[68wj]

According to Google, the tools of our hobbies here are considered prohibited to their new policies.
The following products are not allowed on Google Shopping:

Guns, ammunition and knives


http://support.google.com/merchants/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=2632553

As such, the online merchants that you support, and that provide economic legitimacy to the firearms industry, will not have a web presence. As Google is a business they have the right to do this, and also have the ability to see their error and change this course.

Google needs to hear a very strong opposition to their decision by:

Hearing from everyone: http://support.google.com/merchants/bin/request.py?contact_type=survey and https://www.google.com/quality_form?q=shopping&hl=en&biw=1366&bih=598&tbm=shop&prmd=imvnszrl

Discontinuing use of Google services if they continue to view us as a problem

We are a small group here, and it is imperative that if you agree that this is a problem YOU must also spread this information to others (social media, other forums, friends). Bump with additional links or feedback.

[hso]

Checking a moment ago for the 22/45 using the Shopping pulldown showed a number of pistols from Buds and Grab-A-Gun.

Are we certain that this means that Google Shopping will no longer show available firearms or that this is something else? It doesn't make any sense that knives in general would be prohibited in Google's Shopping function so it raises questions.

[somoss]

I thought HSO might be overstating the issue but no such luck. According to Google shopping starting 07/01/12 :

What's the policy?

"Google AdWords doesn't allow the promotion of weapons or devices designed to cause serious harm or injury. The promotion of weapons includes guns, gun parts or hardware, ammunition, bombs, knives, throwing stars, and brass knuckles.

We've created this policy to comply with legal regulations."

:what:

it is more restrictive than you can even imagine:


http://support.google.com/adwordspolicy/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=176077&topic=1310883&path=1308252-2585946&ctx=leftnav

[Ryanxia]

That would be retarded. Although Google shopping isn't something worth using pretty shortly anyway, they are changing the results from relevance to paid advertisers (ie. you search for guns and the companies that pay the most to Google will show up first). I don't remember the source I read it but I think it was on consumerist.com.

[snakeman]

Another big player hitting us hard with anti-gun funding.

[68wj]

Checking a moment ago for the 22/45 using the Shopping pulldown showed a number of pistols from Buds and Grab-A-Gun.

Are we certain that this means that Google Shopping will no longer show available firearms or that this is something else? It doesn't make any sense that knives in general would be prohibited in Google's Shopping function so it raises questions.
I don't know how it is being rolled out, but when I use my home PC, I get zero shopping results with broad terms like Armalite or Ruger. Even ammo with 6.8 SPC or 5.56 returns nothing. Magpul gave me a few hits.

From my work computer, which is connected through an IP in another state, I still seem to be functional. Google's effective date is 7/1/12.

I learned of the policy from an online store (Hamlund Tactical) who received an e-mail from Google that their items would not be included in future searches. Here is an excerpt from the email
We do not allow the promotion or sale of weapons and any related products such as ammunitions or accessory kits on Google Shopping. In order to comply with our new policies, please remove any weapon-related products from your data feed and then re-submit your feed in the Merchant Center.

[murphys_law]

I will be voicing my opinion against this. Hopefully they will change their mind.

[JustSomeDude]

Thanks for the heads up, I filled out the surveys FWIW (probably not worth a plugged nickel, but you do what you can).

[T Slothrop]

The Google Ad words program is NOT the same thing as Google Shopping. I'm not stating flat out that you guys are wrong, but I do strongly suspect that something is getting "lost in translation" here.

[68wj]

The Google Ad words program is NOT the same thing as Google Shopping. I'm not stating flat out that you guys are wrong, but I do strongly suspect that something is getting "lost in translation" here.
The link in the OP and later quote of an email from Google to an online shooting retailer pertain to Google Shopping specifically. AdWords' policy is almost a mirror too.

Google is too large and involved for this to not be noticed by anti-RTKBA organizations. It is a dangerous precedent.

[Midwest]

Are we going to have a national boycott of Google?

What are the major pro gun sites and organizations saying about this?

Has the media picked up on this?

[RX-178]

We can still find guns NOW because it doesn't take effect until the first of July.

It does clearly state



The following products are not allowed on Google Shopping:

Guns, ammunition, and knives

[Cluster Bomb]

Boycotting Google and its other affiliates.

somone should write up a document to show how strong our voice is that translates to income for them, and if they block our way of life they will not receive such income.

I wounder how this will effect "googlies" search for gun shops, ffls, NRA instructors, reviews, forums, etc. will it transfer over to their search engine? or is it just addsand shopping part?

[Ben86]

I started trying to boycott them as best I can last year (difficult to do with everything they have their hand in) because of how they are trying to monopolize the internet, spy on us during our daily lives, and where their campaign controbutions end up. Add this to the list of reasons.

I do find it odd that a large corporation would adopt such anti-gun polies when politically the tide has drastically turned to the pro 2nd Amendment side. It's just going to amount to bad PR.

[dc.fireman]

While Google SHopping is not the same thing as Google AdWords, anyone selling on Google Shopping, must conform to the same policies set forth by Google AdWords.

[Mauser lover]

Time for everyone to switch to "Bing", but I don't know how their policy is on guns and such either....

How is "Firefox"?

[RX-178]

In complete honesty, and this is just my opinion, myself alone... I'm not going to be affected by this.

Google shopping results have NEVER shown me the best prices on knives or ammo (in fact, Amazon.com has always been much better on knives), and actually using Google's normal search engine has given me better prices and better deals, so that's probably what I'm going to keep doing. Google shopping was also broken in that it would show listings from gunbroker that had long since expired.

