7mm Mag vs 300 Winchester Mag vs .338 Winchester Mag for long range shooting


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Ranger30-06
June 25, 2012, 01:15 PM
Hello guys. It's been a bit since I've posted, but I'm looking to build a bolt gun specifically for long distance shooting (200-600 yards.) I have 3 calibers I'm mainly interested in. The thing is, I don't really know what is best suited for me and what platform to build it on. Now the kicker is.I don't reload rifle caliber nor am I interested in doing it. I know 7mm and 300 Winchester mag are the cheaper options to shoot, however I do like the retained energy of .338 mag.


The second option is rifle selection. I am biased towards tactical type rifles, and I would like to get a good stock and muzzle break for the gun so aftermarket following is a bit important. Price is a bit of an issue, as I would like to keep it under $600 (already have glass though.)

I'm thinking either a savage variant or a Remington 700. Has anyone had any good experiences with Remington lately or are they still pushing out garbage?

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dprice3844444
June 25, 2012, 01:18 PM
http://www.tobystactical.com/
http://www.snipercountrypx.com/c-836-700ss-r5-mil-spec.aspx
http://gentrycustom.com/ muzzle brake

here ya go

HarcyPervin
June 25, 2012, 01:28 PM
2-600 yds seems like .308 territory to me since you don't reload. Depending on how often you shoot, you'll save a ton of money and there are a lot of options available.

Ranger30-06
June 25, 2012, 01:29 PM
Well it seems the military really likes the .300 WM... All those rifles are well out of my price range though.

If I'm going for a bolt gun, I'm going magnum. I have a .308, and honestly, I want something that shoots a bit flatter once it gets out there.

nathan
June 25, 2012, 01:50 PM
Just choose the .300 WM of 7 RM. It all boils down to how much it satisfies your soul. All are capable of hitting the target up to 600 yds. That range is way out there, entails a lot of practice equals to increase cost in ammo.

EchoM70
June 25, 2012, 02:00 PM
If your set on a magnum, how about 300 WSM? It's got all the power of of 300 Win Mag with slightly less recoil, and twice the barrel life of other magnums. The WSM's are starting to become very popular within the long range community, The new 1,000 yard benchrest record was set with a 300 WSM. I think it was a 2.67 inch group. Now keep in mind a stock on the shelf rifle won't do that, but the 300 WSM is more than capable.

My 300 WSM is the the most accurate rifle I own, It's a Tikka T3.

Also if your going to want any precision out of any caliber at long range you're going to have start reloading sooner or later. You need that ability to fine tune a load to your rifle, something you're not going to be able to do with factory offerings.

jmr40
June 25, 2012, 02:26 PM
The 300 WSM recently set a new 1,000 yard benchrest record. Ten shots into 2.8" @ 1,000 yards. If I already had a 300 Win mag I think it would be foolish to trade for a 300 WSM. But the WSM is just enough better that I think it would be foolish to pick one of the belted 300 mags over a WSM if deciding between the 2.

You get the advantages of a short action, a lighter gun that can get 98%-99% of the win mags velocity from shorter barrrels and with less recoil. Brass lasts longer and it is easier to reload for.

BTW 600 yards is not really long range. For hunting purposes a 30-06 is a solid 500 yard elk rifle and a 600 yard deer rifle. Take about 100 yards off that for a 308 and add about another 100 yards for a 300 mag. Any of them are 1,000 yard paper punchers.

The 7 mag is often overlooked. The 300's offer slightly better energy numbers out to 400 yards or so with almost identical trajectories. After about 400 yards the 7 mags with their more aerodynamic bullets actually shoot flatter and carry more energy than the 300's

The 338 is stuck in no mans land as far as I'm concerned. It does not really offer any real advantages in power over the 300 mags, nor does it shoot flatter. If I need more power than a 300 mag offers I'm going straight to the 375.

LeonCarr
June 25, 2012, 02:26 PM
I would go .308 or use one of the various 6.5s like the .260 Remington or 6.5-284. More accurate, easier to shoot due to less recoil, cheaper to shoot with a much longer accuracy/barrel life than the magnums.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

Ranger30-06
June 25, 2012, 02:42 PM
Ok, I'm liking the way the 7mm sounds here. It seems that .338 has ruled itself out, and .300 WSM is just straight out way too expensive to shoot even somewhat regularly. That leaves the .300 WM and 7mm Mag. The .260 is no doubt a good caliber, but you don't see many guns chambered for it and ammo isn't exactly on every gun store shelf.

