Just returned a CMMG .22LR conversion. Opinions?


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the count
June 22, 2012, 12:08 PM
Had a CMMG .22 conversion for the AR15 (SS version) for a week. I was really disappointed with the accuracy. I realize the AR's twist is not what a .22LR bullet likes but 7-8 inch groups at 50 yards was just terrible. That was with CCI mini mag ammo. Did I just have a bad sample?

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RCArms.com
June 22, 2012, 12:19 PM
Did you try any other 22LR ammo in it? Similar group sizes?

I run a Cinear Conversion in a Colt 10.5" on my SBR and it's a fun accurate plinker with most decent 22LR ammo I've run through it.

TonyAngel
June 22, 2012, 12:37 PM
You probably jumped the gun returning it after having tried only one type of ammo.

CharlieDeltaJuliet
June 22, 2012, 12:57 PM
I ended up buying a dedicated AR15 in .22. It is the CMMG Quebec. I love it but mainly because the barrel is a 1 in 16 twist made especially for a .22. Two things I love about it is the exposed barrel is 14.5 inches. It isnt a SBR because of 1.5" adapter inside the upper. So overall lenght is the same as an issue M4A1. The other is the feel of it. It is a mil-spec lower and an aluminium upper. That was my biggest issue with the M&P 15-22 was the polymer design. Dont get me wrong, the S&W was a great rifle. Now the bad, the only thing I cannot stand is the factory CMMG magazines. I use 27 rd. BlackDog's with metal feed lips. Other than that is is a great rifle. I paid about $475 for it and am really happy with it. But that is only because I swore off conversions due to accuracy and gas tube clogging issues.

jrdolall
June 22, 2012, 01:02 PM
I have a Ceiner(sp?) .22 drop in that is acceptable. I really was not looking for anything other than tin can accuracy and it has done that with every ammo I have tried.

the count
June 22, 2012, 02:35 PM
Actually I did shoot another brand of ammo as well, Federal bulk. Did not mention that because CCI mini mags are really high quality and if those don't work... Strange that nobody so far stated actual groups they are getting with their conversion. "Happy with..." and "good plinking" doesn't give me anything to compare my groups with :-)

RCArms.com
June 22, 2012, 02:43 PM
Actually I did shoot another brand of ammo as well, Federal bulk. Did not mention that because CCI mini mags are really high quality and if those don't work... Strange that nobody so far stated actual groups they are getting with their conversion. "Happy with..." and "good plinking" doesn't give me anything to compare my groups with :-)
I've never measured groups with mine and I'm not in the habit of creating facts out of thin air, so no group measurements from me. Sorry about the lack of useful info.

Glad to hear you tried a couple of .22 loads before returning the rifle.

Kind of reminds me of an old Bersa model 223 pistol I had. I tried about 15 seperate manufacturer's .22 loads before I found one that would cycle the pistol reliably. .22LR can be pretty ammo sensetive sometimes.

On the other hand, my Sig 522 devours anything I stuff in the magazine.

Don

CharlieDeltaJuliet
June 22, 2012, 02:49 PM
I normally shoot a 1 1/2-2 1/2" group shooting offhand at 20 yards. But this is with the dedicated and not a conversion. The 1-16 twist .22 barrel makes a world of difference. The only conversion I have shot did about double the group size... This was the "blued" conversion made by CMMG, in a 1-7 twist 5.56 barrel.

jrdolall
June 22, 2012, 02:58 PM
Well I hope to get outside this weekend and do some sho-nuff shooting. I will make a point of shooting some actual targets from a rest and give some idea of what the conversion does in my gun.

CharlieDeltaJuliet
June 22, 2012, 03:17 PM
Do you like the Ciener conversion? Does it hold the bolt open after the last round? I haven't had any run ins with them. I always see that the same magazines fit both.

ForumSurfer
June 22, 2012, 03:29 PM
I have a CMMG dedicated upper. The barrel with a proper twist rate should play a role in accuracy. Honestly can't tell you. The smallest thing I shoot at are two inch plates, I haven't shot it for groups yet.

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p188/johnnnyhgmail/AR22/3cf67c0f.jpg
http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p188/johnnnyhgmail/AR22/757909a8.jpg

Destructo6
June 22, 2012, 03:41 PM
I have 2 CMMG dedicated .22lr M4s. They're pretty reliable with Rem T-bolts, but neither can shoot a group to save their lives.

Staying on a 8.5x11" sheet of paper is the best you can hope. That's with a 3.5x Acog.

Also, the magazines are extremely difficult to load, even with the loading tool, past 15 rounds.

I also have 2 S&W M&P-15/22s. Both of these are reliable and can group nicely. Mags are very easy to load.

