9mm safe to store "tubular fed" ?


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DefiantDad
July 3, 2012, 09:05 PM
Will it be safe to store 9mm lengthwise bullet to primer? FMJ mostly.

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Owen Sparks
July 3, 2012, 09:07 PM
Stored in what?

The Lone Haranguer
July 3, 2012, 09:23 PM
I don't think a round nose FMJ could set off a primer in a "chain fire," but I'm not willing to be the test case.

T Bran
July 3, 2012, 09:29 PM
I dont think I would be very comfortable storing ball type ammo in this fashion seems like one high primer and an accidental drop might ruin your day.
Hollow point semiwad cutters would be much more forgiving.
Take a look at the bullet profiles commonly used in leverguns which are tube fed as a pretty decent guideline.
Just my thoughts others will surely differ but I tend to err on the side of caution.
Stay safe and good question.

rcmodel
July 3, 2012, 09:47 PM
I have no idea what this question is even about?

Storing 9mm in a tube of some sort, for some strange reason??

Regardless, it won't go off from primer / bullet contact unless you drop it off the roof of your house or something else stranger.

rc

DefiantDad
July 3, 2012, 09:56 PM
OK thanks; I know it is a weird question. Anyway, conclusion is, it's probably not safe.

Owen Sparks
July 3, 2012, 10:57 PM
It all depends on if the tube is subject to recoil or impact. Is this tube likely to get dropped? Is it mounted on a firearm and subject to recoil? Are you trying to invent some sort of speed reloading device or what?

mgmorden
July 3, 2012, 10:59 PM
Don't be cryptic on your question. Flesh out the details some so that people can accurately answer it.

Swing
July 3, 2012, 10:59 PM
Ah, hmm, still trying to figure this one out. o.0

OARNGESI
July 4, 2012, 12:59 AM
ive bought ammo thats all just jammed into a box (wwb 100 rd packs ) seems about the same risk

BCRider
July 4, 2012, 01:08 AM
Depending on the length of the tube if you held it vertical and "loaded" it by simply dropping rounds into place the first few would be at some amount of risk as the round dropping down about 6 to 8 inches could potentially hit hard enough to set off the primer.

In a thread sometime back I posted that I had dropped a live round and it hit a coarse grain of sand or something similar primer first when it landed on the pavement. The primer fired and the case went away while the bullet was left spinning on the ground a few feet from my toes. Other shooters that were there to witness this said it was the first time they had ever seen such a thing. And some of them had more than 20 years at this under their belt.

A reply to my thread about this described how an empty casing ejected from the poster's handgun struck a primer in the plastic storage box on his bench and the manner in which it hit was enough to set off the primer for that round.

So it CAN happen depending on the circumstances.

JShirley
July 4, 2012, 01:15 AM
If you had a tube-fed 9x19mm carbine, there would be little danger of a chain fire cause by recoil.

DefiantDad
July 4, 2012, 04:56 AM
Sorry, wasn't deliberately meaning to be cryptic. I just wanted to store my ammo differently because the boxes take up room. Just brainstorming different ways to store it, if possible.

bigfatdave
July 4, 2012, 05:04 AM
Dump identical ammo loose in an ammo can, with a box flattened to indicate what's in there (or your own note, if you're reloading)

You might save a bit of room with tubes, but then you'd have to procure the tubes, load the tubes, and store the tubes.
100 rounds would be something like 9.75 feet long, by my rough math, I don't think tubes will really save room.

DefiantDad
July 4, 2012, 05:21 AM
Actually, you bring up a good point. Does the military keep spare 5.56 loose in ammo cans? And 9mm? (9mm I can see maybe but wouldn't the FMJ 5.56 be risky with the centerfire?). I don't know so I'm asking. Thanks.

