Tell me what I need


PDA






chaddy
June 30, 2012, 08:10 AM
I want a 300 win mag that want rust up this winter for white tail deer?

If you enjoyed reading about "Tell me what I need" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Kachok
June 30, 2012, 08:31 AM
Savage 116, Browning Stainless Stalker, or if you can handle 300 mag in a featherweight rifle Tikka T3 Stainless.
BTW why exactly would you want a 300 mag for whitetail? 243s 25-06s and 270s put them down all across the country, with half the ammo cost, half the recoil and in lighter more compact rifles.

jmr40
June 30, 2012, 08:34 AM
A little more info might help. Any of the stainless rifles are a little easier to maintain. I prefer stainless, because it is a little easier to maintain, but I've got lots of blued guns that are 50+ years old that have been used a lot in bad weather and none have rusted up. They just require a little more attention and must be cleaned immediately after they are brought in after being wet. You may get some surface rust, but anything that builds up enough to cause a problem is neglect on the owners part.

For hunting in bad weather a quality synthetic stock is far more important than a stainless finish. Any problems that could occour with a blued finish will happen very gradually and you should have ample time to correct any issues before they cause the rifle to fail. A little surface rust or wear marks on blue are just character marks to remember your hunts with.

A wood stock however can fail with no warning. You can go from a stock that is 100% perfect to useless in a matter of seconds.


With no idea of your budget or uses my 1st 2 choices are either the Winchester Extreme Weather or Kimber Montana in 300 WSM. If those are out of your budget range my next choices would be the stanless Ruger or a Tikka.

Robert
June 30, 2012, 08:39 AM
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=665775
It's .270, not .300 but it might be worth a look.

303tom
June 30, 2012, 09:12 AM
Savage 116, Browning Stainless Stalker, or if you can handle 300 mag in a featherweight rifle Tikka T3 Stainless.
BTW why exactly would you want a 300 mag for whitetail? 243s 25-06s and 270s put them down all across the country, with half the ammo cost, half the recoil and in lighter more compact rifles.
I agree & I was wondering the same thing ...............

Art Eatman
June 30, 2012, 09:14 AM
For whitetail inside of 300 yards, a .300 maggie is a whole bunch more cartridge than is anywhere near necessary.

Another vote on the importance of the stock, since even "stainless" can rust.

LUCKYDAWG13
June 30, 2012, 09:26 AM
for a light and M/O accuracy i would look into a T/C Encore
i dont see the need for a 300 win mag a 308 or a good old
30/06 will do it all

Trent
June 30, 2012, 09:35 AM
I owned a featherweight 300 Win Mag (savage). I sold it because it was very unfriendly to shoot.

^^^ And I own a 50 BMG.

(I do like shooting my 300 Win Mag, but it's not a LIGHTWEIGHT 300 win mag...)

Way too much gun for whitetail, BTW. :)

Kachok
June 30, 2012, 09:39 AM
^ +1 300 mags blow up too much meat.

chaddy
June 30, 2012, 09:55 AM
I take a 30/06 how much money will a good gun and scope cost me.

303tom
June 30, 2012, 10:04 AM
I take a 30/06 how much money will a good gun and scope cost me.
.308 would probably be better for White-tail, you can get a nice one from Savage for around $400.00...............

Trent
June 30, 2012, 10:06 AM
^ +1 300 mags blow up too much meat.

There's a few places it's well suited, but mostly that's long range trophy hunting out west (rams, etc). Even then, there's rounds better suited for the task of >600 yard shots - 7mm mag, for starters.

It's a fun cartridge and great for long range shooting but way overkill if the purpose is to put meat on the table.

I have to agree with the guys above, plenty of better alternatives. 30/30, .243, .270, etc.

Trent
June 30, 2012, 10:09 AM
I take a 30/06 how much money will a good gun and scope cost me.

Define "good". There's some guns that are far more expensive than others. Same can be said of scopes. :)

There's quite a few good options that aren't going to break the bank. Savage w/ Accutrigger is a good start. There are a lot of great scopes can be found in the $150-300 range.

