beginner and need help please 9mm/223/3006


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wolverine_173
June 20, 2012, 02:34 PM
I plan on reloading mainly 9mm but also 223 and 30 06 down the road.

here is my newest plan
https://kempfgunshop.com//index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=194&category_id=190&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=41
Its the kempf breechlock challenger, i would purchase the pistol version so i would get the auto disk powder measure instead of the perfect powder. So do you think this will work for both pistol and rifle?

few questions

Will the auto disk powder measure work for pistol and rifle? i believe i would need to purchase the double disk kit for rifle correct?

it comes with a lee pacesetter 3 die set will that work for 9mm or do i need the 4 die delux set? does the 3 die include a crimp? supposably i need to crimp 9mm. does the pacesetter let you drop the powder through the top witht the auto disk powder measure?

what powder primers and bullets should i get for 9mm? just for plinking

will i need to trim my rifle ammo?
what dies should i get for 30 06 and 223.

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ranger335v
June 20, 2012, 03:12 PM
I can't answer all of your questions but I can some:

Avoid quick-die change gimmics, it only takes about 45 seconds to swap dies normally and it's CHEEP!

That press will do all handgun and most rifle reloading quite well.

Get any standard rifle die set that is labeled for your cartridge. IF you later decide to add a measure of complexity to your reloading that will be the time to obtain optional neck sizing or crimper dies.

Unless Lee has changed their three die pistol die sets since I got mine, the seater will also crimp. All your crimper does is remove the small amout of case mouth flare you used to let bullets seat cleanly anyway, it's not very demanding to do that.

Lee's Disc powder measure is basically a pistol measure and intended for use on a progressive or turret press (any measure used on a single stage is an unneeded PITA). It's limited in the max charge you can drop so you're not likely to be satisfied with it for the -06. I suggest you get the Perfect Powder Measure and its bench stand instead, it's much easier to use a measure on a stand and you'll really like the ability to dial in exactly the charge you want to use without fooling with multiple fixed size disc holes.

You won't need to "trim your ammo". You will likely to need to trim your cases if you get more than two-three loads from them tho. Lee's simple/inexpensive case trimmer tools do an excellant job.

wolverine_173
June 20, 2012, 03:23 PM
so if i get the rifle kit it will come with the perfect powder measure, will that also work for the 9mm?

john16443
June 20, 2012, 03:42 PM
few questions

Will the auto disk powder measure work for pistol and rifle? i believe i would need to purchase the double disk kit for rifle correct?

The Auto Disk will work for both pistol and rifle. When you do decide to load for rifle, then get another set of disks to allow you to reach the charge weights (grains) of your rifle loads if the largest hole won't get you there in a single disk.

it comes with a lee pacesetter 3 die set will that work for 9mm or do i need the 4 die delux set? does the 3 die include a crimp? supposably i need to crimp 9mm. does the pacesetter let you drop the powder through the top witht the auto disk powder measure?

As mentioned, the 3 die set will work as the third die is a combo seat/crimp. I believe all Lee expanding dies allow for powder drop through the center. The descriptions and information on the Lee site should verify this.

what powder primers and bullets should i get for 9mm? just for plinking

A good one stop shop for reloading components may be Powder Valley Inc. for powder and primer and plinking bullets. I don't reload rifle, so not much help there. Powder for 9mm - W231 or HP38 (same) are good general powders to start with. Lots of published information with 9mm and this powder. 9mm will take small pistol primers, no magnum pistol primer required. Just about any brand will do, but there have been sporadic reports of fail to fire instances with the Russian Wolf or Tula primers.

Bullets for plinking can be lead (cheapest), plated, or FMJ. Preceision Delta 115gr RN are probably the cheapest full metal jacket bullets. Plated bullets from Berry's, X-Treme, or Rainier are also favorites.


John

john16443
June 20, 2012, 03:49 PM
so if i get the rifle kit it will come with the perfect powder measure, will that also work for the 9mm?
To answer the question posed, yes the Perfect Powder measure is used for both pistol and rifle.

