7.7 jap ammo?


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jon1996
February 21, 2004, 04:02 AM
hello,
i found a box of ammo, it is 7.7 jap what kind of firearm shoots this? it looks alot like 8mm mauser, anyone know?
thanks,
jon

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Snowdog
February 21, 2004, 06:59 AM
I believe that would primarily be the Japanese Arisaka type 99, possibly for the type 38 as well (but I'm by no means an expert, could be wrong).

I'm under the impression the type 38 was of 6.5 Jap, but it could have been chambered for the 7.7 as well.

Anyway, don't try putting those through your k98 or m48. :D

10mmshooter
February 21, 2004, 08:20 AM
One of the guys I work with has a rifle that is chambered for that round. He said that the gun packs a wallop when fired, but is very accurate. Also, he buys the ammo from a guy locally, and says it's very expensive due to the limited supply. I wouldn't know, as I have never tried to track any down myself.

Tony Williams
February 21, 2004, 09:03 AM
If you're looking to buy stuff bear in mind that there were three different Japanese 7.7mm rifle/MG rounds: the 7.6x56R (the same as the .303 British), the 7.7x58SR (semi-rimless) and the 7.7x58 (rimless).

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website (http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk) and Discussion forum (http://forums.delphiforums.com/autogun/messages/)

Mike Irwin
February 21, 2004, 09:57 AM
I'm going to guess and say that you have a box of ammo made by Norma, to the best of my knowledge the only commercial maker of 7.7 Arisaka ammo.

It's fired in the Type 99 rifle. As Tony notes there were 3 7.7 Japanese rounds (logistical nightmare!), but as far as I know only the 7.7x58 (no rim) was ever chambered in Japanese rifles or loaded commercially after WW II.

Unfortunately, the Type 99 rifles can vary wildly in quality, from pretty good to downright frightening. If you find one, have a gunsmith give it a clean bill of health before firing it.


Good to see you again, Tony! Guy still have the discussion boards up at warships1.com?

I've not been over there in quite some time.

MuzzleBlast
February 21, 2004, 10:29 AM
I understand that it is not terribly difficult to make cases for 7.7 Jap from .30-'06 brass. The case head dimensions are nearly the same. The Japs were emulating the .303 Brit round in the design of the 7.7.

Tony Williams
February 21, 2004, 11:03 AM
Actually, the 7.7x56R WAS the .303 British - it was acquired by the Japanese Navy along with the Vickers and Lewis aircraft guns which were still in service at the start of WW2.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website (http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk) and Discussion forum (http://forums.delphiforums.com/autogun/messages/)

Tony Williams
February 21, 2004, 11:04 AM
Hi Mike - yep, Warships1 is still going.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website (http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk) and Discussion forum (http://forums.delphiforums.com/autogun/messages/)

OEF_VET
February 21, 2004, 11:49 AM
If you're going to shoot 7.7 Jap, you really should start reloading. Mike Irwin is correct, in that Norma is the only commercial manufacturer of the round. The normal selling price for a box of 20 rounds is between $35 - $40. If you pick up an inexpensive press and dies (all told about $60 from Lee), you can start reloading and save a ton of money. I estimate that it costs me about 15 - 20 cents to reload each round of 7.7 Jap. That's quite a savings. If you reload 100 rounds, you'll pay about $20, versus $200 for the same amount of commercial ammo. Even figuring the cost of the press and dies, that first 100 rounds is still only $80.

A pound of powder will last quite awhile if all you're loading is 7.7 Jap.

You already have one box of ammo, so you have 20 rounds of brass to start with.

The bullets can be bought from www.midwayusa.com fairly inexpensively.

Primers can be found for less than $2 per hundred.

Frank

Snowdog
February 21, 2004, 01:02 PM
If you're bent against reloading, Graf and Son offers the 7.7 Jap (among many other hard-to-find military cartridges) loaded with Hornady components.

The price is a bit better than Norma, but still pricy.
150gr SP 20/$19.99 (when in stock).

http://www.grafs.com/bulkByBagQty.cfm/startItem/1

Bainx
February 21, 2004, 02:12 PM
Here is another source of 7.7 made from 30-06 brass:
http://www.floridaammotraders.com/ammo.html#77J

As stated above, be sure a gunsmith checks your Arisaka rifle.
Mine has vicous recoil and the peep sight makes it quite accurate.

jon1996
February 21, 2004, 04:22 PM
thanks for all the replys:
so does anyone have a picture of one of these rifles that shoot the 7.7, and about how much do they cost, and are they c&r eligible,
thanks,
jon

Jim K
February 21, 2004, 07:43 PM
They would have C&R status, being over 50 years old.