Just don't make the mistake of buying an expensive rifle and putting a cheap $50 piece of glass on it.

dprice3844444
June 30, 2012, 10:14 AM
http://www.gentrycustom.com/ if you wind up with a light ss/syn 300 win,concider a gentry brake to reduce recoil.ad a pachmeyer magnum decelerator recoil pad,also

chaddy
June 30, 2012, 12:11 PM
I want horns and meat. I don't want to spend 1000's $ but I don't want a high point of rifles either.

1858
June 30, 2012, 12:35 PM
Robert, that M70 is one heck of a deal. I'd buy that right now if I wanted a .270 Win. If it were chambered in .308 Win or 7mm-08 Rem it'd be a done deal. I'd sell the scope for $150 and put it towards another Zeiss Conquest.

chaddy, you can't go wrong with a Winchester M70 Extreme Weather SS and if you decide to buy one chambered in .300 WM they're not particularly light so the comments re the recoil may or may not apply. I don't find the recoil to be an issue with my M70 300 WM. Also, Winchester is offering a $50 rebate if you buy more than $50 of ammunition when you buy the rifle. You can find M70s for well below MSRP. Mine was $900 which is quite a bit less than $1,240 MSRP. Add in the $50 rebate (I didn't buy any ammunition) and you're at $850. Here's my M70 with a Zeiss Conquest.

http://thr.mcmxi.org/rifles/winchester/m70_extreme_weather_ss/photos/winchester_01.jpg

Arkansas Paul
June 30, 2012, 01:03 PM
^ +1 300 mags blow up too much meat.


I agree with most of what you post friend, but bullet selection and shot placement matter more than the round used. The biggest mess I've ever seen inside a whitetail was caused by a .223.

A controlled expansion bullet that doesn't contact bone generally won't damage much meat, no matter the round. Now there are always exceptions when the bullet doesn't do exactly what it is designed for.

I agree that .300 isn't necessary for whitetails, but the idea that when you shoot one with a magnum round, there isnt' anything to pack home but hide and hooves, is just not accurate. I've shot deer with a .280 Rem, and .30-06 and didn't place the shot just right. They hit shoulder bone and the off side shoulder was worthless. And that's not a magnum round.

Someone on here, I think it's Art always says, "Don't shoot em in the eatin parts." That's wise words. If they're hit behind the shoulder, not in it, there will be minimal if any meat destruction, it matters not whether the round is standard or magnum.

CountryUgly
June 30, 2012, 04:22 PM
Savage Axis in .270. We all know what the round is capable of, I've shot the Axis in 3 different calibers so far and all have been sub-moa out to 200 yards and as far as weather goes you could drag it it through the snow, mud and deer blood then wash it down with the hose pipe when you got home. Dry it off throw a lil oil on it and it'll look like new. The best part is you can buy them all day long in the $350 range with a scope. The glass that comes with them ain't bad. It's not a VX-3 but it ain't a Centre Point either. If you are just looking to fill the freezer and the gun may take a beating in the process an Axis is the ticket IMO.

meanmrmustard
June 30, 2012, 04:29 PM
.308 would probably be better for White-tail, you can get a nice one from Savage for around $400.00...............
+1. Was just at LGS, and the stainless Savage Precision is just a touch over five hundred, in 308 no less.

TonyAngel
June 30, 2012, 09:25 PM
I'll agree that you really don't need a 300WM for most game inside of 600 yards or so. .308, .270 or .30-06 will get the job done and without beating you up.

As for the stainless option, stainless is nice; but it doesn't mean that the gun won't rust. It only means that less surface maintenance will be required.

Whether blued or stainless, I duracoat my field rifles. That's the only way to be sure.

Art Eatman
June 30, 2012, 10:54 PM
Ya don't ruin meat if you don't shoot the eating part. :D The idea is to hit a specific place on a critter, not, "Somewhere in the brown..."

meanmrmustard
June 30, 2012, 10:59 PM
Ya don't ruin meat if you don't shoot the eating part. :D The idea is to hit a specific place on a critter, not, "Somewhere in the brown..."
Sometimes though, shock can rupture muscle fibers giving the coagulated patches near wound channels. Also, if a large bullet happens to fragment, but has enough weight and energy in said fragments after having hit the critter, this also can ruin meat or even send "shrapnel" into the gut. Ewwww!

