Single All Around Cartridge?


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Bio-Chem
June 22, 2012, 02:49 AM
My apologies if this is a topic already done. I'm hoping for a lively discussion, and to hopefully learn some things.

While growing up as a kid I read Clay Harvey's book Popular Sporting Rifle Cartridges. In this book there is a chapter called Selecting the All Around Ceterfire Cartridge. In which he tackles the question which rifle caliber performs the most services for the money? The idea being if you could only own one rifle to service you from varmints, up through elk/moose which would it be? When the book published in 1984 Mr. Harvey came to the conclusion that the .30-06 was the best all around centerfire rifle cartridge.

My question is would one come to a different conclusion today considering since then we’ve seen multiple wildcats become standardized, the advent of the Short Magnums, and the development of new bullets such as the single alloy line from Barnes? Has the .30-06 been dethroned in the last 30 years?

If you had to limit yourself to one rifle cartridge, which one would it be, and why? :what:

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ColtPythonElite
June 22, 2012, 03:14 AM
A .30-06 was my one sporting rifle for years...deer in the fall and groundhogs they rest of they year. I could happily go back to one gun in that caliber.

2ndtimer
June 22, 2012, 03:20 AM
My Model 70 Super Shadow in .270WSM. Great deer cartridge at any reasonable range. Very tolerable recoil, outstanding accuracy, flat shooting. Could also wreak havoc on rockchucks, if so desired with 90 gr Sierra HP's or Speer TNT's. Could do decently on elk or moose if I step up to the 150 or 160 gr Nosler Partition bullet. I like the short action and light weight, too.

firesky101
June 22, 2012, 03:22 AM
I could live with a .308 as well, but .30-06 will do everything ya need. It would not be my first choice for cape buffalo or african elephant though. (not saying it can't, just not my first choice)

YankeeFlyr
June 22, 2012, 03:23 AM
.308 Winchester!

Ridgerunner665
June 22, 2012, 03:28 AM
No...the 30-06 has not been dethroned...and likely will not be anytime soon.

The 280 Remington "should be" a close 2nd...but it just never caught on.

Sheepdog1968
June 22, 2012, 03:33 AM
It's a great choice.

Bio-Chem
June 22, 2012, 03:41 AM
I consider each of the calibers mentioned so far all in the running for sure. I can't imagine the .280 Remington being inferior in killing power for real world applications, nor the .308 or .270 WSM. in my mind they each would fit the same practical real world energy levels. I would have no problems taking any one of those rounds after elk.

.270WSM for recoil? would it remain tolerable on an all day hunt shooting varmints? economically how big of an impact for a non-reloader considering the box of ammo compared to the .30-06? Or for a reloader in using 70grains of powder compared to the .30-06 using 55grains?

Bio-Chem
June 22, 2012, 03:43 AM
I should have been smart and thought to do a poll. Hindsight and all that.

Salmoneye
June 22, 2012, 08:08 AM
I could live with one gun in .30-06, and in fact did when younger...

meanmrmustard
June 22, 2012, 08:20 AM
.30/06, meh. Popular maybe. I'm thinking that there's someone on here that might argue that the 30-30 has as much all around potential. Deer, bigger game, varmints? All taken by a 30-30. It's NOT better than an /06, but all around usage potential is on par, minus the recoil. .30/06 can go way longer range, but we don't always have to be 1000 yards from our quarry, especially in a survival scenario you'd wanna be as close as possible to make the shot count.

My vote however: .308 :)

Kachok
June 22, 2012, 09:03 AM
While the 30-06 is WAY up that list, for where I hunt I say the 6.5x55, No deer stands a chance, it shoots better at long range then the 308 or 30-06 ever will and it does it all with an absolute minimal of recoil and noise. Varmint bullets at 3,500fps, 120gr deer thumpers at 3kfps and 156-160gr monsters that are famous for taking down polor bears, elk and moose.
I won't even get into their mainstay 140s, too much information to cover here. That truly is a do it all little gun. While there are no "inherently accurate" cartrages there are however cartrages that it is just plain easier to work up precision handloads and the 6.5x55 is king in that regard. Easier then 30-06, easier then 270 win and easier then 308 only the 243 comes close in my experience.

Gunnerboy
June 22, 2012, 09:16 AM
^ well i was a few minutes late but my vote goes to 6.5x55

TanklessPro
June 22, 2012, 09:20 AM
Since no one else has I'll bite.

What about the 223/5.56? Its cheap to shoot and reload. Good at 300 yards and popular with varminteers. The only con would be with large game, but people take elk and moose with bows all the time.
My large game choice would be 300WTBY. It does everything the 223 can do plus take large game. The only con is the cost even if you reload.
I like the 308 maybe the new king, but still a little expensive.
I'm not a fan of the whole only one caliber but for me I would pick the 223/5.56.Mainly because with elk/moose being +700 miles away from me and I do not own an ICBM. :)

Double Vision
June 22, 2012, 09:24 AM
You can't go wrong with a .30-06 but the .308 aka 7.62x51 will also do most everything required.

That being said, the 7.62x39 is a good caliber for most everything except the biggest the biggest game. It gets extra points for being inexpensive and easy to carry in volume.

beatledog7
June 22, 2012, 09:26 AM
Availability drives desirability drives availability...

This sort of poll be won by a military or ex-military cartridge, based on familiarity, until all the guys who served and trusted their lives to the cartridge have gone on to greener pastures.

Then, who knows? Maybe there will so many surplus rifles around that their chamberings will continue to dominate, but I suspect that when all the guys who carried a .30-cal rifle in battle are gone, some more "modern" cartridge will rise to the top.

My bet: A long action 6.5 or 7mm cartridge will take over the top spot, supplanting the .30-06 and .308 by the year 2030.

Brian Williams
June 22, 2012, 09:35 AM
My one cartridge is a 7mm-08, it is a good all around Eastern woods rifle

BBQLS1
June 22, 2012, 09:40 AM
All around best would be the .30-06 in my opinion. There are lots of reasons. The huge selection of bullets would be one... If you can't kill it with a .30-06, it probably wasn't meant to be killed.

BoilerUP
June 22, 2012, 09:42 AM
260 Remington!

95 Vmax for varmints, 140gr Partition for Elk & Moose, 140gr Berger Hybrids for ELR, or just rock the 140gr A-Max for darn near every purpose.

Only downside to it is a lack of widely available factory ammo...a non-factor for a reloader but a factor for some.

highlander 5
June 22, 2012, 09:50 AM
I don't have my reloading manuals near by but if memory serve me 30'06 and the 308 have the widest selection of bullets,cast and jacketed and powders from what would be pistol powders to full tilt reloads. Add to that thenear endless supply of surplus brass you'll be in good shape for quite awhile. My largest caliber is 45/70 but I vote 30'06 for best all around cartridge. I do have a 308 bolt gun BTW.

303tom
June 22, 2012, 09:55 AM
The .30-06 will never be dethroned...............

Salmoneye
June 22, 2012, 10:25 AM
The huge selection of bullets would be one... If you can't kill it with a .30-06, it probably wasn't meant to be killed.

I'm shamelessly stealing that as my sig for a while...

:evil:

Chevelle SS
June 22, 2012, 10:39 AM
8mm because I love my Mausers

Snag
June 22, 2012, 11:02 AM
Much respect to the 30-06 but I guess I'm just not a fan. I'd pick 308 before the 30-06 as a do everything cartridge.

If you had to limit yourself to one rifle cartridge, which one would it be, and why?

My personal choice would be 243. Yeah probably too light for elk, I wouldn't know as I've never hunted for elk. The experiences I've had have given me a lot of confidence in that round to excel at everything.

