fill me in on Norinco


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Flashpoint
February 22, 2004, 03:36 PM
I was looking through the CDNN catalog and found a shot gun I like. It's a Norinco riot gun with ghost sites. It also said Norinco was banned by executive order, does anyone know why? Also is it just the shot gun or the company in general?

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Flashpoint
February 22, 2004, 03:40 PM
If I would have read all the fine print I would have seen that all of Norinco procucts are banned, but why?

Kingson
February 22, 2004, 03:44 PM
I belive that they where selling nuke secrets to onther country that we don't like (I think Iran). So we banned all product from Norinco for 2 or 3 years (if my memery is correct).

Highland Ranger
February 22, 2004, 04:06 PM
Chinese company no?

What else do you need to know?

Buy an 870.

ninenot
February 22, 2004, 04:24 PM
NORINCO is a Red Chinese company, and like most of those, is really owned by the higher-ups in the PRC Government and their children/nieces/nephews, etc.

NORINCO got into trouble in the USA by importing and selling full-auto rifles to street gangs in Los Angeles in the mid-1990's (!!!!)

They manufacture knock-offs of various products and sell them extremely cheap. Slave labor offers some advantages, I guess.

I won't buy them because they are PRC-made and generally speaking, even beyond the fact that China is committing economic war on the USA--PRC products are not necessarily solid and reliable.

son of a gun
February 22, 2004, 04:31 PM
I belive that they where selling nuke secrets to onther country that we don't like (I think Iran). So we banned all product from Norinco for 2 or 3 years (if my memery is correct).

Norinco basically is a business owned and operated by the PRC Military, they were caught in the Clinton years trying to smuggle full-auto AK's and silencers for 1911's into USA, Clinton hushed it up (campaign contributions).

They also provided Iraq with a fiber optic anti aircraft radar system.

mrapathy2000
February 22, 2004, 05:32 PM
China North Industries Group -- NORINCO(G);

source:softwar.net-an introduction to chinese defense industry (http://www.softwar.net/pladef.html)

softwar.net has some good info on china. the website is not great to navigate and the author is a bit of a ??? on changing the text color to be more readable. the author of the site will appear on radio show coasttocoastam.com every so often.

should you be concerned about china. absolutely.

newsmax article:bush ban norinco (http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/5/27/133053.shtml)
excerpt:
NORINCO manufactures ballistic missiles, artillery, machine guns, tanks, lasers, radars, surface-to-air missiles, ammunition and land mines, to name a few.

liliysdad
February 22, 2004, 05:39 PM
Norinco guns are usually high quality, but not pretty. The 870 copies sem to be pretty solid, and I wouldnt mind having one as a truck gun.

Before everyone goes ape???? over buying PRC goods, look at everything in yout house, and tell me that nothing you own comes from China.

Justin
February 22, 2004, 06:42 PM
Norinco's products tend to be rough around the edges, but wholly servicable at very reasonable prices.

It's my understanding that quite a few bullseye and IPSC race guns are built out of Norinco 1911's.

As for all of you 'buy American or die' types out there, allow me to paraphrase the warning of Frederich Bastiat:

"When goods and services don't cross borders, armies will."

4v50 Gary
February 22, 2004, 06:58 PM
I went to a shooting range north of Beijing (and south of the Great Wall). We ask our driver to intentionally get lost on the complex as it was a gun factory.

Plenty of old lathes, milling machines and rifling machines. They make things the old fashion way and I've nothing against that. :D May they never modernize (OK, they've clone the Sig Sauer and its stampings, haven't they?) :(

whm1974
February 22, 2004, 07:32 PM
Before everyone goes ape???? over buying PRC goods, look at everything in yout house, and tell me that nothing you own comes from China.

Try to buy something NOT made in China. Very few item for sale nowdays aren't made there.

Bill Meadows

TechBrute
February 22, 2004, 07:42 PM
Before everyone goes ape???? over buying PRC goods, look at everything in yout house, and tell me that nothing you own comes from China. In a lot of instances, you don't have a choice. Try to buy a DVD player. You can choose between the ones built in China, Japan, or Taiwan. One might make the point that you should buy USA whenever possible because of it.

Oh, and you usually get what you pay for with firearms.

son of a gun
February 22, 2004, 08:55 PM
Before everyone goes ape???? over buying PRC goods, look at everything in yout house, and tell me that nothing you own comes from China.

:neener: Are you Wang Ho Lee ?http://instagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/contrib/lilly/hmm3grin2orange.gif

glocksman
February 22, 2004, 09:03 PM
Thanks to the Combloc surplus coming in, sometimes you get much more than you pay for.

My $100 Yugo SKS is fully the equal of, if not superior to, a Ruger Mini 30 in every category but weight and detachable magazines.

Other than the godawful bakelite grips, my CZ52 is one impressive pistol for $100 delivered.

Let's not forget all of the rearsenaled Mosin-Nagant bolt actions. My current favorite rifle is a M38 Nagant made in 1944. Cheap ($69 at the time), accurate enough and cheap to shoot. It's a steal.

Sometimes you get much more than you pay for if you're careful.