FROGO207
July 4, 2012, 09:03 AM
With 9MM and the like IF you were to stack the ammo up to 4 tiers high in an ammo box WITH cardboard dividers between layers I would think that there would be no problem. Many commercial ammo manufacturers (S&B, WWB and the like) send cases of ammo shipped this way with only thin cardboard packing between the ammo with no reported problems. You do see the ammo separated with cardboard between primers and next bullet but if the DOT deems this method to be safe to ship (read drop or get into an automotive accident with) I would think it a pretty safe way to store ammo. Now I store loose 5.56 ammo (as well as other pointed nose rounds) in ammo cans loose in freezer bags. These cans are designed to contain a bunch of bad if the ammo within goes off so I feel no problem there either. Lots of our tax dollars spent making things safe in the military don't ya know.:D I will use the knowledge to my advantage in the civilian world.

Redlg155
July 4, 2012, 10:15 AM
9mm in a tube fed rifle, no problem. My only worry would be eventual bullet setback due to the cartridge having a taper crimp instead of a roll crimp.

JShirley
July 4, 2012, 11:19 AM
Does the military keep spare 5.56 loose in ammo cans

They come in boxes, but if the boxes have been broken, yes, that's common.

John

The Lone Haranguer
July 4, 2012, 04:23 PM
I just wanted to store my ammo differently because the boxes take up room.
That, I can safely say, would not be a problem. Primers require an impact from an object smaller in cross section than the diameter of the primer, not simple pressure from being stacked together, to set them off.

firesky101
July 4, 2012, 06:59 PM
This darn thread, now I want a 9mm levergun. Maybe one that could handle everything from 9x23-9x19. Oh a man can dream.

bigfatdave
July 4, 2012, 07:11 PM
A thought occurs regarding storage

... If you're JUST talking about storage and have some reason to use tubes (cheap/free tubes of some kind, I assume)
... ... nose to nose and tail-to tail would be pretty much free of worries, as far as setting off a primer in a drop or while loading.

Of course, then you're spending all your free time loading them in the tubes, and the tubes still end up being really long to hold any reasonable amount of ammunition ... but the concept could work if they went in correctly.

DefiantDad
July 5, 2012, 12:42 AM
Thanks; that is a good idea. Head/head Tail/Tail. Will keep in mind.

fatcat4620
July 5, 2012, 01:02 AM
It takes up about tge same volume no mater how you store it. Sounds like you are trying to set one off?

rcmodel
July 5, 2012, 01:07 AM
Still and all, they will take up way less storage room in Zip-Lock bags with the air squeezed out of them.

In steel GI ammo cans that are at least designed to contain flying primers and case shrapnel in the event your house catches on fire.

Tubes end to end is just a bad idea anyway I look at it, from both a Space and Safe point of view.

Stored end to end, if one goes of, they all go off!

rc

DefiantDad
July 5, 2012, 04:23 AM
OK, tubes is bad. Agree with the conclusion.

DefiantDad
July 5, 2012, 06:38 PM
I can assure you setting one off is NOT at all what I want to be doing. It's just that there are always gaps and spaces among storage items stacked on shelves, in drawers, etc. so I wanted to see how to take advantage of such gaps. I had thought of Ziploc bags, but then was wondering, the risk in a bag of ammo is the end to end (bullet to primer) arrangement (in random inside a loose bag) so the maximum risk would be if they were end to end "tubular", so the question then became what is the risk of that end to end arrangement for 9mm?

One idea was, IF this was safe, just to wrap the cartridges in a roll, like you do with coins, so maybe you have 5 or 10 in a wrapper.

Anyway, based on the points raised in this thread, I don't think I will be doing any of this and just stick with the factory packaging for now.

By the way, are the military ammo boxes THAT STRONG as to contain explosions in the event of the whole box being burned in fire? Somehow I find that rather unbelievably amazing (?) or is the cartridge only powerful when enclosed inside the narrow chamber and barrel of a gun?

rcmodel
July 5, 2012, 06:44 PM
are the military ammo boxes THAT STRONG as to contain explosions in the event of the whole box being burned in fire?Yes, that is what they are designed to do, among other things.

Ammo in a fire would not all go off at once in one big explosion anyway.
More like popcorn popping as the heat worked its way into the can.

In a fire, the ammo cans rubber lid seal will melt, the lid latch will spring, and pressure will be released slowly as rounds pop off.