The_Armed_Therapist
June 22, 2012, 11:06 AM
I just read this article this morning: http://www.chuckhawks.com/all_around_cartridges.htm

He develops a lot of criteria, all of which may not be applicable to everybody; but he determines that there are 4 cartridges that meet all 8 of his criteria...

1) .270 Winchester
2) 7mm Remington Magnum
3) .308 Winchester
4) .30-06 Springfield

I personally think that about a dozen or so make perfect all-around cartridges, but I agree with Hawkes in that these are found ANYWHERE, and I like that. I'd probably prefer to stick to these 4 for that reason. He also delineates between these 4 in the article. Interesting read!

dak0ta
June 22, 2012, 11:10 AM
6,5x55 SE and 8x57 IS

Charger442
June 22, 2012, 11:12 AM
300 savage. the daddy to the 308.

kcshooter
June 22, 2012, 11:19 AM
I'd go for .243win. Loaded heavy for deer, light for varmints, there's not much I can't do with it. But I'm not going for elk or moose around here, whitetail deer would be the biggest, and the .243 is plenty for that.

Second choice would be .308, and it's a very close second, but that's a bit much for groundhogs.

wlewisiii
June 22, 2012, 12:19 PM
The .30-06 is fine as far as it goes. But there are other's I'd pick over it for your definition of all around:

1) 7x57
2) 6.5x55

Either of these, for example, can be loaded appropriate to any game in North America. If you're going to need more on the varmint end then

3) .257 Roberts

would be a great choice that can still be used for big game as well.

I personally went with 7x57 as my all around. In a strong 98 mauser or single shot action, it'll do anything you want it to.

MrDig
June 22, 2012, 12:33 PM
I'd go for .243win. Loaded heavy for deer, light for varmints, There's not much I can't do with it. But I'm not going for elk or moose around here, whitetail deer would be the biggest, and the .243 is plenty for that.

Second choice would be .308, and it's a very close second, but that's a bit much for groundhogs.
I was surprised someone didn't mention .243 earlier, My other All Around would be a 30-30
you would have to let some of the more dangerous critter get awfully close maybe too close for comfort but it will drop just about anything it shoots

Old judge creek
June 22, 2012, 12:42 PM
I agree with 30-06 as best all around.

Having said that, my 30-06 rifles have for years now taken the back seat in favor of my .308 rifles.

Manny
June 22, 2012, 01:03 PM
In Ohio where I live deer are our only big game and center fire rifles are not a legal method of hunting. For what I can use a rifle for the .223/5.56 is the most versitle choice. If that situation were to change, so would my choice of cartridge.

kcshooter
June 22, 2012, 01:07 PM
center fire rifles are not a legal method of hunting. What?? So what's a legal method, bows or clubs?

bulletboy
June 22, 2012, 01:15 PM
I'm going to go against the grain and nominate the 25-06 since It's suitable for everything from varmints to elk.

BoilerUP
June 22, 2012, 01:21 PM
What?? So what's a legal method, bows or clubs?

Shotguns w/ slugs.

gp911
June 22, 2012, 02:05 PM
Just to clarify, he meant for hunting deer. No centerfire rifle for deer in OH. Now a .50 cal sabot fired from a 12 gauge? Totally legal. But a .243? Heavens no. *shrug*

jogar80
June 22, 2012, 04:32 PM
Just to clarify, he meant for hunting deer. No centerfire rifle for deer in OH. Now a .50 cal sabot fired from a 12 gauge? Totally legal. But a .243? Heavens no. *shrug*

Weeeeeird.... :confused:

Bio-Chem
June 22, 2012, 05:22 PM
.............Strike Ohio off the list as a place i'm willing to move to

Texan Scott
June 22, 2012, 06:01 PM
Probably depends on where you are. Africa, .375 H&H. NYC? mmm... yeah, .223 might work. Northern US? .30-06, for sure, though I'm surprised noone from North Dakota or somewhere has said .45-70. I hear it's murder on jackrabbits, at least under 25 yds.
Here? .30-30 would do anything I'd be fool enough to attempt.

beatledog7
June 22, 2012, 06:08 PM
Some states have decided that centerfire rifle bullets travel too far to be allowed: too little control, they say, over where the bullet goes if it misses the intended target. Shotgun slugs, OTOH, drop so quickly that they're deemed safe.

D*N*R*
June 22, 2012, 07:08 PM
If your asking this question your prob. not shooting past 200 yrds.(hopefully)
rounds you will find in any store that sells bullets
deer and smaller 243 will do it fine.
270 winchester will give you some room for error (more kick)
308 & 30-06 elk and things with fangs (just need to know the distance) a little closer. They kick more and drop faster MORE or LESS.

foxtail207
June 22, 2012, 08:33 PM
I'll go with my .270. With various loads you can do just about anything. Plus I just love my .270 BAR... fun to shoot, minor recoil, and accurate all day long.

Abel
June 22, 2012, 08:36 PM
I could use a 30-30 as my all around. I have never been a long range guy. I typically only shoot out to 125 yards.

Texan Scott
June 22, 2012, 08:40 PM
Like I said, .30-30 will do anything I'm fool enough to try... i won't try 300 yd shots w/it; i won't try to kill large predators with it. I something 300 lbs with teeth and claws needs stopping, something has already gone wrong... and it would prob have started with my decision to go looking for something 300lb-ish w/ teeth & claws... :uhoh:

Salmoneye
June 22, 2012, 10:45 PM
Like I said, .30-30 will do anything I'm fool enough to try... i won't try 300 yd shots w/it; i won't try to kill large predators with it. I something 300 lbs with teeth and claws needs stopping, something has already gone wrong... and it would prob have started with my decision to go looking for something 300lb-ish w/ teeth & claws...

Not that I totally disagree, but the first time you get chased around a tree by a ticked off Cow Moose because you are between her and her 200# "Baby", you may change your tune...

Just sayin'...

:D

Auto426
June 22, 2012, 10:58 PM
The .30-06 is a great all purpose round, but today .308 ammo is a little cheaper, has nearly the same performance, and you'll find a much larger selection of firearms in .308.

Abel
June 22, 2012, 10:59 PM
If you can't kill a moose at twenty yards or less with a 30-30, then you need target practice, not a bigger rifle.

longrange308
June 22, 2012, 11:13 PM
The 30-06 is still king, and alive and well. All hail the King!

Narwhal
June 22, 2012, 11:17 PM
.308 for availability and versatility.

rcmodel
June 22, 2012, 11:20 PM
If you can't kill a moose at twenty yards or less with a 30-30, then you need target practice, not a bigger rifle. What he said!!

Nothing you can shoot from the shoulder will stop a charging moose at 20 yards unless you hit it where it has to be hit.
Right between and below the eyes, or under the chin, breaking the spine.

If you do that, a 30-30 will stop it in it's tracks, as soon as it stops sliding on it's nose making a track.

rc

Kachok
June 23, 2012, 01:25 AM
To be the "Single all around cartrage" they have to do everything and do it pretty darn well. 30-30s are great in the brush but fail the test in open country, the 243 is fantastic for open plains game but it's 100gr bullets are a tad light for larger game, their penetration is less then ideal. The perfect all around cartrage should be able to use heavier higher SD bullets at adequate speed for a good 400yd trajectory, and very high BC bullets out to long ranges for target shooting without eating up the barrel like some heavy magnums can do. In Addition to this it should be light recoiling enough for all day varmint hunting or target shooting in a realistic weight rifle. Finnaly I would sugest that the all around rifle should be at leased .264 cal and be able to use bullets of at leased 140gr, and be no larger then a 30cal for recoil reasons.
By these criteria we can narrow down the ideal cartrage to the following list.

