Does anyone carry "cross draw"?


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DocRx
July 3, 2012, 01:23 PM
Because of an injury, I have limited movement of my shoulder. I usually carry at 3:30, right side in either a OWB or IWB, and sometimes it gets somewhat painful to reach "backwards" to draw my gun. I was wondering, and testing on my own, the possibility of carrying "cross draw". Do we have any "veterans" of carrying in that manner here? What are the pros and cons? Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

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460Kodiak
July 3, 2012, 01:29 PM
I carry at 9:00 fairly often when a chunk of steel digging into 4:00 gets to be too much. I still carry IWB. It works fine for me as an alternate and I find that with the right jacket or coat I print less than I do at 4:00. It makes riding in a car more comfortable also.

In summer I pocket carry a 642. I don't like IWB when I'm wearing light clothing. I'm pretty lean though so IWB is never truely comfortable to me.

Skribs
July 3, 2012, 01:30 PM
The con is that you're drawing sideways instead of up. This means you have a 2 foot target to stop at instead of a 5-6 foot target.

However, if your injury makes it easier to draw cross draw, that would probably be the better option for you.

wasr10634unme
July 3, 2012, 01:57 PM
search aiwb :appendix in the waistband

holster recommendations :raven concealment, crossbreed quickclip, archangel

Sam1911
July 3, 2012, 02:04 PM
As Skribs said, if this is the only way that you can carry, then it is the best way for you.

Some of the "cons" can otherwise be:
1) Cross-draw is measurably slower than a strong-side holster. I know a lot of people will say, "not for me!!!" but without the numbers recorded off a shot timer, that's not credible. You must reach farther and must turn the gun and present it in a motion that sweeps around to get on target, meaning you cannot use the "4-count" draw stroke and cannot fire until your draw is complete.

2) Further, the end of your draw is in stopping a horizontal sweep to land on your target, instead of punching the gun straight out at your target, making your first shot accuracy tend to suffer. (Think that isn't so? Set up the targets and the timer and prove it to yourself!)

3) The cross-draw draw stroke is easily blocked/fouled. If you are in a situation where you're truly fighting for/with the gun, an attacker who grapples with you can with some ease bind your strong-side arm, or get his body in the way so you can't snake your hand across to the opposite side to grasp your gun. There are some techniques to minimize that problem, but you'll have to practice keeping your body clear enough to get your firing hand over there. Conversely, the strong-side draw-stroke is very hard to foul or block.

3a) While someone who grapples with you can block you from grasping your gun, your gun is oriented in a way that makes it most easily grabbed by someone facing you.

4) Most ranges, and all competitions, prohibit the use of holsters that orient the muzzle up-range when holstering or drawing (so no cross-draw, shoulder rigs, or SOBs). That can make it difficult to get the critical practice time in with your carry equipment.

Old Fuff
July 3, 2012, 06:25 PM
I sometimes use a cross-draw technique developed by Ed McGivern (See his book, Fast and Fancy Revolver Shooting, available in reprint from www.amazon.com) and it ain't slow with short barreled guns. The handgun is placed just to the left of the belt buckle at about 10:30 to 11:00.

The shooter shifts his feet so they are standing side ways to the target. At this point you twist at the hips counter-clockwise as the hand grips the butt, and that movement will almost pull the gun clear of the holster. Tip the muzzle up at waist level and shoot, or twist again at the hips going clockwise to face more toward the target while lifting the gun to sholder level and taking a two-handed grip.

If you can't do otherwise, practice the draw at home with an unloaded gun. The addition of an laser sight will offer a substantial advantage a training aid, as well for the intended purpose.

Lonestar49
July 3, 2012, 07:47 PM
...

Old Fuff has it right..

It's how I carry my 3" SA EMP 9mm 1911

Very comfy,


Ls

jeepnik
July 3, 2012, 07:49 PM
I carry OWB cross draw most of the time and have for a couple of decades. I found that it's nice to have easy access to my handgun with either hand. My favorite rig is one that is a high ride cross. It conceals well, as it is designed to lay close to the body. It does require a very good belt.

