Why does my new Daniel Defense M4 feel like a toy...?


PDA






SilentStalker
June 20, 2012, 11:30 PM
I am serious! I like the fact that it is lightweight but overall the thing feels like a toy, especially when compared to some of my other ARs like my Bushmaster Preban. The Bushmaster seems much more robust and appears like it would handle a helluva lot more abuse granted it is a heavy barrel but dang. The DD feels like a .22 or something. The caliber just says multiple. It's supposed to be chambered for 5.56 so technically it could be multiple-caliber and it has some kind of etched thing saying 5.56 on the upper but it is not stamped as such. Everything looks correct and functions correct aside from actually shooting it since I have not taken it to the range but dang I am impressed with how light it is. If you guys get the chance to handle a DD M4 v5 LW I suggest you pick it up and try it out!

If you enjoyed reading about "Why does my new Daniel Defense M4 feel like a toy...?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
C-grunt
June 20, 2012, 11:39 PM
It was made to be lightweight. It might feel less robust than the Bushy but that definitely isnt the case.

Fremmer
June 20, 2012, 11:41 PM
Carry it around all day and then take a nice long hike, and you'll realize why. :D

MCgunner
June 21, 2012, 09:52 AM
It's why they were called "Mattel" rifles 50 years ago. I don't care for the tacticool, some do. Weight isn't a concern for me and when it is, I have a Remington M7 for spot and stalk.

dom1104
June 21, 2012, 10:03 AM
"Why is my lightweight gun lightweight?!"

I dont know what to tell you about that bud.

SpeedAKL
June 21, 2012, 11:30 AM
It feels like a toy because it's so light and balanced:). I'm really itching for a new lightweight carbine right now, and DD makes some of the best ARs on the market. If you want to feel an amazingly well-balanced gun, try a KAC SR-25. INCREDIBLE.

I had one of those HBAR Bushies for awhile. It ran quite well but it was a heavy SOB up front! Those HBAR barrels don't have any significant accuracy benefit since they aren't necessarily cut to better tolerances. The HBAR may have a slight advantage when both barrels get hot, but for carbines who cares?

jim243
June 21, 2012, 12:51 PM
Wait till more and more come out with carbon-fiber uppers and lowers, then you will see what a light weight is all about. (5.6 lbs)

Jim

SilentStalker
June 21, 2012, 01:55 PM
^^^its not much of a weight savings IMO. My DD tips the scales at 5.8 pounds and that is with the full Omega rail...

G.barnes
June 21, 2012, 02:02 PM
if it's to light you could always add a laser,huge flashlight, bipod and overkill scope for that tacticool look and it'll help make it feel more like your hbar bushy

JustinJ
June 21, 2012, 02:09 PM
^^^its not much of a weight savings IMO. My DD tips the scales at 5.8 pounds and that is with the full Omega rail...

Did you weigh it yourself because DD claims it weighs 6.5 lbs. Their rail is light but i know that gun isn't lighter than a stock Colt 6720 with plastic handguards.

https://danieldefense.com/rifles/mid-length/daniel-defense-m4-carbine-v5-lw.html

kwelz
June 21, 2012, 03:06 PM
Did you weigh it yourself because DD claims it weighs 6.5 lbs. Their rail is light but i know that gun isn't lighter than a stock Colt 6720 with plastic handguards.

https://danieldefense.com/rifles/mid-length/daniel-defense-m4-carbine-v5-lw.html

Can't comment on the exact weight, but Plastic Hand guards are usually heavier or as heavy as a quality Aluminum rail.

68wj
June 21, 2012, 04:52 PM
Must be something wrong with it because, "weight is sign of reliability":
http://content8.flixster.com/question/22/06/64/2206642_std.jpg

moxie
June 21, 2012, 05:23 PM
50 years ago, they were Mattel-like. The light plastic triangular handguards were "twisty." The buffer went "twang" when you shot the rifle. The mags were junk. These and other issues have been fixed. The AR is now a solid and reliable gun.

JustinJ
June 21, 2012, 06:44 PM
Can't comment on the exact weight, but Plastic Hand guards are usually heavier or as heavy as a quality Aluminum rail.

Well, i'm not sure about carbine length vs carbine length but i don't think midlength aluminum will be lighter than carbine plastic.