I disagree with the suggestion to get a separate Perfect Powder measure with this kit. Use the auto disk that is provided to start your 9mm reloading, and when you move up to rifle, get a double disk kit and you're done.

TheCracker
June 20, 2012, 04:22 PM
I've have that press and it does quite well. All I use it for now is my rifle loads that I am checking each charge for.

In my opinion spend a tad more and get the lee classic turret. Especially since you said mainly for 9mm. It will do your 3006 very well and make pistol loading WAY FASTER. You can take the indexing rod out and use the press as a single stage at first to learn the ropes.

It took me about a year (after I started loading) to get the turret press and if I had it to do over agin I would have just bough the classic turret to start out with. It is defiantly worth the extra money IMO. There is a reason it is so popular.

wolverine_173
June 20, 2012, 04:27 PM
does the w in front of 231 mean winchester?

rcmodel
June 20, 2012, 04:40 PM
Yes.
http://www.wwpowder.com/pistol.html

rc

Lost Sheep
June 20, 2012, 05:22 PM
Talk to Sue Kempf and get her advice.

By all means, before you make a final decision, get a loading manual and read the early chapters to learn the loading process. It will give you the knowledge you need to evaluate the equipment questions AND evaluate the answers you will get from the internet.

If you will load more that a couple hundred 9mm at a sitting, the Lee Classic Turret might be a better bet. Just a thought.

For the pistol die 3-die vs 4-die question, if you are going to do single stage, I would not waste time with the 4-die set. It would increase your press time by 33% over the 3-die set to very little real advantage. You can always add the 4th die later if you want. The 3 dies in the 4-die set are the same as the 3-die set.

The Auto-Disk is designed to mount on top of the second die in the pistol 3-die set and be operated automatically by the case pushing into the die (though it can be operated manually while mounted on a stand). The Perfect Powder Measure is designed to be mounted on a stand and operated manually.

Many people operate the powder measure by dropping a powder charge into the pan of their scale and weighing each charge (and trickling powder into the pan until the precise desired weight is in the pan). These are mostly rifle shooters interested in maximum accuracy. One can even do this with powder dippers/scoops. It is a personal preference.

Rifle casings (that is, bottlenecked cases) get longer from being fired and reloaded, so need to be trimmed occasionally (or discarded, which is a waste). Straight-walled cases generally don't get longer. Indeed, some get shorter (probably from the fact that they headspace on the case mouth).

Read up. Go to your local libray and check out an older copy of The ABC's of Reloading. The older editions(I am told) are better than the newer ones. Ask Sue for advice.

Lost Sheep

jcwit
June 20, 2012, 05:33 PM
Not much to add here, however I would opt for the Perfect Powder Measure as an addition, you'll find uses for it. Also get the Pro disk measure, if you don't you'll know why when the screws strip out in the hopper.

The press you mention will do the job you want, but in the long run most seem to like the Lee turrent press better, myself, I prefer 2 single stage presses mounted side by side but thats just me.

ranger335v
June 20, 2012, 05:37 PM
Ref. the double disc measure, sure it will 'work' for rifle but it won't work very easily for large charges. Nor can it be adjusted between the stepped increments the discs allow and just getting close to what the user wants may require several disassembly/reposition experiments.

I would much prefer the iron/steel construction of the Classic Turret over the older Turret press or Challenger single stage but that wasn't the original question. Lee's optional auto-index turret feature makes them much faster than a single stage or any other turret press. Additional easy-swap turrets are no more costly than bushings so having a seperate head set up for each cartridge is practical.

Josh45
June 20, 2012, 05:45 PM
Will the auto disk powder measure work for pistol and rifle? i believe i would need to purchase the double disk kit for rifle correct?


