rossi m92 jamming


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snakeman
June 19, 2012, 10:14 AM
I just bought a rossi 92 357 and the thing just won't feed 357 ammo well. It seems the cartridge is ramping up at such a steep angle that the bullet is binding nose first on the top of the inside of the chamber. Also, the rim of the case is binding on the cartridge guides :fire:. Can you help?

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greyling22
June 19, 2012, 11:01 AM
I had a similar issue I was able to fix. Mine would do 357, but not 38. The best way is to buy the DVD from stevesgunz (google it) but it kind of pricey, I tried to borrow it from a couple members, but they weren't in a sharing mood. The information is out there without the DVD, but I lost the links to it. I think the solution had to do with shimming the cartridge guides with some guess and check work.

hopefully someone will come along and give you better help.

snakeman
June 19, 2012, 11:12 AM
thanks greyling

ffg
June 19, 2012, 11:20 AM
Now this is strictly my own personal opinion but I feel that the early 92's were based on a 32-20 Winchester. I was able to get the first one to feed by reducing the OAL on the 357s. The second one I had i was able to find a newer style feed rails and that really helped. I don't think that company is in business any more so that's not much help. Hopefully you reload and can tailor a load to fit. I was using a truncated cone style lead bullet.

Brian

snakeman
June 19, 2012, 11:24 AM
Part of the point of getting a 357 was that it's cheap to shoot and I don't want to have to reload for it. I appreciate your input but I would like it to feed factory ammo and if it won't as is I'll just have to modify some things. It feed 38's pretty well so I'm not sure what's going on.

greyling22
June 19, 2012, 12:51 PM
This is how I sorted out my issue. http://marauder.homestead.com/files/Rossi_92_cartridge_guide.htm

if you google your problem, you will run intoa lot of references for nate kiowa jones. he is the stevezguns guy. the rossi guru. I also pulled this text out of a forum for you. might be helpful. I also found reference to a too light ejector spring causing issues with 357's.

"I had one of those rifles a few years back and it was a tad fussy about the ammo it would feed. OAL was the biggest factor followed by nose shape.

Those HP's you are trying to feed might be a bit blunt and seem to be catching on the chamber lip as it tries to feed. A gentle rounding/breaking of the lower chamber edge might be all that is needed to let it slip by without gouging. I didn't do this to my 45, but the 38/357 version needed the deburring to feed everything well. It would jam similar to yours with the longer 357's before the chamber work.

If you don't feel like playing with the edge of the chamber, I'd suggest trying different ammo and bullet types to see if you can find something that feeds well all the time.

Also, make sure you are fully racking the lever forward to get the lifter to raise the round as far as it will go. Some guns need to be worked at a certain pace to feed properly too. Too slow or too fast and they will choke. Try different tempo's with the lever and see if it helps."



and this is how I slicked mine up. I did about half of what this guy did. http://www.gunreports.com/special_reports/long_guns/rossi-model-92-lever-action-gunsmithing2403-1.html

snakeman
June 19, 2012, 05:26 PM
Well I figured out what the problem is. The cartridge guides aren't holding up the rim of the cartridge. AKA I obviously need to shim the right side cartridge guide and see if that helps. I wasn't able to see this before due to bad lighting, but fortunately I found it this morning before I left for work.

BCRider
June 19, 2012, 06:06 PM
You'll find that the bullets need to have a nice rounded ogive shape. "Fat" and heavy round nose or SWC bullets don't feed work a hoot.

flightsimmer
June 19, 2012, 06:34 PM
Hornady makes a 140-gn .357 FTX ammo made just for lever action rifles for hunting, it has a plastic tip. And then there's a 38 special FTX.
There made for tubuler magazines.
They work super great in mine.
Usually SWC do not work all that well in the '92 but some do.
What they do is wedge in the chamber as they feed into it.

snakeman
June 19, 2012, 07:17 PM
I'm having the best luck with blazer brass and fiocchi xtp ammo. No SWC's here. Apparently as the cartridge slides up into the chamber, the bolt keeps pushing straight onto the now crooked and unsupported cartridge rim. This creates a bind as the chamber is holding the bullet at one end while the bolt is essentially trying to bend the cartridge at the rim end. I figure, if I adjust the guide rail to support the underside of the rim of the cartridge the problem will be solved. I'll tend to this and see if it helps.