Arkansas Paul
June 30, 2012, 11:17 PM
Also, if a large bullet happens to fragment, but has enough weight and energy in said fragments after having hit the critter, this also can ruin meat or even send "shrapnel" into the gut. Ewwww!

Which is why, if you are hunting thin skinned animals with a magnum round, you use controlled expansion bullets, not ones that fragment.

The thing is, both extremes of the magnum argument are invalid. Many think if they shoot a magnum, the deer always drop in their tracks. That isn't the case either. I remember my brother shot one with a .300 WSM and it ran about 50 yds before expiring. Hmm. That's about the same distance the one ran that I shot last year with a .243 Win. Sam distance, same shot placement.

That's not to say I have a problem with magnums, I don't. It's your money and your shoulder. Shoot what you want. I want a mag, simply because I don't have one. Don't really need it, but that's beside the point.

As far as the OP, if you take proper care of any rifle, you won't have rust issues. I don't have a single stainless firearm and I don't have a single problem with rust issues. Clean em properly and apply a thin coat of Barricade and you'll be golden.

chaddy
July 1, 2012, 12:08 AM
I would like to spend around 600$ and I dont want to be looking for blood I want the deer to fall no running

mdThanatos
July 1, 2012, 12:33 AM
The 600 is for a rifle and glass or just the rifle budget? I put together a Marlin XS7 and Burris 3200 10X for around $550 a couple of years ago. You actually could go with a Stevens 200 and have enough for a decent scope.

Arkansas Paul
July 1, 2012, 01:07 AM
I would like to spend around 600$ and I dont want to be looking for blood I want the deer to fall no running

Sorry to break the news, but it doesn't matter what caliber or what bullet you use, there is absolutely no way to guarantee that a deer will fall in it's tracks unless you hit spine or brain. And if you hit either of those, it doesn't matter if you're shooting a .458 Win Mag or a .223. Deer simply do not drop DRT every single time.

If you want drop them in their tracks performance, a high velocity bullet that expands rapidly is the way to go. But it still won't happen every single time.

fallout mike
July 1, 2012, 01:20 AM
Arkansas Paul, hate to burst your bubble, but DRT is done with a .45acp. Whatever you hit just gets blown off. Its true!! I read it on the internet. Even here a time or two!!

JEB
July 1, 2012, 01:51 AM
I dont want to be looking for blood I want the deer to fall no running

bad news for ya.....that just dont happen.

i have seen deer run for 75 yards with their heart compleatly blown to hell. i have seen VERY[I] few that were DRT shots. the ONLY way you can ensure an instant kill with no running is to get real close, and blast them in the back of the head where the bottom of the skull meets the spine. good luck!

honestly, tracking is no big deal. make a good shot (and i stress a [I]good shot) and they will not run far.

fallout mike
July 1, 2012, 01:57 AM
Seriously, all my deer kills have either been with a .243, 30-06, or a .270. Most of my. 270 kills have been DRT. A few hasn't, and the other two calibers hasn't. Like others have stated some that ran off had their heart and lungs blown to bits. A bigger caliber would have made no difference.

meanmrmustard
July 1, 2012, 02:03 AM
I've had DRT .223 kills! I think it varies from shot to shot, and how the deer is going to react to the damage done. I have noticed heart shot deer run like a fire was lit under em. Lung shot deer ran less, and liver shot (too high) ran far, left little blood, and had to be tracked for hours. But then I've jumped them, shot at the base of the neck where it meets the shoulder and rolled them with no death throes. Best cartridge I've experienced for the DRT was a .260.

