Caracal 9mm


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el Godfather
July 13, 2012, 08:21 PM
Dear THR
I would like to request your opinions on the quality of Caracal 9mm pistols. How do you rate it accuracy, ergonomics and reliability wise, and how does it mrasure up to Glock and Steyr M9?

Thanks

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pat701
July 13, 2012, 09:07 PM
I don't know anyone that owns one. That say's something i think.

RBid
July 13, 2012, 09:19 PM
What it says is that they're very tricky to find. :)

Everyone who I have seen reviews from says:
- 'trigger is almost as good as the PPQ trigger'
- very soft shooting/minimal felt recoil
- eats everything. No fails.
- passed NATO and German police tests
- feels good in the hand


Based on WHO reviewed it (MAC/Sturmgehwere, plouffedaddy, etc), I trusted the trigger remarks. I was skeptical about the ergonomics, though. When I finally got to hold and dry fire one (Caracal C, standard sights), I was VERY impressed. The trigger is as good as advertised. The ergonomics are better than they look. The slide profile and bore axis lens credibility to the 'soft shooting' claims.

I have also seen video of these in rapid fire, underwater.


If Caracal gets the right kind of distribution going, this may be the best pistol in the sub-$850 price range.

tekarra
July 13, 2012, 09:20 PM
Have you done a search? I recall a few posters saying good things about them.

Dreamliner787
July 13, 2012, 09:25 PM
I'm just not sure why people don't just get a Glock when most of the reviews are comparing it against a Glock. At least the Glock has a longer track record.

ExMachina
July 14, 2012, 12:55 AM
Solid gun. Well thought out design. The only comparison I'll make to a Glock is that---in my experience--the Caracal I own is better designed and better made than and Glock I have handled.

TennJed
July 14, 2012, 01:02 AM
never shot one, but have not read a bad review yet

Girodin
July 14, 2012, 01:25 AM
I don't know anyone that owns one. That say's something i think

About your acquaintances or about the gun?

Bubits has a history of designing solid guns (steyr M series and Walther PPS). This looks to be another one. At $400 it is certainly worth a look. I'm interested in a Caracal C.

nevadabob
July 14, 2012, 01:57 AM
I purchased a Caracal 9mm Compact with quick sights from Davidson's 2 months ago. It is a keeper. Best feature is its ergonomic design. Second best feature is its tame recoil. It definitely is a quality piece. I've had no problems with it.
I also have a Glock 26 and a S&W 669 9mm. I'm not a "this gun is better than that gun guy". I like the Glock and the S&W. Will be keeping them.
The biggest mystery is the Caracal price. It is definitely a bargain!

PabloJ
July 14, 2012, 01:58 AM
I think quality and ergonomics are first rate and reviews have been excellent but when it came down to it I picked Glock instead. Make sure you like the gun before you buy it because you're likely take sobering bath if you choose to move Caracal at later time. Americans like guns used by military or police and the only country they respect, support and admire in middle east is Israel.

RBid
July 14, 2012, 02:11 AM
Dreamliner,

Because it's like a Glock in terms of simplicity (28 parts), reliability, and durability. It's what a Glock would be with a better trigger, better ergonomics, lower slide profile, and lower cost.

That's a lot of wins.

I'm not trying to bash Glock. This gun is basically the next step in Glock evolution.

Water-Man
July 14, 2012, 02:13 AM
Spare parts, customer service and after-market support are still an unknown as of now.

el Godfather
July 14, 2012, 03:09 AM
I am buying one today!
Hopefully a full size one or a sub comp.

Girodin
July 14, 2012, 04:06 AM
It's what a Glock would be with a better trigger, better ergonomics, lower slide profile, and lower cost.


That is how I've described the Steyr M series to people.

This gun is basically the next step in Glock evolution.

I think the steyr really was that. Is this a further step? Part of me wants to spend the $400 to get one to find out for myself. Another part of me is strongly inclined to believe there likely isn't enough difference to justify buying a very similar pistol, 6-10 new mags, new mag pouches, and new holster(s).

Where a glock still really shines over the steyr and I'd imagine the caracal, at least for now, is aftermarket support. There are lots of holster options for a glock, for the Steyr I can get my prefered one, an RCS phantom. What exists for the caracal? Who makes mag pouches? I can get a .22 LR upper for my glocks, not for the others. I can get a $100 threaded barrel to run a can on my glocks. The stery threaded barrel cost $300!!! I didn't even pay that for one of my Steyrs. Steyr is nice enough to offer a full conversion kit to change calibers. It costs as much as you can find a whole gun for, $400. Are there threaded barrel options for the caracal. What is available in terms of sights. You can get a sub 2000 (or other carbine) that takes the same mags as your glock. I can get 33 rd mags for the glock. I know there are companies that can and will mill the slide for a RMR. Will that work with a caracal and who will do it and how much will it cost. Oh and will there be holsters for that like there is for the glock.

