Who would you want on YOUR side in a gunfight?

[Mark IV Series 80]

Who would you want to be on your side in a gunfight?

Choose the partner that you would want to have if you got into a firefight.

Some are no longer with us, but please assume that everyone is here in top form.

[Stephen Ewing]

My first choice is Carlos Hathcock.

Steve

[Smiley]

I would want both crews from TFL and THR. Together I doubt if anybody could bother us including most other countries.:evil:

[HeavyHaul]

What? I can't choose all of the above? Oh well, Mr. Jordan is the only one of the bunch that I have had the honor of meeting, so he is my choice.

Bill

[PATH]

My buddy is not on the list. It ain't always the best it is the one who is more willing! I want somebody I know watching my back!
I know of those folks but I don't know those folks!

[Hkmp5sd]

SEAL Team Six would be nice but I'd settle for Alvin York or Audie Murphy.

[The Silver Bullet 1719]

Jim Cirillo, hands down.

[Hkmp5sd]

Of course, if you are in need of serious firepower, you should use Tamara, Runt and Kaylee. They have more guns and fire more practice rounds per year than the US Army & Marine Corp combined. :)

[isaidme]

the A team:uhoh:

[Zundfolge]

I'll take God on my side

:neener:

[Monkeyleg]

Chuck Norris. He has all the fancy hardware and never runs out of energy or ammo. Must be a special type of magazine or feed-belt that he uses.

[Iggy]

Same here.. The man was awesome with a .357

[Hkmp5sd]

Must be a special type of magazine or feed-belt that he uses.

Nah, it's the new combination of micro-technology and Star Trek teleportation technology. They can now beam the cartridges directly from the factory and into the user's firearm. Of course, ATF has determined this is in violation of the 1994 Assault Weapon ban and has restricted it's use to LEO's and movie stars.

[Mike Irwin]

Askins or Jordan.

Askins was a stone killer. VERY frightening man. Probably had ZERO fear in a gunfight.

Jordan because he was absolutely sure of himself and his ability. There's a story that when Jordan was a military provost marshal a soldier who had had too much to drink was waving around a loaded rifle and called him out. Jordan walked into the barracks and just stood there. Didn't draw his gun, nothing. The guy took one look at Jordan and passed flat out from shock.

True or not, I don't know.

[Zorro]

I Know for a fact at the moment of truth he will not hesitate to kill.

Targets, and Police work are different from Combat.

And since you said "Gunfight" all the social stuff is over at that point.

[sanchezero]

Chow Yun Fat.

[coonan357]

all the above , :neener:

[roscoe]

Will Munny

[T.Stahl]

Several M-gunners with MG3s and loooong belts. :D

[Pappy John]

The United States Marines

[Kahr carrier]

Clint Eastwood and the cast from HEAT.:neener:

[gypsy3]

Susan Sarrandan........Either way.....shes going to bite the dust...

[M1911]

I'm with Pappy. A company of Marines, a bunch of Abrams tanks (with me inside one of them, hightailing it in the other direction), artillery on call, attack choppers and A10s orbiting.

[JPM70535]

Bill Jordan. I saw the man shoot necco wafers at 10' from a holstered draw in less than a second, and the man was in his 70s.

Totally awesome.

[Onslaught]

"Bill Jordan"

Is that the "RealTree" Bill Jordan?

If so, I had no idea he was such a legend. Around here (his hometown), he's kind of a joke. It's probably not the same guy though, because I don't think the RealTree Bill Jordan is that old.

Anyway, I'm with Smiley... I'd feel better protected with TFL and THR members than any "famous" gunslingers. Especially if Skunkabilly's with us :D He's got more ammo than Rambo.

[ThePerfectOne]

damn, I must be pretty young (or pretty dumb :p ) 'cause I never heard of these guys (ok, I heard about Jeff Cooper, but that's it)!

naahh...what did you expect TPO, you're from Belgium :o
the only gun legend that lived in Belgium was John Moses Browning (the man even died in Belgium), altough he would not be my first choice for a partner in a gunfight :D

[DeltaElite]

Cirillo. He has been there and done that.

[lostdog]

Jeffrey dalmer, charles mason, pee-wee gaskins,..If i'm gonna fight I want people who ENJOY killing and are not bound by moral standards...... Oh, wait..that's sarah brady and bill clinton and al gore... really... Jeff cooper would have a .45, Massad ayoob woulod have a glock .40(my fav.), Jordan would carry a colt saa .45, and elmer keith would have two .44 mags. any of those guys would be a big help.......but I'd bring a guy named Richard Machinko(seal team 6) hasta bye-bye

[Jim V]

Bill Jordan, US Border Patrol, not the RealTree Bill Jordan, would use a S&W M-19 not a SAA. Sorry.