The wings on the side of the lid will deflect case frags and flying primers and keep them inside the can.

See this about ammo in a fire:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=7001165#post7001165

rc

DefiantDad
July 5, 2012, 07:22 PM
Thanks; interesting. Maybe I need to look into buying such cans.

bigfatdave
July 5, 2012, 09:13 PM
One idea was, IF this was safe, just to wrap the cartridges in a roll, like you do with coins, so maybe you have 5 or 10 in a wrapper.

That sounds like ... ... work

And yes, ammo cans are pretty great, for more than ammo. Find somewhere that has "30cal" and "50cal" cans, and grab a few of each, the smaller cans don't hold much, while the larger ones aren't much fun to move when full of brass and lead.
Gun shows or army surplus stores are generally where I get mine.

BCRider
July 6, 2012, 02:03 PM
What is wrong with simply storing them in bulk boxes or some other retangular container? The guys are right, you will spend a LOT of time loading all those tubes and the final product will still take up lots of room. Not to mention being VERY unwieldy to handle in the future. The tube itself would need to be decently rigid enough to handle when loaded with the weight of the ammo.

The boxes that the bullets come in and others of around the same size make a lot more sense. Or if you are trying to max out the volume you have available for storage then making up your own plywood boxes that stack perfectly in your cabinets or on your shelves would make a lot more sense.

DefiantDad
July 6, 2012, 11:44 PM
So far it looks like 9mm (and even .223/5.56) loose in milspec ammo boxes will be the solution to maximize storage space (?).

The factory boxes the ammo comes in is nice but there's lots of space in there, between the plastic "crate" for each round.

I don't understand why there is a need to separate the loose ammo in layers, with cardboard? (I understand the labeling using the factory ammo box, but not how cardboard layers would help make it safer?)

FROGO207
July 7, 2012, 12:05 AM
Stacked one on top of another there would be a chance of a direct primer hit by the bullet below if stacked all the same way and no isolation cushioning. If poured randomly into the box this would be a minimal risk for sure and no separation/isolation needed. I put fixed amounts into quart freezer bags, squeeze out the excess air and dump the bags into ammo cans and have never had anything go off even if the ammo can happened to fall off the tailgate of my pickup onto the pavement below (happened twice).

Jeff H
July 7, 2012, 12:17 AM
So far it looks like 9mm (and even .223/5.56) loose in milspec ammo boxes will be the solution to maximize storage space (?).

I get 700 45ACP rounds in a 30 cal can and quite a bit more in 50 cal cans. 9mm, 38 spl, 357 mag, 223, 30-06, and others are all stored this way with no issues. The cans are cheap if you can find a mil surplus shop or even cheaper if you buy ammo in the cans and shoot it.

marcclarke
July 7, 2012, 12:25 AM
Will it be safe to store 9mm lengthwise bullet to primer? FMJ mostly.
No. The issue is the shape of the bullet. I assume you are talking about 9mm FMJ in a tubular magazine such as the tubular magazine beneath the barrel of a lever-action rifle.

The issue is bullet nose shape, not cartridge or caliber.

For safety in a tubular magazine you need a flat-pointed bullet. So any of the truncated-cone or flat-point 9mm FMJ would be OK (I buy both locally, sorry, I don't recall the brands).

DefiantDad
July 7, 2012, 05:13 AM
Thanks guys

kd7nqb
July 7, 2012, 07:49 AM
I would argue that it might not be ideal but it would be safe because if you had an ammo can of 9mm you ARE going to have some rounds that are nose to primer and a good drop would have the same effect. I have seen a few 9mm carbines but never with a tube magazine. I cant imagine why a big ammo can or even ziplock bag wouldn't be an easier way to store your ammo.

smalls
July 7, 2012, 08:42 AM
This sounds like a mythbusters episode for sure, haha. Get a tube slightly larger than a 9mm round, and fill it up full of 'em in a row, nose to primer, then drop them off the roof to see what happens...

Trent
July 7, 2012, 01:37 PM
^^ sounds like a really bad idea lol

smalls
July 8, 2012, 12:47 AM
that's why I'm not volunteering ;)

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