6.5x55/260rem/6.5 Creedmore/6.5x47 A+ across the board. Highest lethality to recoil ratio, sure the caliber is a tad small for the largest of game, but their fantastic penetration keeps them a viable option. You HAVE to handload to explore the limits of the 6.5s factory ammo is very limited :(
6.5-284 About as overbore as I would consider, this is a real monster of a 6.5mm that delivers a fierce blow to long ranges with mild recoil and true world class external ballistics.
270 Win if you factor in the cost, avalibility and variety of factory ammo this one REALLY shines, second only to the 30-06 in that regard. Shoots flat, hits hard and kicks light....what exactly is there not to like?
7mm-08 External ballistics rivaling the 6.5mms and internal efficiency rivaling the 308 win this short action packs a hellava wallop in such a small package even at range. Another A+ choice especially for handloaders.
7x57 While the 7mm-08 is a little faster with varmint weight bullets the old 7x57 is better with really heavy bullets for large game, making it a top contender without a doubt.
280 Rem The fastest 7mm that I would call truly an "all around" cartrage. Better ballistics then the 270 in every catagory, and higher SD bullets for large game, sadly the factory options are limited, making this a handloader's cartrage.
308 win World class internal ballistics combined with good external ballistics and a reputation for accuracy makes this the choice of many sharp shooters around the world, it's only two limiting factors are it's inability to use the ultra heavy .30 cal bullets effectively and it's mid ranged speeds, with it's wide variety of factory loads this is as practical as any for deer through elk class game.
30-06 If you shoot only factoy ammo this is it, no other cartrage comes in such a huge variety of useable bullet weights, it stomps the 308 with 180gr and heavier bullets, and comes pre loaded as heavy as 220gr making this a good bear, buffalo, and moose cartrage even in factory form. While I would argue that the 7mm-08, 7x57, 6.5x55 and 280 Rem are probably better "all around" with custom loads the 30-06 is without a doubt the most versatile cartrage for the casual hunter, and it does have some impressive handloads in it's arsenal as well.
The 30-06 is the hardest kicking cartrage that I would even consider shooting 100+ times in a day on the rifle range or blasting varmints so I will cut it off there, sure the 300 mags are great but not really an all around contender.

Ridgerunner665
June 23, 2012, 01:35 AM
I really like the 30-06...but I have to say that I draw the line at the 270 Win if we're talking firing 100 rounds in a day.

The 30-06 kicks a bit when loaded to its potential...

Kachok
June 23, 2012, 01:44 AM
I do push my 30-06 to max loads, 165gr bullets at 3,000+fps! But my PAST recoil pad tames it quite a bit, best $30 I ever spent for doing load development on 30 cals and magnums, especaly since my 30-06 only weighs 6.5lbs :D

Ridgerunner665
June 23, 2012, 01:49 AM
Mine is probably due in large part to poor stock fit...but thats being taken care of.

My loads ain't quite that hot (168's @ 2,850 fps) and after 20 rounds I start feeling it.

Bio-Chem
June 23, 2012, 01:56 AM
i like your perspective kachok. Makes a lot of sense.

Water-Man
June 23, 2012, 02:02 AM
6.5x55 SE.

Kachok
June 23, 2012, 02:20 AM
i like your perspective kachok. Makes a lot of sense.
Always nice to have a fan. Glad you enjoy my rants :D

bromdenlong
June 23, 2012, 03:36 AM
.358 Winchester, if you handload.

Bio-Chem
June 23, 2012, 06:39 AM
.358 winchester? really? the .358 doesn't come close to matching anything i would consider needed for the ultimate all rounder. To start, it is a cartridge that is nearly dead. I should know, as I type this i have one sitting not 25 feet from me. the .358 could hardly be considered a Jack of all trades round. with its extremely limited bullet selection, and inherit capabilities of the cartridge I would consider it barely passable at either end of our extremes

husbandofaromanian
June 23, 2012, 07:28 AM
"If you had to limit yourself to one rifle cartridge, which one would it be, and why?"

22LR. If I can only have one, it will be the one that I can truly afford to shoot all that I want. It might even kill a deer with a well placed shot. However, it will put small game food on the table for a lifetime. I have 11,000 rounds of 22lr and didn't spend a lot of money for it.

viking499
June 23, 2012, 07:41 AM
For availability.....308 or 30-06

For me and my part of the country.......6.5x55

meanmrmustard
June 23, 2012, 08:31 AM
While I agree with alot of what is being said on this thread, we must make note to remember that RECOIL IS SUBJECTIVE, first and always. What kicks like a mule for one shooter, may feel tame to the next.

meanmrmustard
June 23, 2012, 08:33 AM
"If you had to limit yourself to one rifle cartridge, which one would it be, and why?"

22LR. If I can only have one, it will be the one that I can truly afford to shoot all that I want. It might even kill a deer with a well placed shot. However, it will put small game food on the table for a lifetime. I have 11,000 rounds of 22lr and didn't spend a lot of money for it.
Good perspective. This is an often overlooked choice. While most anyone would tell you it's a poor choice defense wise, 25 rounds of CCI Stinger HPs rapid fired into a group the size of an orange is good deterrent. I love my 522!

deadasslast2004
June 23, 2012, 08:37 AM
good old 270. yakes everything in Texas and colorado. i took a 1,100 lb 6x7 elk with same rifle 1 shot.

Salmoneye
June 23, 2012, 09:30 AM
If you can't kill a moose at twenty yards or less with a 30-30, then you need target practice, not a bigger rifle.

So you're saying you've never been chased around a tree by a ticked off Moose...

Duly noted...

:rolleyes:

Salmoneye
June 23, 2012, 09:31 AM
What he said!!

Nothing you can shoot from the shoulder will stop a charging moose at 20 yards unless you hit it where it has to be hit.
Right between and below the eyes, or under the chin, breaking the spine.

If you do that, a 30-30 will stop it in it's tracks, as soon as it stops sliding on it's nose making a track.

rc

Wow...

I thought the thread was an attempt a humor...

My bad for not realizing everyone would get so serious...



:D

Dean1818
June 23, 2012, 09:33 AM
308

It can be in a bolt action and an AR10

JEB
June 23, 2012, 10:06 AM
i think it really depends on the person and what their hunting style is.

for me, i do exactly ZERO varmint hunting and almost no long range target shooting so i really have nothing to gain by choosing a smaller round like the .243 win. i do however, do a lot of deer hunting and have a fondness for .30 cal rifles, so my vote goes to the 30-06.

for someone who does a lot more varmint shooting than deer hunting, the .243 or the 7mm-08 would be an excellent choice but my '06 would just be costing more in components and recoil than they have any need for.

Bio-Chem
June 23, 2012, 03:39 PM
The original post had the parameters given guys. I enjoy reading what cartridge people choose for their own personal needs, and then explain what those might be (geographic, or type of game, or whatever).

I will say that a .22lr, 30-30, or .358 really doesn't even come close to knocking off a 30-06 as king of the hill given the original searches goals.

CharlieDeltaJuliet
June 23, 2012, 06:28 PM
While I too love the .308 or even a 270, the 30-06 is still a great choice. I would have to pick the 30-06 over others for my use, if I had to have only one.

336A
June 23, 2012, 07:02 PM
The original post had the parameters given guys. I enjoy reading what cartridge people choose for their own personal needs, and then explain what those might be (geographic, or type of game, or whatever).

I will say that a .22lr, 30-30, or .358 really doesn't even come close to knocking off a 30-06 as king of the hill given the original searches goals.

Yes you set the parameters here when you asked this question

If you had to limit yourself to one rifle cartridge, which one would it be, and why?

