[edji-x]

I have a family of my wife, 1 girl, 2 boys. My daughter is currently 6 and my boys are 2 & 1. Over the last couple months, my daughter has been expressing increased interest in shooting. When she was younger, we attempted to teach her a CO2 bb pistol. My wife and I both have semi auto's, with CCW permits, a 9mm and 45, respectively. So, my daughter is saying she wants to shoot, "a real gun. Not a bb gun." I can follow her logic.

So, my problem lies in my wife wasn't really brought up in a home with guns, and I haven't exactly had the best experience with guns, although, I do love them. I accidentally shot a flint lock muzzle loader in my house at age 4-5, my parents knocked the powder out of the flashpan, and it was legally considered unloaded. Right up to the point of me, having watched how to fire it, was playing with it unattended. I wasn't allowed to touch guns until I was older, then had a 357 magnum and a 30-06 put in my hand, expected to be a marksman at 10-11 years old. It didn't end well. Also, after having 308 and 30-06 ammo on a bench, my father fired a 308 out a 30-06.

So, I really don't want that repeated. I have a couple developing friendships that may help me with this. I don't really know much about firearms, except from what I've deduced from my own experience about safety, knowledge, and common sense. I feel comfortable with my knowledge of firearms, but the prospect of teaching my daughter brings a lot of anxiety.

Since my daughter is interested at what seems like a too young age, I've asked around, and was told by a certified gun instructor that this is a perfect age to start. I don't feel satisfied by one person though. Legally, she's able to shoot at whatever age, and I feel she exhibits the proper mental capacity and maturity to safely operate a gun, given my obvious concern for safety with them, and the extremely close supervision. I've taken her to a large outdoorsman outfitter, and she's really interested in semi auto and revolvers. Rifles don't pique her interest at this point.

So, all of that to express this:

Given what I know, and experienced, I feel I either don't know, or maybe just lack confidence that I possess the necessary knowledge to teach her properly. If this is her hobby, I want her to learn it correctly. I want this to be a good experience, not a bad one, and most of all, safe.

What is making me nervous is I feel that there's probably a lot of safety things that I don't even know about handling guns, especially semi automatic pistols, which she's leaning towards. A professional instructor would be nice, but it's not financially possible, plus she wants daddy to teach her.

I guess what I'm asking is if what I'm going through is normal, any personal tips or tricks, anything constructive criticism/helpful advice about teaching her correctly. Also, I'm very interested in how to approach it, what to teach when, etc. Maybe a decent guide to doing this. Scouring the net, the only real clear thing I've noticed is almost everything I was taught added up for the perfect recipe for disaster.

One last note, I'm thinking about approaching it as, safety always through each step, first and foremost, and going something like, how to operate a firearm, how it works, how to care for it, and then shooting. I apologize if it's in the wrong thread, I figure that this thread may yield more specific responses to handguns, that may be pertinent. Thanks!

[Scimmia]

and I feel she exhibits the proper mental capacity and maturity to safely operate a gun

If that's the case, then this does sound like the perfect time. Start off with Cooper's Four Rules. Once she knows and understands all of them, a 22lr rifle is the traditional place to start and I would recommend that vs a handgun. More easily controlled, grip size isn't such an issue, and harder to forget and sweep the line with. If you started a poll here, I would expect the vast majority of us started with a 22lr rifle.

If you really have to go with a handgun, I would still suggest 22lr, and make sure to only load it one round at a time.

[bigfatdave]

http://www.corneredcat.com/Contents/

The Four Rules

All guns are always loaded.
Never point the gun at anything you are not willing to destroy.
Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on target (and you have made the decision to shoot).
Be sure of your target and what is beyond it.


When a child can explain the 4 rules and demonstrate them with a replica (pellet gun, airsoft) then it may be time to consider moving up to live fire


http://www.corneredcat.com/Is_Your_Child_Ready_for_the_Range/
http://www.corneredcat.com/The_First_Trip_to_the_Range/

Start with airsoft, move up to a .22lr, then consider centerfire pistol

[EnglishmanInArizona]

I won't comment on a lot of your post as I don't feel qualified.

Six year olds (probably girls particularly) are old enough to tell fantasy from reality, so some exposure to dangerous objects seems reasonable. I was given my first Swiss Army Knife at 7, and after the basic "don't cut toward yourself" was set loose with it without supervision. First time I hurt myself with it I was 15 (and far more stupid than I was at 7).

How did the BB gun handling go? I wouldn't let her handle a real handgun until she handles the BB gun as if it is a deadly weapon.

I would also advocate a rifle before a handgun, taught prone, no loading until prone with muzzle downrange. Quite difficult to do something fatally unsafe in that situation, but still a good chance to teach basic marksmanship principles and weapon handling.

I know you want to encourage her enthusiasm by giving her what she's asking for, but don't underestimate how hard a kid will work to get something they want. Make graduating to a real handgun a big accomplishment for her and she will remember her first shots and the pride on your face for the rest of her life.

On the other hand, start out with you feeling anxious, and chances are she'll be nervous too (six year old girls have supernatural empathy, I tell you), she'll swing the muzzle some place she shouldn't and you'll yell. Not a good start, and possibly the end for a year or more.

If she's not willing to work for it - there is plenty of time yet.

Good luck with bringing her on, and kudos to you for even considering it at her age.

[EnglishmanInArizona]

Apologies - cross-posted with others saying the same thing.

[Ranger30-06]

.22 lr rifle all the way, better yet if its a single shot so you can eliminate every mechanical error possible.

That said, before she even had the gun in her hands, I would do the classic "fruit shoot" to show why we never point guns at another person. I believe this is one of, if not THE most effective way of teaching muzzle control to a child.

[Fat_46]

Great advice in here, and the same basic routine I followed with my daughter. After the 4 Rules were ingrained, she received her first rifle(a Crickett in pink). She showed proficiency and safety with it, and within a few weeks she was given the opportunity to shooy my Ruger Single Six. She loved it!

Be careful, though...my daughter is now 10, and we just picked up a Savage FV in 204 for her last weekend. It now "her" 5th firearm(only county the Rossi Trifecta as 1).

[Sam1911]

You're aware, and concerned. That's precisely what she needs. You won't make the same horrible mistakes others made with you, and so you will be able to help her succeed far more easily than you did.

