Largest capacity wad


PDA






blarby
June 24, 2012, 11:06 AM
For use in a 2.75" STS/gun club hull.

Thoughts ? Links ?

Don't necessarily care about the correct primer/powder "alignment" nor the wads' preferred shot type.

Just the one that has the most capacity, and works in an STS/gunclub hull.

If you enjoyed reading about "Largest capacity wad" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
243winxb
June 24, 2012, 11:58 AM
www.hodgdon.com shot shells under DATA I have used the WAA12R, it will hold a lot of shot with some data. But not all the shot will be inside the wad. This leaves it unprotected from the bore. Out of round pellets will not give a tight pattern.

243winxb
June 24, 2012, 12:03 PM
Lead Shot 12 1 1/2 oz. HS-7 FED. 209 Rem. R12H 36 10,600 LUP 1260
Lead Shot 12 1 1/2 oz. HS-7 Win. 209 WAA12R 35.5 10,300 LUP 1260
Lead Shot 12 1 1/2 oz. SR 4756 Rem. 209P Rem. RP12 27 11,200 PSI 1150
Lead Shot 12 1 1/2 oz. SR 4756 Rem. 209P WAA12R 27.5 11,000 PSI 1150
Lead Shot 12 1 1/2 oz. SR 4756 Win. 209 WAA12R 26.5 11,200 PSI 1150
Lead Shot 12 1 1/2 oz. 800-X Fed. 209A Rem. RP12 22 11,200 PSI 1150
Lead Shot 12 1 1/2 oz. 800-X Fed. 209A WAA12R 22.5 11,300 PSI 1150
Lead Shot 12 1 1/2 oz. 800-X Rem. 209P Rem. RP12 23 11,200 PSI 1150
Lead Shot 12 1 1/2 oz. 800-X Rem. 209P WAA12R 23.5 11,200 PSI 1150
Lead Shot 12 1 1/2 oz. 800-X Win. 209 Rem. RP12 22.5 11,300 PSI 1150
Lead Shot 12 1 1/2 oz. 800-X Win. 209 WAA12R 23 11,200 PSI 1150
Lead Shot 12 1 1/2 oz. Longshot Rem. 209P Rem. RP12 25 11,500 PSI 1205
Lead Shot 12 1 1/2 oz. Longshot Rem. 209P WAA12R 24.8 11,000 PSI 1205
Lead Shot 12 1 1/2 oz. Longshot Win. 209 Rem. RP12 25.6 10,400 PSI 1205
Lead Shot 12 1 1/2 oz. Longshot Win. 209 WAA12R 26.1 10,500 PSI 1205
Lead Shot 12 1 1/2 oz. Longshot Win. 209

blarby
June 24, 2012, 12:34 PM
Looks like the waa12r then.

243winxb
June 24, 2012, 12:41 PM
Check with oneounceload, hes big into shotguns . Or ask at www.shotgunworld.com

oldreloader
June 24, 2012, 01:31 PM
+ 1 for ask shotgun world.. A lot of great shotgun info over ther. Curlynohair DLMarcum and others are very knowledgable.

Uniquedot
June 24, 2012, 01:33 PM
Looks like the waa12r then.

The aa12r is about the best you can do with the sts for large payloads unless you wanted to use gas seals and wraps.

Uniquedot
June 24, 2012, 01:46 PM
+ 1 for ask shotgun world.. A lot of great shotgun info over ther. Curlynohair DLMarcum and others are very knowledgable.

I have ended up at that site in google searches and the guys over there are NOT very knowledgeable about shotshell reloading. If you are interested in a certain TARGET load or the specifics of a certain progressive press or what safe substitutions for target loads in the ranges they use are then they probably have answers for you, but i have done a lot of reading on that site and those guys just don't understand much about shotshell loading outside of the handful of target loads they keep their progressive presses set up to load.

I have read some pretty bad advice those "knowledgeable" long time posters have handed out and I've read some interesting arguments between them and shotshell reloader's whom actually knew what they were talking about, but were unable to make the "experts" on that site understand. I no longer read anything on that site and surely don't recommend those experts for advice on hunting loads. Not that there aren't some knowledgeable handloaders on the site, but the target experts will no doubt jump in and scramble the thread with nonsense.

blarby
June 24, 2012, 03:47 PM
he aa12r is about the best you can do with the sts for large payloads unless you wanted to use gas seals and wraps.

Thanks !

so the AA12R can accept the largest payload.

Looks like claybusters makes a very economical clone. Thanks !

rcmodel
June 24, 2012, 03:53 PM
This seems to me like you should be using the exact wad called for in the load data you are going to use.

Loading shotgun shells is not best done while flying by the seat of your pants and shopping around for components to find a wad that holds more!

