Romanian WASR vs Unconverted Saiga


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Noah
June 23, 2012, 08:13 PM
http://www.classicfirearms.com/product-specials/romanian-wasr10

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct796.aspx

I've been looking into getting an AK for several months now. I've put in many hours online, at gunshows, ect and I've narrowed it down these two, but I can't decide between the two. I don't plan on converting the Saiga as I don't trust myself to do it well enough. The gun would be primarily for target shooting but RKBA/ WROL/ defense is still a consideration as my family does not possess a semi auto carbine in an intermediate (or full size) cartridge ( can I say assault rifle here? JK :neener:

Cost is a large factor, particularly ammunition cost, which is why I'd want the Saiga in 5.45.

I would greatly appreciate your experience with Saigas and comparable WASR-10s, particularly just how much disparity exists in the accuracy/ quality of the two.

I can afford an Arsenal but do not want to spend my life savings. Although I am fortunate enough to be employed at 16 I only make minimum wage :o

If I chose the Saiga and decided I needed hi caps and a PG I have access to the tools to convert it, but would need to develop the skills; and purchase the parts and the tap for the bullet guide screw. I don't plan on converting it, at least not initially.

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meanmrmustard
June 23, 2012, 08:20 PM
I have no experience with WASR, but rather Galil, Maadi, Saigas. The Saiga is a very good gun. I highly recommend it if you go that route.

TurtlePhish
June 23, 2012, 09:51 PM
Saiga. Much better gun. Unconverted, it's still more of an AK than a WASR could ever hope to be. ;)

Conversions aren't hard, go slow and careful. Find a good guide and stick to it. They're perfectly serviceable in sporter form, anyway.

sodajerk
June 23, 2012, 10:37 PM
How much are you talking about spending? The saiga is a better gun hands down but if you want the traditional AK look check out Norinco Mak90, they can be converted to a traditional look easier than the saiga and are far supieror to a wasr.

MiniZ
June 23, 2012, 10:51 PM
I would choose a Saiga, even unconverted, over a WASR.

Even if you decide not to do a full conversion on a Saiga, at least convert it to the point that the trigger is back in the proper location.

FMJMIKE
June 23, 2012, 10:52 PM
Saiga !!!

Driftertank
June 23, 2012, 11:55 PM
Saiga

benatilstate
June 24, 2012, 12:10 AM
Saigas seem to have a much better reputation. Ive never shot one, so I cant say. What I will say about a gun that I did have, is that I dont think the WASR deserves its bad rap. Maybe I got lucky, but I never had any problems with mine. It did have some 'trigger slap' early on, but that was at most mildly uncomfortable and was easily remedied with a TAPCO trigger group. Just my $.02.

Noah
June 24, 2012, 08:18 AM
Thanks for the input guys, so far far it's a unanimous vote in favor of the Saiga haha.

Anyone have suggestions on where to get the kit to convert it? I'd need the bullet guide to include the proper tap bit.

What new parts are needed to complete the relocated trigger group?

meanmrmustard
June 24, 2012, 08:42 AM
Go to carolinashootersupply.com

Rob G
June 24, 2012, 09:19 AM
I'd go with the Saiga as well. When converted they're really sweet rifles. Even unconverted they're pretty nice except for the trigger being a little off. Plus as you stated you can get them in 5.45 which is a big deal when you can buy 1080 round spam cans of that ammo for $140.

If you can stretch your budget just a touch you might consider this model of Saiga: http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct1076.aspx

It's $90 more than the one in your original post but the front end conversion is already done which is actually the hardest part of converting them anyway. All you would have to do to make it a full AK is convert the back end and add a muzzle brake.

Good luck with whatever you choose and be careful, AKs are addictive and tend to multiply.

Noah
June 24, 2012, 01:17 PM
I have considered that model, but I wasn't sure it would be worth it as I could live with the Saiga foregrip. the PG/ hi caps are a higher priority. I also read that that model lacks a heat shield, however I don't know if that's important. I'm not the bump-fire-a-75rnd-drum type. I prefer to hit my target, paper or otherwise ;)

Would a 5.45 Saiga be 922r compliant with the original foregrip, US PG, US Stock, and a US mag? Would it require a US foregrip to legally take a foreign mag beyond 10rnd capacity?

How do you remove the "thread protector"?