I do think there is WAY more available for a glock than anyone really needs. I tend to only change sights and added a threaded barrel for a can. However, the many options and wide range of equipment available is nice.

I would think the aftermarket support for the Caracal will grow. I doubt it will catch up with Glock but as long as I can get the basic things I need, good holster, mag pouches, mags, for a reasonable price that is fine. I can actually get steyr mags slightly cheaper than glock mags.

Shuler13
July 14, 2012, 06:35 AM
I don't know anyone that owns one. That say's something i think.

I own one and love it
http://img.tapatalk.com/aeede14c-3d5e-d9ee.jpg

Shuler13
July 14, 2012, 06:40 AM
The only Glock I owned was a 22 so not a great comparison with a caracal c that I own. But I do like the trigger.

I couldn't say any more than has already been said here and for 399 you wont go wrong.

PabloJ
July 14, 2012, 07:46 AM
The only Glock I owned was a 22 so not a great comparison with a caracal c that I own. But I do like the trigger.

I couldn't say any more than has already been said here and for 399 you wont go wrong.
Unless you hold an FFL the price is closer to $450. If you try to sell used one as private citizen I suspect the joy will turn into lament.

nelson133
July 14, 2012, 10:19 AM
I bought a Caracal C at the end of May. It is everything the hype said it was.It has replaced my M&Pc as my everyday carry.

Shuler13
July 14, 2012, 10:54 AM
I bought one 399 OTD. And I've seen online for $399 and there is an FFL near my who'll do transfers for $10

TennJed
July 14, 2012, 11:29 AM
I don't know anyone that owns one. That say's something i think.
I don't know anyone that owns a Korth revolver. I guess I can chalk that up as a bad gun

Girodin
July 14, 2012, 04:28 PM
Unless you hold an FFL the price is closer to $450.

There are places online selling them for $399 with free shipping. So unless you are getting absolutely screwed on the transfer fee it is not closer to $450. I pay $10 for a transfer which makes the OTD price $409. $409 is much closer to $399 than it is to $450

ColdDayInHell
July 14, 2012, 04:35 PM
This is what JJ Racaza (3rd place in Top Shot, Season 1) uses. I never heard of it until he got sponsored by them. I guess it's a really good competition pistol. It is really simple looking. http://gunnuts.net/2012/05/16/jj-racaza-officially-joins-team-caracal/

C0untZer0
July 14, 2012, 04:54 PM
IMO Boylit has compiled the most information on the Caracal:

http://caracalshooter.blogspot.com/

C0untZer0
July 14, 2012, 05:00 PM
I don't know anyone that owns one. That say's something i think.

Yes it does.

It says first of all that their priorities were marketing the pistol to the military of countries in the Middle East and not marketing the pistol to civilian shooters in the U.S.

It also says they hired the wrong people to manage their marketing and logistics in the U.S. because even when they got around to trying to get the pistol to market here - they bungled it.

What it does not say about the firearm is anything concerning the quality or functionality of the pistol.

Girodin
July 14, 2012, 06:33 PM
It also says they hired the wrong people to manage their marketing and logistics in the U.S. because even when they got around to trying to get the pistol to market here - they bungled it.

That is a pretty early declaration. They are just starting out here really. Saying the "bungled it" is like declaring a baseball game over after top of the first inning.

Furthermore, the fact that one dude in CHICAGO (not exactly the handgun owning capitol of the world) states that he doesn't know anyone with one means nothing. We nothing nothing about how many people he knows who own guns. If he didn't know anyone that owned an HK USP would that mean HK hand "bungled it" etc.

I don't know anyone who owns a Sig P938 (and I have lots of gun friends with fairly extensive collections) does mean that sig bungled the release of the P938?

C0untZer0
July 14, 2012, 07:03 PM
By any objective measure they screwed up their intro of the Caracal to the U.S.

If you want to see how a product rollout is done correctly then look at how S&W rolled out the M&P Sheild. They created hype leading up to the unveiling, and right after the product announcement, they had hundreds of the Shields delivered to gun stores all over America.