Prices vary and there is no source of Type 99's (or Type 38 in 6.5 either) in quantity, as neither has ever appeared on the surplus market.

Many thousands of both models were brought back by GI's and they turn up from time to time in gun shops and at gun shows. Prices on the Type 99 range from $100 or so for a butchered one (all too common) to $300+ for an original one in good shape.

7.7 cases can be made from .30-'06 cases, but the base diameter is a bit too small. This usually gives no problem, but repeated full length resizing will weaken the case, so neck sizing only is the best practice. Recoil of the 7.7 is no greater than that of the .30-'06 and quite a bit less than that of the 7.9mm Mauser with 196 grain bullet.

While the Type 99 design is very strong, quality deteriorated during the war, and very late ones with crude bolts, fixed peep rear sights and wooden butt plates should be avoided except for collecting.

WARNING: There are Japanese training rifles seen from time to time that are meant only for firing blanks. AFAIK, all use the 6.5 blank and 7.7 ammo won't fit, but avoid any rifles with tiny or no locking lugs, a single piece cast receiver tang, and a smooth bore (again except for collection).

Jim

joab
February 22, 2004, 11:55 AM
check here (http://www.surplusrifle.com/arisaka/index.asp)


or here (http://www.oldrifles.com/japanese.htm)

BrocLuno
February 11, 2011, 11:19 PM
I used to shoot Kinematics Research 7.7mm JAP and it was great ammo. reasonably priced and all, but their plant blew up in january. It's really too bad. they lost one employee and all their tooling. They made the best 7.7 short of Norma and it was made in the USA. Hope they get back on their feet?

Snowdog
February 12, 2011, 03:33 AM
BrocLuno, just out of curiosity, how did you come across this thread?

Sport45
February 12, 2011, 10:49 AM
I have a T99 Arisaka that my dad brought home after WWII. It's a neat gun and fun to shoot.

That said, I wouldn't buy one because I had a box of 7.7jap ammo. Especially if the ammo could be somebody's unknown reload. It's the kind of rifle you have to go out of your way to find ammo for, not the other way around. You'd be much better off buying a milsurp rifle that shoots a more common cartridge. Think Mauser. ;)

PapaG
February 12, 2011, 11:20 AM
7.7 Japanese, which was my first rifle takes a .312-.313 diameter bullet. Cases should NOT be made from 30-06 as the heads are quite a bit smaller in diameter and can split or seperate from overexpansion. There were a bunch of smiths making the 7.7 to 30-06 conversion in the fifties and sixties but you don't see much of that now.

Blow up tests after WWII with the Jap, Mauser and Springfield showed that a Jap in good shape will take anything the Springfield or Mauser will....just be warned that there were trainer rifles made with cast iron receivers, not meant to be fired...supposedly with the tang not part of the receiver. Don't know for sure on that.

Type 38 was 6.5, type 99 was 7.7. Norma brass lasts a long time..good thing 'cause it is expensive. I'm still on my original three boxes but have not loaded any of them more than four or five times. Mine gives about five inches at 100 with issue sights and Sierra .312 dia 150 soft points. Better eyes or better sights will do better. Bores were hard chromed.

We have one of the "last ditch" 6.5s in the shop.....unfinished wood, unpolished metal, a stamped welded on rear sight, wood butt plate....all made in the last days of the war when manpower and material were running short.

Motega
February 12, 2011, 11:28 AM
I have an Arisaka my grandfather brought home from the Pacific theater after they disarmed the Japs in Korea. My father gave me a carbine version that I have no emotional attachment to. I'd be willing to trade the carbine for something if anyone out there is collecting them- I can't say much about condition because I haven't had a gunsmith look it over.
The emperor's chrysanthemum is still intact on the carbine.
Side note, the one brought home from WWII has the chrysanthemum scratched off- SUPER cool piece of history- the Japs did this to save face as everything with the logo belonged to the emperor and they didn't want it falling into the hands of an enemy.

BrocLuno
February 13, 2011, 08:35 PM
Snowdog - I found this thread while looking at stuff on 7.7mm ammo. Rather than start another, I figured I'd just up-date an old one. Too bad about the Kinematics Research plant.

Motega - The carbine is interesting. Pm me and we'll talk.

I'll be reloading as ammo is scarce too often :( But the rifles are fun to shoot :)

Sport45
February 13, 2011, 09:03 PM
I didn't realize this was a necro-thread. My comments are certainly too late to be of any help to the OP...

A new thread would have been appropriate for the recently changed topic.

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