Inebriated
June 24, 2012, 01:49 PM
You can have no more than 10 foreign parts, and there are a total of 16 parts on the Saiga.

To use the PG and the 10+ magazines, you need 6 US parts. A stock, grip, and trigger group are 5 parts (trigger group counts as 3). So you could either do a US follower in your magazines (or use Tapco/US Palm magazines that are US-made), or a US-made handguard, which is probably the way to go. There are several options for the standard Saiga handguards out there. Just a note about magazines... to use non-Saiga magazines, you have to install a bullet guide. Very easy, and $20 from CSS.

To remove the "thread protector", just get a Dremel. If you're a chosen one, you'll have factory threads. Otherwise, you'll have to thread it yourself (very easy).

I suggest you head over to Saiga-12.com, where it's all about Saigas and conversions.

Noah
June 24, 2012, 01:51 PM
Looked at parts at CarolinaShooterSupply. I was happy to see they sold all of the varieties of bullet guides with taps included, thanks for the link. I was surprised at how expensive the retaining brackets for the handguards cost- $50!

What would you guys recommend? Could I leave an IZ240 model with the original non-AK style forend?

Edit- Read the last post. You meant no more than 10 foreign parts, right? Or I'm I really really lost instead of just lost?

I think I've decided on the IZ-240 from Atlantic. I'll install a bullet guide, a US grip, US stock (probably Tapco for both), and use US manufactured mags, also Tapco. The lack of AK-74 cosmetics (forend, muzzle brake) is OK with me.


Where is the best site with in stock 5.45 tins? Was thinking Sportsman's Guide as Dad is a buyer's club member.
Is their a better place to get the Saiga? Centerfire systems has cheaper shipping but Atlantic seems better.
Does anyone have experience with the Tapco sidefolder stock? Does it wobble after use, wear, and tear?
Assuming their FFL is on file, what information do I need to pass on to the FFL after I order?

Inebriated
June 24, 2012, 02:02 PM
Yeah, that would work fine. Just make sure you have enough US parts and a bullet guide, and you're good.

If you think you'll ever do a full conversion, I'd just say get an Arsenal.

Inebriated
June 24, 2012, 02:13 PM
Edit- Read the last post. You meant no more than 10 foreign parts, right? Or I'm I really really lost instead of just lost?

I think I've decided on the IZ-240 from Atlantic. I'll install a bullet guide, a US grip, US stock (probably Tapco for both), and use US manufactured mags, also Tapco. The lack of AK-74 cosmetics (forend, muzzle brake) is OK with me.


Where is the best site with in stock 5.45 tins? Was thinking Sportsman's Guide as Dad is a buyer's club member.
Is their a better place to get the Saiga? Centerfire systems has cheaper shipping but Atlantic seems better.
Does anyone have experience with the Tapco sidefolder stock? Does it wobble after use, wear, and tear?
Assuming their FFL is on file, what information do I need to pass on to the FFL after I order?

Yeah, I fixed it lol. That sounds like you're compliant. Without the muzzle device, you only need 5 US parts, so 3 from the magazine, 1 from the grip, and 1 from the stock.

As far as WHERE, it depends on who has them... They've been kind of hard to find lately. I would check Atlantic Firearms regularly, Buds might have them, just gotta search around. The gun shows always have them in my area, so check that out as well.

I've never handled the Tapco stock, but I'll say their grip is just... Eh... I'd recommend US Palm or Hogue (I'm pretty sure they're US-made).

One_Jackal
June 24, 2012, 02:22 PM
The russian made saiga is hard to find anymore. The American made saiga is expensive for a few bucks more I can buy a BAR. At least your Grandkids can sell the BAR for a fat profit. Saiga will be dust in the wind.

Inebriated
June 24, 2012, 02:31 PM
Ease up there, you're being entirely too helpful...:rolleyes:

Noah
June 24, 2012, 03:02 PM
Thanks for the help Inebriated. The cost of the Saiga given a bare-bones conversion as I plan and 1000rnds of ammo would be no more than the WASR and 1000 rounds or so. At that point it's a pretty easy choice.

plouffedaddy
June 24, 2012, 04:20 PM
I'd take a WASR (if it is a recent build over the Saiga if you don't plan on converting it. CAI's warranty is pretty good and if you get a WASR and anything's wrong CAI will fix it. A properly built WASR is a fine AK, problem is a lot of them aren't properly built but CAI has made great strides in QA/QC in the past couple years.