Considering 7mm and .300 WM are chambered in literally every modern bolt gun, is there a specific brand I should really look at? I know Savage offers a "tactical" line with those calibers in it, but they're retail value is close to $1000. How about a plain Jane savage 111 with accutrigger and a synthetic stock? Then I could throw on a bipod and my Nikon I have laying around for under $600...

nathan
June 25, 2012, 03:45 PM
A tikka T 3 or a CZ 550 American Classic. Cost a little more but worth it.

Bobson
June 25, 2012, 04:03 PM
I wouldn't hesitate to buy a Savage if I was in the market for a rifle you're describing. From the high quality and excellent accuracy I've seen in Savage's "entry-level" rifles, I would expect phenomenal quality in their upper tier rifles.

I absolutely agree with the other posters who said a magnum chambering is unnecessary for shots out to 600 yards. IMO .308 and .270 are both readily available and capable cartridges for the range you've indicated.

Also, if you know you want to get into long range shooting, it may be worthwhile to get into reloading. Something to think about.

Dthunter
June 25, 2012, 04:20 PM
Ranger3006:

I hope you find your dream rifle! Shooting at longer ranges is an addictive sport!
With your budget at $600.00, It reeaally limits your choices! I shoot both the

7mag&300WM. Like them both. Both rifles are big heavy guns, so recoil is "nearly" insignificant.

If it was "me" choosing a caliber for shooting longrange under $600.00, I would go with something like a 7mm08,308win. To get good at long range you have to shoot allot! Cheaper ammo means more trigger time.
Then after you feel confident at those ranges, get a new setup, or upgrade the standard rig. That way its a neay seamless transition. If you cant afford to purchase over $600.00, do what I did years ago. Save for a longer time, and research more on calibers.
Go to the ranges and talk to the people who have the rifles
You like, and weed through the pros and cons of each.

Waiting can be painful! But spending all your hard earned money on a gun that doesnt fill/perform to your goals, is waaayyyy worse! Been there!! Lol!

I have stretched my 300WinMag out to 2000yards so far. Its freaking awsome! After 1800yds, it starts to get more difficult to adjust your scope mounting system to have enough adjustment!
Does the 7mm Mag perform as good?
Yep! But I have not pushed it past 1000yds yet. Maybe this summer.

Goodluck my fellow shooter, and may your choices be met with bullseyes at 600yards!

Steel Talon
June 25, 2012, 04:40 PM
.300 win mag is my choice. Plenty of go to 600yds and beyond plus you can reload it to fit the hunting application you want.

For a kill caliber to go beyond 600yards the 338 win mag action is the way to go.

Couple of thing to consider when kill shooting long distance (400 and beyond)

Top of the line optics. scope,bino's,spotting scope
Have all pieces properly fitted to the action that enable long distance shooting.
Master your resperation blood pressure,heart rate, breathing.
Learn to "drive" your rifle properly.
A solid reference of the rifles DOPE
Understanding how to plot parabalas (math)
A spotter or two to help find, dope, and recover animal. Terrain changes drastically when walking to the kill site.
Shoot from an elevated position.

jmr40
June 25, 2012, 08:07 PM
.300 WSM is just straight out way too expensive to shoot even somewhat regularly. That leaves the .300 WM and 7mm Mag.

If you are going to shoot anything, even as cheap as 308, enough to get really good you will quickly go broke if you don't reload. If you do reload there isn't that much difference in cost between any of them.

Based on your screen name I'd guess you already own a 30-06. I'd invest about 1/2 my budget into reloading equipment and use the rifle you have. Spend the other 1/2 on upgrades to your current rifle if needed. A 30-06 is one of those rounds where handloads can greatly improve performance over factory loads, and you can do it safely. Most factory loads are very conservative.

Seriously with a 200 yard zero and good loads a 30-06 has less than 8" more drop at 600 yards than a 300 win mag and only about 170 less ft lbs of energy. You can compensate for the drop, and no animal will notice the small difference in energy. To give the 300 any meaningful advantage will mean a custom rifle shooting custom handloads which are way over your budget anyway.

You will have less recoil, and less cost, which means more trigger time and better shooting on your part.