I just don't feel like they're taking away anything useful to me.

[aeriedad]

I don't mean to in any way discourage members' activism here, but it should be pointed out that Google Shopping is disallowing listings for many categories besides guns, ammunition and knives:

Services

Services are not allowed on Google Shopping.
Examples of listings disallowed:

Event tickets
Subscriptions, such as magazine subscriptions or any kind of service subscription.
Online courses

Other prohibited categories

The following products are not allowed on Google Shopping:

Vehicles
Guns, ammunition and knives
Tobacco and cigarettes
Traffic devices (Learn more)
Products related to casino and gambling
Products or digital goods that require additional software installation in order to be purchased.
Products bundled with service plans. (Note: The only products that are allowed to be submitted with a service plan are mobile devices.)


There are a lot of things to not like about Google. While they probably are anti-2A, it's not clear that anti-2A views are to blame for Google Shopping policies, any more than anti-1A views. Is Google anti-1A because they don't allow event tickets (freedom of association) or magazine subscriptions (freedom of speech) to be listed on Google Shopping?

Is there more evidence to support an assertion of anti-2A bias on the part of Google? I would get behind a campaign to call for a change to their policies, but doing so without better evidence can undermine our credibility.*

* Mods, if this is out of bounds for Activism, I understand and apologize...just looking for clarification before taking action.

[BluEyes]

How is "Firefox"?

Firefox is a web browser, not a search engine. However, as a web browser, it is generally more secure and more stable than Internet Explorer.

I searched for best search engines and came up with a number of alternatives to Google. Will be trying them out. Also removed all the Google apps from my phone.

Sent Google feedback a short letter telling them why they won't be getting my clicks anymore. Remember, companies like Google make their money of ads. The value they charge for those ads is influenced by how many clicks their website gets. So, keeping using other Google items will keep money flowing to them. The more Google services you can drop for another provider, the more they will notice!

Someone asked about the media. At least some firearms blogs have taken up the story: http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/06/foghorn/google-censor-firearms-related-shopping-results/

[aeriedad]

Yeah, maybe there is something to this.

Yesterday a search for "Kimber" on www.google.com/shopping produced a bunch of hits. Not today.

Just tried searching "subscription" on www.google.com/shopping, plenty of hits on all kinds of magazines, newspapers, etc. Searching "Ford" gets a link to the main Ford website and lots of stuff for car parts, but no ads selling actual cars or trucks. "Concert tickets," lots still listed. Not sure where this is going really, but I think it stinks. I'm going to look at it again next week after the full policy is supposed to be effective.

If it's as bad as it seems on its face, of course we should flood them with feedback. But I think they will notice the effect of their actions more if they lose real business. Use a different search engine, especially when doing any kind of online shopping. If you do use google for something, NEVER click on an ad. Type the URL for the merchant directly into the address bar. And not just for gun stuff, but for ALL stuff.

[Friendly, Don't Fire!]

I posted this in the other thread that was closed:
Google was my home page for years until about a month or two ago when they made a stand for something going on in California that I thought they had no reason getting involved in.

It was then that I changed my search engine to Bing.

I'm sure when they see their numbers going down, and a direct correlation in time between when they did 'thus-&-so' and suddenly the hits to their site drop, they will hopefully get the message!

It is not 'rocket-science' to realize that when they make a change and then immediately see the hits drop to their site activity, maybe they should have left well-enough alone.

[hso]

You have to tell a business why you're not putting money in their pocket anymore if you want to affect a change in their policies.

Tell them that you might find that you like the competitor's product better once you get used to it and that it might not be worth the trouble to change back.

Tell them that you're going to encourage others to do the same.

[King_John_I]

You can still search on Bing for firearms.

Dang, Google upsets me, and I really liked them for many years.
Like anything else that gets to big, it starts to eat our souls.

We probably represent like 1% of traffic for domestic firearm sales at best. They dont care about 1% financially when they are increasing profits x amount on the other 99%!

It all comes down the the $$$$$$:banghead:

[Spats McGee]

I could still search firearms in Google until about 30 minutes ago.

I sent this to Google:

Dear Sir or Madam:

I recently saw an internet posting which indicated that Google will no longer allow advertising for firearms. In researching the issue, I found the following language in your policies:

"The following products are not allowed on Google Shopping:

•Vehicles
•Guns, ammunition and knives
•Tobacco and cigarettes"

As an avid hunter and shooter, I have often used Google Shopping to research various firearms and ammunition. As of approximately thirty minutes ago, I find that I can no longer do so.

I find it unsettling, to say the least, that I can find books on how to grow marijuana, an illegal activity, on Google, but am unable to find any information on shopping for a firearm or ammunition, a legal activity.

Unless and until Google changes this policy, I will run each and every internet search that I do through some other search engine.

[aeriedad]

I sent this to Google:

Now that's the way to do it! We need a few million more of these right away!

[Spats McGee]

aeriedad, that's why I posted it. Everyone that wants to copy it for their own response is welcome to do so!

ETA: And yes, I have already changed over my default search engine. It appears that you can still shop firearms on "Bing." I guess now I'll be telling people to "bing this," rather than "google that."

[B!ngo]

What's the policy?

"Google AdWords doesn't allow the promotion of weapons or devices designed to cause serious harm or injury. The promotion of weapons includes guns, gun parts or hardware, ammunition, bombs, knives, throwing stars, and brass knuckles.

