[floorit76]

I have a growing pile of 223 brass, and just bought another "mouth to feet". I would like to get into loading. A friend is a Dillon fanatic, who is pushing me that way. However, while talking to a loader at a show (agenda) he advised me that I wouldn' t be happy with anything less than the 1050 press. That is a bit more money than I'd like to drop. The 650 looks good to me. But he said that it wouldn't have the repeatable accuracy for my Rem 700. My friend says it will be fine, the "Pro" says don't do it. Oppinions?

[NeuseRvrRat]

the 1050 will almost certainly be overkill. the 650 might still be overkill. how much do you shoot? rds/week of each cartridge....

either way, i can assure you the 650 will provide an acceptable level of "repeatable accuracy"

[atblis]

If you want to do precision rifle stuff, a single stage is a must have. I'd recommend ordering this

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/937051/rcbs-rock-chucker-supreme-master-single-stage-press-kit
+
other RCBS stuff to get it to $330 (need to stay above $300 for the rebate)

Use the $30 off $300 MidwayUSA coupon code

and then do the $50 mail in rebate
http://www.rcbs.com/pdf/RC249_RebateCoupon.pdf

For pistol, AR15 blasting ammo, etc. etc., then sure a Dillon would be nice.

[floorit76]

My 700 is a heavy barrel sps. I have a hard time calling what I do "precision shooting". But I would like the weak link to be me, not the ammo I loaded on a press not up to the job. I was supicious of the "Pro" because he doesn't want to loose any buisness.

[floorit76]

Btw. I have found a deal on a Dillon 650 with 223 dies for about $550 nib.

[rcmodel]

For a bolt action rifle?

I don't think you can reload any better ammo or not enough of it, using a good single stage press.

If you were shooting a couple thousand rounds a month in an AR-15, the Dillon would be nice.

But for precision ammo for a bolt gun, you can't improve on ammo produced on a good single-stage press.

For a first time reloader, starting with a single-stage just makes the learning curve that much less steep too.

rc

[floorit76]

The only loading I have done was shotshells on an old Mec 600. But I do have the friend that shoots ipsc, and loads thousands of rounds a year. He would be happy to teach me. So the question is, which one will turn out the better product time after time? I did just buy an AR. And the difrence in money isn't worth not being happy later. So which way do I go?

[NeuseRvrRat]

it's all about how much you plan to shoot, how much you're willing to invest in equipment, and how much time you're willing to spend at the bench to meet your shooting needs. we can't answer those questions for you, but if you answer them, then we might be able to make suggestions.

[floorit76]

I live in the sticks, and can shoot whenever.
I have a 13 y/o that will wear the ar out.
I won't want to live in front of the bench.
A couple hundred bucks either way isn't an issue.
I want to be able to produce some accurate ammo when needed.

[NeuseRvrRat]

just get a single stage and if you find that it doesn't meet your needs get a 550 or a 650. even with a 650, you'll want to have a single stage for small batches and such.

[Otto]

So which way do I go?

How many rounds a month do you plan to load?
Do you have a budget?

If you're loading 500 or more rounds a month you should consider a progressive, preferably a XL650.

For smaller volumes a single stage would do.
Most reloaders I know have both.

[floorit76]

I doubt that I load 500 every month, but I'm sure some months it will be that or more. How much savings over loaded ammo is there? 1/2, 2/3? I will need to do some remodeling downstairs to have a permanant station.

[NeuseRvrRat]

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=18835

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=238214

read those first

[floorit76]

The RCBS set looks like a heck of a deal.

[floorit76]

There is no way to put a number on how many rounds I will shoot a month. It depends alot on weather, work, etc. The only question I really need an answer to is: Will the Dillon produce as accurate rounds as the single stage? And how small of a batch is "too small" to run on a progressive?

[Lost Sheep]

My 700 is a heavy barrel sps. I have a hard time calling what I do "precision shooting". But I would like the weak link to be me, not the ammo I loaded on a press not up to the job. I was supicious of the "Pro" because he doesn't want to loose any buisness.
I would suggest that the "pro" is not very. Recommending a press clearly not right for the job is not very professional. Either that or he grossly misunderstood your needs. (That's me being kind.)

Forster is reputed to be the most accurate single stage press within a reasonable budget. For 223, you don't need the super leverage of some of the offerings (e.g. Redding's Big Boss or RCBS RockChucker), but they are certainly nice for the job. (I started out with an RCBS Jr, but traded for a RockChucker, not because I needed it, but just because I stumbled across the opportunity. I don't regret it. The press is not THAT much heavier and it is marvelously easy to operate.)

