load many tens of thousands of rounds without a single issue. I use Redding 10X and BR30 powder measures with Hornady case activated linkages on my progressives and I really don't need to do a visual check. If there's powder in the hopper and a case below the powder measure, as the ram goes up, the correct amount of powder goes in the case ... no ifs, ands or buts!!

336A
June 19, 2012, 06:21 PM
The technique that has worked for me is to place all of the primed brass in the loading block upsidedown, save for the one that is going to get charged with powder first. Charge that case with powder and immediately seat and crimp a bullet, then turn another case right side up and repeat.

I do this whether I'm dropping powder from the measure or hand weighing each charge. I know it is slow but I don't get ahead of myself either.

jr_roosa
June 19, 2012, 08:43 PM
I put everything in a loading block with an empty row. As I do each step, the case gets moved up into the empty row. When I'm done with a step the block gets rotated 180 deg and I start over moving each case up.

If I'm doing load development, I have each 10 or 5 cases in a row, move each one up as it gets charged, and then seat bullets for the set, which get the case head marked and put in the box before I adjust the powder meter for the next set.

It's really hard to miss a case or double up when getting distracted if you have to physically move the case at each step.

-J.

WALKERs210
June 19, 2012, 08:52 PM
I no longer re-load, but guess with prices going up I might need to reinvest in new gear. Anyhow, back years ago I would load 12ga shot shells for myself and a few friends for turkey hunting. When at loading table I closed the door to my room and focused 100% attention to what I was doing. One night my wife came in and started a conversation, after she left room I went back to work. That is where I made the mistake, 20-25 rounds loaded and ready to go except for the primer and most of the powder under the loading press. After that I never allowed anything to interrupter what I was doing. It happens.

joneb
June 19, 2012, 11:28 PM
Or the need to use loading blocks.

I use a 50 rnd loading block, all of the cases are placed in the block with the head stamp up only when the case is charged the case mouth is up. I then inspect the charged cases in the block prior to seating the bullet.
I'm still surprised that the primer did not budge the bullet.

oldreloader
June 20, 2012, 12:35 AM
I don't trust them either unless I can see every charge in every case!!

rc
Yep! That's why I like my LCT. It's about as progressive as I care to get.

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