We've created this policy to comply with legal regulations."



http://support.google.com/adwordspolicy/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=176077&topic=1310883&path=1308252-2585946&ctx=leftnav[/QUOTE]

What are the legal regulations that they cite?
B

[Hunter125]

It doesn't make any sense that knives in general would be prohibited in Google's Shopping function so it raises questions.
Since when have the antis made any sense?

[Gtscotty]

Wow, I'm glad this topic is already being discussed, I actually just came over to THR to post on this if no one had already done so.

A few minutes ago I was trying to Search for "Ruger Gunsite Scout", when that turned up nothing I was kind of confused, and a little suspicious.... so I googled "Glock". When that turned up nothing I started searching around an found out about their new policies.

I for one am very disappointed, Google has done a lot for the furtherance of the freedom of speech and information.... I really didn't see this coming.

In light of the recent headlines proclaiming "Google sees alarming level of government censorship requests", one might begin to wonder if some kind of backdoor government censorship drive is at the root of this corporate move.

Either way, I used to use Google shopping all of the time to find deals on firearms and accessories online.... I guess I'll be trying Bing.

What do all of you use for firearms related internet shopping searches? Are there some diamonds in the rough out there?

[Lincoln4]

I just Googled "Glock for sale" and got over 6 million hits... What are you guys talking about?

[Gtscotty]

Go to the "Google Shopping" tab and try to search any type of gun. This search used to return lots of sellers for each specific model with associated pricing, now you will get something like:

Your search - glock 19 - did not match any shopping results.

Suggestions:

Make sure all words are spelled correctly.
Try different keywords.
Try more general keywords.
Try fewer keywords.

[conw]

Faganfinder.com is a great alternative to Google.

[dprice3844444]

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/06/foghorn/google-censor-firearms-related-shopping-results/

[Big Boy]

This is insanity

[powell&hyde]

On google shopping bullets don't even show up, I typed in "Nosler Partition" and got an error like GTscotty did. But when I type in "Imr 3031" it shows a bunch of results like normal.

[230RN]

I switched to dogpile dot com about 18 months ago just cuz I had the feeling that Google was getting too big for its britches in terms of intrusiveness.

I guess now it's just plain too big for its britches on all accounts.

[jdmb03]

I just Googled "Glock for sale" and got over 6 million hits... What are you guys talking about?

You have to go under the shopping tag. See below.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&tbm=shop&q=Glock&oq=Glock&gs_l=products-cc.3..0l10.2258.3362.0.4187.5.4.0.1.1.0.262.693.1j1j2.4.0...0.0.nY286Mzq34A

[hso]

So far Google Shopping has displayed handguns, rifles, magazines and knives to me this morning that are not allowed to be sold in all 50 states.

I don't know that we understand all the facts here, but sending requests for clarification are vitally important.

[jdmb03]

Are you sure you're under the shopping tab?

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&tbm=shop&q=Glock&oq=Glock&gs_l=products-cc.3..0l10.2258.3362.0.4187.5.4.0.1.1.0.262.693.1j1j2.4.0...0.0.nY286Mzq34A#hl=en&gs_nf=1&ds=sh&pq=smith%20and%20wesson%20bodyguard&cp=15&gs_id=8r&xhr=t&q=Glock%20magazines&pf=p&tbm=shop&sclient=psy-ab&oq=Glock+magazines&gs_l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=ccc79e8558b9b888&biw=1093&bih=538

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&tbm=shop&q=Glock&oq=Glock&gs_l=products-cc.3..0l10.2258.3362.0.4187.5.4.0.1.1.0.262.693.1j1j2.4.0...0.0.nY286Mzq34A#hl=en&gs_nf=1&ds=sh&pq=glock%2023&cp=18&gs_id=cl&xhr=t&q=sig+sauer+magazines&pf=p&tbm=shop&sclient=psy-ab&oq=sig+saur+magazines&gs_l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=ccc79e8558b9b888&biw=1093&bih=538

[MrDig]

This policy affects their shopping and advertising. You can still find articles written and occasionally links to sales sites by doing a web search. If you click on the "shopping" tab on the left of the screen you will no longer get results.
What this has done is effectively stopped smaller online retailers from getting hits on Google. The bigger players like Buds Guns and Cheaper than Dirt still get hits on the web search. Smaller competitors like Kentucky Gun and Tombstone Tactical no longer get hits.
Oddly the respectable places like Cabelas, Gander Mountain and Bass Pro Shops don't get hits from a web search.
Ironic isn't it? I can't shop for a gun on line with Goggle but if I web search for a Gun I can get hits to online retailers.

[Big Boy]

For anyone wondering it is indeed real. It becomes "effective" on July 1st so it's possible that they have not gotten everything blocked in your particular area yet. It's definitely blocked here.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a58/CB-AARON/Untitled.jpg

[RCArms.com]

There is an informaton tab that explains that Google Shopping is becomming a Commercial site.

This means that they can permit or restrict anything they want on it similar to eBay's rather restrictive stance that they held until they realized the amount of revenue that they were missing and then they relaxed their policy slightly.

While the main Google site returns all the hits you can imagine on just about anything, Google shopping does not. I would imagine that Google Shopping generates revenue from merchants that sell their products via this portal. If Google chooses to exclude firearms related merchants and products, that's their choice.

I would choose to avoid sellers that use the Google Shopping as an outlet and inform them that I will not be purchasing their goods or serivces because of their use of Google, explainign why the Google Shopping restrictions are unacceptable to me. You also have to be willing to NOT spend your money with that merchant, otherwise it's not effective.