ifit
June 24, 2012, 04:28 PM
i would skip the saiga, and pick the romy if its made at the cuguir factory on the left side of the receiver should indicate this. the cugir ak is as close to owning as close to an original akm still being imported to this day without any stinkin conversion like saiga, look what you have to do to convert them, time and more $$$. the cugir romys....nothing. dont have a saiga probably will never own one, well maybe thier shotguns. i have 4 cugir built type ak variants and no regret purchasing them, they may not be made in mother russia frankly i dont give a poop, if it works like any ak should at a good price im buyin, and it may not look pretty like the saiga/arsenal but i buy it to shoot not for entering a beauty contest.

as for accuracy shooting offhand w/irons, found on youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSuAPjw2Jgw&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiuuW3Mc8qA&list=PLEC9E573CEBBBE9E5&index=6&feature=plcp

meanmrmustard
June 24, 2012, 04:34 PM
Izhmash of Russia. It is made (wait for it!)...in Russia! WASRs are too hit or miss with quality, and accuracy is substandard (IMHO having shot a half dozen in recent months) even for AKs. To each their own though.:)

msrfrog
June 24, 2012, 04:36 PM
I have a saiga 7.62 and love it sporter right now and it is fine.
The quality for the price is way better than others I looked at.
Reasonably accurate also, I shoot it better than when I used my friends big $$$ AR.
I personally like the fact it is made in Russia in the same factory that produce real AKs. They must have some kind of pride while making them I would think.
Not to mention all the stuff available for them.

.338-06
June 24, 2012, 04:55 PM
I have a .308 Saiga and it's great! I bought the conversion kit from Carolina Shooter Supply and a big thumbs up for them.

One thing though, I read EVERY THREAD on converting the Saiga I could find. They ALL started the same way-drilling out the pins. Guess what? YOU DO NOT DRILL OUT THE PINS ON THE .308 SAIGAS!!! Not a single conversion post mentioned this.:cuss:

Yes, I did feel very stupid. Gun works fine now.

Rob G
June 24, 2012, 06:42 PM
OP, when you do the conversion you're going to have to replace the trigger group completely. Use a Tapco G2 for this. Then use a US made stock and US made pistol grip. For the stock use what you like, for the pistol grip I'd recommend US Palm or Hogue. That brings your US made parts count to 5 which for an AK without a muzzle attachment is 922r complian. At this point you can use 100% foreign made magazines, which I strongly recommend.

The commbloc mags are more expensive and harder to find than Tapcos and PMags (at the moment at least) but they're much better built. Tapco and PMags don't have any metal reinforcement in them and I've had my share that have broken in ways that can't be repaired. I've had zero issues with my commie mags though and I abuse them pretty badly.

For ammo try sgammo.com. They routinely have the 1080 round cans of Russian 5.45 for $140. Aimsurplus.com also has really great prices on it but last I checked they were temporarily out of stock.

bri
June 24, 2012, 09:02 PM
Saiga, hands down. I purchased all my conversion parts from CSS. If you're not comfortable doing the conversion yourself, find someone that's good with tools and ask for some assistance. :)

Noah
June 24, 2012, 09:14 PM
Thanks for the advice everyone, particularly the warnings against the Tapco grips. I probably would have gotten one otherwise.

For ammo try sgammo.com.

Rob G, thanks for the link but sgammo is currently out of the 5.45 :(
Could I use foreign mags with a US made trigger group, stock, and pistol grips, no muzzle device but the original Russian forend?

If I got the following:
http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-891/Saiga-Rilfe-Conversion-Kit/Detail
http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-746/UPGRADE-CONVERSION-KIT-GRIP/Detail
http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-1351/%23262-dsh--RED-THREAD-LOCKER/Detail] (http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-1351/%23262-dsh--RED-THREAD-LOCKER/Detail)
http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-604/Saiga-5.45-Bullet-Guide/Detail OR http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-1016/5.45x39-round-bullet-guide/Detail

Would that give me everything I needed for the conversion? I think I included everything, but that wouldn't be worth much if I didn't think of everything :D

Noah
June 24, 2012, 09:27 PM
I would be doing the work in my grandfather's carpentry shop, about 400 feet from my house. He is an experienced carpenter, his current hobby is making 18" doll furniture. He's almost always working and would be more than happy to help- and provide a nice, old drill press of the "they don't make them this nice anymore" variety. From wooden swords and guns years ago, to my brother's new GI aperture sights for his 10/22, he has been glad to share his experience. He's probably the nicest person I've ever met. He was a psychologist for 40-odd years, and even started writing a book about the importance of gladly helping younger kids build toy guns and birdhouses to get them interested in carpentry.

ifit
June 24, 2012, 09:28 PM
correct me if im wrong, but does the saiga conversion also need a bullet guide?