Yes, You will need the double disk kit for rifle.

it comes with a lee pacesetter 3 die set will that work for 9mm or do i need the 4 die delux set? does the 3 die include a crimp? supposably i need to crimp 9mm. does the pacesetter let you drop the powder through the top witht the auto disk powder measure

Get the carbide set. It doesnt matter if you get the 3 die set or the 4 die set.
Just make sure there carbide that way you will not need to lube them in order to resize them. If you need to crimp 9mm, Your seating die does that as well. It has a built in crimp. The 4th die is convienence to a lot of people who prefer to crimp in a 4th step.

The expander/ flare die is where the Auto Disk sits on top and that will flare your case and drop powder at the same time. This is the second die in the set up.

what powder primers and bullets should i get for 9mm? just for plinking

Primers? Small Pistol and what ever is cheapest. I have used Winchester, Federal and CCI and some Remington and they all did their job just fine.
As for bullets, Again get what is cheapest just for plinking. Most of the time, I think that would be FMJ-RN or you can use Lead bullets and keep the cost down even further.


will i need to trim my rifle ammo?

Yes, You will need to trim your rifle brass. You trim after you resized it.

what dies should i get for 30 06 and 223.

This is more of a personal preference. I have Lee, RCBS and Hornady dies and they all make good ammo.

J_McLeod
June 20, 2012, 08:59 PM
I second the responses above. If you like to shoot 9mm, save your money a get a turret.

wolverine_173
June 20, 2012, 09:32 PM
Im looking at powder valley and i dont know which bullets to get, this is what i see BERRYS 9MM (.356) 124 GR RN-DS (250) what does the RN and DS mean

Lost Sheep
June 20, 2012, 09:43 PM
(edited for brevity) Lee's optional auto-index turret feature makes them much faster than a single stage or any other turret press. Additional easy-swap turrets are no more costly than bushings so having a seperate head set up for each cartridge is practical.
Just a clarification: The auto-index is not optional equipment. It comes with the press. It is optional to use it or not to use it.

Ranger335v, worded as your post was, a novice might think it was something you had to add to the purchase.

The advice about the turrets vs the bushings is right on, especially for loading straight-walled cases. Plus, I believe the bottom end of the Classic Turret is stronger and gives more leverage than the Challenger press (but I could be wrong about the leverage).

Lost Sheep

Lost Sheep
June 20, 2012, 09:50 PM
Go back and read rfwobbly's post (#6) in this thread.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=602284

Thanks for asking our advice and I am happy to see you are making progress towards your goal.

Research those two books before you plunk down hard cash for durable goods and you will be miles ahead.

Lost Sheep

ranger335v
June 20, 2012, 09:53 PM
"Ranger335v, worded as your post was, a novice might think it was something you had to add to the purchase."

You're right, very poor wording on my part. I'm not a good writer anyway and I got a phone call while typing that, then sent it without reading what I'd said. Glad you caught it....:D

kingmt
June 20, 2012, 10:40 PM
You can also stroke the press twice to get a larger drop from the Pro Auto Disk. If your loading for a bolt rifle I would get the deluxe set if it is for a auto get the RGB set.

Josh45
June 20, 2012, 11:34 PM
Im looking at powder valley and i dont know which bullets to get, this is what i see BERRYS 9MM (.356) 124 GR RN-DS (250) what does the RN and DS mean

RN - Round Nose
DS - Double Struck

These are good for plinking as are the X-Treme bullets.
There both decently priced and they are plated bullets.

wolverine_173
June 21, 2012, 12:10 AM
whats double struck?

i just want whatever is closest to normal fmj

now what about trimming do i need to know? will i have to trim 9mm casings or just rifle? If i dont trim what will happen will my gun jam or blow up?

Lost Sheep
June 21, 2012, 01:45 AM
Wolverine 173,

I want to encourage you to keep asking questions, but feel compelled to admonish you to do some research.

July 2011 you started the thread, "Beginner and interested in reloading, help?"

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=602284

That's plenty of time to have gotten a copy of "The ABC's of Reloading" and maybe a couple of loading manuals and read the ABC's all the way through and the beginning chapters of the loading manuals (which invariably describe the loading processes).

It is easy to get answers to questions on forums, it is hard to be sure you don't miss asking an important one. The instructional books tend to help you not miss things. Important things.