Gun safety is gun safety. The four rules are absolutely the foundation of everything else that follows and she must have them nailed. This can be more frustrating than it should be as you're likely to see a lot of behavior at the range (in others) that does not uphold that standard. Stick to a habit of talking with her about each safety rule as you apply each one throughout your range sessions. ("Now we're getting ready to load the rifle. We're checking first to make sure the muzzle is still pointed downrange. Our fingers are off the trigger..." etc.)

Semi-autos make things a little more complicated, but only in that the unloading and clearing procedure is more involved. Practice it until you can't get it wrong ("Unload" -- drop the mag, "show clear" -- retract slide/bolt and visually ensure that the chambered round is removed) and as with all the other safety rules, TALK her through what you're doing as you perform the steps, and through what she's doing as she performs the steps when it is her turn. Saying it out loud as you do it keeps you on track, makes sure she's following you, and reinforces the safety procedures until they're worn-in tracks in your mind that become habits you won't deviate from.

[Sam1911]

Some thoughts I wrote in other threads, just offered as points to ponder:

First off -- congrats on being a concerned and responsible parent! This is a very important question.

My principles on the matter are these:

1) Never, ever hide your guns or your shooting habits/hobbies/activities from your children. Always be completely open with them and answer any question and allow access any time they show interest -- no matter how young. Every time a kid wants to know something -- tell them. Every time they want to touch a gun, help them to do so (safely). Hiding things just screws up what should be a wonderful part of your relationship, and sets the stage for confusion, mistrust, and sneaking around as they get older.

2) Every opportunity to answer a question and help them to touch and explore your guns is a critical teaching moment to instill the four safety rules. Show them your own rigorous safety practices, teach them to follow the same, and GUN-proof your kids, rather than trying to KID-proof your guns.

3) Shooting can start as soon as the kid shows interest. My daughter and oldest son were both pulling triggers at age 3. I say "pulling triggers" as they were sitting in my lap, with my arms around them and my hands over theirs, controlling the firearms. But they wanted to, they were not scared (and certainly were not PUSHED into it), and making the guns go bang was always a reward for being able to recite a safety rule or two. FIND SAFETY GEAR THAT'S KID-SIZED! It is available, pretty easily these days, and must fit them well to do its job.

4) Everything is at the child's pace. No reason to rush or push them into shooting, or to make them continue at it for one second longer than their interest and enthusiasm holds out. Better to leave 'em wanting more than to tire them out, bore them, or (heaven forbid) make them frightened or hurt by the guns.


My two school-aged kids both started sitting in my lap, with my hands over theirs, shooting .22 pistols at 3 years. Then AKs. Now that my daughter is 8 she prefers my 629.

Every step has to be REQUESTED by the kid -- I won't push them an inch farther than they're comfortable going -- and they aren't shooting the guns on their own. At that age they aren't in control of anything but the trigger itself. Even in later years my teaching style is VERY physically close. Kids can't be completely in control and responsible for the safety issues. They need to learn them and understand them, but the adult has to be in absolute control of the weapon at all times. It just isn't fair to place a child in a position of responsibility for life and death events.


(Yay, another excuse to post my favorite picture! :)) This is my daughter and I when she was seven. She'd been shooting occasionally for several years at this point and has a little experience and confidence, but my position here in the safety/supervisory role is still very close and focused. Also note her solid, weight-forward stance and proper grip form. If you can teach those to your daughter they will go a long way to her meeting with success.


http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc184/sam1911/Teaching-1.jpg

Good luck!

[moxie]

Agree you can start her out learning the rules.

Beyond that, though, you've repeatedly expressed a lack of confidence in your ability to be her teacher.

And, at least right now, a professional is not in the budget.

So, for now, it might be best to hold off on any actual training until your skill and confidence levels increase. You can probably find others who will help you in this. Hey, she's only 6. Plenty of time.

[jad0110]

.22 lr rifle all the way, better yet if its a single shot so you can eliminate every mechanical error possible.

That said, before she even had the gun in her hands, I would do the classic "fruit shoot" to show why we never point guns at another person. I believe this is one of, if not THE most effective way of teaching muzzle control to a child.

I did this with my son, and can vouch for its effectiveness. I blew up a few melons, apples, water bottles, etc when he was 4 or so. Though he did giggle some (I explained yes, it can be rather fun), I also pointed out that the gun can do that do something you really care about. A friend, a family member, etc. He is 5 now, and when he sees me handling a weapon he is always quick to remind me not to point it at anyone (I don't of course, but the reminders are greatly appreciated :cool: ) .

[Mind the Gap]

Might I suggest picking up copies of Boy Scout rifle and shotgun merritt badge pamphlets? They are only a few bucks each and contain valuable information. My entire foundation for shooting is based on what I learned in the scouts. In addition, you could have your daughter complete the requirements for the badge to prove that she understands all the concepts to your satisfaction. Keep in mind, these booklets were meant to teach 12-18 year olds, so you will probably need to help her out with some of the more complex concepts and bigger words.

[rajb123]

My first gun was given to me at age 6.

Perfect time to learn gun safety.... rules are everything.

[BSA1]

I would strongly suggest the your wife, daughter and yourself attend a Young Hunters Safety Class sponsored by the NRA. With fall approaching they will start being offered soon.

A excellent way to impress on children that guns are not toys is too shoot a can of soda and a jug of water. The sight of the exploding containers will make a big impression.

[sargents1]

Sounds like you need training as much as she does.

Go get yourself into a couple of pistol classes. Not just the basic CPW class, but the somewhat more advanced classes that last a weekend or so. Then get yourself to a range and do some plate-shoot events, IDPA, etc. Build your skills and your confidence before you try to teach her.

Once you have done that, go out and pick up a .22lr pistol that she can shoot. Look into Ruger's SR22 or something like that, that has modern features. Manual Safety, Loaded chamber indicator, swappable grips etc. Work up from there.

Good luck and be safe.

[MARKMALL]

I think 6 is a very good age to start shooting. I do not think 6 is a good age to start shooting with a centerfire handgun! Like others have said, start her out on 22 rifle. A cricket youth rifle from Buds Gun Shop is only $111.00.

