[Min]

I was at the gun range one day, and this guy next to me had a Smith and Wesson autoloader 59XX. He was emptying his mag pretty quick. I was impressed with how smooth the gun was in rapid fire - no recoil, just the slide moving back and forth in quick succesion.

What other guns can do that? I know Glocks can't.

[coltjeeper]

Saying Glocks can't is sort of a misstatement. ANY gun, semi auto, can be fired that quick if the shooter is good enough with the trigger. Hell, I've seen Bob Munden on American Shooter shoot a single action Colt revolver quick enough to make it actually sound like it was full auto.

[bad_dad_brad]

I must disagree, about the Glock. Once you practice and learn the method of holding the trigger back during re-cocking, you can empty a Glock faster than any semi-auto, save a customized SA M1911. And the low position of the slide on the Glock forgoes almost any recoil or muzzle flip, in a 9mm. My G17 shoots so calmly that you would swear she is a .22.

[Min]

Okay forget I said anything about Glocks. I don't want to turn this into a defend Glock thread.

[Chris Rhines]

Aside from operator skill (!) the two most important mechanical factors involved in rapid-fire are ergonomics and trigger reset length.

Ergonomics - a pistol should have as low a bore axis a possible, to minimize muzzle flip. Overall the pistol design should be conducive to a solid, balanced grip. It should recoil straight back, without excessive muzzle flip or twisting.

Trigger reset - the distance required to release the trigger before the disconnector resets. In short, after pulling the trigger, you need to release the trigger X distance before you can pull it again. X should be as short as possible. Most pistols require you to release the trigger all the way to its rest position (or close), which is called a full-length reset. Glocks have a short reset distance, you only need to let the trigger about halfway out.) 1911s are even shorter. Supposedly the Steyr M40 has the shortest link of any pistol out there.

- Chris

[Handy]

The P7 can be fired like a machinegun.

[Prodigalshooter]

I shoot IDPA with a guy who makes his STI look like a full auto. I know the STI is a very well made pistol, but I have the feeling this fellow could make my PA 63 shoot the same way. I think it's a whole lot to do with the operator, most pistols will shoot pretty damn fast. The thing is, can one shoot this fast and still hit the right spot?
Yup, some can. That's my goal, to be accurate and fast!

[Hkmp5sd]

Since 9mm's don't have much recoil, especially from the fairly heavy S&W 59 series, if you put a really light spring in it and do a little practice, you can get them to bump-fire like a semi-auto rifle. Of couse, there isn't much accuracy in this method.

[Sox]

The two quickest, in my experience, are the S&W's, and the Walther P99. These both were incredible. Especially the S&W as I didn't really expect that. It had a very short reset. My Sig 239 paled by comparison. My S&W was a blued CS9.

[Powderman]

I'll say that the 1911 series is the best for rapid fire. I'm up to five round "bursts" out of my Colt Enhanced. Not too accurate after 7 yards, but I can get the old iron running pretty doggone fast.

[rugerfreak]

The gun of mine that is really quick and stays on target is my Ruger MKII 6 7/8 tapered Target model. I mean REALLY quick.

A good combination of a light cartridge---heavy gun and light trigger.

[Boats]

It doesn't take a customized 1911 to shoot rapid fire, just the short trigger reset and lack of serious overtravel common to all trigger/shoe JMB derived 1911 designs.

I have never seen a faster rapid fire pistol than the 1911 with targets seven yards in. It was designed for CQB back when such things actually still happpened with regularity in military actions.

[PATH]

I have to say ny 1911 puts them out fastest.

[lostdog]

:rolleyes: ok here it is from the "newbie" - To operate a autoloader at a high rate of fire, you of course need to learn where the trigger "resets" for your firearm. To do this: 1) dry fire your weapon 2) while holding trigger back in the "fired" position rack your slide as if you were chambering a round. 3) release your trigger SLOWLY untill you hear a "click" that is your trigger reset. That is the point at which your gun will fire again. If you train your trigger finger to release to that point then you will shoot much faster. I place a piece of skateboard tape inside my trigger gaurd where it will not interfear with normal gun operation, but I can feel the reset point. Shoot until the tape falls off. That is one of the reasons glocks are so popular with LE is that you can "hammer" or "double tap" very quickly with them.

Most guns from series I kimbers to 3rd gen glocks have a shorter reset to fire than the full travel of the trigger. They have safety mechanisms that are disengaged by the act of pulling the trigger. Reseting the trigger the full distance also resetes thease safetys, which you do not need in rapid fire. I hope this helped. :evil:

[sanchezero]

Funny you should mention Bob Munden. I saw a bit on American Shooter where he timed x shots from a SAA and the same number of shots from a 1911.

The SAA was mechanically faster because of the delay in the 1911 caused by the ejection and feeding process.

Top competitors use special parts (CMC titanium hammer comes to mind) to decrease lock time so they can speed up the rate of fire on the 1911.

[tomkatz]

Min...I know you said forget you said anything about glocks, but I'm really curious why you singled glock out as not being able to do what you described, not trying to start anything.....tom

oh and the Munden thing with the single action revolver, he really is da man!!!!

[buttrap]

Ah shoot real guns for 40 years and try to get used to a "tuppergun"? Glocks do have a place but its not as a rapid fire hit a paper target gun like many folks are used to.