Posters have been giving you they're opinions of what they would pick and why based off of your last question. Just like Clay Harvey gave everyone his opinions and why in his book. If you don't like the opinions of others then you should have never posted the question in the first place. Here is another one for you, my pick is the classic 30-30.

Things are different today than when Clay Harvey had his book published. Today politics weigh heavily on folks minds, remember the great ammo dry up? I remember when it was almost impossible to find any .223, .270, .308, and 30-06 on the shelves, however there was always plenty of 30-30. If you did find it prices were higher than what most paid prior to that. I vividly remember A hunter curseing about how expensive ammo has gotten for his favoite 30-06 huning rifle. Now most of us common folk have to pay attention to price as well. I don't want to hear about reloading as we are few compared to the masses of hunters out there.

When the above hunter stood there curseing I grabbed a box of my preffered 30-30 ammo and went my merry way. Yes it went up in price too but it is still much more affordable than the like of the 30-06 and etc... Even in regards to reloading it uses quite a bit less powder per load making it cheaper again. is it ballisticlly capable of taking game at 400yd no. Then again no one should be shooting game that far away in the first place. Why...? due to the ever present possibility of a miss and not knowing what or who may behind that terrain feature down range.

The 30-30 continues to get better with age we now have the Hornady ammo that gives the cartridge the ability to go out to 250yd for deer sized game. Over on the Hornady web site there are lots of pics of folks that have taken everything from deer to moose with just that load alone. For those that like to scoff about the effectiveness of the cartridge on game larger than deer then watch this nice little episode http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xZsgwPlLM0

The 30-30 is also one of the best cartridges for shooting cast bullets, it's as if it were made for it. Most modern day cartridges will shoot cast bullets too but it may take a little more work on the useres end to figure everything out.

So to answer your question if I had to limit myself to one rifle cartridge, what would it be and why?

The 30-30
1. ammo is everywhere
2. ammo is cheaper than any other popular big game hunting cartridge
3. Will harvest any animal a hunter may face (excluding the great bears of the north) when used within it's limitations
4. won't knock the fillings from your teeth when you pull the trigger
5. works great with both low velocity and full power cast bullet hunting loads

Have a nice day:)

Float Pilot
June 23, 2012, 07:22 PM
* Here is Alaska you can never go wrong with a 30-06.
* Ammo is in every store, town, village and passing pick-up.
* It will handle big critters with good shot placement.
* Being a standard size rifles have a 4 to 5 round magazine. (two more than the magnums)
* It does not kick too hard for the amount of damage it can inflict.


Yes I love the 6.5x55mm and 7x57mm, and 358 Win....(Well I love and shoot a bunch of them) but you won't find a box of ammo for either in the village AC store at Pilot Station.

meanmrmustard
June 23, 2012, 10:50 PM
Is the all around cartridge for game, varmint, man killing, or all three? I'm still thinking the 30-30 or .308 is a really awesome choice if stuck with only one.

Does anyone here know if they still make 55 gr Accelerators in 30-30? I LOVE those !!!

B!ngo
June 23, 2012, 11:46 PM
Availability drives desirability drives availability...

This sort of poll be won by a military or ex-military cartridge, based on familiarity, until all the guys who served and trusted their lives to the cartridge have gone on to greener pastures.

Then, who knows? Maybe there will so many surplus rifles around that their chamberings will continue to dominate, but I suspect that when all the guys who carried a .30-cal rifle in battle are gone, some more "modern" cartridge will rise to the top.

My bet: A long action 6.5 or 7mm cartridge will take over the top spot, supplanting the .30-06 and .308 by the year 2030.
I'm not sure I agree with your hypothesis. The SCAR 17 (heavy) illustrates that the .308 is making a real comeback in the (U.S.) military. Given a choice between the 16 and the 17, lots of our men and women seem to prefer the heavy. So I doubt that the .308 will sunset as a result of lack of use by the mil folks.
Predictably, my vote goes with the .308W. I don't have shooting experience with 30-06 but though it seems to outperform, the price and availability of the .308W along with more platforms and models shipping that support the cartridge make it the winner of the two. And the historic argument that you just can't carry enough compared with the .223/5.56 seems to have lost it's steam.
B

Robert101
June 24, 2012, 01:56 AM
308 is the correct answer. It is a better varmit round when hand loaded and only gives up about 75 yards due to slightly lower velocity. There are many bullet choices in the 30 cal so I'd have to at least stay in that family.

Bio-Chem
June 24, 2012, 03:40 AM
A full throated defense of the 30-30 as the best all around. isn't that cute? haha

Kachok
June 24, 2012, 03:55 AM
The 30-30 is no "all around" champ, but in the brush you will likely never find the need for a bigger harder kicking rifle. That is it's home turf and few can even compete with it there. With it's heavier bonded/partitioned 170gr bullets it is even very potent medicine even for elk, not many sissy kicking compact rifles can make that claim.

meanmrmustard
June 24, 2012, 08:26 AM
A full throated defense of the 30-30 as the best all around. isn't that cute? haha
For good reason.

Ole Humpback
June 24, 2012, 04:18 PM
If you had to limit yourself to one rifle cartridge, which one would it be, and why?

It would all depend on what I was hunting and the ranges I was hunting at.

For almost all deer species and varmints, I look no further than my 257 Roberts. Its got a great combination of range, power, and lack of recoil. Elk & Black Bear at 200yds would be tricky for it though. Anything bigger than that and I feel that the cartridge just doesn't have the umph needed.

A great "everything but brown bear" under 200yd round is the 30-30. Over 200yds goes to the 30-06.

If I wanted a under 200yd North America on one cartridge, it'd be the 358 Winchester. Over 200yds goes to the 300 H&H Mag.

I wanted one cartridge for life for anything on earth, I'd have a 375 H&H Mag.

pubthumper
June 24, 2012, 05:02 PM
.30-06 has never let me down, I hunt mostly hogs/Russian boar and what pass for deer down here in the Gunshine state. Stepping up to a medium bore for a upcoming elk, moose and bear hunts- but to be honest for the antlered critters i'd be good with my '06. The bears, not so much. It'd do that work as well, just not quickly as, say, .338 Win Mag. Just my thoughs, hard to beat the good ol '06.

ErieLurker
June 25, 2012, 09:14 PM
What conventional wisdom tells me: .30-06 Springfield (Good choice)

What my head tells me: .270 Winchester (The sweet spot)

What my heart tells me: 6.5x55 Swede (Gets them warm, fuzzy feelins goin')

What my gut tells me: .375 H&H Magnum (If ya just gotta, yuh know, kill it extra dead; to paraphrase Frederick the Great "It is not enough to kill Zombies, you also have to knock them down.")

FMF Doc
June 25, 2012, 10:07 PM
When one forces them self to be constrained to just one caliber, then they must accept the things that go with that. You can't pick something that is suitable for varmint shooting and also expect it to take down a polar bear with equal efficiency. You are going to either be a bit under powered to kill that bear with a warm and fuzzy feeling, or you are going to disintegrate the ground hog. You can't really get both. The goal then, if one is looking for a "do-all" round is to find one that does "everything" acceptably. Note, however, that it will do very little ideally. There are three cartridges that I have seen kill just about everything. The best three I have found are:

- .243--well known as an all around North East round, that can kill anything from ground hog, to deer to elk, and has been known to take a few bear as well. It is most at home as a medium range deer round, but when loaded properly, up or down, can effectively take some of the smallest game as well as large elk and even bear.

- 6.8SPC—while a newer round compared to many others, it is nevertheless a formidable cartridge. It also has the advantage of being designed to function in the AR platform of rifles. This makes it as suitable for hunting as it does for defense or home and hearth.