[Skribs]

It all depends on the 6 year old.

Personally, I think most kids are better off learning before adolescence, as opposed to during. They're more likely to listen and try to learn to what their hero wants to teach them, as opposed to prove that they know better than the old duffer who cares too much about these darn safety rules.

[edji-x]

Wow. I wasn't expecting such a response in that little time! So reading through, I'll summarize my thoughts.

Overwhelming the Cooper's 4 Rules. I've never even heard of them before. But, I can recall a bunch of times each were broken while growing up. Thinking back, I can remember applying these rules when I was shooting, so I guess I did that right, even though I did get in trouble for it....As far as reciting them back, I think that's an excellent idea. As I said, I'm taking a very strong approach to safety thinking about this.

The melon/soda/water bottle trick. You know, I've seen it on TV a bunch of times, but it never crossed my mind to show her that. Is there any that work better than others? Or maybe just showing the power of it over a broad range that works better?

I didn't mention this originally, but yes, she'd be starting at nothing more than a 22lr caliber. I've never shot a 17 HMR, but I guess they're about the same, and 22's are in easy stock, both firearms and ammunition. I like the idea of 1 round at a time. Again, I've always been if there's room for more, keep loading. I saw one of those 'motivational pics' one time of the A-10's 30mm minigun, captioned 'Peace through superior firepower.' That's pretty much what was drilled into me, and looking at firearms differently now, that's kind of a.....poor.....way to teach a child.

My anxiety and worry. That's an issue for me. For obvious reasons I could probably write a book about, firearms cause a certain amount of anxiety, recalling the events. Never having any proper training about safety, coupled with the past, leaves me second guessing every decision about firearms. I know before, I felt my knowledge was sufficient, but now, thinking at it as teaching my kid, I'm left wondering if I really do know enough. I'm extremely concerned about not knowing safety practices that maybe are firearm type specific or what have you. I am developing a friendship with a guy in law enforcement. He seems very knowledgeable in law and firearms, so, I'm hoping I can alleviate this issue.

Rifle, pistol, revolver. When I had her at the store, I showed her revolvers, pistols, and hunting and assault rifles, along with shotguns. My idea was, let her pick something she felt comfortable with holding. Every rifle and shotgun frightened her, but she did try each.

@Englishmaninarizona: When she shot the BB pistol, it was of her asking. She was 3, maybe almost 4. At any rate, as we explained to her safety, she did follow the rules set forth for her, better than I thought she would. But, we allowed her to shoot soda cans, and yes, she followed all of our instructions.

@Sam1911: Your posts intrigued me the most. For me, the honesty we try to instill in our children is important, and reading your posts made it clear that there's no reason it shouldn't be with firearms. Along with that, bringing up something else I didn't think about yet was the actions of others at ranges. I believe that will also play a role in her learning, as I remember it did for me. Albeit, it was a much better example in my case than what I anticipate with teaching my daughter, and probably my boys too.

Another thing that caught my eye was moving at their pace. I kinda had guns, and, well, everything shoved down my throat, resulting in poor views of things. So, that's why it's seeming like a pistol will be her first gun. Rifles and the like didn't interest her, and she acted very apprehensively around them. She did try them, and said they made her afraid. As she's never seen a rifle, I felt it prudent that she at least experienced them. The absolute last thing I wish to do is force it on her, as interests and hobbies of any kind, I believe are her choice.

As your post went on, I have 3 questions. First is the more complicated clearing of semi-automatics. I'm not comprehending your meaning. I've always been under the impression of, clear the gun means the magazine and chamber exposed, visual check of each, which seems almost identical to any firearm. I understand most operation of firearms, so it's not a 'this is the differences' type thing. Could you elaborate more on being more complicated with semi's?

Second question is "Kid-sized" safety gear. My first impression is some kind of trigger lock that a 6 month old can't swallow. I'm thinking that you mean stuff like youth sized hearing protection, safety glasses, the like. Which, for us, is more of a way of life. Buy what your child needs, as I would for myself, not what makes safety look good.

Third, what is a 629? I don't know much about firearm models. I've become more aware of safety features and such I want on a firearm, I never was much of a details person in that way....it's been go in, pick it up, see what I liked, didn't like, keep moving until I find one I really like.

I wasn't expecting such a large response, really. It's hard to fathom people genuinely caring about safety, and so many, for me. I also did not expect the knowledgeable and informative replies. It's actually quite nice to see safety is the main focus of most. I'm also grateful to see that her age area is around the general age most are introduced to guns. It seems now that I pretty much do take all the safety precautions, I'll need to build my confidence level more to teach her. Having never had any real experience with proper safety, self doubt, I guess, seems normal. Again, thank you all again for the ideas and knowledge, and any more information.

[basicblur]

Can't help ya much with the actual shooting, but she's at that age where curiousity may get the better of her.
When my daughter was younger, she was fascinated by my sportbike - I told her she was NOT to touch it (didn't want it falling on her), but any time she wanted, just let me know and I'd spend as much time as she wanted watching her check it out (but you better be prepared to drop everything and indulge them any time they ask).

It seemed to work great - I never once caught her or saw signs of her around it, although for a while she did ofent want me to show it to her / let her play on it.

I did come home one evening to find handprints all over it!
I asked her why she didn't wait for me to get home - she told me those handprints were granny's! :D

[Sam1911]

For obvious reasons I could probably write a book about, firearms cause a certain amount of anxiety, recalling the events. Never having any proper training about safety, coupled with the past, leaves me second guessing every decision about firearms.
I think most of us can relate with that to some degree or another. Safety issues were not the "big deal" they are now when most of us were growing up, and the more organic ("this is how grandpa did it" or "whatever I done thunk of myself") version of gun handling practices prevailed. My own young experiences were not so bad, that I can recall, but I was rarely availed of firearms most appropriate to teaching youngsters -- because they weren't readily available. Heck, my most memorable shooting teaching was shooting a 20ga. Ithaca37 pump shotgun sitting down. I was a very scrawny 5-6 year old and it hit me so hard I fell over. Not the best way to introduce someone, but here I am some decades later so... :)

For what it may be worth, it was competition shooting that brought the whole picture into focus for me. Meeting and participating with large numbers of people who were incredibly proficient shooters and who also took safety to be job number 1.0 was very eye-opening.