snakeman
June 19, 2012, 08:04 PM
Ok I cut some paper and shimmed the cartridge guide. While I was at it I polished the guide slots and the under side of the guide where the feed ramp pushes the cartridge through. All this did improve function quite a bit, but it's still far from chambering smoothly. So, are there any other suggestions for that?

eastbank
June 19, 2012, 09:39 PM
several years ago i bought a rossi 92 in 44 mag and it was a total mess with all kinds of feeding problems,after spending countless hours trying to fix the feeding problems i just gave up and sold it. i think alot of the problems were caused because of the strait walled 44mag case and the 357mag suffers from the same problem. if the timing and cartridge guilds are not just right the feeding problems start. the 92 actions were desinged to work with a tapered case,the tapered cases seem to funnel right into the chambers. i bought a rossi 92 in 44-40 and have never had a problem of any kind. eastbank.

snakeman
June 20, 2012, 12:03 AM
Looking at how your 44-40 is feeding in your pictures, I get the feeling that my gun is definitely trying to feed the ammo at way too steep of an angle. If you compare the pictures you can see that the problem with mine is that the case head is not coming up to mate up with the case mouth or bullet. Do I need to replace a part or two or do some fitting.

Tommygunn
June 20, 2012, 12:21 AM
several years ago i bought a rossi 92 in 44 mag and it was a total mess with all kinds of feeding problems,after spending countless hours trying to fix the feeding problems i just gave up and sold it. i think alot of the problems were caused because of the strait walled 44mag case and the 357mag suffers from the same problem.

I have a Browning B-92 in .44magnum. I never had any problem with it feeding ammo .... so I don't think it has anything to do with straightwall cases.
.44-40 is either a slight truncated case or slight bottleneck, depending upon who is making the brass. The overall dimensions are very similar to .44 magnum if you just examine two rounds side by side, but of course dimensionally they're different. But not so different as to cause feeding problems. A lot of Winchester model 1892s originally made in .44-40 were rechambered in .44 magnum when that round came out in the 1950s and any feeding problems would have shown up then.
Snakeman's rifle must be "off" in some way to cause the problems he's having. I can't really diagnose his particular difficulty via the interwebz, but I'm fairly sure it has nothing to do with straightwalled cases.

stevekozak
June 20, 2012, 08:38 AM
I can't be of much help. Mine has fed everything I have put in it, .357s of all shapes and sizes, and .38 all shapes and sizes ( well, no full wadcutters, I really do doubt that they would feed) Watching this thread with interest, though, in case I develop problems down the road. Good luck, and I hope you get it fixed, because these are fun little guns!!

eastbank
June 20, 2012, 10:09 AM
the japanese 92 browning is a whole nether ball game,the qualty is top shelf,with the bugs taken care of.the rossi,s are just not that well made(take one apart and look at the inards,not well finished) and the price reflectes it,a used 92 browning in very good condition will bring twice what a new 92 rossie sales for. some thing is not right with the posters 92 rossie, i would take it back to where i bought it to see if they will take care of it. my own problems with the 44mag i bought was just not worth the effort to make it work. if you pay good money for a new rifle it should not take much to have it work like it should. my rossi 92 in 44-40 was bought new,but was new old stock with out the safety on the bolt and from day one it has fed any 44-40 i tried to run thru it with out a bobble.i,m not sure how many times rossi has been sold in the past,but i think tauras has them now. eastbank.

Carl N. Brown
June 20, 2012, 11:14 AM
I have a Rossi Puma in .357 as sold by Legacy Sports eight years back. It feeds factory .357 158gr softnose perfectly. It feeds .38 Spl 125gr JHP perfectly. Wadcutters are a problem, but otherwise I wonder if the problem with Rossi 1892s is more particular ammo-related than the fault of the gun, or did I just luck up on my gun or my choice of feed for it?

snakeman
June 20, 2012, 11:28 AM
well I've tried 4 different bullet shapes and two different calibers. It feeds 38 special just fine and some 357 somewhat ok. But the ammo I'm using has the bullet shape most are recommending or at least has been similar.

ghitch75
June 20, 2012, 11:51 AM
i just sold my 92 in 357 yesterday.....it would shoot and feed anything.....only reason i sold it as i have a 92 in 45Colt and just didn't shoot it any more.....my 45 will eat anything too....these are from 200gr to 325gr.....i would send it in to Rossi.....

http://i45.tinypic.com/2vxp2r9.jpg

Live2offroad
June 20, 2012, 12:09 PM
Rossi offers a pretty darn good warranty.. I'd send it back and let them sort it out.