If you want to see how a product rollout is done badly, look at the Kel-Tec KSG. They hyped it and announced it at SHOTshow 2011, then they said it would be available later in 2011 - but a year later and there were probably a total of 3 of the guns in the entire country and the people who had them were asking $1,800 for them.

Ruger didn't do so great with their 1911 either. They hyped it, they had Ruger reps go to gunstores all over the U.S.A and then when people tried to buy the things, there were LONG LONG LONG waits.

Caracal showed up to SHOTshow 2010 and said their pistols would be available to the U.S. sometime in 2010 - but they never were. Then they showed up at SHOTshow 2011 and said their pistols would be available in 2011, while a few models popped up here and there - they weren't generally available. When SHOTshow 2012 rolled around and Caracal told people that the pistols were going to be available in the U.S. this year - no one was holding their breath.

When it came to their marketing and logistics chain to the U.S. they bungled it.

That has nothing to do with whether it is a good pistol or not.

I have yet to read a negative review of the Caracal.

SpodWo
July 14, 2012, 07:45 PM
I have the Caracal F. All positive - nothing negative. You can find it cheaper than a Glock and so far to me - it's better than my Glocks [I have the G19 and the G22 - 3rd Gens]. Spotty at first to get one but they have a new importer and it seems they are available. You can find them now on Buds - which generally means - you can find them several other places also. The $399.00 price point plus a reasonable FFL and free shipping do put them in at about $420.00 range. 18 round magazines times 2 gives you plenty o' rounds.

If you follow some of my other threads on the Caracal - I have stated that it is inherently a quick learn shooter. I was putting more rounds in the black the first time I picked the pistol up more so than any other pistol.

I recently did some comparison shooting with my G19, my S&W M&P and my Caracal F. The trigger on the Caracal is definitely the better of the 3. You can give a nod to the Smith on ergos, but just barely. The Caracal fits very well in my hands. Much better than the G19 with has the worse feel of all.

In 20 round shoot offs [20 Glock, 20 Caracal, repeat - 20 Glock, 20 Caracal, etc. ] I simply am a better shot with the Caracal. Less felt recoil, very low bore axis, a lot more metal rail on the frame, crisp trigger...

I am looking now to get the C model with the quick sight. I would LOVE to see the SUBC be able to be imported...

Get one. Or two....it's what the improvements to the Glock SHOULD have been - in my opinion.

Urban_Redneck
July 14, 2012, 08:41 PM
I'm at 950 rounds through my Caracal F -Zero failures. It's an easy pistol to shoot well.

I agree with the bungled marketing comment. Caracal spent huge at the SHOT Show this year, yet, we don't really see much from the traditional gun press? Odd.

IMHO, Caracal will remain on the fringe until there is an actual Caracal USA importing guns and supplying parts.

YMMV

C0untZer0
July 14, 2012, 11:40 PM
They are manufacturing a sniper rifle now, and I'm betting that they'll go on to create a 9mm SMG for tankers. There will probably be a carbine version in the states before Glock ever gets around to making one.

barnbwt
July 15, 2012, 06:51 PM
I don't have whole lot of experience with poly 9mm's, but I am interested in the Caracal as my entry into the market (the Boberg is a distant, whimsical second :o). The closest "comparable" pistols I've shot are my Five-seveN and my Pappy's Beretta .40S&W PX4. That PX4 feels fantastic in my hands, but seems to be a tad pricey for what it is. Cant seem to find them under 500$ around here...

Does anyone know how the Caracal's grip shape and angle stack up against the PX4's?

TCB

PS: The "quick" sights are kinda interesting, buy seem to be hyped more than they probably should be... They seem like a hybrid between "bead" sighting and traditional iron sights; Both sight elements are closer to the same focal plane, and move less relative to eachother due to hand motion (probably great on shotguns :)). But it seems like these traits are simply due to a reduced sight-radius, which by definition limits the ability to shoot (as) accurately. How much are 25+yard grouping affected by this, anyone know?

Cocked & Locked
July 15, 2012, 11:31 PM
I'm probably setting myself up for some flak but I have no desire to own a handgun produced in a Muslim country...regardless of how good the Caracal is reported to be.

I'd rather my $$$'s go elswhere. :scrutiny:

SpodWo
July 16, 2012, 07:14 PM
I'm probably setting myself up for some flak but I have no desire to own a handgun produced in a Muslim country

Uh wow...I used to know guys that wouldn't buy LGB trains because they were made in Germany.

Anyway..fFrom the U.S. State department website....