Rifle, pistol, revolver. When I had her at the store, I showed her revolvers, pistols, and hunting and assault rifles, along with shotguns. My idea was, let her pick something she felt comfortable with holding. Every rifle and shotgun frightened her, but she did try each.This makes a lot of sense, but starting out some things will be better than others. My kids love the little Savage Cub rifle and the tiny Ruger Bearcat single-action revolver. I'm not going to subject any of them to something that will cause physical pain, or be too big/heavy a gun to handle comfortably.

the actions of others at ranges. I believe that will also play a role in her learning, as I remember it did for me. Albeit, it was a much better example in my case than what I anticipate with teaching my daughter, and probably my boys too. This may be the highest hurdle for you. YOU have to be the expert, in her eyes. Not that you have to pretend to know all, or be infallible, but she can't look at Bubba and Tactical Earl on the next lane sweeping everyone with their muzzles and think they've got more on the ball than you. Learn enough to be confident in your own understanding, and don't be afraid to assert yourself on matters of safety.

As your post went on, I have 3 questions. First is the more complicated clearing of semi-automatics. I'm not comprehending your meaning. I've always been under the impression of, clear the gun means the magazine and chamber exposed, visual check of each, which seems almost identical to any firearm. I understand most operation of firearms, so it's not a 'this is the differences' type thing. Could you elaborate more on being more complicated with semi's?You have it, I think. The point is that many firearms can be "cleared" in one step. A double-action revolver with a swing-out cylinder can be rendered safe simply by pressing the latch and opening the cylinder. A double-barrel shotgun can be "broken open" and it's safe. Etc. A semi-auto must be cleared by FIRST removing the mag and THEN extracting the live round. Forget a step and the gun is still "hot." Many people have negligently fired their weapons when they forgot to drop the mag BEFORE racking the slide, and so inadvertantly loaded another round!

Second question is "Kid-sized" safety gear. My first impression is some kind of trigger lock that a 6 month old can't swallow. I'm thinking that you mean stuff like youth sized hearing protection, safety glasses, the like. Which, for us, is more of a way of life. Buy what your child needs, as I would for myself, not what makes safety look good.:) Exactly. Big-folks shooting glasses don't protect well and don't stay on. Foam ear plugs DO NOT fit in little people's ears. Get stuff made for their statures.

Third, what is a 629? I don't know much about firearm models.Smith and Wesson .44 Magnum revolver. She's shooting milder .44 Special rounds in it, with minimal recoil, about like a .45ACP.

[rcmodel]

IMO: You need to buy a small .22 revolver like a Ruger Bearcat or S&W Kit Gun.

I taught Kansas Hunter Safety for years with kids that age up to teens.
And I'm here to tell you, an excited pre-teen and a semi-auto pistol is just looking for bad things to happen.

They can shoot, jump 2' straight in the air with excitement, and land going the other direction with a loaded gun pointed your way before you can blink.

You don't want that gun to be a semi-auto pistol with a light trigger pull and another round in the chamber!

The revolver adds an extra step of manually cocking the SA Bearcat, or a heavy DA pull on the uncocked S&W.
They are also much more convient to load one round at a time then an auto during the initial training.

rc

[danez71]

My anxiety and worry. That's an issue for me. For obvious reasons I could probably write a book about, firearms cause a certain amount of anxiety, recalling the events. Never having any proper training about safety, coupled with the past, leaves me second guessing every decision about firearms. I know before, I felt my knowledge was sufficient, but now, thinking at it as teaching my kid, I'm left wondering if I really do know enough. I'm extremely concerned about not knowing safety practices that maybe are firearm type specific or what have you. I am developing a friendship with a guy in law enforcement. He seems very knowledgeable in law and firearms, so, I'm hoping I can alleviate this issue.



Another thing that caught my eye was moving at their pace. I kinda had guns, and, well, everything shoved down my throat, resulting in poor views of things. So, that's why it's seeming like a pistol will be her first gun. Rifles and the like didn't interest her, and she acted very apprehensively around them. She did try them, and said they made her afraid. As she's never seen a rifle, I felt it prudent that she at least experienced them. The absolute last thing I wish to do is force it on her, as interests and hobbies of any kind, I believe are her choice.



This is good stuff right here. Just a few things I want to say so I dont write a novel.

Better for her to learn from you about firearm than from someone else that you dont know.

IMO, teaching her about firearms is as important as teaching her how to swim. At some point in her life, she will be around a body of water and a firearm with out you there. Give her the tools to survive both. I feel it was my duty as a parent.

My adult daughter really didnt have an interest in shooting until late late teens. But she learned about them starting early on. Slowly.... at her pace... she went from knowing what to do, or not do, around them... to wanting to go shooting. And I was there, not some stranger, to assit her through the journey.

[taraquian]

I have two girls, I bought them Cricketts at ages six and seven, they are now 8 and11 and will pipe up and TELL" bubba and Tactical Earl" to keep the muzzle downrange. If they wont my girls will ppack up and getin the truck. I wish that my son who started shooting at 9 was as focused...but my 1911 has him interested again.

As others have said, go slow, get equipment the right size and be the 'master'.

The Boy Scout books are a great idea, thats where I learned and its still good info. As a side note I use a semi auto for pistol training, I just only put one round in the mag, that way they have to get used to dropping the mag and racking the slide, insert other mag, charge and fire. It gets them used to the mechanics of the gun and itsbsafety procedures very quickly.

[.44 Associate]

The NRA does a pretty good job with training and instruction. http://www.nrahq.org/education/index.asp

They also have basic marksmanship courses (with heavy emphasis on safety) which can be administered by a six year old's proud father. http://www.nrahq.org/education/index.asp

[Diver9543]

This is an excellent forum. As a grandfather the information is of most importance. I have saved the links and look forward to reviewing the information so I can pass the info to my grandkids. The High Road and all concerned have again taken the initiative to stand out above all others in helping with a very important part of a child’s life. Anyone with firearms in the house that has kids needs to follow the steps of education. Even if the kids are not interested in shooting they need to know the information about firearms safety.