-30-30--In many parts, and for many years, it WAS the do-all cartridge. It is not a long distance 700+ yd shooting round, but everything gives up something It has been my experience that there is nothing on 4 legs in this hemisphere that it will not kill. I might have to get closer than I want to, to a large bear, but make no mistake, it will put one down.

Some of the same could go for the .22lr (poachers have been killing every animal known to man with it for years) but I am not about to go there.

meanmrmustard
June 25, 2012, 11:06 PM
When one forces them self to be constrained to just one caliber, then they must accept the things that go with that. You can't pick something that is suitable for varmint shooting and also expect it to take down a polar bear with equal efficiency. You are going to either be a bit under powered to kill that bear with a warm and fuzzy feeling, or you are going to disintegrate the ground hog. You can't really get both. The goal then, if one is looking for a "do-all" round is to find one that does "everything" acceptably. Note, however, that it will do very little ideally. There are three cartridges that I have seen kill just about everything. The best three I have found are:

- .243--well known as an all around North East round, that can kill anything from ground hog, to deer to elk, and has been known to take a few bear as well. It is most at home as a medium range deer round, but when loaded properly, up or down, can effectively take some of the smallest game as well as large elk and even bear.

- 6.8SPC—while a newer round compared to many others, it is nevertheless a formidable cartridge. It also has the advantage of being designed to function in the AR platform of rifles. This makes it as suitable for hunting as it does for defense or home and hearth.

-30-30--In many parts, and for many years, it WAS the do-all cartridge. It is not a long distance 700+ yd shooting round, but everything gives up something It has been my experience that there is nothing on 4 legs in this hemisphere that it will not kill. I might have to get closer than I want to, to a large bear, but make no mistake, it will put one down.

Some of the same could go for the .22lr (poachers have been killing every animal known to man with it for years) but I am not about to go there.
Good response. Well written.

valnar
June 25, 2012, 11:11 PM
In defense and short range hunting, 30-30 will do it.
In longer range hunting, the .308 covers most things.

mnhntr
June 25, 2012, 11:14 PM
260 Remington!

95 Vmax for varmints, 140gr Partition for Elk & Moose, 140gr Berger Hybrids for ELR, or just rock the 140gr A-Max for darn near every purpose.

Only downside to it is a lack of widely available factory ammo...a non-factor for a reloader but a factor for some.

This

meanmrmustard
June 25, 2012, 11:17 PM
This is all around, not just hunting. I hope most remember that. That includes SHTF.

BoilerUP
June 26, 2012, 07:53 AM
This is all around, not just hunting. I hope most remember that. That includes SHTF.

Except SHTF wasn't mentioned anywhere by the OP.

If one is really, truly worried about SHTF the only weapon to own is a 223/5.56, because its not like the world is going to be swimming in 308/7.62 ammo.

I'll stick with my 260 thanks, and should circumstances lead to me NEEDING something else I'm sure there will be plenty available for me to pick up off the ground.

meanmrmustard
June 26, 2012, 08:31 AM
Except SHTF wasn't mentioned anywhere by the OP.

If one is really, truly worried about SHTF the only weapon to own is a 223/5.56, because its not like the world is going to be swimming in 308/7.62 ammo.

I'll stick with my 260 thanks, and should circumstances lead to me NEEDING something else I'm sure there will be plenty available for me to pick up off the ground.
True, but "all around" was. That to me means for shooting pert near everything that needs shooting. But, I see your point. Anything you'd hunt with would be good human medicine if necessary.

If SHTF, don't expect to find alot of 556. Something tells me military would horde it.

.260 rem is an excellent round.

longrange308
June 26, 2012, 08:43 AM
The .303 British! I mean it has killed everything on every continent in the world. And Ruger still sees fit to offer it in their No. 1 platform. What I love about my No. 4 Mk 1 is that it is really accurate and it has a 10-Shot DBM. I have had mine for 17 years now, it was made by the Long Branch Armory in Canada in 1949, its one fine rifle.

Although, the trigger is S#!?

If someone would just design an adjustable trigger!

Sav .250
June 26, 2012, 08:52 AM
"The all around"..........has changed over time. Early on maybe the Win 30-30. Then maybe the 06. Then the Mags. Now it seems like the AR`s in .223 cal are climbing to the top. J s/n.

longrange308
June 26, 2012, 08:58 AM
Really, the AR in 223 the top all-around! It seems like the fact its in 223 would eliminate it from being an all-around caliber. Or, that's my $0.02.

longrange308
June 26, 2012, 12:02 PM
No, the .303 British gets my vote! Go ahead, challenge me! "I'll give it to you good boy, I'll shoot one that way, and one that way, whoa boy!"--Shemp

meanmrmustard
June 26, 2012, 02:23 PM
No, the .303 British gets my vote! Go ahead, challenge me! "I'll give it to you good boy, I'll shoot one that way, and one that way, whoa boy!"--Shemp
Thats actually a good addition to the list of possibles.

Kachok
June 26, 2012, 04:41 PM
What conventional wisdom tells me: .30-06 Springfield (Good choice)

What my head tells me: .270 Winchester (The sweet spot)

What my heart tells me: 6.5x55 Swede (Gets them warm, fuzzy feelins goin')

What my gut tells me: .375 H&H Magnum (If ya just gotta, yuh know, kill it extra dead; to paraphrase Frederick the Great "It is not enough to kill Zombies, you also have to knock them down.")
SOOOO much truth to that, I could make a really really good case for any of those, and I own all of the above except the 375, and they all do a wide range of work, but the Sweed goes hunting way more then the others.

skoro
June 26, 2012, 05:06 PM
Seems to me it's still the 30-06.

Picher
June 26, 2012, 06:10 PM
In my younger years, I had a .30-06 for varmints and deer for about 10 years, but also had a .22 LR or two. Since getting a .270 Win, I think it's a better all-around cartridge for me, but not necessarily for everyone. I handload and can appreciate the lighter bullet loadings in the .270 for long-distance varmint hunting. The 90 grain Sierra HPs are wonderful for informal target shooting with mild loads.

The .270 Win sits in the gun safe most of the year; however, as would a .30-06, because I have a .22 WMR CZ, a .223 Rem Tikka and a .243 Win Remington 700, along with more .22 LRs than I ever thought necessary. Why? Because one rifle caliber or one rifle just isn't enough for most of us.

mastiffhound
June 26, 2012, 07:15 PM
OK, I'll bite. I was one that was told by good old Dad that .223 is for sissy's that can't handle the recoil of a real man's cartridge. It was always 30-06 or .308 that we hunted with when I was a kid. .30-30 was the least powerfull round that a man would need or use. It's what I believed for a long time too. I have since got good old Dad to reconsider his stance. Now that he has become an older gentlemen he has opened his mind a little.

I don't live in a place that has lots of long open range. It's hills and valleys that maybe could go 400 to 500 yards. I would say .223/5.56 NATO as my all around cartridge. You can go from 45 grain to 77 grain off of the store shelf. If you reload (I do ) then even heavier rounds are available. If I had to shoot more than 500 yards I would say .308 WIN., but for me it's .223. Everyone lives in different places, so everyone will have a different caliber that is best for their location.

I feel confident taking deer with heavy grain hollow point .223. Taking out coyotes, wolves, or fox to protect my chickens is a breeze. Two legged predators don't do well against it either. I feel that taking a black bear down is possible too. People have been experimenting with .223 for a long time now. It has become beyond popular. Just go to any store that sells ammo and you will have more selection for .223 than any other rifle caliber. This includes my town Walmart, Cabela's, and even the local gun shop. I'm just glad I don't actually have to pick one for real. Variety is the spice of life.

As a side note, if this was handgun cartridge I would go for .44 magnum, I read somewhere that it has been used to kill nearly every animal on the planet!