But for this discussion I agree with Mike Irwin, Charlie Askins. We know for a fact that he killed a lot of people, he bragged about it in his books and articles. Those who knew him would attest that he had as much remorse for shooting some one as he did for swatting a fly.

My number two choice would be Jordan. Then Cirillo.

[rgc]

because he is a better shot and I am faster in the 100 yard dash:eek:

You out there Bill? :p :p :p

[foghornl]

ALL of the above. Plus our members here, folks from keepandbeararms.com, and members from TheArmedCitizen.net.

And for backup, Easy Company from the 101st Airborne [Just finished watching "Band Of Brothers"] ;)

[SpeedRacer2002]

While it may not be the most exciting answer. I'll take my brother in an instant. There are others out there who shoot better but none that I know I can trust with my life as if it were his own. That tie runs deeper than anything else, and I know that if it came down to it we would be looking out for each other and not ourselves.

[Mute]

Godzilla! http://www.guam.net/home/apadua/animated/godzilla.gif

[soonershooter]

I'll take Jordan. I like Steve's answer. I would prefer to be at Hathcock range! :)

[dev_null]

I want Eastwood's character from the early spaghetti westerns, with one of those guns that shoots 93 rounds without reloading.

-0-

[10-Ring]

Robo Cop :evil: and his brother :evil:

[Viking6]

I like rgc's answer! Anybody that's a bigger and slower target than me.

[ReadyontheRight]

Carlos Hathcock and the ability to light up a target for air support.

If I need to get closer, I'll take ex-Gov. Ventura if he can still carry that General Electric XM214 Minigun.:D

[Dave Markowitz]

I know Walt and I've seen him shoot.

[Trisha]

My love and partner these past +11 years, Susan.

We've been there and done that; and lived.

And while I ask the Goddess every day to see me never have to face that again, I will always delight in practicing team defensive drills with Susan above and beyond any other person no matter what.

Otherwise, Cooper and Cirillo (just to keep this "let's pretend...")

Trisha

[dfariswheel]

I'd take what was probably the deadliest killer and gunman America ever produced........Skinny, scrawny, baby-faced, stone cold killer Audie Murphy.

I just finished reading "No name on the Bullet" the best biography written about him. After the war, he was ALWAYS armed, and ALWAYS ready, willing, and certainly able to kill.

Most people never knew that Murphy was so fast with a gun, ANY GUN. There were a few people around who were as fast as he was, but NOBODY was faster. Unlike most of the "fast guns", Murphy was that fast with live ammo. Many people saw him make shots that just defied belief.

It also helped that he killed between 250-400 German and Italian soldiers. Any number of "tough guys" took one look at Murphy's eyes and suddenly remembered that they had important business elsewhere.
One astute observer recommends that the next time a Murphy movie is on, wait for a closeup and take a look. Murphy is usually sardonically smiling, but his eyes are like a shark's, absolutely dead.

Other than Murphy, I'd go with Wild Bill Hickok or John Wesley Hardin. These guys were great shots, but were so dangerous because they were ALWAYS ready to shoot.
Point a gun at most people and they're thinking about dying. Point a gun at them, and they were thinking about how they were going to kill you.

[Schuey2002]

I'll take the "Outlaw Jose Wales"..:D

Or, a platoon of British S.A.S. members.:evil:

[JohnK]

Of those listed I'd pick Cirillo first, followed very closely by Bill Jordan. If we could pick anyone I'd pick a friend who's the best shot I've ever seen and I've known him for 30 years (damn that's a long time!) and know I can count on him, as much as the others are legendary I've never met them and wouldn't put the same trust in them as I would a lifelong friend.

[Woodchuck]

Matt Dillon

[lostdog]

This sounds like a book I just finished... "pale horse coming" It is a fictional book in the vain of the greek legend seven against thebes and it uses most of the people in this poll, under very slightly diffrent names. Try to spot who's who if you read it.

PS: if b. jordan would use a m-19 then who is the jordan guy that was so fast with a saa?

[PlayTheAces]

Other than Murphy, I'd go with Wild Bill Hickok or John Wesley Hardin. These guys were great shots, but were so dangerous because they were ALWAYS ready to shoot.