Like others, I started on a .22lr rifle. My dad would sit on the ground and balance it on his shoulder for me. Not the safest position, but we didn’t have a range with a bench rest. Dad would take me to one of the local area “chat piles” and we used Mom’s canning jars for targets. I was taught the 4 steps of firearms handling. To me they were common sense safety steps, just didn’t have a name. Again, thanks everyone for their valuable input.

[Clark]

My first born responsible nerd at age 6 was mature enough to have driven, carried, and held a job.

My last born friendly comedian now at age 22.... I am not arming that kid.

[tguil]

You are very right to feel anxious about your daughter and gun training. I have worked with young children all my life...both as a teacher and elementary school principal for almost 40 years. I am also a "gun nut", BUT in my personal and professional opinion no way should a six-year-old...any six-year-old be handling handguns. They are for "grown ups". She has plenty of time to learn gun safety as a teenager.

[NG VI]

I'm sure others have said it and you must realize it, but your parents did almost everything wrong they possibly could as far as introducing you to guns and even just owning guns with a kid in the house.

You can't possibly make the same level of mistakes, having suffered through them yourself. Be safe, find some nice target-loaded ammunition for the guns you have, and do your best to have a great day at the range with your daughter.

You will explain things to her just fine, and she will respect both her parents and lethal weapons far more for it, as well as have some great bonding time with you and a chance to learn a pretty neat set of skills.

[Sam1911]

BUT in my personal and professional opinion no way should a six-year-old...any six-year-old be handling handguns. They are for "grown ups". She has plenty of time to learn gun safety as a teenager.
Yikes! I'd sure like to think I got a lot of quality time and training into their heads before they hit those fantastic (:rolleyes:)TEENAGE years!

If I was to wait on teaching them to safely handle all manner of firearms until they were teenagers, I'd certainly feel I'd failed as a parent, or at least squandered a critically valuable opportunity.

[tguil]

To the OP: If you are really anxious about this, I think that you should check it out with a person who knows and works with young children. A gun forum is not the best place to ask what a young child is capable of understanding. There are lots of things we don't let young children do simply because they are not ready. Parents and the adults in their lives make decisions for children.That's what we are supposed to do. A "kiddo" should not decide what gun she wants to shoot and when she should shoot it. Every once in a while listen to what the "experts" have to offer. Most of the guys on this on this forum are gun "experts". Not child development "experts". My two cents and it really is worth a lot more than that.

[7.62 Nato]

Invest in your daughter by investing in a certified trainer. There are also great programs like NRAs Eddie Eagle for safety, and The Appleseed Project that teaches safety, shooting basics, and a little history for fun. After she gets the initial training, you may want to do the Appleseed shoot as a family with your daughter, and wife. I did Appleseed last year because I'm "self taught". I may do it again.

[Sam1911]

My two cents and it really is worth a lot more than that.

Ok tugil, you've put yourself out here as our child development expert, so you're going to have to explain EXACTLY what harm you think is likely to be done if young children are exposed to handguns.

Obviously the safety issues are handled already -- the children are not deciding which safety practices to follow and are not responsible for whether they are upheld or not, the adults directing the event are -- so that's not the issue you're concerned with.

Most of us had some experience with arms of various sorts before we hit teenage years. Some of those experiences were good, and some were poor. And we bring those experiences here and try to distill how to do better with our own kids. What are we missing in your expert opinion?

All of us have our children's well-being as our very most primary concern. But shielding them from everything that could possibly traumatize them (if that is the concern (?)) or through some remote chance might cause them injury, even though we've exercised all reasonable safety precautions, is not healthy for them either.

I'm sure you don't want to come across as the Chicken Little school marm wagging a finger over nameless fears and general amorphous "danger." So it is important that you express your concerns very plainly and support them adequately.

[tguil]

I'm far from a "Chicken Little school marm". I expressed my opinion, just as you expressed yours. No matter what I do or say, I'll not change your position, nor will you change mine.

I'm just suggesting that the OP check with a few folks other than gun forum members. Folks who really know what young children are like. Kids do not think like adults. It's that simple.

[Sam1911]

I understand that you feel it isn't that simple. You just haven't said WHAT your concern IS!

If you are concerned, surely you are concerned about some actual THING, some negative result you could explain.

If it is worth worrying about or delaying firearms introduction because of, then surely you can share it here.

"If you take your 6 year old to the shooting range and begin firearms/handgunning instruction with them the following negative might happen:" (Your thoughts here.)

[NG VI]

I work with kids all the time, albeit in very brief increments.

To a one I get the best results from them when I speak to them and try to engage them in what we're doing (family portraiture, so they can be resistant), and I can't imagine any child anywhere is just an insane, totally unreasonable person just because they are young.

Children are small, not fully developed people, but they are still people. They aren't parental property, they aren't dangerous and untrustworthy animals, and they aren't adults, but their brains still work just fine if you take the time to explain what the facts on the ground are to them.

It's really not any different than teaching any other newcomer to the shooting world, if they aren't paying attention, you get their attention somehow (positive attempts to encourage discipline works for me, they usually have more fun following the idiot with the camera's orders than they do trying to ignore him completely) or you stop and wait for another time, after explaining why their range time is being put on hold.

The difference is that you can make more of an impact on children, so you don't have to give up on them as quickly as you do with an adult. And they aren't responsible adults, so you have to be very deliberate and do what you can to make it impossible for them to do something dangerous, but how is that any different from any other new shooter?

[Art Eatman]

My rifle instruction at age six was my grandfather handing me his .22 and saying, "Now, don't shoot a cow."

I didn't.

I was doing the show-and-tell thing with a 1911 for some gun-ignorant friends. My son, then four, came in and did the natural big-round-eye deal. So, I let him handle it. I showed him how it functioned. I instructed him to cock it and press the trigger. It was a struggle. "Okay, it's too big for you, right?" "Yes, sir." (He said "Sir" in those days.) "Okay: When you think you're big enough to shoot it, we'll go shoot." And, "Just remember that this is a real gun; it's not a toy."

Never a problem. He'd look at it, but never did any grab-onto stuff. Later on, a year or so, I had him sit right in front of me as I helped him shoot very light loads from a Blackhawk. By that time he had his own Daisy Red Ryder and permission to shoot with me with any gun that he could handle.