FMF Doc
June 26, 2012, 07:55 PM
The .303 British! I mean it has killed everything on every continent in the world. And Ruger still sees fit to offer it in their No. 1 platform. What I love about my No. 4 Mk 1 is that it is really accurate and it has a 10-Shot DBM. I have had mine for 17 years now, it was made by the Long Branch Armory in Canada in 1949, its one fine rifle.

Although, the trigger is S#!?

If someone would just design an adjustable trigger!
I also like this round. I think it might be the best in its class and the SMLE Mk. 4 is perhaps the best bolt action rifle ever built. If you have never handled one I can't possibly explain to you how slick the action is. The Canadian reserve forces are still issuing them to their troops and plan to through at least 2014 and maybe into 2020. In the days of semi auto assault rifles, it says something that any military, even Canada, is issuing a bolt action rifle en mas. It just works.

pubthumper
June 26, 2012, 08:39 PM
I still say .30-06. For all around, that's just good sense. And .223? Seriously? Thats absurd.

gbeecher
June 27, 2012, 11:01 AM
Even with the introduction of new cartridges and the WSM lineup, cartridges like the .30-06, .30-30 and .308 Winchester are still top sellers and usually rank in the top 5 or 10 of centerfire rifle cartridges. It's hard to argue with what's popular and what sells the most. My personal choice would be the .308 Winchester. I own a Mosin-Nagant 1891/30 and the 7.62x54r cartridge is similar, but is not as widely available as the .308 Winchester. :)

Old judge creek
June 27, 2012, 02:25 PM
Gents, I seriously doubt that there's ever been a point in history where the 30-30 was considered by more than a few fanciers as a suitable all around - all purpose cartridge. I do agree that at least in the America's, the 308 diameter family of bullets offers the widest array of choices. And I can certainly understand that depending on where we live and what we need it for, the 30-30 could well serve many of us as an excellent all purpose round... but that's a personal choice.

As well, while my personal choice for most favorite all around, general purpose cartridge is 308, I choose that with the keen awareness that the 30-06 will lend an extra 50 yards to the ballistics of the same bullet fired from a 308 case. And further, that real experience has taught me that the twist of the old 30-40 Krag will stabilize 220 grain bullets better than the aforementioned.

Personal choices are just that - personal. And whether your choice is 308 or 7mm, 30-30, or H&H500, it's still personal and based upon how your brain filters all the information you have and pops out an answer for YOU.

If indeed there was "A Perfect" all purpose / all around cartridge, I do believe 90% of what's commercially available would cease production almost immediately.

Discussions like this are worthy only if they make us think and re-evaluate our thought processes. If we aren't willing to listen to the other guy's choice and consider the treasons for his choice then what's the point of the discussion?

gazpacho
June 27, 2012, 03:26 PM
308 Winchester

In a discussion of "all around" or "all purpose" cartridges, you must include self defense. Not just self defense against the two legged variety of naughties, but also four legged.

In terms of self defense, the choice weapon would most likely be a semi-automatic rifle. Of all the full power popular hunting cartidges, three come to mind that are available in a semi-auto platform:

308 Winchester
30-06
7.62x54R

Of these three, two are rimmed cartridges, and not the best choice for a semi-automatic action, leaving the 308 Winchester.

Let me outline a possible defensive scenario. You are out hunting deer, and you manage to accidentally surprise a momma bear and her cub. Now, you didn't start out that morning expecting to shoot a bear, but there you are. In that instant, a semi-auto in your hands might be a touch more reassuring, than a bolt action whatever. If you don't like the bear scenario, then lets say you've shot your deer and now have it strung up and gutted it. You look up to see that your actions have attracted a hungry pack of wolves. Again, having a semi-auto give you a better chance of coming out of this situation alive.

There are a lot of self defense scenarios that you can consider. Just remember that when considering an all purpose cartridge.

Bio-Chem
June 27, 2012, 03:41 PM
Gazpacho you bring up a good point. Gun dictating caliber. While the .308, 30-06, 270, and 7mm Mag may be chambered for everything under the sun (in a bolt gun) other worthy calibers in that category might not be so readily available. For instance if you love the .280, but also love Savage you are going to be forced into choosing one or the other.

In your scenario where semi automatic is of prime consideration then .308 would make a very logical choice. However, I don't see many one rifle in the closet hunters choosing that platform over a bolt, or planning for the situation of fighting off a pack of wolves while hunting deer. In that situation i would hope i was lucky enough to have a tree close enough to climb. regardless of the action on my rifle.

BoilerUP
June 27, 2012, 03:45 PM
For instance if you love the .280, but also love Savage you are going to be forced into choosing one or the other.

You can turn any long-action Savage with a 308/30-06 bolt head into a 280 in less than 15 minutes!

Bio-Chem
June 27, 2012, 03:58 PM
you expect a lot of one rifle in the closet guys to go about doing something like that? incurring the extra cost of switching out barrels? or even know that this is possible? economics is presumably the reason the individual is looking for one rifle to fit the bill from varmints to elk. otherwise, like many of us on this board an individual would probably have a different caliber to fit each niche :) which in my mind is the best solution of all.

BoilerUP
June 27, 2012, 04:30 PM
My point is simply that anybody can have the rifle they WANT (action and chambering) with fairly minimal effort, especially "one rifle in the closet guys".

Bio-Chem
June 27, 2012, 05:09 PM
I understood the point. I'm really just asking your opinion. you really feel it's minimal effort, and cost for the average joe?
My thought is that the average guy is going to look at the savage website, see that they don't chamber in .280 and move on.

Salmoneye
June 27, 2012, 05:23 PM
308 Winchester
30-06
7.62x54R

Of these three, two are rimmed cartridges, and not the best choice for a semi-automatic action, leaving the 308 Winchester.

I'm sorry, what?

Again, having a semi-auto give you a better chance of coming out of this situation alive.

There are a lot of self defense scenarios that you can consider. Just remember that when considering an all purpose cartridge

It's called a Remington 7400 Carbine...

In .30-06 http://users.gmavt.net/ubavt/gifs/30.gif

MCgunner
June 27, 2012, 06:09 PM
I have a .308. I also have a 7mm Rem Mag and I can load it down to 7x57 levels or up to full magnum for long range mulie or elk. I consider it a superior caliber to any .30 short of the Win Mag for use in the open country, cross canyons, such as that, and recoil is no worse than .30-06. It is one of the more popular rounds, so components and ammo are readily available, too. It is chambered in the same long action guns available for .30-06. If I had to have ONE hunting rifle in the lower 48 (I wouldn't give up my grandpa's old .257 Roberts, lets get THAT straight :D), and being a handloader, I'd pick the 7mm Rem Mag.

I don't care for SA hunting rifles, but my buddy has a BAR in .300 Win Mag. It's also available in .338. It's a HEAVY beast, though, to carry in the mountains. I'd rather have my bolt guns. My .308 is a Remington stainless M7, very light and handy. I love that thing and it'll kill anything the 7 mag will as long as I get close enough. I'm not much of a long range shooter, anyway, 400 yards being my limit on game. The .308 would serve me well, but the 7 has a little more versatility.

