leading


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area51
June 26, 2012, 05:50 PM
Just loaded some 38spcl using 3.8gr hp38 and some .357 action lswc from MB. I got leading around the cylider and the forcing cone on my 2" s&w snub nose.. What would be the cause ? I also shot the same lswc with my Blackhawk using 11.5 gr of #9 and the same 38spcl loads as used on the Smith with no leading whats so ever.

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bds
June 26, 2012, 06:39 PM
This link should answer most of your leading questions - http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Chapter_7_Leading.htm

"Forcing cone.

Leading found in the forcing cone proper can be the result of the cast bullet being significantly over-sized relative to groove diameter and being swaged down as it enters the forcing cone. It can also be due to the forcing cone being poorly or roughly cut, or cut off-center (it does happen...). Or it can be due to poor cylinder timing leaving the chamber(s) in poor alignment with the barrel at ignition. This last case will generally have an asymmetric build up on one side or the other, and the revolver will commonly "spit lead".



Immediately in front of the forcing cone.

If the leading is observed immediately in front of the forcing cone, then it's almost always due to a constriction in the barrel caused by an overly tight barrel/frame thread. This is most readily diagnosed by slugging the bore, and feeling for added resistance as the slug passes through this portion of the bore. Fire-lapping will usually clean this up pretty quickly and effectively. Hand-lapping requires more knowledge and experience, but allows the shooter to feel when the job is done and results in a more uniform bore surface throughout the length of the barrel."

Steve C
June 26, 2012, 11:03 PM
Are you using commercial cast bullets? Generally these bullets are hard alloy and do not seal well in the bore when loading at .38 spl pressures that will not bump up the base to seal in the barrel so the flame from the burning powder will melt lead not only from the base but off the side of the bullets on to the barrel.

The same bullet shot in the .357 mag with its higher pressure will generally leave little to no lead residue in the barrel as the pressure will bump up the base to seal in the barrel and prevent gas blowing by.

Lead bullets that are too hard for the pressure used will generally deposit lead in the first part of the barrel while a bullet pushed too fast for its hardness will lead at the muzzle end. With a snub nose and its short barrel you may have leading the full length of the barrel when using hard bullets.

To reduce leading in the .38 spl buy softer 12 BNH bullets like the ones offered by Missouri Bullet company or swaged lead bullets from Speer, Remington, Hornady or other commercial suppliers.

The rings on the cylinder face is typical for all lead bullets and jacketed with bare base. The hot gasses from the burning powder vaporizes a bit of the base lead and it deposits on the face of the cylinder and forcing cone.

ljnowell
June 26, 2012, 11:57 PM
Thats a hard bullet. I load it in 38special, but when I do I load it near max. I use AA#2 and find it still leads a little bit. I have some power pistol loads that are much better. Ideally it should be done with a softer bullet.

area51
June 27, 2012, 01:19 AM
To reduce leading in the .38 spl buy softer 12 BNH bullets like the ones offered by Missouri Bullet company or swaged lead bullets from Speer, Remington, Hornady or other commercial suppliers.


Think I"ll be using Molly coated bullets from either Bear Creek or Bayou. They run about $20 more per thousand. Cleaning up all that crap took me a good 2 hours.. What a pain :eek:

Steve C
June 27, 2012, 03:03 AM
hink I"ll be using Molly coated bullets from either Bear Creek or Bayou. They run about $20 more per thousand. Cleaning up all that crap took me a good 2 hours..

Hope you have better luck with Molly coated bullets than I did. Tried some 158gr LSWC's years ago and they leaded just as bad as any other hard cast in the .38 spl. They where nice and clean to handle and looked nice.

evan price
June 27, 2012, 05:10 AM
Light load. Hard bullet. Happens.
Two hours to clean it- Did you doze off in the middle?:)

ArchAngelCD
June 28, 2012, 01:44 AM
Looking at the picture you provided, if you are calling the circle arounf the front of the cylinder charge holes lead, it's not, it's Carbon deposits. Just think about it, how can you get lead deposits on the face of the cylinder where the bullet never touches? That is Carbon left by the powder not lead.

That can be removed using a stiff brush and any good solvent. You can easily remove it using a Lead-Away cloth too. Just don't use that cloth on a Blue finish revolver, it will remove the Bluing.

area51
June 28, 2012, 01:57 AM
Looking at the picture you provided, if you are calling the circle arounf the front of the cylinder charge holes lead, it's not, it's Carbon deposits. Just think about it, how can you get lead deposits on the face of the cylinder where the bullet never touches? That is Carbon left by the powder not lead.

That can be removed using a stiff brush and any good solvent. You can easily remove it using a Lead-Away cloth too. Just don't use that cloth on a Blue finish revolver, it will remove the Bluing.

I think it was lead. After a couple of rounds, the cylinder would not turn, got stuck. I was able to free it after about 1 minute using a little force turning the cylinder and cocking the hammer at the same time. It almost seemed the cylinder was "fused" to the forcing cone.

Maybe the crimp had something to do with it ? Too agressive of a crimp ?

On second thought I will not give up on the lead yet. I think it's a process of learning which I am willing to do...

41 Mag
June 28, 2012, 06:46 AM
Chore Boy Copper scrub pads will be your best friend when getting the stubborn lead out. If you can find them, simply pull out one strand and wrap it around your bronze brush. It will quickly cut right through the leading and not mess with your bore or cylinder.

Another thing I have used is a patched soaked with Kroil, wrapped tightly around a bronze brush. When you wrap it, take a little time to force some of the bristles through the patch, this way your getting the patch holding the Kroil working as well as the bristle tips working through the patch on the lead.

On my SS revolvers, I have also taken the Birchwood Casey Lead Cloth and cut small patches from it, and shoved them through the bore and cylinders on and old brush or a brass jag a caliber or two smaller. This does a pretty quick job as well, however you shouldn't use it on blued guns as per the package.

sean1129
June 28, 2012, 08:09 AM
I've put literally thousands of the 357 action down my 686 that I've loaded for both 38 special (3.3 of 231) and 357 magnum (12.9 of 2400) withou any leading in the barrel whatsoever. Now, what you show on the front of the cylinder I've had whether shooting factory ammo or handloads. I do have a reommendation, as my cylinder gets cleaned back to the original condition each time it goes to the range: use Balistol to spray around the areas mentioned and let it soak. Then, use a lead removing cloth (I use a ProShot cloth, Birchwood Casey makes one) and start scrubbing on the areas affected. It will take SOME elbow grease and persistance, but no 2 hours worth. Like I said, I have my gun in like-new condition inside and out after a range trip, and the whole ordeal takes me 15-25 minutes, tops.

Hope this helps.

GP100man
June 28, 2012, 09:11 PM
+1 on the choreboy scrubbers !!!!

Here`s what ya see on the face , it`s a mix of lead/carbon & on low pressure loads it adheres to the forcing cone/cyl face & can build .

On higher pressure loads it happens just the same or even more but is blown off by the higher pressures.

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