You take the Big Deal out of guns, stay away from "mystique" and all that childishness, and kids do just fine. Let them set their own pace at what they shoot, as to type and size. Explain the safety rules in a friendly and simplified manner, and repeat as necessary. Just keep a casual but steady parental eye on them and it all works quite well. If a kid has permission, there's no "lure of the illicit", the forbidden. You want them to take it for granted as just part of life.

[JShirley]

I shot a .22/.410 at 4. By age 6, I owned a 20 gauge (H&R Topper Jr.). The two big mistakes I was exposed to growing up were shooting without ear protection, and being given a horribly kicking shotgun in 1st grade. (I was immensely relieved to find that the larger Remington and Mossberg 12 gauges we owned did not actually kick more than the shotgun I'd been using for over 10 years!)

I never, ever pointed a real firearm at anyone.

Art and Sam have some good advice. Start small, always follow all the safety rules, and have harsh consequences for all lapses. You start to face the wrong way at the shooting range with a weapon? Done. Maybe you can try again next year.

Unfortunately, I've seen some people who had more than 30 years shooting experience still handle weapons carelessly. Starting the right doctrine and training early is important.

John

[JohnKSa]

...shooting without ear protection...I would add that it's important to insure a good fit with the ear protection. You'll probably have to get muffs specifically made for juniors for them to fit right. Even if you use the foam plugs, you may want to get smaller sizes.

This place can help with hearing protection for small folks. I've used them in the past with good results. http://www.earplugstore.com/

Be sure to check the fit yourself by running your fingers around the edges of muffs to feel for gaps or air escaping when you compress them and/or by putting in the plugs yourself.

[bikerdoc]

The OP got a lot of good advice here.

I have a 5, and 6 yr old grand daughters. When they expressed an interest I started with the 4 rules. They dry handled a BB pistol and rifle. Then graduated to tin cans and ballons. The plan is to move up to a SSA with colibri eventually.

My daughters learned the same way, both approve. One has a masters in early childhood education, the other is an Asst Principal of an elementary school.

[Dave Markowitz]

My two daughters were exposed to guns pretty much from the get go. I wanted them to know what they were and to not touch them without me present. Along with that, I also impressed upon them that any time that they wanted to look at one of my guns all they had to do was ask, and I'd drop whatever else I was doing. This minimized the "forbidden fruit" attraction guns have for many kids.

Incidentally, we did the same with knives. My girls were taught to use table knives by age three, and last year each one of them got a Mora as their first knife.

My oldest, currently 9, has no interest in learning how to shoot :(, but I trust her to be around guns. My younger daughter, who will be 8 on Friday, started shooting a bow back in January, airsoft earlier this year, and a BB gun a couple weeks ago.

Before I allowed her to shoot the Red Ryder, she had to read, copy down, and explain the list of 10 safety rules included with Daisy's instructional booklet. (Link (http://daisy.com/tenrules.html).)

When done responsibly, exposing children to firearms early has a lot of benefits, including reducing hoplophobia and improving responsibility and self discipline. As long as the child is ready and will listen to directions, there's no good reason not to, IMHO.

[danez71]

I'm far from a "Chicken Little school marm". I expressed my opinion, just as you expressed yours. No matter what I do or say, I'll not change your position, nor will you change mine.

I'm just suggesting that the OP check with a few folks other than gun forum members. Folks who really know what young children are like. Kids do not think like adults. It's that simple.

(Last thing first, first thing last.)

That statement works both ways. Kids dont go to great effort to devise elaborate plans to commit mass murders as adults do.


I'm not trying to be snarky... Im trying to write it well and be friendly about it.

Its a shame and very concerning that someone thats been a school teacher and principal for almost 40 yrs is that closed minded as to not be able to have their opinion changed.

Are you that closed minded when a new teaching technique is developed that could benefit children? Do you just say 'you wont change my opinion' and then be unwilling to discuss it or give reasons why?

If everyone was like that, the world would still be flat, we'd still have slaves, and women still wouldnt be able to vote.



One of the things Ive taught my daughter is to be open minded to others' views. Ive taught her that by being open minded my self.


So,Ill ask specifically, why shouldnt a 6 yrs old be taught gun safety which will include handling a gun for demonstration?

[BullfrogKen]

A professional instructor would be nice, but it's not financially possible, plus she wants daddy to teach her.

You don't have to pay lots of money for help. You're in South Central Pennsylvania for Pete's sake!

I'd wager you live 15 minutes from at least one gun club, probably several. Back when I was on the Board of Directors at my local club I wanted to see what our competition was. I attempted to figured out how many clubs were within a 45 minute drive from ours.

I stopped counting at a dozen.


From your past, your lack of knowledge and experience, and your own anxiety in the matter I'm going to strongly encourage you to get connected with one of those clubs.

They're not as expensive to join as you think.
They'll be chock-a-block full of decent, helpful and friendly members who really do want to see both you and your family succeed in this journey.
They'll offer a safe, good range to go shooting.
Some of them offer great youth programs.

Palmyra Sportsmen's (http://www.palmyrasportsmens.com/index.asp) in particular has one of the best youth shooting programs in the nation.

My advice is to go start at one of these clubs. You might even see Sam or I at one of them.

If you need help finding one, you can give me a call. I know where most of them are, and a little bit (and sometimes a lot) about each one.


I'm not even going to address the nonsense about waiting until she's a teenager.

A few weekends ago I attended a Hi-Power Rifle match and shot alongside Sherri Gallagher. She holds world records, and wins nearly every match she shoots these days. I asked her how old she was when she got into shooting. She said she was 5.

http://cdn.ammoland.com/files/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Soldier-of-the-Year-Sherri-Gallagher-225x278.jpg

[Gaiudo]

If there's something I'd change about my early childhood exposure to firearms it would be the ear pro. If you can afford it, consider one of the less-expensive suppressors that are on the market to match with a .22 and then some of the .22 center fire rifles. This will completely remove the muzzle blast and aid in softening the recoil. For the kids, this could be a really life-changing investment.

[sixgunner455]

Nothing like having your tiny little kid sitting on your crossed legs, a target at 5 or 10 feet, a .22 pistol in your hands, and them wrapping their finger(s) around the trigger to make it go bang.