Shotgun load data is very specific for each hull & shot charge weight.

Changing one component, even the wad, can change pressure a lot.

rc

blarby
June 24, 2012, 03:57 PM
Thanks RC.

I've managed to change it around quite a bit so far, I just need a little more room.

Following the payload rec's for this hull- just need to find the one with the largest capacity.

Almost to the payload I want, just need about another 1/4 of an inch. Thats why I prefaced the hull type I needed the wad for at the very beginning :)

Funny thing about them loads and pressure...they don't care about what makes up the weight- just what it weighs.

I'm stayin within the data, just using different sized shot.

I'f I went with a 1-3/8ths load wad, I'd still be under it...its just a size thing.

oneounceload
June 24, 2012, 05:37 PM
Just using the highest capacity without the right recipe is asking for the wrong combo to go BOOM

oneounceload
June 24, 2012, 05:44 PM
What are you trying to accomplish? Even taking a 1.5oz birdshot load and subbing buck shot is not the right way to go

blarby
June 24, 2012, 05:52 PM
Very simple, actually.

Just some duplex shot combos.

Just using the highest capacity without the right recipe is asking for the wrong combo to go BOOM

I agree.

I am however, using the same wads and powder as shown in my loading data, and the same weight or less of a payload- just putting different stuff in the cup.

Just using the highest capacity without the right recipe is....

....not what I was intending.

I think the thought of that occurring started somewhere around the time RC joined in.


As an example, lets look at this :

1 1/8 oz ( MAX 492 GR ) combos using RXP 12 wad and .171 bush of unique :

10x .311 balls = 450g

6x .311 balls and 1x .430 ball = 389g

3x .311 balls and 2x .430 balls = 373g

The RXP12 wad throws 1-1/8 oz of shot very well using this charge weight for me, in my shotgun.

I am well aware that Unique will not deliver maximum velocity, nor power, in buckshot.... That aside...


__________________



I'm trying to find a wad and charge combo that would accommodate :

6x .311 balls and 2x .430 ball = 508 g

Or perhaps

12x .311 balls = 540g

Or perhaps

Anything else under 548grs.

It would appear that the aa12r wad would allow a payload of 601grs, using a .155 bushing (24.3g) of SR7625.... or should I just stick with HS-6 ?

Ideally, I would like to be able to use Unique... but I don't think its going to work right past 1.125 oz of payload.

Perhaps I should have stated at the beginning that the powder and primer type were not important to me...as I would build the rest of the shell around the wad if I could find one that would fit the payload I had in mind- my mistake.

Uniquedot
June 24, 2012, 07:07 PM
What are you trying to accomplish? Even taking a 1.5oz birdshot load and subbing buck shot is not the right way to go

This is bad advice here. How do you think ballistic labs pick the starting point for the powder they intend to publish the data for? sure substituting buckshot for birdshot will lower the pressure a little, but no more than using exact pellet count data which is actually less precise than using weight substitutions because your x# of 00 pellets may weigh 1 3/8 ounces and my exact count may weigh 1.5 oz even with commercial shot. If you sub 1.5 oz. of buck for bird you are already working with a slower burning powder to boot.

The deciding factor of whether or not to sub buck for bird starts with the components and should be decided on based on hull capacity and wad type making sure of course that it will actually fit in the hull. All of BPI's data for buckshot is arrived at by starting with buck substitutions and 90% of all the new published data in reloading for shotgunners has been changed to weight vs count as it's more accurate for the reasons mentioned above.

Years ago the only buckshot data available was substitution loads, but when commercial buck became popular loads were listed by pellet count to simplify loading and it's taken into account that pellets will weigh differently depending on alloy. If you are serious about shotshells you should buy every new book and manual available on the subject and every piece of old material you can lay your hands on as well.

blarby
June 24, 2012, 07:13 PM
Hmmm..conflict.........

Uniquedot
June 24, 2012, 07:16 PM
I'm trying to find a wad and charge combo that would accommodate :

6x .311 balls and 2x .430 ball = 508 g

Or perhaps

12x .311 balls = 540g

Or perhaps

Anything else under 548grs.

Forget about the sts hulls and the aa12r and pick up a bag of Fed12s4 and a bag of Fed 12s3 wads and some Cheddite or Fiocchi hulls for your larger ball loads. While i prefer sts hulls for all my target and hunting loads up to 1 1/4 oz the best buck loads are had with straight walled hulls and wad combinations. I actually have a few loads that i use with unique in these combo's with .311 balls in Cheddite hulls. Just don't expect too many loads with these reifenhauser tubes. They are so inexpensive i usually only load them once as i keep a few thousand on hand. I have loaded some three and four times with life still left in them though.

blarby
June 24, 2012, 07:25 PM
I'd prefer not to forget about the mountain of STS and gun club hulls I have :D

These actually seem to fit/ work pretty well with the 100-1.125 ish loads... I just can't get the # of balls I want in each shot with the wads I'm using.