If you will be happy with 50 rounds per hour, a single stage will do very nicely. I managed that output, even while weighing each powder charge.

I now nearly triple that output with a Lee Classic Turret (superior to the Lee Deluxe Turret). If you want the convenience of continuous processing rather than batch processing, I recommend the Lee Classic Turret as the best turret on the market. There can be no doubt that it is the best auto-indexing turret on the market (because Lee makes the ONLY auto-indexing turrets on the market).

If you want to go single stage, off the top of my head,
Lee Classic Cast (the iron one, not aluminum and good leverage)
Forster Co-Ax
RCBS RockChucker
Anything Redding
Hornady

Quick-change bushings are nice, but don't really save you all that much time.

Almost every loader I know has a single stage press, no matter what others they have. That should tell you something.

Tell us more about your needs, expectations and future plans and we can advise you better.

Lost Sheep

[NeuseRvrRat]

i doubt your remington will show an accuracy difference between ammo loaded on the dillon vs. a single stage

[Otto]

The RCBS set looks like a heck of a deal.

Cabelas have the RCBS® Rock Chucker Supreme Master Reloading Kit for $250 after rebate. shipping is $5.
All you need is some calipers and a Possum Hollow trimmer and you're good to go.
http://www.cabelas.com/product/Bargain-Cave/Shooting-Gear/Reloading|/pc/105591780/c/105670080/sc/105670980/RCBS-Rock-Chucker-Supreme-Master-Reloading-Kit/1324071.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fbrowse%2Fbargain-cave-shooting-gear-reloading%2F_%2FN-1102687%2FNo-144%3FWTz_l%3DSBC%253BBRprd1324071%26WTz_st%3DGuidedNav%26WTz_stype%3DGNP%26recordsPerPage%3D48&WTz_l=SBC%3BBRprd1324071%3Bcat105670980

[dragon813gt]

You can also pick the press that falls in the middle. The Lee Classic Cast Turret press. Don't get hung up on brand names. There are a lot of quality presses on the market and they come in an myriad of shapes and colors.

You will always have a need for a single stage in your bench. Nothing wrong with starting with that and if it's not fast enough then you move up. I have two single stages set up permanently. One with a universal decapper and the other with a primer pocket swage die. Makes life simple for processing the range pickups quickly.


Brought to you by TapaTalk.

[floorit76]

223 will be the only rifle cartridge I load in any quantity. Maybe some 30/30 for dad, but that would be less than enough to make the dies worth while. I have a 45acp, that I wouldn;t mind loading for also. But Big bore stuff doesn't get used much out here on the plains where i can see houses and sheds for 10 miles either way.

[THe Dove]

I doubt that I load 500 every month, but I'm sure some months it will be that or more.

I would suggest a single stage press. You can decide on the brand/color.

The Dove

[floorit76]

Btw, I'm not made of money. I just hate to buy twice. I like to do a bunch of research, then buy what I need.

[THe Dove]

Btw, I'm not made of money. I just hate to buy twice. I like to do a bunch of research, then buy what I need.

Well amigo, read the stickies above and the posts provided on your thread, then decide what fits your needs/wants.

Good luck my friend.

The Dove

[Lost Sheep]

There is no way to put a number on how many rounds I will shoot a month. It depends alot on weather, work, etc. The only question I really need an answer to is: Will the Dillon produce as accurate rounds as the single stage? And how small of a batch is "too small" to run on a progressive?
Too small, to me, means comparing setup time to operational time. If it takes a half-hour to set up, I am going to load for at least two hours, more probably 4 or 5 just to make it worthwhile to spend the setup time. If it only takes two minutes, I might only load one box.

Setup time for my Lee Turret is less than 10 minutes. Usually closer to 5. I keep my gear stowed in toolboxes in the laundry room when not in use, so that is setting up the worktable, scale (with zeroing) and installing my powder dispenser as well as the press and dies.

Setting up my single stage takes just a little while longer, because the dies have to be adjusted each time.

Most Progressive loaders I know of keep their press set up all the time. To set up from storage conditions may involve a case feeder, bullet feeder and who knows what-all.

I can do 50 or 100 or 200 rounds at a sitting and not feel I wasted much time. Progressive users usually do 100 to 1,000 or more at a sitting. Mostly, I suspect, because they can go so much faster. (I can do 200 rounds in 90 minutes, progressive users can do 500 in that same time, depending on what exact model they have)

What really takes time for progressives is changing calibers. I can swap calibers on my turret in 2 minutes or less. Progressives require some disassembly and can take 15 to 30 minutes, depending on how much you have spent on swappable sub-assemblies.