On the plus side, it's easy to "protect" your handgun with your arm when in crowds, and no one seems to notice.

jeepnik
July 3, 2012, 09:35 PM
I think Old Fluff responded well to Sam1911. But, I'll add that if done properly, you won't sweep anything but the ground and your target, just as with a strong side draw. And, again if done properly, it isn't any easier to foul a cross as opposed to a strong side draw.

One last point. It can be rather difficult to reach a handgun worn in a high riding strong side at anywhere between three and 5 o'clock with your off hand, especially if you are tangled up with someone. The cross can be easily protected during such times, yet it can be reached with either hand should the chance arise.

Oh, and as to the timer thing, I've done it. Now compared to some speedy folks, I'm slow as molasses, but for me, it's no slower (I won't say it's faster, just to appease you) than a strong side draw.

Now the nice thing here is this, I like cross, you like strong. And, we are both happy with our decisions. Ain't life great, all these choices and we get to make them for ourselves.

Eb1
July 3, 2012, 09:41 PM
cross draw @ 1:20:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMFM8SeW51E

T Bran
July 3, 2012, 10:03 PM
I really dont have much of a choice with both of my single actions because of barrel legnth. It is either crossdraw or a Hans Solo rig that ties at the knee other wise you cant even clear leather.
The crossdraw ia fine in the woods and very comfortable when walking or sitting.
It really depends on the situation you are carrying in. For concealed carry with a shorter weapon if cross is your only option it is still far better than going unarmed and at least your gun wont get mangled by the seatbelt clasp.

smalls
July 3, 2012, 10:19 PM
I've tried it IWB with a snubby, and found it extremely uncomfortable, and I couldn't sit down. I wouldn't mind trying it OWB, though, as I could probably get it a little further back, without my hip bone getting in the way.

Gadget
July 3, 2012, 11:01 PM
I've carried cross-draw for about 30 years now. I find it convenient for me and easier to get to while strapped in a car. I prefer a high-ride (think semi-shoulder rig) height. If it works for the OP, then practice a straight draw with a drop of the off-side foot instead of stepping into your stance. For me this method eliminates the time lag of acquiring stance while bringing firearm to strong side for presentation.

checkmyswag
July 4, 2012, 12:13 AM
It is very convenient while driving, but that's about it.

Swing
July 4, 2012, 12:25 AM
Yes, depending on the clothing worn.

MCgunner
July 4, 2012, 12:29 AM
I guess you could call my fanny pack a cross draw, wear it at about 11 oclock right hand draw. I find it about the only way I can belt carry a K frame sized revolver or full sized auto, concealed in plain sight, no worries about flashing the gun. Otherwise I pocket carry.

I really like the fanny pack if seated in the car, very easy to access. Crossdraw would have similar qualities if in a proper holster, not IWB, but OWB and canted.

Snag
July 4, 2012, 12:43 AM
If it's IWB I like it just to the left of my belt buckle. For me it's more comfortable than on my right side digging in to my hip bone or my lower back. OWB though I much prefer it over on my right side.

Drail
July 4, 2012, 02:23 AM
The difference in speed using a cross draw rig is actually very small. In the early days of USPSA/IPSC shooting cross draw rigs were very popular with a lot of the top competitors. It eventually lost favor because of range safety concerns more than because the strong side guys were faster. I have competed using both types and I don't think you'll give up enough speed to make much difference. I also carried cross draw for about 10 years when I had a job that required many hours behind the wheel. Cross draw allows you faster and easier access to your gun than strong side when sitting down in most modern vehicles and trucks. It also doesn't have the problem of seat belts and consoles getting in the way of your draw.

jem375
July 4, 2012, 10:23 AM
I have been carrying cross draw for years with holsters specifically canted for that. It is just as fast if not faster than strong side carry in my opinion, I carry both ways, but in a vehicle it is much easier to grab.

JTQ
July 4, 2012, 10:51 AM
This article may be of some help.