Neither of my kids has ever been a problem with guns. They listen. They've seen melons exploded. They know they can touch, so they ask when they want to, go shoot when they're interested, and are both completely safe with them. I can leave a pistol lying about (!!vapors!!) and know that it will be exactly where I left it, untouched. They'll mess with anything else they want to in the house, but they won't so much as touch a gun without permission.

Don't try that with a kid you've not exposed to shooting at an early age.

Mine are both teenagers now. They've been to Appleseed. They've shot doves. They've seen me wring a bird's neck. They know what life's about, what hard work accomplishes, etc. They get good grades, they keep their rooms kinda straight.

This is parenting. Shooting's just a part of it, for those of us who are shooters.

[hso]

I wouldn't allow a 6 year old to shoot without close adult supervision, but you should be able to apply the fundamentals with her and teach her to shoot only with you right at her elbow, literally, to ensure her safety.

Good advice is to approach each safety rule as a personal issue that she'll emotionally digest. Mom and sibs safety, friends and neighbors' safety, and even the safety of pets are personal to her and she can relate why each rule has to be followed when put in that context for her. The people and things she love are being kept safe by her following the rules.

While she may want daddy to teach her, as the adult you have to consider what's best for her. Work out a way for you to incorporate a better trained instructor into "daddy teaching". I would expect you have 4H shooting teams and teachers nearby as well as the clubs and ranges. Having her attend a 4H shooting event as a starter might be a great way for both of you to see the safety measures and training approaches that are focused on kids.

[taliv]

my daughter got her cricket rifle at age 5. she had to be able to repeat the 4 rules before she could shoot it. and i also put a sling on it and showed her the proper way to handle it, and she walked around the house for a few weeks getting comfortable with it before actually going to th range.

got her a nice volquartsen 10/22 at age 8.
a walther p22 and suppressor at age 10.
pink and purple lightweight AR15 at age 12.
she's 14 now.

my only advice is this: your daughter isn't interested in guns. she just wants to be doing what dad is doing. spend time with her doing SOMETHING.


edit: ok i lied; one more piece of advice: asking a "child development expert" about guns and a 6 yr old will likely only result in a prescription for ritalin, a visit from Child Protective Services, and considerable time wasted listening to culturally myopic blather.

[BullfrogKen]

This is parenting. Shooting's just a part of it, for those of us who are shooters.


Well said.

she just wants to be doing what dad is doing. spend time with her doing SOMETHING.

I think there's a lot of truth in that.

Look at some of the youth programs here at the local Central PA clubs. If you want that something with Dad to be shooting, the two of you can do it together. I see plenty of father - son/daughter pairs out on the range in weekend matches.

You don't have to be good to compete. You just have to enjoy it. If you do, you'll find as the two of you grow and get better in the sport, you'll grow and get closer to each other.

[7.62 Nato]

NSSF has a program at local clubs called First Shot to teach new shooters of all ages.

[tguil]

danez71, Yep, you did come across just as a bit "snarky"

I was a very open-minded educator and do listen to other folks' point-of-view, but having worked with people as long as I have, I know that folks don't change their opinions all that much,especially if that have a "passion" for what they believe. Indeed, most gun owners do have a "passion" for their guns and who should have them.

The OP was referring to his six-year-old daughter shooting a 9mm or .45 semi-auto. Yep, I'm pretty close-minded to that being OK. She simply is too young to handle a "real" center-fire semi-auto. Gun safety is something that should be taught to any child that lives where there are guns in the home (outside of the home too) Guns are a "fact-of-life" in our country and I'm fine with that. For a six-year-old, a bb gun under careful supervision...sure. Work from that to a .22 rifle. Work into handguns in the pre-teens...maybe. My daughter was shooting a single shot .22 rifle at about age ten...under my careful supervision.

This has been quite thread, hasn't it? Lots of "passion" seems to have come out and needless to say my opinion is in the minority. So be it.

[BullfrogKen]

I'm still going to push for the Palmyra Youth program.


http://www.palmyrasportsmens.com/youth.asp


Our program is individualized and is based on the NRA/Winchester Qualification Program
http://www.nrahq.org/education/training/marksmanship

We have club guns, pellets, glasses, everything they need - we just need a Kid and a smile


I'm not even a member there, and I'll still encourage him to go to Palmyra.

[danez71]

danez71, Yep, you did come across just as a bit "snarky"

I was a very open-minded educator and do listen to other folks' point-of-view, but having worked with people as long as I have, I know that folks don't change their opinions all that much,especially if that have a "passion" for what they believe. Indeed, most gun owners do have a "passion" for their guns and who should have them.

The OP was referring to his six-year-old daughter shooting a 9mm or .45 semi-auto. Yep, I'm pretty close-minded to that being OK. She simply is too young to handle a "real" center-fire semi-auto. Gun safety is something that should be taught to any child that lives where there are guns in the home (outside of the home too) Guns are a "fact-of-life" in our country and I'm fine with that. For a six-year-old, a bb gun under careful supervision...sure. Work from that to a .22 rifle. Work into handguns in the pre-teens...maybe. My daughter was shooting a single shot .22 rifle at about age ten...under my careful supervision.

This has been quite thread, hasn't it? Lots of "passion" seems to have come out and needless to say my opinion is in the minority. So be it.


I truely didnt mean it to be snarky. I have 3 relatives that are teachers and 1 more thats retired after 40+ yrs.

I sincerely didnt intend it to be and tried not to be.

When you word it the way you did just now, I tend to agree with you. I suspect a lot more people will to.

I had a BB gun at about 7 and a 22 bolt rifle at 8. I didnt get a 22 semi auto rifle until about 13 or 14.

[tguil]

We're good. Thanks

[Sam1911]

The OP was referring to his six-year-old daughter shooting a 9mm or .45 semi-auto. Yep, I'm pretty close-minded to that being OK. She simply is too young to handle a "real" center-fire semi-auto. However, this all hinges on your definition of "handle." I've described elsewhere my procedures for teaching my own children to shoot. At young ages, this is not asking or allowing them to truly "handle" either the power or the responsibility of the weapon. Merely allowing them to sit in my lap, have their hands on the gun under mine, and press the trigger themselves to experience the sensation of the shot. (And maybe even the joy of an accurate hit, if I can do my part right.) FWIW, my daughter was very interested in shooting when she was quite young, and her second experience with this was ripping through a full mag of .45ACP, as fast as she could pull the trigger, when she was THREE. Obviously, I was doing all the work, and had all the control, but she sure had a huge grin on her face!