I'm not opposed to the magnum rounds, I own a 300 WSM. They have their place, but few shooters are good enough to take advantage of them.

chaser_2332
June 25, 2012, 08:31 PM
if your on a limited budget why build a rifle that more expensive to shoot at targets so close a .223 would be fine?

EchoM70
June 25, 2012, 08:55 PM
If you are going to shoot anything, even as cheap as 308, enough to get really good you will quickly go broke if you don't reload. If you do reload there isn't that much difference in cost between any of them.

Based on your screen name I'd guess you already own a 30-06. I'd invest about 1/2 my budget into reloading equipment and use the rifle you have. Spend the other 1/2 on upgrades to your current rifle if needed. A 30-06 is one of those rounds where handloads can greatly improve performance over factory loads, and you can do it safely. Most factory loads are very conservative.

Seriously with a 200 yard zero and good loads a 30-06 has less than 8" more drop at 600 yards than a 300 win mag and only about 170 less ft lbs of energy. You can compensate for the drop, and no animal will notice the small difference in energy. To give the 300 any meaningful advantage will mean a custom rifle shooting custom handloads which are way over your budget anyway.

You will have less recoil, and less cost, which means more trigger time and better shooting on your part.

I'm not opposed to the magnum rounds, I own a 300 WSM. They have their place, but few shooters are good enough to take advantage of them.

+1 This guy speaks the truth.

I've only been in the long range paper punching for a few months. (just got a good place to shoot and really stretch my legs out... usually I'm shooting between 600-800 yards but I'm getting ready to take it to 1000 soon.)

I don't know about you but between worrying about humidity, temperature, wind speed, wind direction, parallax, etc... I don't have time worrying about managing magnum recoil or the dust kicked up in my face by a muzzle brake when trying to make an accurate shot.

Besides if you don't reload the cost of factory ammo especially in any magnum will quickly stop you from practicing.

Personally I use a .270 win for my long range work. It's kinda unconventional due to the lack of match bullets in .277 but it's worked great for me so far. When I get to where I need more performance I'll switch to my 6.5 swede or maybe my 300 WSM.

Ranger30-06
June 25, 2012, 09:23 PM
Let me get this out of the way and say yes, I do already own a .30-06, however it's an heirloom 1903 that shoots great but I don't want to do anything to it. If I ever get around to hunting, it'll be my go to rifle.

That said, I want a long range rifle with power simply because I don't have one. I have a 20" AR for cheap shooting and I can hit out to 300 yards no problem with it. (Never got to try a further distance). I have a saiga .308 good to about 200 yards before the sights really do a number on you. My .30-06 can no doubt hit out to 500 yards, but the way my grandfather sporterized it it's set up for northeastern sub 200 yard hunting. That's it for rifles for me besides a .22.

Now I do have a reloading set up for doing pistol calibers. The problem is I'm working 60 hours a week, and would rather spend my time at the range then at the bench and I only manage to get to the range about once a month. By the way, decent .308 starts at ~$22 a box, but .300 WM and 7mm is about $25 a box so there isn't a huge difference...

Does anyone have a comparison of energy retained by .308 vs 7mm vs .300 WM so we can get a realistic idea of how much more energy is actually put out by each caliber?

chaser_2332
June 25, 2012, 09:49 PM
where have you found 300wm and 7 mag match ammo for $25 a box?

Ranger30-06
June 25, 2012, 10:05 PM
Its all over midwayUSA, just take a look.

Edit: its not match ammo, just normal hunting ammo. Match ammo is around $35-40 a box. I'm starting to lean towards a .308 bolt gun...

Kachok
June 25, 2012, 10:08 PM
Ok, I'm liking the way the 7mm sounds here. It seems that .338 has ruled itself out, and .300 WSM is just straight out way too expensive to shoot even somewhat regularly. That leaves the .300 WM and 7mm Mag.
??? 300 win and 300 WSM cost the same in my neck of the woods, the 300 WSM is a but cheaper to handload.
To anwser the OP 7mm rem, 300 win and 338 in that order, though the barrel burn works in that order too.

chaser_2332
June 25, 2012, 10:18 PM
your not goin to see any benifit from shooting cheap hunting rounds down a big boomer vs good match rounds in a 308. btw what's your scope you have now?