The Case for Crossdraw
http://www.gunweek.com/2005/feature0101.html

wlewisiii
July 4, 2012, 11:04 AM
I carry my Blackhawk 4 5/8" cross draw. I find it much easier and fast to draw, cock & aim a single action that way. I also prefer a shoulder rig for smaller automatics.

gym
July 4, 2012, 12:13 PM
I carried my snubbys that way, with a grip change to rubber or larger wooden grips. It worke well with a sports jacket on. And I fired with one hand as Fluff said. Most always my first shot would be one handed.

EVIL
July 4, 2012, 12:34 PM
While 99% of the time I carry defensively concealed strong side IWB, I do carry cross draw on several occaisions:

1. When I carry a Back up gun - cross draw is much better for me than a shoulder holster (which I find really slow).

2. When I carry 2 separate pistols for 2 separate tasks. A small game "hunting pistol" (most often a Ruger MK II target) is carried cross draw while my "defensive pistol" is carried strong side.

Though I don't hunt big game with a pistol (yet...;)), this set up would also work for a hunter carrying a large bore SA revolver or scoped hunting pistol cross draw, while still having a defensive pistol strong
side.

When I am at an outdoor state land area where I shoot that has no tables and I want to shoot 2 pistols alternately without setting one down in the dusty ground. - 2 holsters come in handy here.

3. easier access to the pistol in a long car drive situation

4. With a pack belt on hiking or in a concealment fanny pack while cycling. The fanny pack is the slowest & most complex draw (for me) & requires 2 hands so their is no opportunity for a "stiff arm" defense while drawing.

Skribs
July 4, 2012, 12:55 PM
Very good points, evil. I had a little bit different philosophy than you, for various reasons.

1. When I carry a Back up gun - cross draw is much better for me than a shoulder holster (which I find really slow).

I actually carry my back up weak-side, because one of the reasons I may need my BUG is if my strong hand fails or is busy and I need to draw with my weak side hand. So main gun IWB/OWB strong side, BUG pocket weak side.

2. When I carry 2 separate pistols for 2 separate tasks. A small game "hunting pistol" (most often a Ruger MK II target) is carried cross draw while my "defensive pistol" is carried strong side.

But if you carried both strong side, you could go akimbo style! Just kidding. In all seriousness, this makes a lot of sense.

3. easier access to the pistol in a long car drive situation

I was actually thinking about this, and asked the question in another thread regarding how to carry for quicker access in the car. Personally, I'd prefer a car holster, and am specifically looking at a mount for under the steering wheel. Part of this has to do with my strong hand being my left hand, so that puts me in a bit different position. I'd rather not use my left hand for trying to defend against an attacker on the driver side, because the door would get in the way, but I don't want to swap between straight draw and cross draw holsters on my left side.

MtnSpur
July 4, 2012, 01:12 PM
Took some NRA sanctioned/recommended pistol safety and marksmanship courses over the years and every instructor I had advocated strong side for everyday CC. I don't know if that was individual preference on their part.
I've always carried OWB about 4 o'clock as I've not much "girth" and the 2 choices I typically carry just fit that position. The downside, being strapped into the pickup, there just simply isn't an easy way to clear the weapon if it was so holstered. Naturally the options are moving the handgun to the console or between seat/console holster or adopting a cross draw for driving approach. I can see the advantage of the later if the threat was coming from the drivers side but the passenger side is a LONG swing in retrospect. No answer, just another thought to mull over ;)

SharpsDressedMan
July 4, 2012, 01:17 PM
Having a rifle in my hand, and a pistol on my belt is a common occurance, so I have kind of migrated to crossdraw carry (in a vertical rig) quite often. I pack different guns different ways, but crossdraw is now my most common mode of carry. I always know if the gun is "covered", as opposed to the few occasions where I have found my outer garment slipped up a bit on the strong side, exposing the bottom of the holster or gun grip, etc, after getting out of a vehicle or chair. If you use a long gun enough, you are going to bang it on the strongside holstered gun. Crossdraw, it is out of the way of long gun handling.