12131
June 21, 2012, 06:51 PM
"Lighter, Stronger, Better"

kwelz
June 21, 2012, 11:33 PM
Well, i'm not sure about carbine length vs carbine length but i don't think midlength aluminum will be lighter than carbine plastic.

Stock Double heat shield handguards are 9.3 oz.
Midlength Plastic Handguards run around 12 oz.

A carbine Length Omega X rail is 9.5 oz.
A Mid length Omega X is 11.7 oz

So going to a middy Omega x gains you less than 2.5 oz.

Just for comparison a 13" Troy Alpha rail is 11.4 oz. There is a reason they are my new preference. :)

Texan Scott
June 22, 2012, 02:50 AM
idunno... is the furniture beech or walnut?
.
.
.
.
OOoooooohhh... THAT'S why it feels like a toy! :D

madcratebuilder
June 22, 2012, 06:42 AM
Can't comment on the exact weight, but Plastic Hand guards are usually heavier or as heavy as a quality Aluminum rail.

Plastic hand guards as heavy as a aluminum rail????:confused: Are you using lead heat shields? A plastic single heat shield M4 hand guard weights under 3oz, about ten grams under depending on maker.

Stock Double heat shield handguards are 9.3 oz.
Midlength Plastic Handguards run around 12 oz.

You need to calibrate your scale. Double heat shield M4 hand guards are under 5oz.



The caliber just says multiple. It's supposed to be chambered for 5.56 so technically it could be multiple-caliber and it has some kind of etched thing saying 5.56 on the upper but it is not stamped as such.

Most lower's today are marked Multi Cal. Look at the end of the barrel, in front of the gas block, it should be marked with chamber size and twist rate.

SpentCasing
June 22, 2012, 03:11 PM
Madcrate,

Now add the cap and detla ring weight also too. All in all the aluminum FF rails do end up being lighter.

kwelz
June 22, 2012, 03:15 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v445/bravocompanyusa/100_2065.jpg

9.1 here. Unless you are calling Paul from BCM a liar.

SilentStalker
June 22, 2012, 04:11 PM
To whoever was asking, I weighed the rifle myself. However, thst weight will be going up soon as I am fixing to mount a scope and back up sights on it. Oh, and the weight was with the DD forearm grip still attached.

madcratebuilder
June 23, 2012, 07:49 AM
When you add the barrel nut it does weigh more. Now show the weights of the aluminum rails with there proprietary barrel nut and all mounting hardware.

The argument that aluminum rails are as light as plastic is invalid IMHO.

jad0110
June 23, 2012, 09:07 AM
I had one of those HBAR Bushies for awhile. It ran quite well but it was a heavy SOB up front! Those HBAR barrels don't have any significant accuracy benefit since they aren't necessarily cut to better tolerances. The HBAR may have a slight advantage when both barrels get hot, but for carbines who cares?

I had a Del-Ton HBAR 16" middy upper on my Doublestar lower for a while. The muzzle heavy balance was exaggerated by the light CAR 6-position adjustable stock. IMHO, the balance was all wrong. Sure, it was a bit more stable when shooting off hand for maximum accuracy. But that really isn't the point of a 16" carbine, at least in my opinion. Since then I swapped the HBAR upper for a pencil barrel BCM 16" mid length upper and it completely transformed the feel and balance. The only other carbine I've held that balances better for me is my M-1.

50 years ago, they were Mattel-like. The light plastic triangular handguards were "twisty." The buffer went "twang" when you shot the rifle. The mags were junk. These and other issues have been fixed. The AR is now a solid and reliable gun.

Actually, the buffer still goes "twang".

Orlando
June 23, 2012, 09:26 AM
50 years ago the mags were junk????
Thats a new one on me. I am using those 1960's 20 rd mags today. They all function great and I actually prefer them

kwelz
June 23, 2012, 02:58 PM
When you add the barrel nut it does weigh more. Now show the weights of the aluminum rails with there proprietary barrel nut and all mounting hardware.

The argument that aluminum rails are as light as plastic is invalid IMHO.

Opinion without data is irrelevant.

I hate to tell you, but those weights do include the mounting hardware. For instance here is the M4 rail with barrel nut and ring.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v445/bravocompanyusa/100_2064.jpg

If you enjoyed reading about "Why does my new Daniel Defense M4 feel like a toy...?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!