You have to remember that Google and the merchants using Google are after the dollar bills in YOUR wallet and that YOU hold all the cards in the game. If you advise them that you will be spending your dollars elsewhere and WHY, you may make a difference. Multiply that by a few hundred thousand or million people, you have the beginning of a force that can bring about change.

So rather than punish Google for being foolish, advise the people that PAY Google to use their service that you will not be making your purchase from them because they use Google. If you're that business and you get enough messages from people that are not buying from you because of Google, your going to pay attention and maybe make changes.

Don

[TNBilly]

If you want a search engine that respects your privacy try Startpage..... been using them well over a year now and for the most part well pleased with them.

[RCArms.com]

If you want a search engine that respects your privacy try Startpage..... been using them well over a year now and for the most part well pleased with them.
It's not the Google Search Engine that is the problem, it's their Google Shopping platform that is becomming a commercial site and introducing the anti-2A restrictions.

[k-frame]

If you communicate with Google to voice your displeasure you should advise that you will also no longer buy any Android device, including your smart phone, and that you will no longer watch YouTube.

[ErikO]

I never visited Google Shooping before yesterday. I wasn't impressed and won't be going back. They can make any changes they want.

Having a business rely on a single Internet technology for any part of the core of their business is short sighted. I agree that Google is being dumb, but so are retailers that rely on Google for their customers to find their gun-related items. This will have zero impact on teh Google search engine, why would they want to limit the data they can reach?

[henschman]

The beautiful thing about markets is that they require no activism to punish companies that make bad decisions... the market quickly provides alternatives and business just moves elsewhere. Google is not the only company capable of running a search engine that compiles prices from online retailers. Thankfully, bing already has a similar service that is just about as good, so we don't even have to wait for someone in the market to fill the void!

The best form of "activism" we can engage in is simply to direct previous users of google shopping who are impacted by this to bing shopping.

[hso]

Yep, I specifically went through Google Shopping.

No, you have to tell them what the specific problem is and what the specific behavior you want them to have if you want any "punishment" to result in a positive response.

[Eb1]

Also remember that Google is responsible for your Android phone software. So if you're going to boycott, be sure to boycott all that is Google. Phone, E-Mail, Search, etc, etc...

[hso]

I ran the same Google Shopping search today as I had a few days ago and I see nothing that indicates that this change has any negative impact on my ability to find firearms.

We probably should cool the rhetoric down a bit and try to avoid getting egg on our faces until we actually see some Anti behavior out of Google since we're not seeing any now that the policy changes are supposed to have gone into effect.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=167321&d=1341155322

[powell&hyde]

Here is an article about a lawyer who had ran a "Google Adwords" advertising campaign only to have it pulled by Google a few days later and this was back in 2008!! http://www.learnaboutguns.com/2008/08/12/googles-anti-gun-rights-bias-a-sad-form-of-censorship/

[Panzercat]

I'm torn because until they outright censor their actual search results; they're like craigslist or ebay in policy and you're still going to use those, if not for gun purchases.

In any case, there's a lot of websites that use services that feed into google products. Customized Google search bar (a lot of sites right there). Ad words. Some of you use google gmail, which happily spams you with ads. google+ ? Just using their search engine generates revenue. Do you use chrome? How about an Android phone? If they are going to be gun unfriendly to you, you should consider what is revenue unfriendly to them.

EMail alternatives
Zoho (http://www.zoho.com/) (with a number of competative cloud storage/workplace options)
Hotmail
Yahoo

Search Engine alternatives
QuackQuackGo (https://duckduckgo.com/about.html) (no ad/cookie tracking, does not poll from google in results)
Bing
Yahoo

Browser alternatives
Firefox (https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/new/) (change your search bar options from google!)
Internet Explorer
Opera (http://www.opera.com/)

BTW; here's their policy page (http://support.google.com/merchants/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=188484#US) with the content in question. Click on "Unacceptable product categories". And frankly, I don't buy their 'higher purpose' BS for a moment. I remember when they created the 'don't be evil ' tagline... And laughed.

[hso]

Until we actually see some impact that limits Google Shopping we're barking at the dark.

Right now the Kimber Ten which can't be offered for sale in California comes up easily on Google Shopping. I don't think this issue with Google Shopping means what we think it means.

[Whatsit]

Need an alternative? Try www.ixquick.com

[Tinker]

Read this thread (being previously unaware of this subject), went to Google Shopping, typed in "Glock 19", "Ruger 10/22" and "Uzi". Got no results.

Typed in "Dillon 550b" and did get results.

There must be something to this. At least when directly aimed at firearms and not neccessarily at gun related items.

[hso]

Tinker,

I don't know how you got nothing because I just checked and got 32,000 results for Glock 19 and pages of purchase opportunities from $619 on down.

***

One thing confusing to me is the repeated reports from some members that a Google Shopping search reveals no results, but every time I double check I get the opposite results. Dozens, hundreds or, as in this case, thousands of results pop up immediately.

I use the Barrett REC7 as my test subject because there won't be any airsoft counted in the results and I know that it isn't available in all 50 states. It keeps coming up day after day in spite of the complaints that no results are showing up for some folks.

[RX-178]

Was not getting results day before yesterday (day before the policy was supposed to take effect).

Am getting results again NOW (day AFTER policy was supposed to take effect).

Am very confused now, even though Google's written policy seems quite clear cut and leaves little to speculation...

[68wj]

Tinker,

I don't know how you got nothing because I just checked and got 32,000 results for Glock 19 and pages of purchase opportunities from $619 on down.