Since we're not limiting ourselves to those currently breathing, both these gents came immediately to mind. Hickok because he was most likely the best shot in the old west, and Hardin because he was just plain scary. Maybe nuts would be a better word.

But, my choice would have to be Wyatt Earp. A decent shot, probably the most poised and cool shooter of his time, and either lucky or smart enough to live to a ripe old age. I'd feel pretty good having him on the team.

[Harold Mayo]

Of the ones listed, it's Charles Askins without a doubt. Bill Jordan is a close second.

Some of the others have "been there, done that" (I hate that phrase), but NOT to the extent of Askins. The man was just cold, apparently. He also grew up in a time and place that most of the others did NOT. Askins' outlook on killing another man was not, apparently, any different than killing an animal. To read "Unrepentant Sinner", you get the picture that he actually placed LESS value on human life than animal. He seemed to enjoy shooting people.

[Okiecruffler]

All of those folks are fine I suppose, and I'm getting fond of all you folks, but when push comes to shove, I want The Wife by my side. We've practiced and drilled and discussed until it's just second nature.

[Daniel Flory]

I would pick Charlie Askins to fight for me but I would pick Jeff Cooper to fight with me.

[cratz2]

Jim Cirillo.

Many would be fine choices but I just sort of get the impression that he's been through so much that he doesn't even sweat during gun fights any more. He just says ---> :neener:

[Gordon]

Clint Smith of course because hes a) still alive b) in better shape as a tactician and marksman at this moment than othersc) probably a better combat shot than the old timers were as he has taught the Modern Technique for a long time and 'practice makes perfect'. If the oldtimers even in their peaks entered modern competitions of realistic combat marksmanship they would be dwarfed by modern atheletes!

[D.W. Drang]

Insufficiant data. The correct response is OBVIOUSLY "All of the above."
"Rule 1: Bring a gun. Bring 2 guns. Bring all of your friends that have guns..."

[mrstang01]

I voted for Clint as well, but missed seeing Jordan's name on the list. He's been there and done that. Askins was a cold blooded killer, no doubt, but if we are going for the toughest, I'd have to vote for Mr. Elmer Keith. He was another old boy who just went ahead and did what he thought was right, without the bragging attitude Askins had.

And besides, anybody who can live through a fire like he did, has got to be a tough old hombre!

Michael

[Camel]

Id want some Gurkhas on my side. They sound like a scary bunch!




"In fact, just last week a war game took place in the heart of the Omani desert. The objective was a two-man post held by the Lancers, an armored infantry unit. One-hundred yards away, a platoon of elite special forces dismounted from personnel carriers and charged the post. The first four soldiers to reach the Lancers threw their SA80 rifles to the ground, whipped out curved, razor-sharp short-swords for hand-to-hand combat, jumped into the nest, and simulated slitting the Lancers' throats. Observers on the sidelines were rendered speechless.

These knife-wielding warriors are members of the Royal Gurkha Rifles. And they're not British--they're Nepalese. Their signature blade is called the kukri. Gurkhas have been known to decapitate their enemies with it (it can also double as a deadly boomerang)."


Finally a true story told by General Sir (later Field Marshal Viscount) W J Slim.

“Early in his command of 14th Army he encouraged constant patrolling by all forward units. One Gurkha patrol on return presented themselves before their General, proudly opened a large basket, lifted from it three gory Japanese heads, and laid them on his table. They then politely offered him for his dinner the freshly caught fish which filled the rest of the basket.”

:what: :what:

[JeepDriver]

Someone I know and Trust.

There are only 3 people on this planet that fit that description. None of them are on that list.

[Shaughn Leayme]

Horatio , Hannibal, Sun Tzu, Ceasar (thoroughly nasty bunch, whichever you want to pick), Napolean, Rommel, Patton, Genghis Khan and a host of others.

I opt for sneaky mean and down right dirty. Any one of the above mentioned person's, if brought forth to the here and now, would be one of my choices.

As far as the list posted...ALL OF THE ABOVE.......

[WYO]

Doc Holliday. . . . or any of the above.

[CZF]

WHat about Col. Rex Applegate?

No gun, then he would use a knife or his hands.

deadly efficient with a .45 auto or any implement.

[Greg G]

Lucas McCain

[mgjohn]

All were good choices, but I went with Charles Askins.
Why you ask?? Because of all the other choices he has the track record for leaving no bad guys alive.

[Blackhawk]

My choice would be somebody I know, REALLY know, not just some celebrity I know of.