Noah
June 24, 2012, 09:29 PM
I read it will take hi caps without one but most people have feeding troubles particularly in the the last ten rounds.

Rob G
June 25, 2012, 12:49 AM
Rob G, thanks for the link but sgammo is currently out of the 5.45

That sucks. Try here: www.southernohiogun.com The way they do theirs 36 packs = one spam can and 72 = one crate.

Could I use foreign mags with a US made trigger group, stock, and pistol grips, no muzzle device but the original Russian forend?


Absolutely. That is a legal configuration. You could even add a muzzle device if you wanted as long as it was US made.

Would that give me everything I needed for the conversion?

I'm pretty sure that's everything. I can't think of anything you're missing.

correct me if im wrong, but does the saiga conversion also need a bullet guide?

@ifit In general the saiga conversions need one because the saiga rifles use a proprietary magazine that has the bullet guide built in so the rifle itself doesn't have one. So if you want to use surplus mags you need to add a bullet guide. I've met a few people with the 5.45 models that don't have a bullet guide though and their rifles function fine. Although they did say that it's only that specific caliber that seems to work without one.

Noah
June 25, 2012, 07:54 AM
Try here: www.southernohiogun.com The way they do theirs 36 packs = one spam can and 72 = one crate.

As I live in Ohio wouldn't I have to pay sales tax? At 6.5% that would add about $10... :(

Gordon_Freeman
June 25, 2012, 11:14 AM
I recommend saving up the money for an Arsenal SGL. The Saiga conversion seems like it would be too much trouble unless you are a gunsmith.

bri
June 25, 2012, 12:03 PM
I recommend saving up the money for an Arsenal SGL. The Saiga conversion seems like it would be too much trouble unless you are a gunsmith.
Is your comment based on experience? Saiga "conversions" need not be done by a gunsmith. Basic tools, common sense and YouTube are all you need.

Rob G
June 25, 2012, 03:13 PM
As I live in Ohio wouldn't I have to pay sales tax? At 6.5% that would add about $10...

Oh, didn't realize you lived in Ohio until just now. Yeah, you'd have to pay sales tax. It's still a great price for 1,080 rounds of ammo.

Noah
June 25, 2012, 08:28 PM
Oh, didn't realize you lived in Ohio until just now. Yeah, you'd have to pay sales tax. It's still a great price for 1,080 rounds of ammo.

Great price or not, the extra tax takes away the competitive edge vs. The Sportsman's Guide. My family has ordered ammo from them several times and we have been very satisfied.


I recommend saving up the money for an Arsenal SGL. The Saiga conversion seems like it would be too much trouble unless you are a gunsmith.

I understand the Arsenal is a better AK with no conversion. But, as I pointed out in my OP, it is not the case that I have only saved enough for the Saiga/WASR. I have saved enough to get an Arsenal, but have made an unforced decision against getting one for the sake of frugality. I make minimum wage at a grocery store, and while I do not have many financial responsibilities yet beyond my car, lunches, insurance, and gas (and ammo ;) ), money comes slowly and every $1 counts.

To quote Thomas Jefferson (at least the Colonial Williamsburg reenactor haha) on how to be financially responsible:

1. Take care of your pennies and your dollars will take care of themselves.
2. Don't buy something you neither truly want nor need simply because it is cheap.
3. Never spend money that you do not possess.

:cool:

meanmrmustard
June 25, 2012, 08:52 PM
Arsenal IS THE Saiga with conversion. A Russian AK is just that, a Russian AK. Go with Russian. They invented, developed, and mass produced one if not THE most significant rifle in history. Needless to say, they know their stuff. Go Saiga.

Noah
June 25, 2012, 09:57 PM
My LGS is closed Monday and Tuesday. I'll visit them Wednesday and see if they have a Saiga (small chance but a maybe) and if not, ask them to fax their FFL to Atlantic Firearms as they're not yet on their list. Then I'll order the gun, and ammo from The Sportsman's Guide.