***

One thing confusing to me is the repeated reports from some members that a Google Shopping search reveals no results, but every time I double check I get the opposite results. Dozens, hundreds or, as in this case, thousands of results pop up immediately.

I use the Barrett REC7 as my test subject because there won't be any airsoft counted in the results and I know that it isn't available in all 50 states. It keeps coming up day after day in spite of the complaints that no results are showing up for some folks.
I think it depends on which server you are going through as it seems to vary geographically.

Your search - barrett rec7 - did not match any shopping results.
Your search - glock 19 - did not match any shopping results.
Your search - 9mm - did not match any shopping results.
Butterfly - 2,690,000 results (just to see that it works at all)

A search for 5.56 that didn't get me anything before has 1 result now for Cheaper Than Dirt.:eek:

[Old Fuff]

Remember we are in a holiday week. Wait until after July 5th. and see if the situation changes.

[Striker]

Here is the letter that Google sent out. It only affects Google Shopping results, not the generic search engine function.

Dear Merchant,

We’re writing to let you know about some upcoming changes to the product listings you submit to Google. As we recently announced, we are starting to transition our shopping experience to a commercial model that builds on Product Listing Ads. This new shopping experience is called Google Shopping. As part of this transition, we’ll begin to enforce a set of new policies for Google Shopping in the coming weeks. A new list of the allowed, restricted, and prohibited products on Google Shopping is available on our new policy page – http://www.google.com/appserve/mkt/ApI7UWRj6OCZpd.

Based on a review of the products you’re currently submitting, it appears that some of the content in your Merchant Center account, (redacted), will be affected by these policy changes. In particular we found that your products may violate the following policies:

Weapons

When we make this change, Google will disapprove all of the products identified as being in violation of policies. We ask that you make any necessary changes to your feeds and/or site to comply, so that your products can continue to appear on Google Shopping.

To help you through this new set of policies and how to comply with them, we would like to give you some specific suggestions regarding the changes needed to keep your offers running on Google Shopping.

Weapons

As highlighted on our new policy page http://www.google.com/appserve/mkt/ApI7UWRj6OCZpd, in order to comply with the Google Shopping policies you need to comply first with the AdWords policies http://www.google.com/appserve/mkt/StQ08jAzM4fVtG. We do not allow the promotion or sale of weapons and any related products such as ammunitions or accessory kits on Google Shopping. In order to comply with our new policies, please remove any weapon-related products from your data feed and then re-submit your feed in the Merchant Center. For more information on this policy please visit http://www.google.com/appserve/mkt/GbBNIGHOribLzf.

We’re constantly reviewing our policies, and updating them when necessary, to ensure we’re offering the best experience possible to our users. We’ve identified a set of policy principles to govern our policy efforts on Google Shopping in the U.S. These principles are:

1) Google Shopping should provide a positive experience to users. Showing users the right products at the right time can truly enhance a user’s experience. When people trust us to deliver them to a destination that’s relevant, original, and easy to navigate this creates a positive online experience to the benefit of both users and merchants.

2 ) Google Shopping should be safe for all users. User safety is everyone’s business, and we can’t do business with those who don’t agree. Scams, phishing, viruses, and other malicious activities on the Internet damage the value of the Internet for everyone. Trying to get around policies or “game the system” is unfair to our users, and we can’t allow that.

3) Google Shopping should comply with local laws and regulations. Many products and services are regulated by law, which can vary from country to country. All advertising, as well as the products and services being advertised, must clearly comply with all applicable laws and regulations. For the most part, our policies aren’t designed to describe every law in every country. All advertisers bear their own responsibility for understanding the laws applicable to their business. Our policies are often more restrictive than the law, because we need to be sure we can offer services that are legal and safe for all users.

4) Google Shopping should be compatible with Google’s brand decisions. Google Shopping must be compatible with company brand decisions. Our company has a strong culture and values, and we’ve chosen not to allow ads that promote products and services that are incompatible with these values. In addition, like all companies, Google sometimes makes decisions based on technical limitations, resource constraints, or requirements from our business partners. Our policies reflect these realities.

We’ve given much thought to our stance on this content, as well as the potential effect our policy decision could have on our Merchants, and we apologize for any inconvenience this may cause you.

Sincerely,

The Google Shopping Team

[hso]

I think it depends on which server you are going through

That appears to be the case since I just tried Google Shopping from work where our primary server is in California and got nothing for the REC7. Impact Guns popped up with the REC7 in the standard Google Search. So it appears that there is a geographic basis for whether Google Shopping shows results on firearms now.

[Tinker]

HSO,

Just for giggles, tried it again. Google Shop search for Glock 19 gave me this:
------
Your search - glock 19 - did not match any shopping results.

Suggestions:
•Make sure all words are spelled correctly.
•Try different keywords.
•Try more general keywords.
•Try fewer keywords.

[hso]

That's interesting that you get no results in Alabama, but I get results at the house here in TN, but none from the office.

[gfanikf]

4) Google Shopping should be compatible with Google’s brand decisions. Google Shopping must be compatible with company brand decisions. Our company has a strong culture and values, and we’ve chosen not to allow ads that promote products and services that are incompatible with these values. In addition, like all companies, Google sometimes makes decisions based on technical limitations, resource constraints, or requirements from our business partners. Our policies reflect these realities.


Explains why they like doing business with the PRC so much. Nice that Google's values are Anti-Constitutional.