No matter what somebody has done in the past, including combat, there's no way to know what they'll do in a new situation. I know some combat vets who were avid hunters for decades after, then they had an epiphany, and now can't bear to shoot a deer.

Whomsoever's my choice for my side in a gunfight will have to be somebody I KNOW feels the need to be in it AT THE EXACT TIME of the fight.

[Dienekes]

Jim Cirillo. Spent a couple of hours talking gunfights and firearms training with him in 1981 when he was instructing for US Customs at Glynco GA. Although he had (and still has) a keen interest in experimentation, he thought all the emphasis on hardware was misplaced. He did some of his most notable work with a M10 Smith. One of his more useful efforts was an article on how to pick a good man.

Spent a similar afternoon with Rex Applegate a few years later. These guys have a bit of an aura about them which is rather comforting...

As J.B. Books said, it's not about how well you can shoot; it's how willing you are.

It's really not about guns after all.

[ZekeLuvs1911]

An A-10 and an AC-130........:D

[STEVE M]

I voted for Bill Jordan. Not only was he very very good but he would be more likely to try to keep me alive than Askins would.
Besides, Jordan was like 6'3 or 4". I could use him for cover while I shot:D

[Beren]

Ripley from "Aliens." Maybe Hicks if his facial scarring wasn't too bad. A cloned Hudson for comedy relief.

[firestar]

Rosie and Oprah!

I would use them as human shields and take nice slow accurately aimed shots from between their folds of fat. Unless the other guy has a .50 cal there is no way his bullets would penertrate all those layers.:evil: :neener:

[Tim]

Cyberdyne Systems Model 101, 800 series. :cool:

[Amegatek]

I like lostdog's choice. Richard Marcinko is very intimidating w/o a gun. With a gun watch out! He was a SEAL in Vietnam, when noone new what SEAL's were. For up close he would be great. Carlos Hathcock for the "reach out and touch someone" option. :)

[Blueduck]

Picked Askins, but then again he might just shoot me to get his body count up:eek:

Change my vote to Jordon...

[Kahr carrier]

Lucy Liu after seeing ECK VS SEVER.:D :neener:

[JMLV]

leaving Runt, Tamara, and Kaylee off the list. I think they would be the poll winners by far if you had done so.
But going by the folks you did list I would have to agree with Mike Irwin - Askins was a stone killer if you were his enemy and from what I read you could'nt ask for a better man in your corner if he was your friend.
Bill Jordan was also a man who "would do to ride the river with"
As they say. Cool in a gunfight and possiblely one of the fastest who ever lived. (I would love to have seen a contest between him Ed Mc given and Jelly Brice what a trio they would have made!
Question to the list:
Who knows who Jelly Brice was?

[MrAcheson]

James Butler Hickock and/or Wyatt Earp

[Kor]

...The fastest - and best-dressed - gunman in J. Edgar Hoover's FBI. His nickname, "Jelly," came from the '20s-era slang term, "jelly-bean," for a dapper, well-dressed man.

Of course, I only know about him from reading an article in Guns & Ammo...:rolleyes:

[Delmar]

Superman and Lone Wolf Gonsuelas

[Harold Mayo]

If the oldtimers even in their peaks entered modern competitions of realistic combat marksmanship they would be dwarfed by modern atheletes!

Gotta vehemently disagree with that statement...

Modern day competitions of realistic combat marksmanship AREN'T. They are games, pure and simple. Although they are better than nothing, they miss the mark. Take winners of these competitions and put them in Simunitions training against guys who they can beat in the contests and you have people on pretty equal footing. Shooting at targets is different than shooting at people who are shooting back.

Yeah, they would probably lose, but that's because they don't know the rules of the game.

This same thing was brought up in a martial arts discussion in which I participated in once. A bunch of the guys thought that, since they were bigger than the orientals of yesteryear and since they had better training equipment that they would be able to beat "old-time" martial artists. Well, maybe, but they miss the mark.

The point is that most of the guys on that list have been in and survived multiple gunfights. Most grew up in a time where people weren't quite as conditioned against shooting and/or killing someone as we are today. Read Askins' autobiography and you will see what I mean. Another poster was dead on when he quoted J.B. Books (love that movie..."...and a little somethin' extra!"). Technical perfection in a game (or even realistic training) DOES NOT automatically translate to success in reality.