You have probably heard this before, "Do your groundwork." If you paint without priming, your paint won't stick. If you load ammunition without studying THOROUGHLY, you are liable to blow something up that you don't want blown up.

Lost Sheep

kingmt
June 21, 2012, 06:25 AM
I agree with lost sheep strongly on this. I have read a few even after reloading for a while. Stuck in Walmart waitting on my wife I have pulled one down & read it. Just make sure the manger doesn't mind. There is knowledge out there for free you just have to go get it.

wolverine_173
June 22, 2012, 03:17 PM
whats a good case trimmer and calipers that wont break the bank?

Strongbad
June 22, 2012, 03:54 PM
For what it's worth, I'd skip the 9mm. Around here anyway, you can get WWB (Winchester White Box) for $10 /50. At that price, it's hard to justify screwing with reloading. For the other two, reloading will definitely be cheaper.

Legion489
June 22, 2012, 05:14 PM
PLEASE, before doing anything, read the following books: LYMAN #49 (new) or #48 (old) manual, DBI METALLIC CARTRIDGE RELOADING #3, Lee MODERN RELOADING 2nd ed. You should be able to get them at the local library or through the interlibrary loan system (ask at the info desk about getting books from other libraries, which is what this is). The three books all use Lyman data, and the Lee and Lyman books only talk about their stuff, MCR #3 talks about every one and thing and tells you what is good and what is junk! The Lee book has quite a bit of over the top "Lee stuff is all great" stuff in it, which I consider to be not true. I was going to say it was mostly lies, but some people are offended by the truth so I won't.

I do NOT recommend ANY low quality pot metal presses of any type, or ANY low quality tools for any reason for that matter. At my age, buying quality is not expensive, buying junk that doesn't work and needs to be replaced with quality equipment and putting up with the aggravation and stress of having bought junk until I can get it replaced IS expensive!

I like the AUTO-DISK and refuse to use the PERFECT (it isn't!) powder measure! The disks work fine and if you want the two disk set, get one. Money well spent.

Lee straight cased pistol dies are carbide, which is good. I like Lee dies and have lots. The three die sets are fine, but I prefer the four die set, as I can seat bullets and crimp separately. The Lee FCD also resizes the case again, which I like. This may or may not matter to you, but for the few extra dollars you can try it and see for yourself.

Primers come in four types, SMALL rifle, SMALL pistol, LARGE rifle and LARGE pistol. There are also magnum primers which you will not need for the cartridges you are loading. Get SMALL pistol primers (I like Winchester primers for everything) for the 9mm. Cast or plated bullets will work fine and are "reasonably" cheap. Do a search of "bullets" and "reloading supplies" (about 6,000 hits, so you may need to refine it a bit to find what you want). Powder Valley and Wideners are both good.

You will need to trim your rifle cases (I never trim handgun cases, as I have never found one too long) if only to make them the same length to crimp. Trim every third time you shoot the case. The Lee hand trimmer with base and cutter work fine, although the Forster trimmer is truly excellent (read expensive but worth it).

Again, Lee dies are fine for rifle cartridges. I like the deluxe set, but the regular set with shell holder and scoop is fine. I generally don't buy the RGB die sets because I like getting the shell holder so I have it and don't have to look for the shell holder set. If you have shell holders, the RGB dies are a good buy. You will need case lube for rifle cartridges, any good brand and FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS!

Hope this helps.

ranger335v
June 22, 2012, 06:30 PM
"Just make sure there carbide that way you will not need to lube them in order to resize them. "

Josh45, can you tell us who makes straight wall handgun sizers today that aren't carbide?

kingmt
June 22, 2012, 08:29 PM
Leagon
Much better post but the Lee presses are not pot metal & I think they make good presses.