That appears to be the case since I just tried Google Shopping from work where our primary server is in California and got nothing for the REC7. Impact Guns popped up with the REC7 in the standard Google Search. So it appears that there is a geographic basis for whether Google Shopping shows results on firearms now.
Funny I thought they claimed doing this would break the internet, but I guess piracy is a value that matters to them more than the 2A.

Oh I'm being censored in NYC, though our servers go through NJ.

[68wj]

Someone started a petition: https://www.change.org/petitions/tell-google-not-to-interfere-with-our-2nd-amendment-rights-retain-your-current-policy-concerning-weapons Long way from 200,00

Drudge and Breitbart picked it up too: http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/06/30/Google-Big-Obama-Donors-Bans-Firearm-Accessory-Sales-in-Ads

[powell&hyde]

Well I don't know what's going on as google used to be my go to to get prices on guns, ammo, bullets and equipment. Here are some screen shots from a search on "google shopping".

Like I said earlier in this thread, Imr powder shows results but not bullets or guns.
I even tried "Ford Mustang" and got and bunch of results (matchbox cars) but no real cars for sale?

[powell&hyde]

Forgot to add the IMR 3031 powder shopping page.

[mookiie]

Google.com boycot, once they lose money they will change their tune!

[hso]

And back at home I'm back getting results on Google Shopping for the REC7 again. :scrutiny:

[68wj]

For the Facebook users, someone started a page: https://www.facebook.com/GunOwnersAgainstGoogleCensorship

[Trent]

I'm getting very limited results in Illinois.

https://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/458770_434954569868812_379015599_o.jpg

Was looking for some ammo and magazines today, ended up switching my search provider to Bing.

[Ryanxia]

HSO, there is clearly a variable, what it is I don't know, whether location, browser, settings or what, but see screenshot from my search 2 minutes ago. It may not be affecting you but it is definitely legitimate.

Edit: I didn't read your latest posts that you had confirmed the situation. But for anyone else who doubts, see screenshot. Note the disclaimer that their results are based on moneys paid to them.

[Hondo 60]

We probably should cool the rhetoric down a bit and try to avoid getting egg on our faces until we actually see some Anti behavior out of Google since we're not seeing any now that the policy changes are supposed to have gone into effect.

Go to Google & type in any caliber for ammo or guns.
Try the "Shopping" link on the far left.
No results
IMHO that is a dead give away that Google is anti 2nd amendment.

[aeriedad]

Go to Google & type in any caliber for ammo or guns.
Try the "Shopping" link on the far left.
No results
IMHO that is a dead give away that Google is anti 2nd amendment.

If I go to http://www.tangeroutlet.com/brands/ and type in ".45 acp" I get no matches. I still shop there when my kids need blue jeans or tennis shoes. Not sure whether Tanger is or is not anti-2A, but I carry concealed when shopping there (because I have a SC CWP and Tanger isn't posted).

Google Shopping also doesn't allow ads for concert tickets, and Tanger Outlets don't sell concert tickets either. I've never considered whether Google or Tanger are anti-1A (freedom of association).

All that being said, there are lots of reasons not to like Google. I'm just not sure we can make a big deal of their anti-2A views based on Google Shopping. Their regular search engine still hits a lot of gun stuff.

[Ryanxia]

The fact is aeriedad that Google is the 1 stop shop for many people and without it many people don't know where to go or think, 'if it isn't on google it doesn't exist or is wrong'

It's just another private company with their own rights, but the word needs to be spread so we can (just as easily) switch to Bing or another search engine.

[aeriedad]

It's just another private company with their own rights, but the word needs to be spread so we can (just as easily) switch to Bing or another search engine.

Yeah, no real disagreement there. Just saying their anti-2A stance isn't all that apparent to me just because of their restrictive Google Shopping policies. But by all means, let's get the word out re: the alternatives.

[hso]

I'm getting results on Google Shopping using Safari and Firefox from home and none using Explorer and Firefox from the office when I use the same criteria in Shopping.

I don't know enough to know how the differences are being triggered, but I do know that no simple-minded explanation fits the situation.

Yes, Google Shopping has put some sort of firearms filter in place so that any Shopping search run from my office returns no results, but my home searches return plenty.

[Trent]

HSO; Google has an estimated 1+ million web servers. (No official values are ever released, but that's the industry estimations).

It takes awhile to update everything. Usually Google servers (because there are so many of them) are hit based on proximity to your connection; it's highly likely your work internet connection terminates at a different "point" on the backbone than your home connection, or that the two may terminate on different backbones altogether. That means you're hitting different servers (or, banks of servers, rather).

The shopping searches I've done have been getting more and more thin this week, and we're 2 days in.

(I run datacenters in my day job; what you're experiencing isn't unusual - their ban on firearms in shopping WILL reach everyone globally soon enough, just takes awhile to propagate)

[Trent]

Google.com boycot, once they lose money they will change their tune!

Boycotting them won't do much good, unfortunately. You'll make a drop in the water dent on their subscriber base, which won't affect advertising since they're the biggest game in town.

People often forget, but with Google, their PRODUCTS and SERVICES aren't where they make money. They're an advertising firm.

PEOPLE are their products. Advertisers are their customers.

Boycott them all you want, not going to matter. They don't make money on Android phones, Chrome web browser, etc. They make money on ads pushed to those devices, and frankly, there's not ENOUGH of us, in total, to make a difference. As long as they have "critical mass" that makes spending marketing money on them enticing to advertising, they can charge X per ad. We won't push them under critical mass, or alter what they charge (x) per advertisement.

Sucks, but in this case, we're kind of powerless.