Drail
July 4, 2012, 05:51 PM
One very important factor to consider if you're thinking of "mounting" a holster to the inside of your car is that the holster MUST be very securely mounted to something solid and the holster must retain the gun very securely. In an accident that gun can become an airborne missile and injure or even kill you or a passenger. I decided a long time ago that my gun will be strapped to me - all of the time because if you need it, you'll need it right now. While riding a motorcycle one day with my carry gun in a pack on the rear of the bike three guys jumped out of the car behind me and tried to take me down. I will never carry off of my person again. I don't care if it's uncomfortable or if someone sees it. It's going to be where I can grab it quickly.

gilfo
July 4, 2012, 06:07 PM
I had problems with my shoulder also (frozen shoulder) so I started to carry in the apendex position. Most times uncomfortable but only way I can carry now. It also lends it's self to making roughly the same movement for pocket carry. I'd say for me the best position for me is 2 o'clock.

shafter
July 4, 2012, 09:21 PM
I prefer to carry my single actions in the cross draw position. For me it is faster than strong side. It's uncomfortable to reach my arm up higher than natural too grasp the gun.

winddummy
July 4, 2012, 09:27 PM
if you need a cross draw try kirkpatrickleather.com it would be their texas cross draw about $72

rcmodel
July 4, 2012, 09:34 PM
Does anyone carry "cross draw"? Not if I can help it.

I find it useful for long barrels and setting down.

Otherwise, it is uncomfortable, awkward, and the butt is in the way most of the time.

rc

Clark
July 5, 2012, 04:04 AM
http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx220/ClarkM/Kel-TecP3AT380inshirtpocketwithclipandflaplifted-1.jpg

I am right handed, and I carry over my heart.

Cross draw to my heart, hope the OTHER guy dies.

chg
July 5, 2012, 11:14 AM
A good way to carry if mostly seated or if wearing a large backpack.

340PD
July 5, 2012, 08:07 PM
Look at Fist Holsters driving holster. It may be the best of both worlds for you.


http://www.fist-inc.com/holsters/holster/CATDRIVE.htm

oldcelt
July 5, 2012, 09:13 PM
I carry cross, between 9 and 10. easy access when in a vehicleor either hand. If I choose to carry a longer revolver it's in a sholder holster in jacket weather.

Rexster
July 6, 2012, 09:25 AM
I carry "primary" at 0300 virtually all the time, because I am mandated to do so in uniform, at work, and it makes sense to have one consistent carry position. Crossdraw, to me, is a good way to carry my second handgun, off the clock, depending upon clothing and climate. Front crossdraw, which is positioned forward of the point of the hip, can be VERY fast when one has the opportunity to preemptively assume a "Jack Benny" pose; there is no rule that says one must draw the "primary" handgun first. (I consider a second weapon so normal, by now, that it feels a bit strange when only carrying one.)

I saw one reply post mentioned AIWB. This can be a very good solution for those of us with shoulder mobility issues, and should be considered. Really, the only difference between front crossdraw and the appendix position is on which side of the belt buckle one wears the weapon, and that it is faster to draw when one is not crossing the body's centerline.

For those who insist that wearing weapons on opposite sides of the body makes weapon retention more problematic during a struggle, well, I agree. It makes sense to have the two weapons together, so one arm can shield both of them. When I routinely wore one of my two SP101 snubbies crossdraw, it was in a left-hand crossdraw holster, in front of, and right next to, my "primary" SP101
worn at 0300 for right-hand draw.

coondogger
August 8, 2012, 10:54 PM
I have long carried a small autoloader at the five oclock position. But like DocRX, I suffered a shoulder injury making it impossible to reach behind me to draw a weapon and racking the slide. So I began carrying a model 49 cross draw during my rehabilitation. It's fast, simple, and clean. It also lends itself
well to concealment.