But I suggest that for someone who is interested in accuracy, you will be ill-served by a progressive. Here's why:

You will probably be stopping the press to do some off-press processing of your cases. Primer pocket cleaning, checking case length, cleaning lube. That will slow the progressive press' output substantially.

Lost Sheep

[floorit76]

I read the stickies once before, and reread alot of it today. There is alot of "generally", and "you may" language. I had hoped there would be a more definitive answer. Doesn't sound like it. Thanks everyone for their input thought.

[Lost Sheep]

And if you get a definitive answer (like the "pro" who suggested the Dillon 1050) it will probably be wrong for you. There are so many different sets of needs, simple answers are usually off-target.

Btw, I'm not made of money. I just hate to buy twice. I like to do a bunch of research, then buy what I need.
My first advice: Read "The ABC's of Reloading", an excellent tome on the general processes of reloading. Some people have found it a little intimidating, but just remember, handloading is not rocket science. It does involve loud noises and things that go very fast, but it is safer than driving and a lot simpler than baking a souffle or changing a tire. Just follow the directions assiduously.

Let me share with you some posts and threads I think you will enjoy. So get a large mug of coffee, tea, hot chocolate, whatever you keep on hand when you read and think and read through these.

The "sticky" thread at the top of TheFiringLine's reloading forum is good, entitled, "For the New Reloader: Equipment Basics -- READ THIS FIRST "
thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=230171
www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=230171

The "sticky" thread at the top of TheHighRoad.com's reloading forum is good, entitled, "For the New Reloader: Thinking about Reloading; Equipment Basics -- READ THIS FIRST"
thehighroad.org//showthread.php?t=238214
www.thehighroad.org//showthread.php?t=238214

"Budget Beginning bench you will never outgrow for the novice handloader" was informed by my recent (July 2010) repopulation of my loading bench. It is what I would have done 35 years ago if I had known then what I know now.
rugerforum.net/reloading/29385-budget-beginning-bench-you-will-never-outgrow-novice-handloader.html
www.rugerforum.net/reloading/29385-budget-beginning-bench-you-will-never-outgrow-novice-handloader.html

and this one, titled "Interested in reloading"
rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=13543
www.rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=13543


My post, Minimalist minimal (the seventh post down)
rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=107332
www.rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=107332

Thread entitled "Newby needs help."
thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=430391
www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=430391
My post 11 is entitled "Here's my reloading setup, which I think you might want to model" November 21, 2010)
My post 13 is "10 Advices for the novice handloader" November 21, 2010)

If you think you might go for used equipment, here is some encouragement, titled "How much to start reloading....dirt cheap! "
Thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=439810
www.Thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=439810

I am looking at getting into reloading for the first time
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=658971

Just bought my first press. Needs some info tho.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=659358

Considering reloading
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=488115

Thoughts on The Lee Classic Turret Press
http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=135951

I hope you enjoy the reading. Thanks for asking our advice.

Lost Sheep

disclaimer:

I do not know you, so if my advice seems over-obvious, take into account my ignorance of your experience level. Also, other readers of all experience levels are reading.

[NeuseRvrRat]

I read the stickies once before, and reread alot of it today. There is alot of "generally", and "you may" language. I had hoped there would be a more definitive answer. Doesn't sound like it. Thanks everyone for their input thought.

a "definitive answer" is what the "professional" at the gun show gave you. would you like the same here?

it's just not that straight-forward. google, read, watch youtube videos, and repeat. you already said you like to do research, so go ahead...

[THe Dove]

I read the stickies once before, and reread alot of it today. There is alot of "generally", and "you may" language. I had hoped there would be a more definitive answer. Doesn't sound like it.

Okay, then I will add - take the info that has been supplied on this thread that you started, plus the info in the stickies. Then make a decision based on all that and come up with a plan to get started in re-loading.

I wish you luck and it is fun no matter if you use a SS or a 650, etc...

The Dove

[dragon813gt]

The only definitive answer is the one you make for yourself. Do you go to a car dealership and buy what the salesman tells you to? Figure out how much you shoot and go from there.


Brought to you by TapaTalk.