I have several friends and acquaintances who have been in war and have been in shootings in civilian or LE life. I would take any one of them who has actual EXPERIENCE under his belt over any of the competition shooters who do NOT. In a real gunfight, Robbie Leatham would not necessarily beat Elmer Keith or Bill Jordan. No offense to those who have honed their shooting skills in competitions, but a real gunfight is not an IPSC (or even IDPA or USPSA) match.

[lostdog]

Let me just say that here is FINALLY somebody on here who new who richard "dick" marcinko is. And I think ANYBOdY trained as a sniper would be nice to have along.

[STEVE M]

You guys are making me feel old. I know who D.A. 'Jelly' Brice

was, and have meet and talked with Dick Marcinko. Of the 2 in a

gunfight I'd take Brice, If I didn't know what the situation was

going to be or could plan ahead the Marcinko would get the nod.

[hksw]

If we're shooting at high noon, I choose Bob Munden.

[Mastrogiacomo]

Can't say I'd want any of the guys you mentioned. Never heard of them, never seen them -- give me Chow Yun Fat or Simon Yam any day. :cool:

[mrstang01]

Au Contraire lostdog, I know who Marcinko-san is too. I think of all the folks I've seen listed, Demo Dick would be my choice. I don't know him personally, but I've known some of his "children", and if they vouch for him, that's good enough for me.

If nothing else, he's got the right mindset for a fight. You do whatever it takes to win.

Michael

[pax]

Gila Hayes. First, she's still alive (some of those guys aren't). Second, she's still mobile (some of those guys aren't). Third, she lives right around the corner from me (most of those guys don't). Finally, if Gila were in a gunfight, Marty Hayes would probably come along and help too, since she's married to him (none of those guys are).

pax

Gold is for the mistress, silver for the maid
Copper for the craftsman, cunning at his trade.
"Good", said the Baron, sitting in his hall,
"But Iron, Cold Iron, is the master of them all!"
-- Rudyard Kipling

[TeamCorbon]

Anybody who has met Jim Grover would pick him easily off the list posted ( I believe). He has all you need to get out of a bad situation especially the mindset. He came across as the most ruthless person if he's put in a situation where necessary.

If Ken Hackathorn had been listed however, I would have picked him first.

[Selfdfenz]

Audie Murphy or Alvin York. Hopefully both.
S-

[Tim Burke]

I find it hard to believe that there are 10 votes for Ayoob, and 1 for Louis Awerbuck.

[BHP9]

I will agree with Mike Irwin. Charles Askins loved to kill people and was fearless. I recommend you read his book "Unrepentant Sinner" it will make your blood run cold. I think today it would be hard for Askins to stay out of prison.

[Ala Dan]

Greeting's All,

Well, thats a tough choice? Carlos would have been a
good one; but since I can't have him by my side, I would
choose from this list:

How about James Arness, as he hasn't missed in about
40 year's!

I voted for my friend Gabe Suarez, of The Halo Group.
But these guy's listed below ain't half bad themselves:

a) Mr. Stephen A. Camp
b) Mr. Howard C. Collins (aka: Capbuster)
c) Mr. Alex McCallum (aka: Blue Heeler from TFL)

These guy's would cover my back, pretty darn well!

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

[mikey357]

...I voted for Cirillo...but wish that we could have voted for more than just one person, 'cause I'd like to have Bill Jordan--the ex-border patrolman, NOT the Camo guy--on my side, and IF I KNEW that the doo-doo was gonna hit the fan, I'd drag ol' Charlie Askins along...just need to make sure in advance that somebody on the other side needed killin', because Askins would do it...no if's, ands or buts....mikey357

[M58]

Jim
Bill, if he were alive.

[seeker_two]

lostdog: the SAA guy you're thinking of is probably Bob Munden (as seen on AMERICAN SHOOTER)--and he would be on my list too.

For my "fire team" I'd take all those mentioned in the poll & in discussion--plus add the Boers, all Spec-Ops forces, Billy Dixon, the Canadian snipers in Afghanistan, Vlad Tepes (Dracula), Tom Selleck (he IS a good shot in real life), Jerry Miculek, Rob Leatham, Doug Koenig, John Taffin, Terry Murbach, Jim Taylor, the rest of the SIXGUNNERS (you know who you are), and Rosie O'Donnel (for cover).

Now, if there were TWO people shooting at me...:D

[Lone Star]

I was amused to see the post about the Ghurkas presenting the Jap heads with the fish to Gen. Slim, later Field Marshal Earl (Viscount?) Slim of Burma.