Kendahl
August 9, 2012, 12:49 AM
cross draw @ 1:20:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMFM8SeW51E
I remember that episode of Miami Vice. At the end, the hit man went down in a hail of gunfire after refusing to surrender.

The kid with the snubby died because he wasn't ready to shoot.

The actor who played the hit man was a regular competitor in IPSC. He received some criticism for demonstrating advanced shooting techniques on prime time network television.

The Man With No Name
August 9, 2012, 01:15 PM
I sometimes use a cross-draw technique developed by Ed McGivern (See his book, Fast and Fancy Revolver Shooting, available in reprint from www.amazon.com) and it ain't slow with short barreled guns. The handgun is placed just to the left of the belt buckle at about 10:30 to 11:00.

The shooter shifts his feet so they are standing side ways to the target. At this point you twist at the hips counter-clockwise as the hand grips the butt, and that movement will almost pull the gun clear of the holster. Tip the muzzle up at waist level and shoot, or twist again at the hips going clockwise to face more toward the target while lifting the gun to sholder level and taking a two-handed grip.

If you can't do otherwise, practice the draw at home with an unloaded gun. The addition of an laser sight will offer a substantial advantage a training aid, as well for the intended purpose.
Exactly. It is very fast actually. How many times does anyone think they will be in a situation where they have to draw their weapon and be squared off with their adversary? I'm not knocking tradional strong side carry, just saying that cross draw is not slower like many make it out to be. I also find it does not make your weapon more vulnerable to a snatch if proper retention techniques are used. I love old photos of police officers showing that many (long ago) actually preferred cross draw. I would personally carry cross draw myself on duty but paranoid supervisors see it as dangerous on the range.

Remllez
August 9, 2012, 01:15 PM
As some others have said "if properly canted" on the belt @ 1:30, for driving, I find it most comfortable and convenient. To each their own however, and one must try each combination to decide for themselves.


PS. I usually carry short barreled revolvers in this manner and have no experience with larger framed guns.

Dnaltrop
August 9, 2012, 02:23 PM
I wear my 4.5/8" .45 Blackhawk in a Ted Blocker Vertical shoulder rig, with 12 reloads riding on the opposite side. Usually under one of my typically eye-rending Hawaiian shirts.

Cross draw isn't too bad as long as you practice getting your thumb to the hammer on the correct side of the straps, and in a pinch I can still prairie twist enough with the bad arm to get ONE shot off if my main hand is "busy"

Mostly intended as an outdoor and Hunting rig, my bad arm covers the area pretty much permanently, making it more concealable than my IWB M&P at times.

It does get a bit hotter in the summer however, those straps going over one of my current undershirts destroys any natural air circulation on your back.

Nuclear
August 9, 2012, 04:49 PM
I suspect a lot of the strong side mania is due to the fact that almost no ranges allow drawing from a cross draw holster, due to concerns over sweeping other shooters, thus making practice at a range difficult if not impossible, which in turn means instructors won't get money from you as a student.

If you are in a contest to outdraw a bad guy, you are already failed situational awareness and are in a very bad situation.

I find it almost impossible to get to a strong side gun when driving, so I've carried cross draw on car trips.

MCgunner
August 9, 2012, 05:50 PM
I suspect a lot of the strong side mania is due to the fact that almost no ranges allow drawing from a cross draw holster, due to concerns over sweeping other shooters, thus making practice at a range difficult if not impossible, which in turn means instructors won't get money from you as a student.

Never thought of it, but you could have something there.

shiftyer1
August 10, 2012, 01:12 AM
Iwb crossdraw of a snubnose is most comfortable for me.

berettaprofessor
August 10, 2012, 10:42 AM
44 posts and nobody said it? Okay, I will; if it was good enough for Wild Bill, it can't be that bad.:neener:

shamelessinct
August 10, 2012, 02:53 PM
Actually, if you research Wild Bill's method of carry, he tucked the Navy Colts in his sash butt forward, but performed a "cavalry" draw, reaching down with the palm out and twisting the pistol as he drew, rather than a reach across the body cross draw. Or so I have read.

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