-Peter

snakeman
June 20, 2012, 12:20 PM
I might send it in, but I've already polished the cartridge guides. I wonder if they would take it back. I would like to get the same gun back as it has an excellent trigger and beautiful stock. Believe it or not, when there isn't a cartridge in there the action is pretty darn slick.

ghitch75
June 20, 2012, 12:23 PM
they'll fix yours and send it back....

BCRider
June 20, 2012, 01:09 PM
Have you seen the pages that can be found on tuning up a Rossi '92?

http://marauder.homestead.com/files/Rossitune.htm

The last thing I did to my own recently was to very slightly flare the lower edge of the chamber so rounds would not ride up on the edges of the fairly narrow center only flare as it came. This was the last thing that aided my own Rossi in more easily chambering rounds with less jamming.

Note that because of how the hinged elevator angles up with a sharp snap at the end of the lever travel you want to avoid really flicking your wrist during the lever cycle. I found that I can cycle it fast but I need to do it without any "flick" to my wrist or the fingers in the loop. If I simply use my arm to cycle it then that slows and smoothens the action of the cycle and avoids the last instant snapping up of the elevator toggle action from having too much speed. If I don't do this and instead let my lever loop fingers flick during the travel I can still get the occasional "stovepipe" with the new round sticking up at the sky.

Now all that is at "cowboy action" speeds. If I slow down the lever cycling just a little my slicked up Rossi 92 loads both .357Mag and .38Spl rounds slick as a fish sliding around on a wet board. They chamber without the slightest glitch and the most noticable thing to be felt is the slightest "click" at the last moment as the extractor snaps over the rim.

But it took me a few trips into the action to work on all the steps outlined. I went into the Rossi's guts with the idea that it's easier to take off a little more later on than to go too far right off the bat.

A spring kit for the Rossis that includes a new ejector spring and a new spring for the elevator toggle is a wise way to start out. The ejector spring is one of the biggest sources of notchiness and roughness in the 92's action. Along with installing the softer ejector spring I found that going over the ejector and tracks in the bolt that the ejector runs through with a small fine stone and deburring all the edges made a very noticable difference. You don't want to round them over. Simply stone the sharpness and any burrs off so you can't feel any catching when you pick at the edges with a fingernail. They should all still look nicely "square" to the eye despite the slight chamfering/rounding from the stoning.

The very slight additional flaring I did to the mouth of the chamber has to be done with care. You want to give the cartridge a little more room to "funnel" into the chamber. But you don't want to create a lack of support for the casing. All this means that you're working with about the first .030 to .040 of the chamber's mouth. The only tool I could get into this spot with was one of the small half round jeweler's files. Even then I needed to glue the handle into the end of a piece of fiberglass tube to extend the handle. Pressure for the cutting was provided by a finger from my other hand passed down from above and pushing lightly on the flat backside of the file. After the small amount of shaping was done to turn the rather V like existing flare into more of a U shape I taped some very fine 600 wetordry sandpaper around the end of a piece of wooden dowel and worked it in the same manner as the file to polish the added flaring. So little metal was removed in doing this that the whole job took almost no more time to do than to read this description. Even though this added flaring probably only lowered the lower portion of the mouth by about .007 to .010 and extended into the chamber about .040 or so it made a big difference to how it swallows the bullets. Right away I noticed I was no longer getting any "wedgies" where the bullet jams in the mouth. The only failures to chamber I've had since this last step have been the "stovepipes" of the fresh rounds on the elevator from flicking the lever during the loading cycle.

snakeman
June 20, 2012, 02:19 PM
Thanks, that's very helpful.

wriggly
June 20, 2012, 03:18 PM
snakeman.....pick up some S&B FMJ .357 rounds. They are the slickest feeding through the Rossi's of any of the ammo available. The metal jackets will polish up the chamber mouth pretty quickly.

I have found that "Independance Brand" 158 gr JSP work excellent as well. The have a good bullet shape, and a nice rounded crimp. So does the Federal 158 gr JSP.