Flashpoint
February 22, 2004, 09:04 PM
If they weren't banded in America I would not buy one because of them being made in the PRC. Since they are banned is not buying them going to do anything other than hurt the American companys that are trying to move them off there shelf? I'm not looking for for some super high quality shotgun. Just something that I can keep as a house gun. I am starting to look a little harder at the Mossberg 500 Persuader, it's 50 dollars more than the Norinco. If I were looking to get a serious hunting gun I would be looking at good ol' made in America exclusively.

TechBrute
February 22, 2004, 09:07 PM
The rest of the discussion aside, it's really hard to beat the 500 for value. It was my first shotgun, and I still run it constantly. I've had thousands and thousands of rounds though it.

Josey
February 22, 2004, 09:15 PM
Norinco has got a great shotgun lineup. They have cloned the 870 from Remington, the 1887 and 1897 Winchester shotguns and make a hammer double. They are also making a 1897 trench gun with heat shield and bayonet lug. I buy Baikal and Norinco shotguns.

greg531mi
February 22, 2004, 10:00 PM
China has the worst Balance of Trade with the USA, their import restrictions are vast, they inslave their people, and pay them pennies a hour. Yes, they produce their guns the old fashion way, they can afford it!
When your job goes to China or Mexico, or Brazil, you will see the light....

motorep
February 22, 2004, 10:00 PM
Norinco=ChinaSports=Red Chinese Army. I met the head of China Sports a few years ago, he was a Chinese Army General.

mrapathy2000
February 22, 2004, 10:21 PM
anyone that wants a interesting read from a foreign point of view check out the book Unrestricted Warfare. pdf format of book translated (http://terrorism.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Downloads&file=index&req=getit&lid=16)

Description: "...we [China] should formally turn nonmilitary activities such as computer hacking, financial intrusion, and media propaganda into methods of warfare and form a many-stranded "combination of non-restriction" with the aim of defeating the enemy and winning victory. The book also mentions the real threat posed to such a military power as the United States by terrorist elements such as Osama bin-Ladin, and also lists "terror warfare" as one of its "varieties of warfare."

http://terrorism.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Downloads&file=index&req=viewsdownload&sid=17

http://www.terrorism.com/ The Terrorism Research Center

back during the spy plane incident it was people boycotting walmarts chinese goods that got things going and not United States Politicians phoning china.

G1FAL
February 22, 2004, 10:39 PM
Norinco basically is a business owned and operated by the PRC Military, they were caught in the Clinton years trying to smuggle full-auto AK's and silencers for 1911's into USA, Clinton hushed it up (campaign contributions).

And more often than not, they succeeded.

Sometime in 2000 (I dont remember the exact date), my squad leader come to me and asks what a good price is for an AK. I said it depended on the nation that made it, whether it was preban or not, etc., but that it really didnt matter, because they're banned in Kali (I was stationed at Camp Pendleton at the time). He asked me if $400 was a good price, with six mags, "Oh and its full auto, too". I damn near soiled my pants. Where the hell you gonna get a full-auto AK ANYWHERE in the US for that kind of money? Turns out his neighbor in LA is Mr. Mess-kin Gangbanger, and it buying these AKs off the Chinese street gangs. Mr. Gangbanger had also tried to sell him some ChiCom hand grenades and plastic explosives, too.

At some point during my sentence in KA, I remember a ChiCom freighter getting busted in LA with a bunch of AK's, Dragonov's, RPG, etc. There was a big stink over it for all of a couple days, then Klintoon managed to get everything swept under the rug.

Flashpoint
February 22, 2004, 11:28 PM
The Norinco products are off the list .....


Mossberg 500 here I come.

G1FAL
February 22, 2004, 11:34 PM
I've heard good things about their Trench Gun. Want one, but I aint payin what everybody wants for them now.

I've heard that the Norinco trench gun is a near-exact copy of the original, and that like the original, it will fire until you run out of ammo if you hold the trigger down and keep cycling the action. That to me seems kind of neat, and I'd like to have one. But like I said, I aint payin the going rate for one now.

liliysdad
February 22, 2004, 11:35 PM
Id buy a Norinco 870 before a Mossy. At least the initial design is the best.

Flashpoint
February 23, 2004, 12:12 AM
Id buy a Norinco 870 before a Mossy. At least the initial design is the best

The one I was looking at is a M37. An Ithica clone/copy

I like Ithicas, at least I really like my dad's. He bought when he was stationed in Germany in 72'. Sweet shooting gun.

liliysdad
February 23, 2004, 12:18 AM
OK, disregard all said. From what i can tell, the Ithaca copies are junk. You do know you can buy brand new Ithacas again, right?

Flashpoint
February 23, 2004, 12:32 AM
You do know you can buy brand new Ithacas again, right?

Yes, but I haven't held any. I figure that it's one of those "they don't make them like they use to" issues.

Like my great grandfathers Marlin 3030, it is twice the rifle the new ones are.

liliysdad
February 23, 2004, 01:09 AM
Actually, I have handled on of the new ones, and I think they are every bit as nice as the originals. Very, very solid guns.

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