[midnattsolen]

There is nothing wrong with starting out with a good single stage press. It's a good way to break into the hobby of reloading. Much less to worry about as you perform each stage of the process individually. If you go to the "pictures of your reloading bench" thread, you will see a lot of advanced reloaders who still have a single stage press mounted alongside their progressives. You can always find a use for it down the road.

The Lee turret press may be a good compromise as it can be used as a single stage press. As you get more advanced in your reloading you can run it as a turret. The turret plates are pretty reasonable and you can leave your dies permanently set up and just switch the turret plates when you change calibers. Generally semi-auto pistols and rifles tend to burn up a lot of ammo. The turret will allow you to be somewhat productive to keep up with them. Then down the road you can invest in the Dillon if you find you need more efficiency.

As far as repeatability/accuracy are concerned I remember reading an article years ago on this subject. Ammunition was loaded on both a single stage and on a Dillon progressive. Powder charges were weighed individually for the single stage loads. The charges for the Dillon loads were thrown from a powder measure and of course the loads were "mass produced". When the loads were fired, the Dillon "mass produced" loads ended up being more accurate then the single stage reloads.

[RustyFN]

The only loading I have done was shotshells on an old Mec 600. But I do have the friend that shoots ipsc, and loads thousands of rounds a year. He would be happy to teach me. So the question is, which one will turn out the better product time after time? I did just buy an AR. And the difrence in money isn't worth not being happy later. So which way do I go?

I load 223 on a Dillon 550 and can shoot sub MOA if I do my part with a stock 16" AR. I bet I couldn't do much better if I had loaded them on a single stage. IF you plan on loading much 45 then I think you will find a single stage too slow. Having a friend with a Dillon press will also make learning on a progressive a lot easier. It's a tough choice I know. I would figure what my needs are now and then think what they might be a year from now and let that be your guide.

[Mike 27]

If you get a single stage kit you will keep the single stage even if you get a progressive. There are many things better suited for the single. I load all of my rifle on the single and a majority of my pistol on my progressive. The single stage as RC stated is the way to start up, and learn the hobby. Get in your rhythm and experiment a bit. The single by no means will be a waste of money. I would say 90% of progressive owners have at least one single stage. And the kits have all of the other small stuff to get started. Hope this helps a bit.

Mike

[Buckeyeguy525]

You have mentioned that money wasn't really an issue for you ("a couple hundred dollars either way isn't a big deal"), so why not just get both? You are prepared to drop $550 for the Dillon, just tack on another $100 and get the Lee Classic Cast single stage press. Load your .223 on the Dillon, and your Remington 700 stuff on the Lee. Thats my dream set up anyway...

[Jaxondog]

Get an RL550 and a nice single stage and you will be ready for most anything. Don't need a Cadilac to drive to the mailbox.

[HOOSIER70]

Lee turet is the way to go you can learn the basics without it auto advancing then as you learn more set it up to auto advance .

[Osageid]

One thing for sure , you will be surprised how fast you can load AND shoot 500 rounds. I shoot significantly more since reloading. I find myself shooting just so I can reload ;)

[Jaxondog]

One thing for sure , you will be surprised how fast you can load AND shoot 500 rounds. I shoot significantly more since reloading. I find myself shooting just so I can reload

That's me most the time too.

[Legion489]

I agree that the person who recommended the 1050 Dillon either misunderstood what you said or was trying to dump a press on you for their own reasons. A Dillon 1050 is a PROFESSIONAL machine, used to turn out 800 to a 1000 rounds an hour! Do you need 1000 rds/hour? Also the number of cartridges it can reload is rather limited and the shellplates/dies are some what expensive.

Yes, it CAN produce match grade ammo, but so can the Dillon 550B and 650. The US Army Palma Team uses Dillon 550s/650s for their Palma match ammo and when the US Army Team was hosting the Palma Shoot (the host team has to supply ammo for all competeing teams, both practice and match ammo) the ammo was loaded on Dillon 1050s and 650s. Yes, even at 800 rounds an hour, it takes a LONG time to crank out the several hundred thousand rounds needed just for practice! If memory serves (it's been awhile), the Dillon 1050s were being used round the clock for several weeks (nearly a month) to provide all the ammo for the various teams.

The Dutch IPSC team uses Dillon presses (I think 550s, gun ownership is EXTREMELY limited in Holland, as are reloading presses/supplies! Just getting permission to BUY a reloading press is a long drawn out process and they are not going to buy any low quality pot metal junk presses as is often recommended here!) and I can not think of any serious IPSC/three gun shooters who use anything other than Dillon, or at least will admit to another brand.