Ranger30-06
June 25, 2012, 10:30 PM
A Nikon 3-9x40 with ballistic drop reticle. (Can't remember exactly what line the scope is from, but I believe its a prostaff). A $300 scope that I stole from Wal-Mart on clearance for $150! :D

chaser_2332
June 25, 2012, 10:33 PM
ur better off to buy a better scope for the rifle u have and go from there

Ranger30-06
June 25, 2012, 10:39 PM
I have a 2-7 Nikon on my '06, and it's the best scope I have ever seen. A lot of people underestimate Nikon, but don't realize that they have been building lenses longer then most other companies building scopes have been around.

I'm fine with the scope I have, I just need a rifle for it!

jmr40
June 25, 2012, 10:43 PM
Does anyone have a comparison of energy retained by .308 vs 7mm vs .300 WM so we can get a realistic idea of how much more energy is actually put out by each caliber?


I use this website to calculate bullet drop with my chronographed loads and print out cheat sheets to help with holdover.

http://www.hornady.com/ballistics-resource/ballistics-calculator

These are actual numbers from my loads, in my rifles. The numbers could vary a bit with someone else's loads and in their rifles. I'll give the energy numbers and drop @ 500 yards with a 200 yard zero.

308/165 gr @ 2750 fps 1230 ft lbs 48" low
30-06/180 gr @2800 fps 1487 ft lbs 44.7" low
300 WSM/180 gr @2950 fps 1680 ft lbs 39.7" low
30-06/150 gr @3025 fps 1311 ft lbs 39.8" low
30-06/165 gr @2900 fps 1395 ft lbs 42.5" low
7mm rem mag/162 gr @3000 fps 1735 ft lbs 36.3" low
338-06/225 gr @2650 fps 1728 ft lbs 49.3 low
300 WSM/165 gr @ 3050 fps 1571 ft lbs 37.8" low.

MachIVshooter
June 25, 2012, 10:57 PM
A lot of people underestimate Nikon, but don't realize that they have been building lenses longer then most other companies building scopes have been around.

Nikon certainly makes good glass, but the Prostaff are their cheap line. Still decent, and I have one on my AR-10. But i use that rifle for pig hunting, not precision shooting. My .220 Swift is also topped with a Nikon, but it's no Prostaff model; It's a 6.5-20x 44mm UFCH Monarch, a $600 scope.

If you really want to shoot well at distance, you need to get over your $600 budget and distaste for handloading. With a $1,000 rifle budget and a $500 scope budget, you can start to be competetive at long range-but you really are going to have to handload.

chaser_2332
June 25, 2012, 11:08 PM
you should swap those numbers, i would much rather have the $1000 spent on a scope, plenty of $500 rifles shoot fine.

Ranger30-06
June 25, 2012, 11:15 PM
I just took a look at the box, it says monarch on it. I got a better steal than I thought! That scope has sat in the glass case at my Wal-Mart for ay least 4 years, and I just kept watching the price go lower and lower.

I'm thinking something like this here http://m.savagearms.com/#/firearms/model/10FPSR

Bobson
June 26, 2012, 12:07 AM
If you're absolutely set on buying a new rifle, I wouldn't look any further than a Savage 10 in .308. If you do though, this (http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/411540367/Savage+308+24+5R+THREAD+BL) is about as far as I'd look. Savage 10 with Accustock/Accutrigger, 24" bull barrel with 5R rifling and 1:11.25" twist.

Down the road you can swap out the stock with a custom by McMillan or B&C, replace the bolt and trigger group, etc, etc. As far as barrels, the 5R rifling with 1:11.25 twist is about as good as it gets for accuracy with a .308. That's what I've read over at SniperCentral, anyway.

If you want the original, look into the Remington 700 Milspec 5R (http://www.snipercentral.com/milspec5r.phtml).

Having said all that, I heartily agree that good glass atop an "entry level" rifle would be a better (or at least, sufficient) option for what you described in the OP.

tango2echo
June 26, 2012, 01:27 AM
If you're absolutely set on buying a new rifle, I wouldn't look any further than a Savage 10 in .308. If you do though, this is about as far as I'd look. Savage 10 with Accustock/Accutrigger, 24" bull barrel with 5R rifling and 1:11.25" twist.



With mid range glass and a good bipod this will exceed your skill level for the life of the barrel.