CharlieDeltaJuliet
June 22, 2012, 03:45 PM
I do miss the ease of loading the M&P mags... I cannot complain about the groups mine shoots, I can say however it hates Federal Bulk ammo. It has atleast one a magazine that fails to eject. I shoot CCI Blazers and Mini Mags and get great results though.

jrdolall
June 22, 2012, 03:48 PM
The Ciener does not hold the bolt back when the last round is fired. Loading the hi-cap mags is a pain for sure but I have not tried any of the loaders available. M&P mags have the button on the side that makes loading much easier.

Destructo6
June 22, 2012, 04:10 PM
To add, I noticed that both of my CMMGs have, what appears to be a chamber insert that is not completely concentric with the barrel's rifling. Looking from both ends, you can see a small ring about where a .223 chamber would end.

Yes, these are both factory CMMG dedicated .22lr M4s. Those 8.5x11" groups were from a sandbag rest at 50 yards, BTW.

I wanted to like the CMMG guns, because they're the same weight and feel as a COLT M4, but with groups like that, they are worthless to me.

CharlieDeltaJuliet
June 22, 2012, 04:18 PM
That sucks. I really love mine. I dont doubt you one bit. I would let CMMG have them back. I can centerpunch a man sized standard target with mine all day long. I mainly shoot 20-25 yards with it, but this is off hand. I would think they would fix them or atleast try. Mine is the "elvolution" Quebec model, but I am sure they are the same. Here is a photo of the insert in mine, but mine joins squarely up to the barrel. Is this what yours looks like?
http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff464/ChadJohnson1976/Shooting%20Groups/7f773b67.jpg

Dr.Rob
June 22, 2012, 04:55 PM
I haven't gotten great accuracy from mine (2.5 or so inches at 50 yards) but I haven't tried more than a couple brands of ammo;Federal Bulk pack 36gr plated hp, Federal red pack 40 gr lead RN.

Every other 22 rifle I have will out do that. I'm hoping with more shooting and different ammo brands it will improve. I haven't gotten around to buying multiple brands of 22, as I have a mountain of that Federal bulk pack.

CharlieDeltaJuliet
June 22, 2012, 05:01 PM
As I said mine is a 1 1/2-2 1/2"@ 20 yards. That isnt great but it is as good as my M&P 15-22. Both seem to perform almost the same.

steven58
June 22, 2012, 08:21 PM
I have a .22 conversion kit that I run in my Bravo Co. Midlength AR. with bulk high velocity 22 long rifle ammo I get about 3" to 4" groups at 25 yd. This is good enough for my purpose of practicing CQB type drills on multiple full size targets.

60 gr. Aquila Sniper Subsonics give me 1" groups at 25 yd. and are very reliable However, they tend to be a bit more expensive than the Federal bulk pack I usually run.

I have other .22 LR rifles for precision. The conversion kit's sole purpose is to increase my AR trigger time at minimum cost. It lets me experience the optics, trigger and overall manual of arms of my AR for far less money than 5.56 ammo will allow.

the count
June 22, 2012, 08:24 PM
I haven't gotten great accuracy from mine (2.5 or so inches at 50 yards) but I haven't tried more than a couple brands of ammo;Federal Bulk pack 36gr plated hp, Federal red pack 40 gr lead RN.

Every other 22 rifle I have will out do that. I'm hoping with more shooting and different ammo brands it will improve. I haven't gotten around to buying multiple brands of 22, as I have a mountain of that Federal bulk pack.
I could live with 2.5" groups at 50Y with a conversion, but like I said in the beginning I was getting 7-8". So no regrets. However, I also have a Volquarsten 22LR with fluted barrel and all the goodies. Sure, this gun costs almost twice what a bargain AR15 goes for but hey, I get .5 to 1" groups at 50Y with super sonic ammo like CCI mini mags. For a semi auto that pretty good.

Tempest 455
June 22, 2012, 10:24 PM
I guess I'm different that I don't equate .22 AR conversions w/ being accurate .22 target rifles. They are what they are. Fun and cheap way to shoot .22 out of your AR at short distance. I have a stainless CMMG and like it for what it is. A short range conversion, fun to shoot but not going to be a tack driver.

If I want to be accurate w/ a .22, I get out my Savage TRR SR.

shootniron
June 22, 2012, 10:45 PM
I have the CMMG and it has always been fantastic. It will shoot anything as long as you run it wet...which is the same way I run it centerfire. I have just never been one to run my ARs dry.

DMH
June 23, 2012, 12:26 AM
I have a DPMS dedicated .22lr upper in a bull (heavy) barrel configuration. This became available about December 2011 (DPMS released another conversion a few years early that did not do well) They had 2 styles avalable in late 2011, one with sights and normal (m4), one heavy barrel and no sights (bull). It uses Black Dog magazines. Like said earlier they are not as easy to load the magazine as the M&P Smith and Wesson ar.22 but its not horrible. The accuracy at 50 yards is great. I put a 4x14 40mm Cabelas scope with side focus. 2" groups @50 yards on bench with sand bag. It has exceeded my expectations. I mainly use cci Blazer ammunition.