The 550B is the most popular progressive made, and can be used as a single stage (it has a manual advance) and the 550 and a RCBS ROCKCHUCKER (mine is about 40 years old and still works as good as new) will do anything you want, from .25 ACP to .50 BMG, bullet swaging, case forming, etc. Even if you get a progressive, you will always find a use for a GOOD single stage press!

When looking at presses and equipment, look at the warranty too. If the "warranty" is a so-called "two year" one, that the company isn't going to stand behind anyway, or a LIFETIME warranty that the company DOES stand behind, that should tell you something right there!

[Duckdog]

When looking at presses and equipment, look at the warranty too. If the "warranty" is a so-called "two year" one, that the company isn't going to stand behind anyway, or a LIFETIME warranty that the company DOES stand behind, that should tell you something right there!

What company doesn't stand behind their warranty??? I have not ever had to pay for any warranty work for my reloading equipment in any color I have, even if it was my fault, so do you have an example?

If I were the OP, I would get the Lee classic turret and not look back.

[FROGO207]

WELL lots of opinions so far.:scrutiny: There are several points to make here IMHO. If you want speed and not the quality (IMHO) go with a progressive, there are many good presses and blue is not the be all end all as far as that.:p You could go in the middle with a turret press and be able to run in batches to produce ammo that is as good as what a SS press will produce. I have the Lee, the RCBS, and A Lyman Spar-T turret and like them all. The last option is to get a Single Stage press that is built like a tank and hand it own to your kids. I have a Lee and a RCBS type SS press also and use them most often loading rifle ammo. The MOST IMPORTANT thing that you can do today is get your 13 year old to help you reload the ammo they will shoot. From start to finish so that they see what sweat equity you have to put into shooting the stuff. Always under your supervision until the process is foolproof for them. Anybody will "shoot the barrel off" a firearm if provided an unlimited supply of---read this--- "no sweat invested" ammo. I would also.:) With rifle ammo you have to trim the brass and check for head separations after a few reloadings along with other things you do not need to do with shot shell reloading. I think that a progressive is the ticket for mass producing straight walled handgun ammo but the extra care needed IMHO for rifle ammo it is not worth it for my peace of mind. You now see what my thoughts are with respect to MY reloading needs.YMMV

PS using the batch method I reload and shoot 35K+ rounds a year while working 45-50 hours a week at my job.:D

[floorit76]

Well, due to life in general, I had not gotten around to purchasing either type of press. But with a little nudging from my wife my family pooled all their Christmas presents for me into one. They went together and bought me a Dillon XL650 set up for 223.

[Lost Sheep]

(edited for brevity)

The 550B is the most popular progressive made, and can be used as a single stage (it has a manual advance) and the 550 and a RCBS ROCKCHUCKER (mine is about 40 years old and still works as good as new) will do anything you want, from .25 ACP to .50 BMG, bullet swaging, case forming, etc. Even if you get a progressive, you will always find a use for a GOOD single stage press!


Will a '70's vintage RockChucker do 50BMG? I thought the vertical space was a little too short?

Lost Sheep

[Lost Sheep]

Well, due to life in general, I had not gotten around to purchasing either type of press. But with a little nudging from my wife my family pooled all their Christmas presents for me into one. They went together and bought me a Dillon XL650 set up for 223.
Congratulations.

I expect you will have no shortage of ammunition as long as the components are still available. The 650 can churn out cartridges pretty darned fast.

Reviewing posts 4, 6, I suggest you review post #16 again. Re: post 21, I still see a single stage in your future, for ammo you want to make just one...at...a...time. And it's not buying twice (post 22). A Forster and Dillon are entirely different ends of the spectrum. There is little overlap in their strengths.

Is the 650 you got the one you mentioned in post #5? If so, you have a very perceptive family. Cherish them. Aw, they got got you a 650 Dillon. Cherish them anyway.

Lost Sheep

[trixter]

floorit76: you really will not save ANY money because you will shoot a LOT more. I know that doesn't help with your decision, but something to think about.

[RustyFN]

floorit76: you really will not save ANY money because you will shoot a LOT more. I know that doesn't help with your decision, but something to think about.

How do you know?

[trixter]

Really?? Seriously?? LOL LOL LOL

[RustyFN]

Really?? Seriously?? LOL LOL LOL

Yes really. Just because you may be that way doesn't mean everybody is. The price I load some calibers for I can't shoot enough to not save money. Anybody that reloads should be loading for half of what factory cost. What you do with those savings is up to you.