[Kahr carrier]

1911 and Browning High Powers come to mind ,But you rapid fire any semi -auto fast with practice.:)

[wanderinwalker]

The SAA was mechanically faster because of the delay in the 1911 caused by the ejection and feeding process.

Actually, I think the 1911 is slower because of the need to reset the trigger. If you watch the SA revolver speed shooters, they hold the trigger back the ENTIRE time they are shooting. No disconnector to get in the way like with a semi-auto. An autopistol can fire faster than a revolver if it has a FULL-AUTO setting (no trigger reset).

This is just my theory, take it for what you paid for it!! ;)

[Mikel]

Glock 18 :D

[10-Ring]

Of the guns I've shot the 2 I can shoot the fastest are my P7M8 and a buddy's custom 1911.

[lostdog]

I refer to my above post...but my Glock 23 has a full lengh pull of around 1/2" and a reset of a little less than 1/4" ...I could fire my Kimber procdp and make it sound like a "burp gun" both were very fast....but I got rid of the kimber for the glock. :D

[Edward429451]

Glocks are pretty quick considering the short reset of the trigger. This can only effectivly be practiced live fire in my experiance.

[Bob Locke]

What other guns can do that? I know Glocks can't.
Next time I come down there for a family/friend visit I'll bring along my G21 and change your mind! :D

[slavex]

when you say rapid what do you mean exactly? are .17 splits between shots fast enough to qualify for rapid? are .20's too slow? if the .17's make it then I can dump my Beretta down range, accurately at 10 yds with anywhere from .15's to .17 splits, for the whole mag. That's with a speedbump trigger from Ernest Langdon in there, .20's is the best I could average with a standard trigger. My buddies Glock can also do .17's fairly consistantly as well.

[Handy]

If we are talking about directed fire, not spraying as the gun climbs toward the ceiling, several identifiable factors weigh in:

Bore height
Trigger reset and weight
Total recoil

Bore height and recoil balance against each other. That's why the heavier recoiling 1911 may be quicker than a 9mm Sig.

Ideally, you would want a heavy frame, light slide, low bore and light, short reset trigger.

The Glocks have the trigger and lowish bore, but are top heavy.
1911s have trigger and bore, but recoil alot.
The P7 has bore, frame and slide weight, recoil and trigger. The reset is a tad longer, but manageable. Same with the P9S.
The Baby Eagle CZ clone was also very fast, but the trigger was so-so.
If the Steyr M9 has a light, short reset trigger, it would be a contender just on bore height.

To those who haven't tried a P7 in rapid fire, it's pretty amazing. Recoil is straight aft, like it was comped. And you can feather the 3.5 trigger rapidly.

Shooter ability is a primary factor, but given the same shooter and a choice of guns, the specifications I've detailed will always make them faster.

[45R]

That would be my Ruger Mk II chambered in .22 :evil:

[Sprout]

How about the Tec-9 and it's "Hell Fire" trigger? ;)

[Hkmp5sd]

The trigger reset for my Tec-9 is about 5 inches. :) No rapid fire there.

[tomkatz]

My buddy and I were shooting up in the mountains near here, he was ripping off rounds with an AK so fast it sounded full auto, at the time he has never liked glocks, so I show him how to rapid fire my 17. Some hikers apparently told a ranger there were at least two fully auto weopons being fired in the gravel pit, that would be his semi auto AK and my 17. Quite a compliment to my glock, although I'm sure these hikers were anti gun idiots. My friend likes glocks a little more now......tom

[WonderNine]

With the Beretta 92 that I used to have I could empty out the 17 and 19 round mags in about two seconds.

Shooting Winchester Ranger 127gr. +P+ that fast is sure expensive though :(

[Sean Smith]

A 1911 in .38 Super would probably be ideal for really fast shooting with accuracy in a centerfire cartridge. That's why all those insane-o race guns are in .38 Super. Less recoil than a .45 ACP (since it is only 9mm +P ballistics anyway), plus the recoil impulse is different... quicker and snappier.

[sanchezero]

I can shoot most of my pistols faster than the uzi available for rent at our range.

The accuracy is about the same too :D, at least for me.

:uhoh:

[RussB]

Rob (Slavex) has the right idea. If you're not using a timer, your just BS'ing. I can shoot a .45 1911 with .20 split times, and still hit the A zone @ 7yds. My son can shoot faster (I've seen .15's) but he can't hit as much.

19 rounds in "about" 2 seconds, that's .11 split times, heck, that's world record stuff. without the timer though, who cares?

Jerry Mickulek shot 6 rounds out of a .357 Smith revolver in UNDER 1 second. Now That's fast!

[Hkmp5sd]

19 rounds in 2 seconds is faster than the cyclic rate on a M3 greasegun, MP38/40 and the Uzi. Only a little slower than the Thompson and MP5.

You guys sure have quick trigger fingers.:)

[sturmruger]

I agree with some of the above comments. I own a Steyr M40 and S40. Both are extremly FAST!! Sometimes when I am practicing emptying my gun I cannot even keep track of what shot I am on. I have a video of me shooting a clip and there are about 5 cartridges in the air. That was pretty neat!! The Steyr reset is extremly short, and is practically a SA. Good gun!!!

[Shaughn Leayme]

Some one.. (Schuemann Barrels?) figured out the cyclic rates of IPSC/USPSA shooters and many of them are above 500 rpms :what: , IIRC, so being in the same speed range of SMG is not impossible, just something that takes a lot of practice.

It isn't impossible, Now if you can do it with accuracy :D