If yor loading for a bolt I suggest the delux set.

wolverine_173
June 26, 2012, 11:22 AM
im looking at powder valley for 223 bullets for reloading in 55 grain, i only see .224 for 55 grain. Do they sell 223?

and they dont tell you how much shipping is until after you order, anybody know how much they charge?

jcwit
June 26, 2012, 12:24 PM
Wolverine 173

You either need to get some reloading manuals or read and reread them. The dia. for the .223 is .224.

RustyFN
June 26, 2012, 12:49 PM
For what it's worth, I'd skip the 9mm. Around here anyway, you can get WWB (Winchester White Box) for $10 /50. At that price, it's hard to justify screwing with reloading.

True unless you like to hit what you are aiming at. A friend of mine shot two 8.5" by 11" targets with a Glock and his reloads with 12 rounds per group. They were shot from a Ransom rest and both groups were 2 inches. He did the same test with WWB ammo and on the first one only got 9 out of the 12 on the paper. The second group he had 8 of 12 on the paper.

For me it's worth reloading 9mm because I can get more accurate ammo than I would buy. I can make it with less recoil. If I want to load it with my own cast bullets then all it cost me is powder and primer.

I could be wrong because I don't load 30-06 but I remember hearing that the double disk kit won't go big enough to load 30-06.

Legion489
June 26, 2012, 12:50 PM
RCBS, Lyman and others make regular steel dies for straight cased cartridges. I generally buy RCBS regular steel dies when I want them, but have others too. These are useful for case forming and other uses, but for everyday reloading, carbide (or whatever else the company calls their non-steel dies) is the way to go. Lee carbide dies are the cheapest, RCBS and Lyman can vary in price depending, Dillon, Redding and Forster are the best, and cost it!

"Ain't we got the idiots on our side? And ain't that a majority anywhere?" Mark Twain

"Say you are an idiot, and say you oppose Legion, but I repeat myself." Mark Twain (paraphrased)

premier1
June 26, 2012, 02:28 PM
All the advice given here by these fine people is very valuable. It seems like they hace covered the equipment side of things quite fully so I'll address the components. For 9mm primers I would use CCI or Remington they are said to be a little bit harder not as sensitive for your bullets I would recommend the Berrys 115 gr. Fmj for ease in feeding they are also very inexpensive. Many different powders are available I use Bullseye. Also even at $10.50 a box for 9mm if you reload you'll probably safe half that much.

wolverine_173
June 26, 2012, 11:30 PM
So any that say 224 and 55 grain will work for 223?

Jim Watson
June 26, 2012, 11:40 PM
I say it, everybody says it, including the rifle and ammunition makers.
.223 Remington is just a trademark.
The standard bullet diameter for ALL modern .22 centerfires is .224".

So it doesn't matter whether you have a .218 Bee, a .219 Zipper, a .220 Swift, a .221 Fireball, a .222 Remington, a .223 Remington, a .224 Weatherby, or a .225 Winchester; they ALL shoot .224" diameter bullets.
(Unfortunately a .22 Jet is .222", an older .22 Hornet is .223", and a .22 Savage is .227", but these are obsolete oddballs, stick to the standard stuff.)

Bullet weights differ for different case sizes, rifling twists, and intended targets, but the diameter is standard.

A 55 grain .224" bullet is fine for cheap .223 ammunition.


But you will not learn how to handload one question at a time on the internet.
Get some books.

ArchAngelCD
June 28, 2012, 12:35 AM
I'm not a fan of the Challenger press at all. If you want to buy a Lee single stage press buy the Classic SS press which is Cast Iron. BUT... Since you are going to load 9mm ammo I also recommend buying the Lee Classic Turret Press.
https://kempfgunshop.com//index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=630&category_id=190&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=41
I also highly recommend buying the Pro Auto-Disk over the standard Auto-Disk. For a few dollars more you get a much better tool! (upgrade at the bottom of the page)

I load a bunch of handgun calibers along with the .223, 30-30, 30-06, 45-70 and a few more on the classic turret press. All you need to do is remove the auto-index rod and treat it as a single stage press and you are good-to-go... I also have a single stage press but mostly use the turret press now because the dies are all set up on their own turrets.

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