Once I receive the gun, I'll order all the parts from Carolina Shooter's supply according to the trunnion type I receive. I plan on getting a pair of Tapco mags along with the conversion parts order, and then foreign mags as I can.

While I wait for the parts, I'll shoot it a bit, and disassemble and reassemble it a few times to get myself fully familiar with the layout.

I would prefer to do the bullet guide first, but I believe I actually have to do the PG, trigger, and stock first to keep things 922r compliant. I'll do the whole conversion according to a video guide.

Any recommendations on which to use?

Thanks so much for all the help and advice. I'm sure I'll be even more grateful once I have the converted rifle, in 5.45 and equipped with a Hogue grip. :neener:

meanmrmustard
June 25, 2012, 10:02 PM
My LGS is closed Monday and Tuesday. I'll visit them Wednesday and see if they have a Saiga (small chance but a maybe) and if not, ask them to fax their FFL to Atlantic Firearms as they're not yet on their list. Then I'll order the gun, and ammo from The Sportsman's Guide.

Once I receive the gun, I'll order all the parts from Carolina Shooter's supply according to the trunnion type I receive. I plan on getting a pair of Tapco mags along with the conversion parts order, and then foreign mags as I can.

While I wait for the parts, I'll shoot it a bit, and disassemble and reassemble it a few times to get myself fully familiar with the layout.

I would prefer to do the bullet guide first, but I believe I actually have to do the PG, trigger, and stock first to keep things 922r compliant. I'll do the whole conversion according to a video guide.

Any recommendations on which to use?

Thanks so much for all the help and advice. I'm sure I'll be even more grateful once I have the converted rifle, in 5.45 and equipped with a Hogue grip. :neener:
Good on you! Wise choice. I'll watch what I can to help.

ThePenguinKnight
June 25, 2012, 11:07 PM
You can have no more than 10 foreign parts, and there are a total of 16 parts on the Saiga.

To use the PG and the 10+ magazines, you need 6 US parts. A stock, grip, and trigger group are 5 parts (trigger group counts as 3). So you could either do a US follower in your magazines (or use Tapco/US Palm magazines that are US-made), or a US-made handguard, which is probably the way to go. There are several options for the standard Saiga handguards out there. Just a note about magazines... to use non-Saiga magazines, you have to install a bullet guide. Very easy, and $20 from CSS.

To remove the "thread protector", just get a Dremel. If you're a chosen one, you'll have factory threads. Otherwise, you'll have to thread it yourself (very easy).

I suggest you head over to Saiga-12.com, where it's all about Saigas and conversions.

Not quite correct. Without a muzzle device, a converted Saiga has 15 parts that count for 922r; the standard AKM has 16 parts that count. So ignoring the muzzle device, a back-end conversion (buttstock, pistol grip, and trigger/sear/disconnector) gets you to the maximum 10 foreign parts and you're legal for foreign 10+ capacity magazines. With that setup, you would not be able to attach a foreign muzzle device and still be compliant with 922r, but there are American made muzzle devices you can use, or you could replace another part as mentioned above.

For the record, I went with the Saiga IZ-332 (the 7.62x39 with the front end already done up) and converted the rear (Hogue grip is excellent). I used an American made muzzle brake available from Carolina Shooter Supply, styled like the AK-74 brake. The brake is really effective at reducing muzzle climb and makes a noticeable difference in recoil, and it retains compliance with 922r, but I won't be using it when I take the rifle to the woods due to the extra noise coming back at me :P.

The conversion itself is much, much, much simpler than you think it is. You'll be done and enjoying the rifle before you know it. I went extremely slow and was still done in just a couple hours, and the rifle came out looking and working great. Best of all, it shoots into 2" or less at 100yds (scoped, using two different shooters) with the cheap soft point ammo from the box store. The 5.45x39 model is famed for being yet more accurate, so I have no doubt you'll be pleased.

If you need a hand with the process, feel free to message me. Also, check the Saiga forums for more instructions and information.

(For the record, I have nothing against WASRs; I just like rRussian guns, and especially factory new parts.)

Rob G
June 26, 2012, 12:19 AM
Great price or not, the extra tax takes away the competitive edge vs. The Sportsman's Guide. My family has ordered ammo from them several times and we have been very satisfied.