Kachok
July 1, 2012, 02:28 AM
I've had DRT .223 kills! I think it varies from shot to shot, and how the deer is going to react to the damage done. I have noticed heart shot deer run like a fire was lit under em. Lung shot deer ran less, and liver shot (too high) ran far, left little blood, and had to be tracked for hours. But then I've jumped them, shot at the base of the neck where it meets the shoulder and rolled them with no death throes. Best cartridge I've experienced for the DRT was a .260.
Agreed, my 6.5x55 (the 260s ballistic twin) seems to drop them on the spot as well as anything.

R.W.Dale
July 1, 2012, 03:26 AM
IMO ever hunter needs at least one any weather, any terrain, any critter, no such thing as overkill go to rifle.

For this role I prefer 30 caliber and stainless steel. My personal favorite is the boat paddle stocked ruger m77 mkII pictured below chambered for 30/06. Any critter within the range I have buisness shooting is in great danger of becoming dinner when I have this rifle in my hands.


http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/krochus/FIRE/swing9311074.jpg

chaddy
July 1, 2012, 06:39 AM
I would like to spend 600 for everything is this possible. I know a deer is going to run a littl ways but I don't want to waste a good sport or animal cause I shot it with a weak gun. Thanks for all the replys some good help here.

meanmrmustard
July 1, 2012, 07:53 AM
I would like to spend 600 for everything is this possible. I know a deer is going to run a littl ways but I don't want to waste a good sport or animal cause I shot it with a weak gun. Thanks for all the replys some good help here.
Sure is. You could get a brand new Weatherby Vanguard and a Redfield for at or very near that price. If you go used, you now open up more possibilities?

Trent
July 1, 2012, 07:53 AM
You hit a deer in the right place with any one of the calibers mentioned in this thread, it's going down. None of them are "weak" (well, maybe the 223.. lol).

If you're wanting to spend $600 or less for everything then ammo cost is going to be a consideration. You need to buy enough ammo to get the rifle and glass sighted in, and get proficient at it at different ranges (as not all hunting happens at exactly 100 yards).

With a budget in mind, you should seriously consider a common round as they're less costly. 300 Win Mag will break the bank if you don't roll your own (reloading).

So why not go for 30-06 or 308? Plenty of (comparably) cheap practice ammo, available anywhere, and TONS of bullet selections available (different types of projectiles).

meanmrmustard
July 1, 2012, 07:59 AM
You hit a deer in the right place with any one of the calibers mentioned in this thread, it's going down. None of them are "weak" (well, maybe the 223.. lol).

If you're wanting to spend $600 or less for everything then ammo cost is going to be a consideration. You need to buy enough ammo to get the rifle and glass sighted in, and get proficient at it at different ranges (as not all hunting happens at exactly 100 yards).

With a budget in mind, you should seriously consider a common round as they're less costly. 300 Win Mag will break the bank if you don't roll your own (reloading).

So why not go for 30-06 or 308? Plenty of (comparably) cheap practice ammo, available anywhere, and TONS of bullet selections available (different types of projectiles).
Bullet placement trumps size and speed. Knowing the effective range, accuracy, and bullet characteristics while in flight AND on impact make the .223 Rem anything but weak on whitetails. I cut my teeth on the lil round, so have my sisters, my fiancÚ even. It works, conditionally of course, but doesn't kill them less dead.

But, to up my range AND keep with my AR hunting platform, I'm wanting to go 6.8 SPC.
Lil more thump farther out cant hurt, right?

chaddy
July 1, 2012, 08:23 AM
Can I get a weatherby in 308?

Kachok
July 1, 2012, 08:38 AM
Can I get a weatherby in 308?
Absolutely, great guns and I for one will never argue against the 308 caliber. The first version is selling cheap now that the S2 is on the market.

RangerHAAF
July 1, 2012, 08:40 AM
U can probably find a Ruger M77 in 308 or maybe a 30'06 for the price u listed.

fallout mike
July 1, 2012, 09:04 AM
He's not going to find a m77 and scope for $600.

RangerHAAF
July 1, 2012, 09:41 AM
You're right, the scope is extra.

chaddy
July 1, 2012, 10:07 AM
Who makes a good scope and how much will a good scope cost.

RangerHAAF
July 1, 2012, 10:22 AM
The low end BSA scopes are priced between about $30 to $120 dollars. NcStar scopes go for between about $60 to $150 dollars. I have one topping my Rock River AR-10; 3x9 power "sniper reticle", very clear and sharp lens.

U can pay as little or as much as u want to. I haven't made it to the income level yet where I can lay down $1500 dollars for a Zeiss piece of glass.

Arkansas Paul
July 1, 2012, 11:08 AM
With a budget, like most of us have to consider, I think the Bushnell Banner scopes at about $89 or so are a good bargain. A Weatherby Vanguard and that scope will run you right at $500 and you'll have enough left to buy a few different brands of ammo to compare.

taraquian
July 1, 2012, 11:54 AM
You can get a Ruger American Rifle in .308 with a Redfield scope for about $600 at GanderMtn. Blued barrel and synthetic stock. Thats what I just decided on and I had similer requirements.

MachIVshooter
July 1, 2012, 12:23 PM
Who makes a good scope and how much will a good scope cost.

Personally, I consider the Nikon Prostaff to be the minimum for a game rifle. They run about $150.

You can certainly find a rifle and scope in your price range, but I think you'd do well to look at used stuff. You'll definitely get more for your money.

My deer/pronghorn rifle is a Remington 700 BDL in .25-06 with a Leupold VX-III 4.5-14x 40mm, I use 117 gr. Sierra Gamekings loaded to 3,200 FPS. No animal I've shot with it has gone more than 30 feet, most have dropped where they stood. IMO, there is not a better deer cartridge than the .25-06. It's easy on the shoulder, very flat-shooting and plenty powerful enough to put bullets through the animal at any range you can hit him.

chaddy
July 1, 2012, 01:41 PM
Thanks y'all for the replys. As you can tell I don't know much about guns. Is a 7mm a good round for deer?

R.W.Dale
July 1, 2012, 01:47 PM
Who makes a good scope and how much will a good scope cost.

Anything NOT made in China prices will start around $100

The Nikon pro staff is good but ime the sightron s1 is better and last I looked is about $30 cheaper

If anything you'll want to cheap out on the rifle if you have to in order to buy a better scope. Trust me!


7mm08 is probably the best balanced deer cartridge mankind has yet devised although ammunition is somewhat expensive.

7mm magnum is if anything more overkill than 300 win mag.


I'm somewhat concerned where this is headed. I must ask just how much ammunition do YOU think you'll need to shoot a year to maintain basic proficiency?

Since you already stated cost concerns I'm going to be blunt and tell you to forget anything with "magnum" in the name. You really only need to be looking at four cartridges 243, 270, 308 and 30/06 these are by far the most common rounds and are far far cheaper than anything else.


BTW Kudos to THR for NOT suggesting a mosin nagant yet. This must be some sort of record.

SimplyChad
July 1, 2012, 02:27 PM
On this website in the trading post you could build you a great N american rifle for 485 + 175. A 30-06 with a fixed 10 power scope. Got any trade fodder? Talk to mike sr.

R.W.Dale
July 1, 2012, 02:29 PM
A fixed 10x is way too powerful for hunting. You'd always be searching for your target in the very narrow fov

Even though. 3x9 Scopes are the most popular hunting scope it usually doesn't take long for hunters to learn to leave it on 3x for snap shooting and only dial up after putting glass on the target

SimplyChad
July 1, 2012, 02:33 PM
Heck this would put meat on the table.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=294291195


Just saying.

Texaszach
July 1, 2012, 03:08 PM
I'm a big fan of the weatherby vanguard as well.
Sub 400 now for the first version.

I own one in 243 and love it, especially considering the price.
It is a very nice rifle.

Ill agree the 243,270, 308 and 30-06 are your best bets.

Arkansas Paul
July 1, 2012, 11:11 PM
How about a Mosi...........

BTW Kudos to THR for NOT suggesting a mosin nagant yet. This must be some sort of record.

Oh, darn. Sorry.

If you enjoyed reading about "Tell me what I need" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!