If your budget is truly $600 then I would suggest a high quality .22lr target rifle and optic and a brick of ammo. The money would be better spent in learning proper shooting form for long range shooting than on the rifle itself IMO.

I send several thousand rounds a year of .22lr downrange at 9mm cases @ 50y-100y in training for shooting .308/.300WM/.338L at distance. Quality Match .22lr ammo cost about a quarter a round or less. Just brass for the .338L is close to $4 a round.


T2E

eastbank
June 26, 2012, 07:58 AM
a 7mm mag shooting a good 160gr boat tail bullet at 3000fps will get you to 1000yds with no trouble. and in fact will out shoot the 300win mag shooting a 178gr bullet at 3000fps. with every thing being equal. eastbank.

mnhntr
June 26, 2012, 05:37 PM
First off 200-600yds is not long range. A .308 will do that with ease and be cheaper and easier on your shoulder than the Magnum calibers. You can save a lot of money looking at any of the .243 any of the 6.5mm or .308. If you already have an AR get a 6.5 grendel upper and be done with it.

rcmodel
June 26, 2012, 05:41 PM
I agree.
600 yards is not long distance.
Well, I guess it is.
The National Match course is fired with 5.56mm M16's now!

Before that it was 1,000 yards fired with 30-06, or .308.

Start out learning to shoot long range with a .308 or something you can afford to shoot.
It won't kick you silly, while burning a barrel out before you get good enough to know it or not.

rc

chaser_2332
June 26, 2012, 05:53 PM
a 7mm mag shooting a good 160gr boat tail bullet at 3000fps will get you to 1000yds with no trouble. and in fact will out shoot the 300win mag shooting a 178gr bullet at 3000fps. with every thing being equal. eastbank.
Why would u waste a 7mag on a 160gr when you can have berger 180's at 3100?

Ranger30-06
June 26, 2012, 09:24 PM
You guys are putting me to shame here! The longest designated area to shoot around here is 600 yards, so that's "long range." I'm actually liking the new AR upper idea, but will those intermediate calibers reach out with enough power to kill at those ranges, and will I be able to get a good upper for under $600?


Now I saw Olympic Arms's WSSM uppers, and that's something to consider there. How much do they usually go for though? MidwayUSA has them, but for almost $800 and that's getting into the too pricey zone.

rcmodel
June 26, 2012, 09:30 PM
with enough power to kill at those rangesKill what??

You never said anything about wanting to kill anything in your first posts question!

I thought you wanted to learn how to shoot paper or steel targets at 600 yards?

rc

Ranger30-06
June 26, 2012, 10:05 PM
Kill what??

You never said anything about wanting to kill anything in your first posts question!

I thought you wanted to learn how to shoot paper or steel targets at 600 yards?

rc
Well in short, it would be nice if the rifle could double as a medium range hog gun. I wanted a long range gun anyway, but there's a chance I may be able to get some hog hunting in down in texas. If I did this hunt, my rifles would be an '06 for under 200 yards and this setup for over 200 yards. (It would be on a farm with some VERY varied shot distances.)

This is why I mentioned the magnums and WSSM, but I didn't want 1000 people giving me hog hunting advice :uhoh:

mnhntr
June 26, 2012, 11:14 PM
The Grendel will kill hogs at that distance and you can put your own upper together for under $600.

rcmodel
June 26, 2012, 11:22 PM
but I didn't want 1000 people giving me hog hunting advice
Yes, but you could have avoided 38 of us people trying to help you if you had simply said what your intended use was going to be in the first place.

As for hogs?

A .308 will kill them deader then Jimmie Hoffa at any range, once you learn to hit them at long range.

Hitting them at long range with a .338 Lupata or .300 Magnum would be harder still, until you learn how to shoot a .223 or .308 rifle at long range.

If you already have a 30-06 and can't shoot hogs as far as you can see them?
It ain't gonna get no better with a belted Eargasplitten Lounder Boomer Magleum.

rc

Ranger30-06
June 26, 2012, 11:23 PM
I would love to know where you see a grendel upper for less than $1000. It seems like a niche area of the market there.