That evolves very slowly as they mature until maybe by 6 or 8 they can fully support the weapon themselves and develop their own sight picture and break the shot on their own -- with my hands mere inches from theirs and me maintaining control of muzzle direction and all other gun-handling functions. .22s are great for this, as many of them are made smaller and fit little hands well. But there's no hard and fast rule that says all kids must stick with .22s. Just as with big people, noise and blast, and the jump of recoil, bother some and just entertain others.

Work into handguns in the pre-teens...maybe. Ironically, my kids were interested in "shooting" (at whatever level of participation) long before they had the stature to handle even a kids-sized rifle. The smaller size of handguns can make them an easier teaching platform that a longer, bulkier long gun.

[NG VI]

I don't believe anyone suggested that he give his daughter total unsupervised access to any weapon, but that appears to be what you're opposed to.

What does it matter what design of weapon she uses at (insert arbitrary age here)?

A bow can kill a human.

A centerfire rifle of any type can kill a human.

A rimfire rifle of any type can kill a human.

A centerfire pistol can kill a human.

A rimfire pistol can kill a human.

A shotgun can kill a human.

An air gun above a certain threshold can kill a human.

None of these objects require any more care than the others, they are all in the same class, that is, dangerous weapons. All of them need to be treated properly, all of them require adult supervision until the child has proven through years of getting it right that they can be trusted to shoot alone once in awhile, none of them do anything but send projectiles towards targets.

Whether it's a self-loader, revolver, or single shot gun, it makes absolutely no difference, they must all be treated with the exact same level of care and respect.

So why do you single out the guns the OP happens to own as being totally unsuitable for a kid to learn on? Yes a .22 rifle would be easier to start with on everybody, but he doesn't have to load his pistol with .45 Super, there are literally dozens of companies making low-power target loads for both of those calibers, and neither is all that difficult to begin with.

She'll do fine if he can drop his anxiety and treat her like a young person, someone who depends on him to teach her the right way to do things, and trusts her to get it right herself.

I know you think people cling to their preconceived notions, but you haven't made a single actual attempt to explain why you feel the way you do on the subject.

[BullfrogKen]

Sam, didn't your daughter come to my 1st Inaugural Flag Raising Ceremony at the O'Donnell Homestead last September and fire off her muzzle-loader with the rest of those assembled for the salute?


As I recall, she was more anxious over "standing there with the MEN" and looking bad than actually raising the smoke-pole to her shoulder and squeezing off a round in salute.

[Sam1911]

Heh, yeah, she fired the .58 flintlock. Next to John H, I think.

In 18th century period costume, no less.

She's a little unusual in some ways. Wish more kids were unusual like her (in some ways ;)).

[CAVHOOAH]

My boys both got their first rifles (.22) at the age of four. Before that they learned basic safety with a daisy. If they can retain safety with a daisy,....they are ready.

Just recently a 14 year old shot an intruder at his home as he hurried his siblings up a flight of stairs. He ran in his fathers room, and grapped a pistoll he knew was loaded...and dispatched the intruder with one shot. His accomplice (a woman, who initiallly knocked on the door) fled. Without that boy KNOWING what that firearm was for, and that it was ready to go, the situation would have been much worse I suspect. Its your duty, although yours are a little young for that scenerio, to tech your children to handle firearms safely AND effectively. To understand that these firearms are not only fun, but represent safety from wrongdoers if need be.

My boys are welcome to drag out any of my firearms and handle them if they feel inquisitive....as long as I am around to ensure proper clearing of said firearm. I clear it....then make them clear it again. No matter what, if they ask..... I allow them. Same with taking the out to the range (back 40). I NEVER turn them down....as it would only lead to them feeling the need to do these things when Im not around....wich is not what you want.

All but one of my firearms are secured in a safe...and they know where it is and what its for. Same as our old school gunnies with a rifle above the threshold of the home... its there for varmints of all sizes and wouldnt be effective locked up and unfamiliar to them.

[BullfrogKen]

Next to John H, I think.


Yep, John Holschen from Insights Training was right there on the line with her.



Everyone present counted there remembered that a Special Day. I very much appreciate her being there. Coming in period garb made it even more special to me, and everyone there who saw it.



I'm giving much thought to do it again this Semptember. For rememberance and all.

[Pointshoot]

"So, my daughter is saying she wants to shoot, "a real gun. Not a bb gun." I can follow her logic."

Your daughter is six. She doesnt have mature logic, that's up to you to have.

I've been around firearms since I was a kid. (Father was career US Army). As a kid we took an NRA course in marksmanship and gun safety. We shot .22 rifles for the course at an outdoor range. I would look around for such a course in your area. I doubt a 6 year old can take such a course. I would use the BB gun to teach her basic safety and marksmanship skills & let her know she needs to earn the right to shoot a firearm, maybe in a couple years. I think there are also BB gun based gun safety courses for younger kids. I wouldnt let a 6 year old shoot a handgun - - need to learn marksmanship fundamentals on a rifle first. (And thats with iron sights . . . not red dots or scopes.)

BTW - - there are also is some excellent BB gun based training for learning to shoot rifles and shotguns well. (Its been awhile since Ive done this - websearch what might be out there now). So maybe more of us adults need to get back to using BB guns for training to build up skills !

[ritepath]

Time to buy a single shot 22 rifle.

I just started teaching my kids (10yo girl and 7yo boy) on the pistol a few weeks ago. Both have shot rifles and shotguns for several years but I've waited to introduce them to the pistol.

[One_Jackal]

I would pass on the 22 for a few years. I would get a daisy bb gun and let her go at it. In a few months she might find shooting boring. My niece would shoot my 10/22 until I told her to stop. She is a good shot for her experience level. One day she came over and wasn't interested in shooting. Apparently her friends at school didn't think weapons were cool. She is 14 now. Instead of curiosity she acts like she is frightened of weapons, despite the fact she knows I have seen her fire 1000s of 22 rounds. I guess that is part of growing up for a little girl.

[jdub3]

This might be a helpful video series: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrorxilPMFo