[1894]

Normally, I'd spend a couple hours using the search function. But I just don't have the time. I've had my eyes on a 70 series colt repro for a while now. But recent events have put that idea on hold. I may have a chance to pick up a (nickle plated unfortunately)RIA, however. I read in a recent thread that there is some difference in the Not a half cock notch between the RIA and JMB's design. Can someone please explain this - and what it means - in layman's terms? Any other differences?

Also, would you trust your life to a RIA 1911? Yes, I know a $3k Wilson is better. That's not an option for me. I'd rather this not turn into a, "Get a Colt/Springer/etc." kind of thread. It'd be a trade for my SP101. Just looking for a couple more rounds and a single action trigger for my nightstand / car gun.

Real world opinions only please. If you've never owned / shot one, I don't really care that you think they're trash. Unless, of course, you're also willing to trade your Valor for my SP101;)

Thanks in advance guys & gals!

[geo57]

I can't help you on the notch thing, but yes, I'd trust my life to my 5" Govt. parkerized .45 RIA. It's bone stock and goes bang every time now. When brand new it did have a bobble or 3 in the 1st 100 rounds or so, ( there's a good chance that one or more could have been my fault, mag related or my reloads which have been slightly tweaked since) but has worked perfectly for the last several hundred. Mine has only seen my 230 gr. hardball reloads @ 800 FPS so I can't say if it would or wouldn't feed hollowpoints reliably, but it works great with what it gets fed and while this combo wouldn't be my 1st choice given the option, I wouldn't feel undergunned with them in a tight spot. Good luck in what ever you decide.

[Fishslayer]

My wife says our Tactical model full size is the "best" gun I own. Dunno about that but I like it a lot.

It is box stock and 100% reliable with ball, maybe 99+% with SWC and has an occasional hiccup with JHP.

I would trust it. If I was going to carry it everyday I might send it out for a polish & tweak.

[HKGuns]

Mine has been 100%. Bone stock GI model.

http://hkguns.zenfolio.com/img/s3/v25/p257666243-5.jpg

[Stringfellow]

I owned an RIA Tactical, but sold it to buy a Colt--more for fit n' finish and pride of ownership than performance. I don't remember feeling any difference in half cock notch design. Nor have I ever heard anything mentioned about it--so I really think it is a non-issue.

The downside for RIA is that it is nowhere near the fit n' finish of higher priced pistols--or even of equally priced competition such as ATI or Metro Arms. But what RIA pistols do well, is shoot. Mine was reliable, and RIA is backed by some of the best customer service in the industry. I like the looks of their satin nickel finish, not so much the polished one, but for the right deal I could get over it. Note that their plating process uses a copper base, so NEVER use Hoppe's or a gun powder solvent on it or the nickel finish will be ruined (i.e., remove the barrel before cleaning it with solvent).

So if you got a good deal, you will get a pistol that is every bit as fine of a shooter as anything within a thousand dollars of its price. Above that, and you are getting into another league of performance, but I think you know that.

Good luck, and let us know how you make out!

[1894]

Thanks for the votes of confidence in RIA. If he wants the trade, I'll go for it.

Also, the owner's manual I downloaded from Bud's for the RIA states:

HALF-COCKED POSITION - the half-cocked notch in the
hammer allows it to be locked in a half-cocked position. This
happens in situations of unintentional hammer release or
follow through caused by sear bounce.

Good enough for me. Thanks again!

[rondog]

You don't want no RIA. This is the best I could do with mine the other day

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b150/rinselman/guns/targets%20and%20stands/DSC_0033-2.jpg

Just kidding, of course! I have four of them, some guys have upwards of forty of them. Great guns for the price.

[klash545]

I bought one for $299 when they first came out,never had one problem out of the box. RIAs are good guns buy with confidence

[1894]

rondog, maybe I should think again. I noticed your flyer in the upper left...:neener:

[rondog]

rondog, maybe I should think again. I noticed your flyer in the upper left...

What can I say, it was windy that day.....

[Skylerbone]

I'm not a huge fan of the 101 but I'd still say your proposed trade is a reasonably even one. I've shot the Citadel, (same manufacturer) found it to be a worthwhile, accurate pistol. That particular specimen belonged to a friend and I fired a variety of LSWC, LRNFP, XTP and Nosler hollow points. Used factory ACT magazines, Wilson 47Ds and CM Power Mags with zero issues through ~400 rounds.

L to R SW1911, SA TRP, Citadel.
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=153839&d=1322786958

[bigfatdave]

Armscor makes good stuff and supports it superbly, and they operate quite transparently (check out the Armscor facebook page)

Buy with confidence, test rigorously to reveal any potential issues and give yourself peace of mind, and put one in service.

[surjimmy]

I own several hi-end customs(Yost, Swenson, Baer) and others. Please understand I'm not bragging, just want you to know where my opinion is coming from. The Rock Island Tactical is an Outstanding weapon. It sticks in my throat to say this sub $500 gun will do everything my several 1000 dollar guns will do so I won't.lol I would have no trouble at all having a RI as a carry piece.

[Diver9543]

This is my RIA Tactical. No FTF or FTE from what I have put through it. Very smooth and fun to shoot. No comment on the half cock, sorry.

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n501/gecrice/Weapons/1911withHogueGrips.jpg

[bigfatdave]

RE: half-cock notch differences, if we keep this thread bumped long enough, 1911tuner will wander through and educate us all, most likely.

[Greg528iT]

http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/x349/jaggoett1/1911/1911hammers.jpg

The picture shows the differences in the half cock notch / shelf. The original design captured the sear. The only way the sear can be released is by thumbing the hammer back a slight bit. The other sear, the hammer can drop by pulling the trigger.

As long as you do not rely on the half cock as a safety as some do you will be fine. Most people do not.

[1894]

I would love it if 1911Tuner happened across this thread. (maybe if we mention him enough?)

As I understand (& I'm prolly wrong) The half cock was designed to catch the hammer during an unintentional release of ... something. More of a secondary safety than one to be used intentionally.

Most importantly, I don't even have the gun yet, but I already have the primary safety for it. It's between my ears. Just trying to fully understand the mechanics, though I doubt I ever will no matter how much I try, so I know that it's functioning correctly.

Thanks Greg. The pics make it easier to understand.

[1894]

surjimmy:

You make some bold claims. I think I should be there to verify. I'll bring the ammo, let's shoot 'em all. In, of course, the interest of scientific evaluation... cough...

[kyletx1911]

Yes i trust all my rocks. A used gi my first, 5k rds no problems,
2 fs tacs about 800 in each, just got a citadel, bad recoil spng called armscorp new one in route,
All but the citadel in edc rotation. I want a colt in ss
And a brown baer wc etc but money dictates.
But for the money rocks get my vote

[harmon rabb]

RIA's may not be the prettiest 1911's out there, and may not have the best fit and finish. But they shoot well, and are reliable. Would absolutely trust one for carry or self defense. In fact, other than look pretty, it's a little hard to see what the more expensive 1911's do that a RIA can't.

[MrDig]

http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/x349/jaggoett1/1911/1911hammers.jpg

The picture shows the differences in the half cock notch / shelf. The original design captured the sear. The only way the sear can be released is by thumbing the hammer back a slight bit. The other sear, the hammer can drop by pulling the trigger.

As long as you do not rely on the half cock as a safety as some do you will be fine. Most people do not.

On the left is a series 70 or before, on the right is a series 80 or after if I am not mistaken. I may have misunderstood in the armorers course I just finished.

[coalman]

The Filipino imports are the best 1911 value going right now IMO. at $425-$475 it's a great 1911 for the price you pay... for now. ATI is my vote as fit and finish is superior.

[surjimmy]

1894, I think we need to invite some other guys with scientific minds as well, and have them bring all their guns so we can shoot and evaluate them. All in the name of Science of course.LOL

[1894]

surjimmy: science is going to get expensive.:evil:

Stringfellow: You don't happen to have a link handy where one might learn more about their plating process and what it means to the average joe do you? So far, everything I've had has been stainless or blued. Specifically, I'm interested in what to use to clean and what not to. And, what happens if I do something stupid. Not like that's ever happened of course.

[Furncliff]

My RIA 1911 tactical has been reliable with store bought ammo. I've had it about 5 years and it's the test bed for my hand loads which don't chamber or eject from time to time. That's probably more my fault and well used cases. I switched to Chip Mac Cormack magazines, and I put a nice Pachmyer grip on it, it's stock otherwise. I remember being surprised at how nice the trigger was when I first got it. It's accurate. And all this makes it hard for me to justify the $1000 Gold Cup I covet.

[Furncliff]

Nickel plating stands up to use very well. Many LEO's carried nickel plated handguns until stainless came along.

Ammonia is the enemy of nickel plate if there is flaking or damage that allows the ammonia to get at the copper plate that is put on under nickel plate.. Some bore cleaners use ammonia.

[Skylerbone]

A true captive half-cock position IS a safety as described by Browning himself. Intended to catch the sear nose due to an inadvertent hammer drop as when thumb-cocking. What comes standard today, as illustrated is a shelf at ~90 degrees located to engage much closer to the uncocked position (closer to the firing pin).

Engaging this quarter-cock shelf will allow the hammer to fall with a trigger press, the theory being there is insufficient inertia from that position transferred to the firing pin to ignite a primer. I have read and believe otherwise.

The captive version of course does as its name implies, captures the sear nose with its positive angle hook design such that the sear cannot escape without further cocking of the hammer and rotation of the sear by trigger press.

Most 1911s sold today utilizes the quarter-cock shelf and most aftermarket replacement hammers do as well.

[Skylerbone]

On the finish, a bit from another forum member: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=665210&highlight=RIA+Tactical

[1894]

Skylerbone: Thank you for the information. I think I almost understand. I'll ponder it for a while before I post any more questions. Btw, this is not the first time I've benefitted from your knowledge.

[Skylerbone]

Hope it made some sense, much of what I know has come from being wrong, staring at parts and reading. Anyone whose had a manual winch on a boat trailer will get the relationship between hammer and sear. Flip that little clicker in place and it jams between the teeth.

If you printed out the diagram of the two and used a compass to draw the arc made by the sear when it rotates it's much easier to see. Chuck Warner has a close-up diagram with the arc showing, I'll look for a link to add.

http://www.warnerpistols.com/_____NEW_____.html. Toward the bottom of the page labeled P1, shows the full-cock engagement and radius on a captive hammer. If you were to draw that arc through the half-cock position you would immediately run into a protrusion, preventing the sear from moving. The new system would look like the full-cock engagement where the sear is free to disengage when the trigger is pressed.

[bigfatdave]

Not that I see it as a major concern, but have we determined which style hammer is in RIA guns? I don't remember from the detail strips I've done on mine, and don't have a need/desire to pull a full teardown on any of my Armscor-made guns at the moment (maybe in a few weeks, the TCM I ordered will have a few hundred rounds down the pipe and be ready for a full teardown with the hammer out for viewing)

[MrDig]

Series 80 and newer have the firing pin safety as well, therefore if your RIA has a firing pin safety it has the newer style hammer. No Safety in the firing pin mechanism = series 70 or the old style hammer.

[Greg528iT]

The Wilson Combat hammers I have bought (3) all have had a capturing device on the half cock. The premium hammers have the hook in the middle, such as to, only impact the sear in the middle away from the hammer hook contact areas of the sear. If you are fully machining a hammer, it would be a bit cheaper to just machine the shelf. If you are going to MIM the hammer, there would be littlecost savings. I dont want to start a MIM vs debate, but Iassume a RIA would have a MIM hammer. It will be perfectly safe. Who has an RIA they want to take apart and take a picture?

[Skylerbone]

My memory may be foggy but I believe it has the shelf. Anyone with a Rock handy can unload it, chamber check it, pull the trigger then cock the hammer to the "half-cock" position. If newer style, it will click almost immediately and will drop with a pull of the trigger (and squeeze of the grip safety).

[1894]

Well, it's not gonna happen. Friend of a friend who wanted to sell his - not trade it. Though, I may put mine up here just to see what happens - gonna think about it a bit. Still, an interesting discussion none the less. Thanks again everyone!

[silicosys4]

My RIA is noticeably inferior to my 3 other 1911's; series 70 combat commander, 1991a1, sig sauer nitron rail. The RIA shoots 2' low at 15 yds, and groups poorly. The GI sights are too small to be filed to correct. Frame/Slide tolerances are the loosest of my 1911, and it won't reliably feed cast handloads that my other 3 1911's will. That said, for $300, it allowed me to "test the waters" of 1911 ownership, and I'm sure when I sell it I won't lose money.
For the $400-$450 that the RIA's are going for new, I'd just get a taurus 1911, or save up a few hundred more and get a sig sauer nitron rail for $650 or so NIB, or look for a gently used colt 1991A1.

[silicosys4]

My RIA is noticeably inferior to my 3 other 1911's; series 70 combat commander, 1991a1, sig sauer nitron rail. The RIA shoots 2' low at 15 yds, and groups poorly. The GI sights are too small to be filed to correct. Frame/Slide tolerances are the loosest of my 1911, and it won't reliably feed cast handloads that my other 3 1911's will. That said, for $300, it allowed me to "test the waters" of 1911 ownership, and I'm sure when I sell it I won't lose money.
For the $400-$450 that the RIA's are going for new, I'd just get a taurus 1911, or save up a few hundred more and get a sig sauer nitron rail for $650 or so NIB, or look for a gently used colt 1991A1.

[rWt]

Not to interfere with the RIA discussion-but, is a Norinco a good/better/worse alternative? It's in the same price range of the RIA and I have heard some good things about them. There are some comments here. http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=666852

[bigfatdave]

where are you getting new, warrantied norincos?

[fallout mike]

I have a RIA in 9mm. It is very accurate and Ive had 0 issues. You will not be disappointed of you go with one of these.

[Roadking Rider]

Rock Island tough.
http://filmyboxoffice.com/video/FshMCKkfsW4.html