And sorry RC, I wasn't expecting tons of answers suggesting totally different options. I also can shoot out to 400 yards no problem, I just want to get a rifle better suited for long range shooting than trying to force my existing guns into roles they weren't intended for.

mnhntr
June 27, 2012, 01:56 AM
I said build an upper not find.

nastynatesfish
June 27, 2012, 02:06 AM
Inside of 800yds you can use a 308 to do your dirty work. A 7mag is balistically superior to the 300 when you look at coefficient and drop. If your target shooting you don't need to worry about retained energy.. Your kinda all over the pale with your post. I have a custom built Mauser in 308 and a custom 700 in 7mag. If your going to get serious about it you need better glass. Sure you can hit a 24" square plate at 600yds but where at each shot? Target shooting is about being able to see your point of aim not just your target and hold that same spot for your series of shots. I have a bushnell 4200 6-24-40 on my 308 and now want a 50 ml objective and a 30 mil tube for sight.

nastynatesfish
June 27, 2012, 02:10 AM
If your pushing a 180 bullet at 3100 your way over max to start. I run 162 amax at 3100. +\- and 168 bergers at 2975 about. And just cause you can push blazing speed with anything doesn't mean your gonna hit a target. Load accurate and work up to speed

Ranger30-06
June 27, 2012, 07:16 AM
I said build an upper not find.
Can you just put a 6.5 barrel on a .223 receiver and use .223 gas blocks/washers/etc. on the upper?

Lloyd Smale
June 27, 2012, 07:53 AM
I own them all and in my opinion a 300wm is tough to beat for an all around big game gun in the US.

chaser_2332
June 27, 2012, 02:24 PM
If your pushing a 180 bullet at 3100 your way over max to start. I run 162 amax at 3100. +\- and 168 bergers at 2975 about. And just cause you can push blazing speed with anything doesn't mean your gonna hit a target. Load accurate and work up to speed
Bn coated bullets and reloaded powder does wonders.

BoilerUP
June 27, 2012, 03:36 PM
There's absolutely zero need for a belted magnum for 600 yards...paper and steel don't care about retained energy.

A 9-twist 223 shooting 75/77gr bullets will make consistent hits at 600yd ALL DAY LONG, with a fraction of the recoil and per-round expense of a belted magnum.

Get a Remington SPS Tactical or Savage 10FP-SR in 223 along with a Bushnell 3200 Tactical 10x scope and a few boxes of Hornady Steel Match 75gr ammo and you'll be good to go.

If you absolutely must have something bigger than a 223, go with the same rifles above in 308, with the same scope, and shoot 175gr Federal Gold Metal Match.

Ridgerunner665
June 27, 2012, 10:02 PM
The 30-06 is just as well suited to shooting 400 yards (or even 600) as ANYTHING there is or ever has been...as is the 308 Win.

me thinks the OP just wants something new and shiny...lol...nothing wrong with that, but it is what it is.


EDITED TO ADD: That is to say...I agree with rcmodel.

Kachok
June 28, 2012, 01:16 AM
Just remember when hunting longer ranges that most rifle bullets are not designed to expand below 1800fps. That will really limit your effective range with a 308 especially if you are using flat base bullets. A 260 Rem, 6.5 Creedmore, or 6.5x55 can maintain 1800fps out past 700 yards with low drag bullets easy, plus their recoil is alot less.

xerxesthecat
June 28, 2012, 03:35 AM
at 600 yards, I agree with everyone saying 308 over 300 wm. I have tactical rifles in both, but the 308 is far easier to shoot accurately, especially in hot weather. If you wanted to go the extra mile for a custom rifle, 6.5-06 is real hard to beat.... versatile, accurate, modest recoil, excellent BC. I use 100 gr nosler BTs for paper or smaller game, 130 gr accubonds for the bigger stuff. otherwise, yes, everything the previous guy said. I'm also a big fan of the 6.5's in all guises.

Lloyd Smale
June 29, 2012, 08:04 AM
I have to wonder how many deer you experts that are bragging on the 308 for deer hunting out past 400 yards have actually shot with it. theres a big differnce in deer hunting at 300 yards and hunting at 400 and at 600 its a world of differnce. sure a guy that knows his gun can hit deer at 600 yards with a 308 but out there your talking the power level of about a 30 carbine. I shoot maybe 50-100 deer a year doing crop damage shooting and have done it with about every caliber and can tell you without reservation that a 308 is a lame killer at 600 yards. Sure it will kill if you bullet is precisely placed but theres not many snipers here for one and even with a good hit expansion is marginal and your going to eventually be tracking a wounded deer. A 300 or 7mag puts alot more smack on a deer at those ranges. Unless your a trained sniper (not a wanabe) id suggest if you plan to kill things out past 400 yards you leave your 308 at home. You owe it to the animal your shooting to put it down quickly and humanely. take it from someone whos actually done it the 308 is lacking at those ranges.

Kachok
June 29, 2012, 08:51 AM
^ +1 unless you are handloading very high BC hunting bullets the 308 starts to run out of steam around 400, but with heavy VLDs, NBTs, SSTs,or ABs in full power handloads you can strech that past 500yd

BoilerUP
June 29, 2012, 11:56 AM
Just for comparison's sake:

A 308 shooting a 208gr A-Max @ 2500fps, at 500' ASL elevation and standard atmosphere, carries 1800fps to beyond 550yd and has 1000ft/lb energy to beyond 850yd.

Its obviously important to place the bullet in the proper place, especially at longer ranges...but you don't need to be "snipery" to do that, you just need to understand the concept of reading wind, know the ballistics of your load, and the ability to shoot MOA at the distances you are choosing which comes only via practice.

Dthunter
June 29, 2012, 04:39 PM
It just boils down to use enough gun for the shot you plan on releasing.
Just because we can hit it effectively, doesnt mean we can kill it just as effectively.

Just my .02 cents worth.

AABEN
June 29, 2012, 07:25 PM
Hell they have 223 that are shooting 600 yard and doing it every day.

BoilerUP
June 29, 2012, 08:40 PM
Hell they have 223 that are shooting 600 yard and doing it every day.

Yup...and like I said upthread, paper and steel doesn't care very much about downrange energy.

MCgunner
June 29, 2012, 10:06 PM
7mm bullets have superior BCs and 7mm Rem Mag has about the recoil of a .30-06 which means more people will be able to shoot it better due to lesser flinch inducing recoil.

There are very good bullets for .300 and 7mm mags. Suit yourself, really. I'd not bother with the .338.

And, what ever happened to the 7mm STW? I mean, I'm a handloader, I know the ammo for that one is way scarce, never was THAT popular. Great performer for the handloader, though. Still, I need no more gun than 7mm Rem Mag. Actually, it's more than I need, usually use my .308, but I don't shoot 600 yards, either. My limit on game is 400.

Ranger30-06
June 29, 2012, 10:17 PM
I went to the gun store earlier, and I really wasn't pleased with what I saw. I'm quite sure I'll be looking at a varmint type AR upper to use for my long range needs. Thanks for the replies though guys!

Steel Talon
July 1, 2012, 06:00 PM
Heres my self built AR Varminter .223
Krieger Barrel, JP adjustable gas Block, Meuller Optic (Eradicator),Olympic Lower,Jard Trigger.

I have no problems hitting @ 600yards 69gr SMKHP fueld with W-748 , Win Primers.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh239/SteelTalon01/DSCN1232.jpg

5 @ 100

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh239/SteelTalon01/DSCN1235.jpg

JDMorris
July 1, 2012, 07:30 PM
There are no cheap ways to effectively get out to 600 yards with a precision accuracy..
I would get a Remington 700P in .300 WM, these have a heavy barrel which is something you'll want.
Get STEEL for your rings and base, and a good scope.
Then get some sandbags and you're set.

BoilerUP
July 1, 2012, 08:36 PM
There are no cheap ways to effectively get out to 600 yards with a precision accuracy..

Maybe not "cheap", but definitely less expensive.

There is absolutely zero need for a magnum chambering for targets (not hunting) at 600 yards...none. A 223 or 308 can achieve the exact same level of accuracy at that range as any 300WM, at a fraction of the per-shot cost.

Ya don't have to have a full-on 32" bull barreled benchrest rig or a GAP Crusader with a Schmidt & Bender to be accurate at 600yd...

sonick808
July 2, 2012, 03:19 AM
well, the fellows on the magpul long rage rifle video are shooting .308 and .300 winmag. the .308 is effective to a mile, the .300winmag 1.5 miles. You WILL get into reloading if you get serious about long range shooting. I personally would go with a .308, but in your choices, a .300 winmag.


Definitely time for a Surgeon rifle fitted with Schmidt + Bender optics :D

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