DMH

Dr.Rob
June 23, 2012, 02:17 AM
I could live with 2.5" groups at 50Y with a conversion, but like I said in the beginning I was getting 7-8". So no regrets.


I'm not comparing target rifles.. rather to a 30 year old Marlin 995 that I can and have shot sub 2inch groups with at 100 yards. See here: http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=36391&d=1141242343

Like I said, will try more different kinds of ammo.

jrdolall
June 25, 2012, 05:21 PM
The Ciener does not hold the bolt back when the last round is fired

Sorry for this bad information but the Ciener DOES hold the bolt open after the last shot with the 25 round mags. I did not have the 10 round mag with me to verify. I guess I was thinking about my 10-22 tacti-cool or maybe I just was not thinking at all.

I shot 250 rounds of Blazer ammo through the Ciener conversion kit and a DPMS AR with a 2X red dot scope today. After sighting in the scope I was consistently in a 1.5" circle at 50 yards using a Lead Sled with only a few shots outside the circle. It had some trouble feeding Remington bulk in the first mag so I went to Blazer and stayed with it. I shot 50 rounds ar a prairie dog spinning target and was 48-50 aiming mostly at the head. I meant to keep the targets (styro plates with a circle drawn in the middle) and then tossed them before I left.

I switched back to the .223 and emptied a 30 rounder with no problems. At 50 yds I was about 2-3" high with the .223.

ColdDayInHell
August 28, 2012, 04:30 PM
I just got my CMMG stainless drop in kit for my M&P 15 and I love it! It couldn't be more fun and it is pretty accurate out of a 5.56 barrel. It's a range gun guys! Stop trying to make it something it's not. It's a quality kit that saves money on ammo while utilizing the sights on your AR.

ugaarguy
August 28, 2012, 04:53 PM
.22LR has a .221" bore diameter, while .223 Rem / 5.56 NATO have a .224 bore diameter. The correct bore diameter and the much slower twist are why the dedicated uppers are much more accurate than the drop in kits.

gotigers
August 28, 2012, 05:35 PM
I had a CMMG conv kit. I hated it. It was terrible from 1st shot to the 1000th. Stove pipes, failure to feeds, very inaccurate, etc, etc. I did all of their suggested trouble shooting. Never got better. They finally replaced it. The new one was no better.

Tempest 455
August 28, 2012, 08:13 PM
I had a CMMG conv kit. I hated it. It was terrible from 1st shot to the 1000th. Stove pipes, failure to feeds, very inaccurate, etc, etc. I did all of their suggested trouble shooting. Never got better. They finally replaced it. The new one was no better.

What rifle? I honestly think I have never had a stove pipe w/ mine in a Bushmaster after thousand plus rounds.

beex215
August 29, 2012, 12:37 AM
not accurate at all i think i was shooting federal ae 40g lead. at only 20-30 feet the results were about 2-3 inches.

the magazine is such a failure. the lips holding the ammo is in a slight v shape, causing jams everytime. i had to put tape on the lips to help hold the ammo down. that worked.

mljdeckard
August 29, 2012, 08:43 AM
I agree with Tony in post #3. The pluses of hot ammo are that it will reliably cycle actions with heavier than normal slides or bolts. I love them for my 1911 conversion. But a faster, hotter round doesn't necessarily equal a more accurate round.

I have a CMMG upper, I haven't benched it, (yet) but I can zap pebbles all day long as far as I can see them.

ColdDayInHell
September 2, 2012, 03:54 AM
I just shot off 150 rounds today with the Stainless CMMG drop in kit. It was in my M&P15 and it worked great! Everyone at the range was asking about it and I let them shoot some rounds off. They loved it too.

But, I found that Winchester M22 (garbage) has some FTF, resulting in the round getting jammed in the charging handle. This can be fixed by buying the Anti-jam charging handle which will run you about $22. Federal 525 bulk ran flawless like always and the CMMG eats it like candy. I will be on the lookout for Federal now. Enjoy!!!

jpwilly
September 2, 2012, 08:19 PM
These were my 50yrd results testing my CMMG kit in my DPMS AR-15 20" bbl with 1-9 twist:

I'd take most of the reports of poor accuracy with a grain of salt.

Wolf Match Target shoot the most cosistanly:

http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p38/jpwilly/DPMS50yrd.jpg

Mr.Revolverguy
September 2, 2012, 08:45 PM
Love it so much I entered it in the rifle matches on this site.

I put a two stage trigger in it today and was amazed at the accuracy.

August Rimfire Match Entry, Pictures of the rifle and targets. (http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=8381755&postcount=104)

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