Only thing we can do is change our default search engine to Bing to search for gun stuff (without having to search for something and enter 10+ websites individually to pull up pricing). It's about the only way to find a "decent" deal fast. You can probably find the BEST deal by picking around non-indexed/non-subscribing sites (local shops, whatever), but for those of us with time constraints, "best" is often good enough. (E.g. +/- 50 cents a box on ammo, or a $1 difference on magazines, isn't enough to justify me spending an extra 2 hours to find a better deal.)

(Just my .02)

Personally, I'm pissed at Google for doing something so asinine and plan on ditching as much google crap as I can. But that's me. It won't matter, in the long run, but at least *I* will feel better about it.

[powell&hyde]

Here is an alternative site dealing with firearms, optics, reloading etc. http://www.gunspec.com/

From reading the FAQ on the website, it started late last year and just recently added Brownells and Sinclair to the search groups that show prices of items you are looking for.

[Davek1977]

regardless if it "makes a difference" or not, I guess I'm just more comfortable using a search provider that doesnt resort to such tactics, if for no other reason than to know *I* am not supporting Google. My own peace of mind is as important as any real-world impact my actions may have.

[dc.fireman]

And ironically enough, today they have posted this link on the Google splash page:


https://www.google.com/takeaction/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=hpp&utm_campaign=07042012takeactionhpp

[68wj]

And ironically enough, today they have posted this link on the Google splash page:


https://www.google.com/takeaction/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=hpp&utm_campaign=07042012takeactionhpp
Yeah, that is kind of my biggest issue with them. Open and free internet*




*except things we don't like

[outerlimit]

For companies (like Google) that do business in China where they restrict everyone's rights, your firearms rights are a small issue to them.

Like with everything it's all about the money.

[Onward Allusion]

Guys -

I ran into the filtering issue on Google/Shopping a couple of days ago, however, it appears to have been "fixed"? Is Google still blocking/filtering firearm related shopping queries? I just did a query on Keltec Magazines and came back with a slew of links on Shopping. Can anyone confirm???

OA

[gfanikf]

For companies (like Google) that do business in China where they restrict everyone's rights, your firearms rights are a small issue to them.

Like with everything it's all about the money.
It's just nauseating when you hear them lecture on the first amendment, especially when the behavior they protect leads to theft of American intellectual property.

[mookiie]

I already changed all.my search defaults. A good ol fashioned boycott is just what is needed. Soon as they start losing money they will change their tune!

[mookiie]

A boycott would be effective if it becomes widespread, if the firearm community as a whole walks away from google they will lose money on adds because they have a smaller audience. To say a boycott will have no effect you are conceding without giving the option a chance, you urself are then defeating the boycott, it works one person at a time.

[Robbins290]

I'm totally not happy with this. I'm boycotting them!

[BluEyes]

Boycotting them won't do much good, unfortunately. You'll make a drop in the water dent on their subscriber base, which won't affect advertising since they're the biggest game in town.

People often forget, but with Google, their PRODUCTS and SERVICES aren't where they make money. They're an advertising firm.

PEOPLE are their products. Advertisers are their customers.

To take it even further, MOUSE CLICKS are their products. To say that we can't make a difference is self-defeating. If we take our mouse clicks away - and I mean really take them away, all of them, then that will show up in their statistics. In addition, there are other groups who don't like Google for other reasons. Get enough people together and you can change the biggest game in town.

[Trent]

True enough, guys. I did a search on Bing, see a thread just like this one in just about EVERY firearms forum out there right now.

If it's gonna happen, it needs to happen NOW while it has everyone's full attention!

I for one, am done with Google PERIOD until the policy changes.

[68wj]

On Forbes now: http://www.forbes.com/sites/frankminiter/2012/07/05/google-sadly-joins-the-anti-gun-brigade/?partner=yahootix

[MrDig]

I get results for all kinds of things like HKS Speed Loaders and other nonsense but no results for firearms themselves.
This is different from a few days ago when I got no results whatsoever.
Even more nonsensical Google "Hunter Specialties" and you get all kinds of shopping results

[Skribs]

The problem with boycotting Google, as I mentioned in another thread, is that Google is so vested in the internet that you literally can't avoid giving them advertising funds. Want to know one way to avoid Google? Stop going to THR. I see google ads on this very site! Granted, it's all gun related ads, but it's Google ads nonetheless.

How many of you have an android phone? There's a piece of Google.
How many have a gmail account? That's been my account for almost a decade, which everyone knows how to get ahold of me through.
How many people use other Google services, such as Youtube (pretty much the standard for posting gun reviews and informational pieces) or Blogspot (again, a very standard site that is used by a lot of people for firearms blogs).

I disagree with what Google is doing here, but it just doesn't seem feasible for me to break away from them.

[Twmaster]

I cancelled my Google+ and YouTube accounts today. When asked why I told them I was boycotting them due to their stance on gun listings in Google Shopping.

[s9601694]

like i said in the other thread:

Google = Commies

As a result of the article i read yesterday (im a little slow) about google and their BS, i decided to look if Bing was doing the same.. my search brought me to Grab-A-Gun and I ended up ordering a Kahr CM9 for $351.50 shipped!!!!

I would like to thank Google for orchastrating this evil weapons purchase!

[19-3Ben]

Ok, I left them some feedback to let them know that I'll use Bing and Ask.com until their policy is rescinded.

[ccsniper]

when is this supposed to be implemented? I just went to google shopping and did a search tactical vest, smith and wesson, double star, and high capacity magazines and all returned the desired search product.