MCgunner
June 27, 2012, 06:24 PM
In terms of self defense, the choice weapon would most likely be a semi-automatic rifle. Of all the full power popular hunting cartidges, three come to mind that are available in a semi-auto platform:

Your scenario for "self defense" is ridiculous. If I were that scared of bears and such, I'd stay home. I've had to pop a gator in the back with steel shot once to keep him away from me while teal hunting and I've had an early encounter with a hog one morning in the same marsh, but I don't carry a SAW into the marsh for this reason. :rolleyes: I do sling my shotgun rather than set it in the salt grass when I'm putting out the deeks, though, magazine with 2 rounds of steel. That should deter hogs and I know gators don't like it. :D

Now, I do not care for semi autos as hunting rifles AT ALL. But, they are available in LOTS of magnum calibers as well as standard hunting calibers in the guise of the Browning BAR. You'll find 'em at the link. My buddy's .300 Win Mag is 1.5 MOA accurate, can't knock it too bad for accuracy as THAT is with whatever cheap ammo he picked up at Academy.

http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/firearms/finder.asp?bg=x

Actually, THIS one is fairly light and totable. :D

http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/firearms/detail.asp?fid=002B&cid=031&tid=024&bg=x

Oh, and the versatility I wrote about for the 7mm Rem Mag, toss that out for an autoloader. Can't download the round and have reliability in an autoloader. That's one reason not to have an autoloader. I like to neck size, too, for accuracy, strike two on the autoloader. :D

paintballdude902
June 27, 2012, 06:31 PM
.30-06 for the advantage of the heavier bullets available and the edge it has with them compared to the .308

gazpacho
June 27, 2012, 11:03 PM
I never said my scenarios were likely, just possible. Also there are still places people hunt, where such a scenario IS possible. I purposefully stayed away from two legged scenarios. I'm really just pointing out that self defense is a valid topic to consider for an all around cartridge.

The rebated rim, like that of the 308 winchester was developed for the cartridge to function more reliably in semi-auto actions. Full rim cartridges like the 30-06 or 7.62x54R were designed when reliable functioning in a semi-auto action was not a real consideration. I have nothing against rimmed cartridges, and in fact I am a big fan of 30-30 as a general purpose cartridge. (Its a slightly different catagory than all around.)

I chose the three cartridges for semi-auto actions, because they are arguably the most common in the wide range of firearms. I fully understand that other cartridges are available in semi-autos. Heck, even 50 BMG is available in a semi-auto. Again, my main purpose was to include self defense as a scenario.

Salmoneye
June 27, 2012, 11:36 PM
The rebated rim, like that of the 308 winchester was developed for the cartridge to function more reliably in semi-auto actions. Full rim cartridges like the 30-06 or 7.62x54R were designed when reliable functioning in a semi-auto action was not a real consideration. I have nothing against rimmed cartridges, and in fact I am a big fan of 30-30 as a general purpose cartridge. (Its a slightly different catagory than all around.)

Can you please explain the differences between the .30-06 Springfield "Rim" and the .308 Winchester "Rim" detailing for me how one is 'acceptable' in semi-auto, yet the other is not?

Can you then compare and contrast both to the 7.62x54R "Rim" and tell me exactly how the .30-06 Springfield falls (in your opinion) in the same category as this cartridge as unacceptable for semi-auto (or full-auto) in your mind?

Then can you explain how you just now tossed .30-30 in this mix?

Thanks,

mshootnit
June 27, 2012, 11:43 PM
270 WSM deserves more than just a look. The advent of the new 6.8 SPC bullets mean that you can load up a 85 gr. TSX Barnes bullet at 3600 fps. for varmints or deer if you wish. Moving to the other end of the spectrum you have the 160 gr. Partition which will drop a moose and this load is still moving at 3100 FPS for very flat trajectory, energy, and extended range. IMO it has surpassed the 30-06 being such a thoroughly modern cartridge. I don't think there is a more multi purpose cartridge available for North American game.

sfed
June 27, 2012, 11:52 PM
The 30-06 with the extra case capacity for going large or small, the .308 bullet size has to be among the most common size on the market. 110 grain to 220 grain, and with hand loading you can tailor the round to suit anything walking on 4 legs!! Combine that with shot placement and I feel that would be my ultimate choice if I were forced to choose only one caliber rifle!! Until Obama gets the USA lined up with NATO (his ultimate mission) and disarms the American public, we have a choice for now. The USA is the ONLY NATO country with an armed public citizenship!!! Think about it and read the info on the NRA site. I am afraid Obama`s possible second term will be disaster for American gun owners!!!

JustsayMo
June 28, 2012, 12:08 AM
It would be pretty difficult to beat the 30-06 for overall versatility. 308 comes pretty close but lacks the big bullet top end.

http://www.myhostedpics.com/images/Pathfinder/bullseyebuckshotload.jpg
30-06 with a 47 grain buckshot over a tiny bit of bullseye makes a dandy bunny/grouse getter if you want something left to eat. Quiet too.

http://www.myhostedpics.com/images/Pathfinder/mg2266.jpg

These days I use the 308 as my do everything gun.

http://www.myhostedpics.com/images/Pathfinder/308fmjhrndy165041008.jpg

I shoot a variety of jacketed bullets/weights and cast bullets from 47 grains to 220 grains at both sub and supersonic velocities.

http://www.myhostedpics.com/images/Pathfinder/buckshotbulleye10.jpg
47 grains (video of it in action below)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYuz8j3ra3g

The 115 grain bullet is even better at longer ranges and can be driven faster
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_sGkLMPotw

The 220 grain cast bullet at subsonic velocity gives the same performance as the 300 Blackout

http://www.myhostedpics.com/images/Pathfinder/311284308gsr.jpg

All this on top of what the many factory offerings... You can pretty much do anything with a 30 cal rifle. The 30-30 gives a little more top end away but comes in probably the handiest field rifles out there.

http://www.myhostedpics.com/images/Pathfinder/mg2807.jpg

psyopspec
June 28, 2012, 12:16 AM
I'm surprised no one from North Dakota or somewhere has said .45-70.

Only if I'm visiting friends in AK. The gun I learned to shoot a rifle on, and have taken enough deer to have confidence in for the prarie is a .243, but many other calibers will get the job the done.

All-around, I really don't think there is one. No cartridge is universally ideal, and IMO due to that there can be no all-around ideal cartridge. There are cartridges that can do everything, even if they do some things very poorly, but I'm not interested in lugging, shooting, or feeding a .375 H&H.

If there was one that could do the most stuff fairly to very well and the least stuff poorly, I would tie it .308 and .30-06. The SMs are fine, but even with a fantasy hypothetical I'm still considering the availability and cost as a factor.

ETA: Justsay, how do I follow that? I stand (partially) corrected on inferring that large calibers aren't practical for small game. Nice!

Snag
June 28, 2012, 12:40 AM
The rebated rim, like that of the 308 winchester....

Pretty sure 308 doesn't have a rebated rim.

gazpacho
June 28, 2012, 05:41 AM
A couple of corrections on my part. I got a few things mixed up.

The 308 is rimless not rebated.

The 30-06 is also rimless. For some reason I remembered it as rimmed, or at least semi rimmed.

This may help people understand cartridge rims: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rim_(firearms)

In general, rimmed cartridges feed less reliably from box magazine than rimless cartridges do. That doesn't mean a rimmed cartridge won't feed in a magazine fed semi-auto.

30-30 is a rimmed cartridge.

The rim of the 7.62x54R and the 30-30 stick out beyond the wall of the cartridge, providing an extra surface to "hang up on". Because the rim of the 308 and 30-06 does not extend out beyond the walls of the case, there is significantly less hanging out there to get caught on.

Again, I appologise for the mix up on 30-06.

Bio-Chem
June 28, 2012, 05:48 AM
^^^I respect a guy who can go back and make corrections to his statements when questioned on them, and found to be inaccurate. manly thing to be able to admit your own mistakes.

wyohome
June 28, 2012, 05:59 AM
^^^I agree. Especially when dealing with the same rehashed hypotheticals. Someone could get their feelings hurt.