Those interested should hit the library and see if they can find the two-volume autobiography of Lt. Col. (Brevet Brigadier) John Masters, D.S.O. Known mainly for his bestselling novels of the 1950's, Masters was, until Indian independence, an officer with the 4th Prince of Wales's Own Ghurka Rifles, with experience against both Indian rebels and the Japanese. (He commanded the British outpost known as "Blackpool" that withstood repeated Japanese attacks in Burma.)

The books are, "Bugles and a Tiger" (prewar India) and, "The Road Past Mandalay".

I greatly respect the khukri in the hands of an experienced user, and at least one was wielded in Italy (along with his revolver) by an officer who got into a German pillbox and killed nine men there. He received the Victoria Cross for this achievement. But I don't believe the claim that one can be used as a boomerang. (sp.) Masters does have a tale or two about them, though...

Read what he said about how he felt about Japanese after seeing their deeds, and you might want him or his men on your side in a fight...at least, if it was against Japanese. Attitude is half the battle. Feeling no more emotion about killing a man than you'd have about killing a wasp or spider is a big help.

By the way, I think "Jelly" spelled his last name as, "Bryce". Anyone here sure? Again, this was a man whose rep was earned by how fast and accurate he was in shooting people, not "tactical" targets. That counts with me.

Lone Star

[Tim Burke]

I don't believe the claim that one can be used as a boomerang.My understanding is that there are aboriginal throwing weapons that do not return that are also called boomerangs. Perhaps this is what is meant. I don't think a khukri will return when thrown, unless thrown straight up, and I certainly don't want to try to catch one that is spinning.By the way, I think "Jelly" spelled his last name as, "Bryce".That is how Paul Kirchner spelled it in his book, The Deadliest Men.
Good book, BTW.

[Lone Star]

Well, golly: can we include fictional personages? Modesty Blaise, who never seemed to miss with her Colt .32, her Star PD .45, or a S&W .41 Magnum. Pity that author Peter O'Donnell killed off Modesty and her knife-thowing pal Willie Garvin in the last volume, "The Cobra Trap". No one else seemed able to do 'em in. ;)

Good books, if you haven't read them. The two movies were awful, though.

Oh: I give honorable mention to Marguerite Krux ("Crew") on TV's, "The Lost World". She was cold as ice when she popped that German agent in the first episode, and will cheerfully kill anyone or any dinosaur that menaces her or her pals! Foxy dame, too. (Played by Aussie actress Rachel Blakely).

Lone Star

[clem]

Dep. Joe Harvey, Pima County Sheriff's Department

[Tim Burke]

can we include fictional personages?Apparently, we can, but that isn't what I did. The Deadliest Men is a collection of 49 short biographies. It's subtitled "The World's Deadliest Combatants throughout the Ages."
I know Lone Star knows this, but I didn't want anyone else getting the wrong impression.

[CoolBreeze]

None of those on the list:

I would want two people:

My father Al and my Uncle Billy.

Al had fought and killed:
Japs in WWII,
North Koreans and Communist China army troops during Korean conflict and had been an active special "advisor" in French Indo China.
Al had been a Golden Gloves boxer, and all-Service boxer and later took up Karate. Al had also boxed pro for awhile with a 9 and 2 record. He as a southpaw. Mom made him quit :-) .
Al had competed international in 1000 yards marksman championships and won using a "tuned" M1.
Al had also been a an armourer and could fix, repair and utilize anything from a 45 pistol to a 5 inch cannon.

Billy, a Marine, had fought and killed:
Japs in WWII,
North Koreans and Communist Chinese in Korean War and North Viet Cong iduring the Viet Nam conflict. After the Korean conflict he had instructed unconvential warfare skills and stayed in that field until he retired as an command E-9, with 30 years.
Billy had also been a boxer in his younger days.

Both my Dad and my Uncle had "seen the elephant" many, many times and often wondered why they had lived and why so many of their friends and comrades had died. Both myself and my brother are named after fallen comrades/friends of my Dad.

Both are dead now but if they could be alive I would want them on my side.

Both loved family and both could efficiently kill without hesitation if they, their comrades-in-arms or their families were in deadly peril.

[C. H. Luke]

Chuck Taylor..........Without a doubt one of the World's premier Small Arms Instructors.

[Vern Humphrey]

Bugs Bunny -- he always outfoxes opponents like Yosemite Sam.:D

[C. H. Luke]

Lone Star,

Here's a link to some info on Jelly:

http://www.donrearic.com/twodeadlymen.html