[19-3Ben]

Odd. I just tried a search for Smith and Wesson, and it came back as:

Your search - smith and wesson - did not match any shopping results.

[ccsniper]

Odd. I just tried a search for Smith and Wesson, and it came back as:

Quote:
Your search - smith and wesson - did not match any shopping results.
__________________

I wonder if it is blocked by area here is my results
http://tinyurl.com/6rg9rsg

Edit to add: I just tried my link not logged in, it didn't work. But when I am logged in it works fine.

[gpjoe]

This does anger me a bit. I can switch search engines, but I JUST replaced my old Android phone with a new one last week. arrrgh. I would have gotten an iPhone if I had known (and not really an Apple fan either). Now I'm tied to Google for at least a couple of more years.

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Ok, searching from the Safari browser on my iPhone, I went to Google, selected "Shopping" and searched for .223, which yielded a page full of various rifles, so I narrowed it down to ".223 ammo" and also got many results. This is as of July 12th (11 days after deadline in letter). Is Google following through on this or not? I have degoogled as a result of this; but would be happy to have an excuse to go back.

[ccsniper]

Ok, searching from the Safari browser on my iPhone, I went to Google, selected "Shopping" and searched for .223, which yielded a page full of various rifles, so I narrowed it down to ".223 ammo" and also got many results. This is as of July 12th (11 days after deadline in letter). Is Google following through on this or not? I have degoogled as a result of this; but would be happy to have an excuse to go back.
__________________

Are you signed in on safari? Sign out and try again.

[wojownik]

Google's implementation of their "ban" is asinine. On google shopping, if you search under "Sig Sauer" it reports back "did not match any shopping results". :cuss: However, the ad box right below the search results contains several links for firearms vendors and accessory stores. So they will ban firearms in their Google Shopping service, but happily take money from firearms merchants in Google Ads. Freaking hypocrites.

But ... if you search under "Sig Sauer underwear" a few actual firearms results come back from an Outdoor Sports store. :confused:

OK, don't ask me why I was shopping for Sig Sauer underwear. Though having "To Hell and Back Reliability" emblazoned on my boxers would be nice :evil:

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Not signed in to anything.

[hso]

I'm running Safari at home and getting the same results as always.

When I bring Firefox up it get ... no results in Google Shopping.

I make sure I sign in on Google through IG for both, but I get different results.

That's interesting.

[MachIVshooter]

Just sent Google and Youtube messages in no uncertain terms that I would not be using thier sites or anyone affiliated with them, not buying from any merchants who advertise with them, and telling all of my pro-RKBA friends to do the same. Then I blocked both google and youtube through my router.

[RX-178]

Just an update:

As of the time of this posting, I can still get shopping results such as Caracal pistols, Saiga shotguns and rifles, magpul pmags, and .45 ACP ammo.

I'm using Firefox.

edited to add: Wojownik, I just searched for Sig Sauer and got a page full of Sig p2022s, and a couple of P226Rs and one Sig 551 rifle. Again, using firefox.

[Windy Wilson]

Sig Sauer sells underwear with "to hell and back reliability"? :D I might be buying some more underwear in the near future.

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Still getting firearms shopping results with Safari. Haven't tried IE yet.

[BluEyes]

Interesting. On Firefox here; both Ruger and Smith and Wesson come up with no results. Mosin Nagant comes up with accessories but none of the surplus rifles.

[68wj]

Bing/Microsoft has instituted the same policy. Not sure if this is old and was overlooked, or a new development.

http://advertising.microsoft.com/small-business/support-center/search-advertising/disallowed-content-guidelines
Advertising is not allowed that promotes firearms or weapons of any kind...

[Eb1]

That's fine. If it comes down to it. Drop the internet. If over 10,000,000 people drop their internet connections, and cell phone connection due to this reason. You will see a drop in service price, and you will see advertising on firearms. I don't mind going to the local gun shop. Hockey sticks. Even his prices are starting to compete with online orders after shipping, fines, taxes, etc.

Never hurts to pick up a book every once in a while, and I kinda liked getting lost on the Harley every now and then. Might find a good bbq place. I noticed on a 300 mile ride yesterday from my street to across the state of AR, I had the most beautiful ride, and didn't even know it. I found mom and pop shops that had been closed due to box stores, but some were open, and you were greeted with a, howdy. Sure is hot out there. Where you headed? Looking for the water cooler? There are some nice sites about 20 miles up the road. You know conversation. It was "WEIRD!" LOL I am seriously thinking of cutting out the satelite ,accept during hockey season, gotta have the hockey. Being that we do not have a contract for DTV we can suspend our survice for up to 9 months per year, and come back whenever we like.

But then again, I wouldn't have THR. Sigh... What to do then? Read? Read the Bible, classic stories, and all of those classic gun rags and books I never did because they were long gone by the time I was born 1975? Teach my kids to play rummy and gin, Yahtzee, checkers, and other family games. Maybe sit and play the piano for a couple hour a night. Take longer walks, throw a baseball, and grab a fishing pole. Doesn't sound to bad does it?

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Not sure what Bing's policy is but they are showing firearms in their shopping results on both Safari and IE.

[PT92]

I must say that I am quite surprised that Microsoft (bing.com) has yet to 'pull the plug' on firearms shopping. I will for the moment give credit where credit is do in that the customer still has the option available (IMO not comparable whatsoever to Google's now defunct functionality but still quite usable). That being said, notice that I did say "yet."

-Cheers

[parsimonious_instead]

That's one of the reasons gunspec.com was created...

[PT92]

Thanks for that link--I will try it out.

-Cheers