( RXP12- FIG8 )

I hear your advice though, loud and clear. Just can't afford to go buy another 1k plus hulls to get this idea off the ground.

If it works well enough, I may.... but I don't want to fall flat on my face and have a ton of stuff I'm not going to use for anything other than a failed idea >.<

Uniquedot
June 24, 2012, 07:54 PM
I'd prefer not to forget about the mountain of STS and gun club hulls I have

Do you happen to have any gold medals? they are excellent for buck and slugs as well. If you were interested in the hulls that have the largest capacity they are fed one piece plastic hunting cases. These look like a gold medal at first glance even looking into them you might confuse them if you weren't paying too close attention, but they have the highest internal capacity of any 2.75" hull available. Federals factory buckshot is loaded in them. These hulls have more internal capacity than some 3" hulls have! i have to use the 3" primer ring on a mec press to prime them. When i use a load all to load them i have to turn a spent primer upside down and drop into the primer station and leave there while loading them, but a load all II primes them with no troubles.

243winxb
June 24, 2012, 08:11 PM
www.hodgdon.com Shell: 2 3/4" REMINGTON STS, NITRO 27, OR GUN CLUB PLASTIC SHELLS

Load Type Gauge Shot Wt. Powder Primer Wad Powder Wt. (Gr.) Pressure Vel. (ft/s)

Lead Buckshot 12 9-#00 LEAD BUCKSHOT HS-6 CCI 209M WAA12F114 30.5 8,700 PSI 1300
Lead Buckshot 12 9-#00 LEAD BUCKSHOT HS-6 CCI 209M WAA12F114 32 9,500 PSI 1350
Lead Buckshot 12 27-#4 LEAD BUCKSHOT HS-6 CCI 209M WAA12R 30.5 9,700 PSI 1250
Lead Buckshot 12 27-#4 LEAD BUCKSHOT HS-6 CCI 209M WAA12R 31.5 10,400 PSI 1300

gamestalker
June 24, 2012, 09:24 PM
AA12R will take care of large loads no problem, as already stated. I do a good deal of pheasant hunting in the midwest and usually run a 1 1/2 - 1 5/8 oz. lead shot load on top of a healthy chrage of Longshot, amazing performance. My Son's and I have nick named those loads SOL's, translated, speed of light because of the velcoities we are achieving. However, in terms of wads I have used other generic wads that still provide the room necessary for shot and powder and didn't see any difference in shot groups.

Myself, I hate having to work with shot cards and other implements, so I would strongly recomend sticking to single wad colums to avoid making the process cumbersome and timely. What shotshell press are you using at this time? I just use a Mec 600 Jr. most of the time, but the Grabber and other Mec systems are all very good and have been very efficient for me to work with.

The only other word of advice at this time I would offer beyond wad choices is to be a bit cautious about getting to far off of the established components, and especially when you start getting into the larger weight loads. In this respect if you go above BB shot size, things can get pretty pressure sensitive and unpredictable. And of course, don't use steel shot with lead data, ever! Steel is of a completely different density and often runs a much higher pressure even within it's own data.

GS

blarby
June 24, 2012, 10:39 PM
Almost a prophecy, 'stalker....

Follow it here :

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=663589

FROGO207
June 24, 2012, 10:40 PM
With the .410 rounds I am reloading the BPI stump wads give me the most volume for the buckshot payloads. IIRC they are available for 12 GA also and they might work for your needs.

blarby
June 24, 2012, 11:32 PM
I guess all I would want the WAA12R wad for now would be a 12 ball .311, and a 3x1x3x1x3 combo if it patterns the same as the 3x1x3 did.

blarby
June 24, 2012, 11:48 PM
@ gamestalker : Good 'ole fashion Loadall. I don't load 5k a week, nor need to...it suits my needs, and comes with all the bushings I will ever need.


The only thing I've encountered with this current load is a little unburned Unique in the lighter buckshot loadings... I'm going to turn it down a tad on the next loadings, and see if that clears it up.

@ uniquedot : I pick 'em up when I can, but nowhere near as abundant as remington out here.

@Uniquedot : After todays outing, as we discussed, I'm gonna just keep doing my homework, and "pressin along" so to speak...they worked just fine... I have no doubt a larger wad designed to fit the hull will do just what I need it to. Thanks for the vote of reality and confidence.

If you enjoyed reading about "Largest capacity wad" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!