Makes sense. If they're competetive and you like the service then that's the place to buy from.

If you're interested in combloc mags for it get yourself an account over on ak47.net There are always people on that forum selling off '74 mags for less than what you'd pay at an online retailer. I actually picked up a pair of East German bakelites there the other day for $45, which sounds like a lot but it's practically theft for bakelites.

Good luck with your project and post pics when you're done.

hboy35
June 26, 2012, 09:57 AM
I saw your advice to yourself and me thinks you wise beyond your years young grasshopper:

"To quote Thomas Jefferson (at least the Colonial Williamsburg reenactor haha) on how to be financially responsible:

1. Take care of your pennies and your dollars will take care of themselves.
2. Don't buy something you neither truly want nor need simply because it is cheap.
3. Never spend money that you do not possess."

Noah
June 26, 2012, 10:19 AM
Well, I plan on applying to the Merchant Marine Academy later this year, and while I don't necessarily like politics, who knows? :neener:

Noah
July 5, 2012, 08:25 PM
My dad and I went to the LGS to pick up my IZ-240 from Atlantic Firearms today. I've shot the rifle 30 times or so, after that I was ready for some air conditioning :evil:

I'm wildly impressed with every aspect of the rifle but can't stand the trigger. My favorite feature is actually the forend, it's very comfortable to me, and I'll definitely be keeping it. The trigger, however... let's just say I had been thinking of delaying the conversion for a while until I used the trigger. Today or tomorrow I'll place an order at Carolina Shooter Supply.

My rifle came with a flat trunnion. It also came with an empty oil bottle, a rod too big for the rifle (possibly for 7.62?) and a rod accessories kit that I can't figure out how to open :o

meanmrmustard
July 5, 2012, 08:31 PM
My dad and I went to the LGS to pick up my IZ-240 from Atlantic Firearms today. I've shot the rifle 30 times or so, after that I was ready for some air conditioning :evil:

I'm wildly impressed with every aspect of the rifle but can't stand the trigger. My favorite feature is actually the forend, it's very comfortable to me, and I'll definitely be keeping it. The trigger, however... let's just say I had been thinking of delaying the conversion for a while until I used the trigger. Today or tomorrow I'll place an order at Carolina Shooter Supply.

My rifle came with a flat trunnion. It also came with an empty oil bottle, a rod too big for the rifle (possibly for 7.62?) and a rod accessories kit that I can't figure out how to open :o
Pictures?

Rob G
July 5, 2012, 11:44 PM
Congratulations on the new rifle!

I'm wildly impressed with every aspect of the rifle but can't stand the trigger.
Yeah, it sucks pretty bad. That's probably one of the biggest reasons people convert them.

It also came with an empty oil bottle, a rod too big for the rifle (possibly for 7.62?) and a rod accessories kit that I can't figure out how to open
My Arsenal came with none of those but I'm going to assume that's all cleaning stuff. You won't need any of it really. Get a bore snake for the barrel. Everything else you need you probably already own if you have other guns.

If you want to shoot corrosive ammo (which it sounded like you did) then also add a can of WD 40 and plastic spray bottle (for water) to your cleaning supplies. The spray bottle is to wash the salt from the corrosive ammo out of the gun. The WD 40 you use to chase the water out. Then clean as normal.

Noah
July 6, 2012, 09:15 AM
Thanks for the tip on employing WD-40 after the water. I'm familiar with cleaning up after shooting corrosive ammo in my Mosin, and your method sounds better than mine: microwave 4 cups of water in a glass beaker, pour it done the barrel (taken out of the stock, action removed), which heats the barrel to the point I need insulation to handle it, which mostly dries in a few minutes, followed by several dry patches, then some with solvent, and then a few more dry ones.

I had the foresight to pick up a boresnake when I was at the LGS last week, so an incompatible cleaning rod is ok with me.

Attachments:

1. The rifle.
2. Tried to take a cell phone picture of the sight picture, turned out ok-ish.
3. "Fime group" importation markings.
4. The trunnion. Took me a while trying to set it up so it was visible, but ended up just using a flashlight.

Noah
July 6, 2012, 09:18 AM
5. Accessories
6. Rod accessories. Can't figure out how to open it :p
7. One of my 1020 remaining rounds of surplus next to the rod. A close look shows the rod to be of a larger diameter than the bullet.


I've gotten a bit more used to the trigger... but it's still very bad.

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