Bio-Chem
June 28, 2012, 06:10 AM
Guys, I love the .270 WSM. and i really think as a cartridge overall it has a ton of potential. If one is a reloader this might be the one that could potentially top the 30-06 in my mind. there are enough rifles manufacturers that chamber it. way more than the 7mm WSM which i actually like better because of the better selection of bullets available in 7mm than in .277. My question regarding this chambering is do you feel that a non re-loader could take full advantage of this caliber compared to the 30-06?
Let me explain myself. Looking on the cabelas site a box doesn't come in less than 35 dollars. is that cheap enough that a non re loader will get in enough range time? in areas where local gun shops don't have the selection of ammunition found on the shelves of a cabellas do you think you can always find a box of .270 WSM easily? On the website for Cabella's I only found one commercial loading in a bullet weight less than 130 grains. kind of makes me believe it might be hard to find a commercial loading that would be appropriate for varmints.
Of course if the average hunter was a re loader these questions would all be mute, but the average guy doesn't reload in my mind. making me think that the .270 winchester, or the 30-06 would still be the safer bet for the one rifle guy who doesn't reload.

What are your thoughts?

bracer
June 28, 2012, 09:38 AM
In 1952 I purchased a Winchester Mdl 70 270 Win rifle and in 1953 started reloading ammo for it using 100,110, and 130 Gr bullets. Put a Weaver K 4 scope on it in 1953. I have taken pronghorn, mule deer, elk, prairie dogs and other wonted critters with the 270 rifle. The 270 was a bit to much for shooting varmints so in 1957 got a Sako 222 Rem. After a( a hole) shot an elk that I had shot with the 270, that stood dead on its feet I started looking for a bigger rifle. So in 1964 I added a Parker Hale 308 Norma Mag for elk hunting but also used it for pronghorn and mule deer. Some years latter got a 340 Weatherby for elk shooting. I wonted a more flat shooting rifle than the 222 Rem and got a 22-250 Rem for shooting bigger varmints. By that time I found that it was fun reloading and shooting different brand of rifles and cartridges so now as an old gun nut I have tried out the 17 HM2,17 HMR, 17 Fireball, 17 Rem, 204 Ruger, 22 LR RF.22 WMR, 22 Hornet ,221 Fireball, 223 Rem, 22-250 Rem, 220 Swift, 243 Win, 6MM Rem, 257 Roberts, 25-06 Rem ,264 Win Mag, 270 Win, 30-30, 300 Savage, 308 Norma Mag and 340 Weatherby. Got some 30-06 and 7 MM Rem Mag rifles but never tried them out hunting. Still have to get a Hornady 17 Hornet for prairie dog shooting. Is there a single cartridge for shooting all the varmint and big game in the U.S.A.--- Hell No-- But the 270 was used for most of them.

Kachok
June 28, 2012, 09:39 AM
270 WSM is one tough cookie (I have one :) ), and no doubt about it is a fantastic hunting cartrage, but it is a bit hard on barrels like all small caliber magnums and should never be considered a good choice for high volume shooting (namely match or varmint), to me that is what limits it's "all around" potential. If you ever want to see how fast a deer can drop just pop them one good time with a 130gr ballistic tip at 3300-3400fps!! Put it in the boiler room and the only way they could drop any faster is if they had shorter legs.

brnmuenchow
June 28, 2012, 10:51 AM
He develops a lot of criteria, all of which may not be applicable to everybody; but he determines that there are 4 cartridges that meet all 8 of his criteria...

1) .270 Winchester
2) 7mm Remington Magnum
3) .308 Winchester
4) .30-06 Springfield

I would agree with this, I will however add for any Texan a good .30-30 Win. is really about all you need here. So it can really be subjective to were you live as well. If I live any further north were the big bears live a .45-70 Gov't. would be my all around choice.

sansone
June 28, 2012, 11:10 AM
30-06 is awesome,
my go-to rifle is chambered in .243win

meanmrmustard
June 28, 2012, 02:26 PM
While the 30-06 is WAY up that list, for where I hunt I say the 6.5x55, No deer stands a chance, it shoots better at long range then the 308 or 30-06 ever will and it does it all with an absolute minimal of recoil and noise. Varmint bullets at 3,500fps, 120gr deer thumpers at 3kfps and 156-160gr monsters that are famous for taking down polor bears, elk and moose.
I won't even get into their mainstay 140s, too much information to cover here. That truly is a do it all little gun. While there are no "inherently accurate" cartrages there are however cartrages that it is just plain easier to work up precision handloads and the 6.5x55 is king in that regard. Easier then 30-06, easier then 270 win and easier then 308 only the 243 comes close in my experience.
Dang, Kachok! Tell us how you really feel about the 6.5 Swede! Sounds like love to me.

Kachok
June 28, 2012, 10:50 PM
^ Well I was holding back a little :D

meanmrmustard
June 28, 2012, 11:28 PM
^ Well I was holding back a little :D
That's cool, man. My pet cartridge is the 223, definitely not all around, but it's nice to have that one chambering that gives you warm fuzzies.

Kachok
June 28, 2012, 11:37 PM
Yep the little 223 is a very useful cartrage, not the glamorus big game hunting cartrage, but hella useful for handeling problem yotes, recoons, bobcats, and well pretty much any nucience animal. It can be used for deer too if you are a good shot and keep your ranges reasonable. If you factor in price of ammo the 223 ranks among the most usefull cartrages even if it does not top the "all around" list.

meanmrmustard
June 28, 2012, 11:40 PM
Yep the little 223 is a very useful cartrage, not the glamorus big game hunting cartrage, but hella useful for handeling problem yotes, recoons, bobcats, and well pretty much any nucience animal. It can be used for deer too if you are a good shot and keep your ranges reasonable. If you factor in price of ammo the 223 ranks among the most usefull cartrages even if it does not top the "all around" list.
Deer and yotes are what I use it for. Farthest deer (kill and harvest, never wounded) is 180+- yards with barnes tsx. Coy dog, only fifty yards but he was coming in fast. 55 gr v max took the wind outta his howl.

It is useful, I think.

Kachok
June 28, 2012, 11:46 PM
TSX is the best bullet out there for the small calibers. Normaly I say any 22 cal will not drive deep enough, but the TSX really improves their performance as do the heavier SP bullets like the Speer 70gr and SGK 65 gr. I like shooting through and through on deer and those are the only bullets I know of for the 223 that will do that on a broadside shot.

WoodchuckAssassin
July 29, 2012, 09:53 PM
I understand the history and power surrounding the 30-06, but what if someone could neck down the 30-06 case to make it a more versital cartridge? Oh yeah, they have...many, many times. And so, I think a 25-06 is as good as it gets.

Looking at a stouter caliber, it's real hard to not include the .308 in any "one caliber" discussion.

Billcurtis
July 30, 2012, 09:45 AM
The 30-06 does it for me as the most versatile cartrige. If loaded right you can hunt anything on this planet.
Bill...

Kachok
July 30, 2012, 09:54 AM
Yes but the same can be said of several other cartrages as well, including the 270 win, 275 Rigby/7x57, 6.5x55, and 7mm Rem Mag. All of which have taken the largest game the world has to offer. Not knocking you though the 30-06 is right at the top of the heap for versatility but as is often the case it is not there alone.

CountGlockulla
July 30, 2012, 08:29 PM
I think the 30-06 is definitely being dethroned if you are under 30.

I vote .308.

meanmrmustard
July 30, 2012, 10:17 PM
TSX is the best bullet out there for the small calibers. Normaly I say any 22 cal will not drive deep enough, but the TSX really improves their performance as do the heavier SP bullets like the Speer 70gr and SGK 65 gr. I like shooting through and through on deer and those are the only bullets I know of for the 223 that will do that on a broadside shot.
I've had that success with Remington PSPs as well. They don't fragment, and expand quite well. Overall, though, I prefer the Vor-TX.

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