You will get instant gratification with the S&B rounds though.

snakeman
June 20, 2012, 05:25 PM
I really don't think its an ammo thing. I just took the thing apart and polished the carrier and cartridge guides. I think I have a faulty carrier. It's causing the cartridge to tip up too much in the front and the back doesn't have time to catch up. This causes a bind that only gets worse the longer the ammo is.

MCgunner
June 20, 2012, 05:27 PM
You'll find that the bullets need to have a nice rounded ogive shape. "Fat" and heavy round nose or SWC bullets don't feed work a hoot.

Keith SWC is all I shoot in mine, feed smoothly. I never sent it to Steve's Guns, either.

joecil
June 20, 2012, 05:33 PM
I don't recommend sending a gun to Steve's Gunz either but do recommend getting his CD, especially if you have never broken one down before. That CD is worth its weight in gold and got mine as part of his kit. The only thing not in his kit is the safety removal piece, which I also added. I didn't do cut any springs as is one of his suggestions but did use his replacement spring which worked fine after I did the rest he suggested. Mine is smooth as silk now and only problem is if the total cartridge length in my 45 Colt is with in 1.6 to 1.5 in COL.

snakeman
June 20, 2012, 06:47 PM
My 454 casull didn't give me near the amount of trouble this thing is giving me.

snakeman
June 20, 2012, 11:41 PM
Does anybody have any idea of how to tweek the carrier/lifter so that it will feed reliably? I now know that this or the ejector being to sharp is the culprit.

wriggly
June 21, 2012, 02:12 PM
I really don't think its an ammo thing. I just took the thing apart and polished the carrier and cartridge guides. I think I have a faulty carrier. It's causing the cartridge to tip up too much in the front and the back doesn't have time to catch up. This causes a bind that only gets worse the longer the ammo is.
Alrighty then......I had the same problems with mine when it was new. I dont have any problems anymore, and I didnt muck around with the lifter or cartridge guides.

Maybe I should have mentioned that I was a gunsmith back in the 1980's, and I also tune and slick 92's for friends and aquaintances........unimpressed? Ok, just soldier on, and I am sure you will get it worked out.

ghitch75
June 21, 2012, 02:16 PM
snakeman could be like me as my weapons should eat anything and if they won't fix them so they will....

snakeman
June 21, 2012, 08:22 PM
I just don't want to have a 357 rifle that only shoots 38 special.

snakeman
June 23, 2012, 05:10 PM
going to send it back to rossi

spence
June 25, 2012, 12:41 AM
please let us know how this works out . I've been having trouble also. thanks spence

ifit
June 25, 2012, 06:25 AM
i have a rossi ranch hand pretty much identical except mine has an 11" barrel and short stock registered as a pistol. mine feeds 38sp with no problems what so ever, but 357 gets hanged up almost all the time, but what i do is once it gets jammed i simply swing the lever back and forth till it feeds. what i noticed by doing this all the time, its starting to feed much better than previously.

heres a video of bigdaddyhoffman, on the ranch hand with problms feeding 357 and his gunsmith found what the problem was and fixed it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIWciS1fSZo

snakeman
June 26, 2012, 11:30 PM
thanks, It should have shipped out yesterday. I'll post a range report upon its return.

skeptical_in_Ohio
November 9, 2013, 06:56 PM
Any update on this?

I just got one of these rifles and it seems to have the same issue (will feed 38 well but not 357). Is it back, and does it now feed 357 reliably?

I'm thinking I'd like the chintzy little bolt-mounted safety removed, but was hoping to shoot it some before that. If it isn't fixed from Rossi in a timely fashion I may just go ahead and send mine to Steve's Gunz for action and bolt work (mainly to remove that safety).

shafter
November 9, 2013, 07:24 PM
I can't be of much help. Mine has fed everything I have put in it, .357s of all shapes and sizes, and .38 all shapes and sizes ( well, no full wadcutters, I really do doubt that they would feed) Watching this thread with interest, though, in case I develop problems down the road. Good luck, and I hope you get it fixed, because these are fun little guns!!

This ^^^^^ I love how mine will feed literally anything I feed it in 357 or 38. I must have gotten lucky.

stressed
November 9, 2013, 08:20 PM
Try graphite lube on areas of the feed ramp and cartridge guides.

skeptical_in_Ohio
November 9, 2013, 11:19 PM
I will do that, thanks.

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