U.S.-UNITED ARAB EMIRATES RELATIONS

The United States has had friendly relations with the United Arab Emirates (U.A.E.) since 1971, following its formation and independence from the United Kingdom. The two countries established formal diplomatic relations in 1972. The U.A.E. plays an influential role in the Middle East, and is a key partner for the United States. The United States and the U.A.E. enjoy strong bilateral cooperation on a full range of issues including defense, non-proliferation, trade, law enforcement, energy policy, and cultural exchange. The two countries work together to promote peace and security, support economic growth, and improve educational opportunities in the region and around the world. U.A.E. ports host more U.S. Navy ships than any port outside the United States.

U.S. Assistance to the United Arab Emirates

The United States provides no foreign assistance to the U.A.E.

Bilateral Economic Relations

The prosperity of the U.A.E. is based in large part on the country's vast oil and gas reserves, and it is one of the United States’ single largest export markets in the Middle East and North Africa region. More than 750 U.S. firms operate in the country. Many U.S. companies, drawn by strong logistics and transport industries, use the U.A.E. as a regional headquarters from which to conduct business throughout the Middle East, North Africa, and parts of Asia. The U.S. and U.A.E. have entered into a Trade and Investment Framework Agreement, establishing a formal dialogue to promote increased trade and investment between the two countries.



Yah - those U.A.E. guys really aren't friendly to the U.S. of A at all, let alone the 750 U.S. companies that do business over there...

Cocked & Locked
July 16, 2012, 07:28 PM
Guess I better run out and get me a Caracal.

CmdrSlander
July 16, 2012, 10:12 PM
I wonder how much better the Caracal would have done if they had paired up with a U.S. company for imports and sold it under that company's name? (Like Springfield Armory did with the XD).

Echo
July 16, 2012, 10:48 PM
I like my Caracal F. So far I have approximately 1200 trouble free rounds through it. I used to own a Glock 17 (gen 3). Accuracy and reliability are on par with the Glock. The trigger is a little better on the Caracal. Caracal's trigger seems a little lighter, otherwise they seem relatively similar. I would say the Caracal has better ergos than Glock.

Of course the Caracal has questionable support, little to no aftermarket support, and no night sights. That said I would still choose the Caracal over the Glock. Here is a pic.http://i50.tinypic.com/28gqplw.jpg

plouffedaddy
July 17, 2012, 12:09 AM
I know this will be a very controversial comment but here goes----if I had never shot a gun and tried out all the guns I currently own (...and that's a lot of guns :D) my guess is that the Caracal F would be my pick for the one to keep.

The reason I say it that way is because I've shot Glocks for a long time and seem to shoot them well due in part to familiarity. But, the Caracal is right up there in all areas and ahead in one (trigger). Great ergos, reliable, good value, accurate, great trigger, ect...

I did the review below a few months ago and if I did it again, it would be much more enthusiastic. I put about 500-600 through both the C and F since the review and I just like these guns more and more with every round I put through them.

Caracal Review Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcILzQIObeI)

I'd like to see some aftermarket sight/part support but like CountZero said; they botched the release of these guns and the aftermarket and factory support aren't where they need to be to really capitalize on this gun's potential.

GunNut
July 17, 2012, 01:33 AM
I have owned both a Caracal C and F since early March and really love shooting both. So far I'd put them on par with my Glock's and M&P's, but with better triggers.

I also work a couple of days a week in my buddies gun store and we sell Caracal's. Have sold quite a few of them in the last couple of months and have had nothing but positive reviews from all who have bought.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v655/stmcelroy/Guns/IMG_9748.jpg

Tim the student
July 17, 2012, 03:26 AM
Maybe someone can answer a couple questions for me. I don't recall having seen these answered previously. I apologize if they have already been answered.

What kind of rifling does it have?

It ships with two mags, right?

What other pistol does it feel closest to?

Are holsters readily available for them? The only one I found after a very brief search was a Blade Tech.

What is their warranty like?

What is the worst thing you guys that own them can say about them?

I have to say, they are quite tempting at that price point.

Shuler13
July 17, 2012, 07:41 AM
It ships with two mags, right? YES


What is the worst thing you guys that own them can say about them?

I hear others complain about 4 things. Aftermarket support (which I don't care)
Plastic guide rod (hasn't bothered me)
Source (UAE: see earlier messages)
Sights: QA sights and the 2-dot sights take practice.

I honestly don't have a complaint yet 500 rounds in.

.

That's my take

RhodesianRLI
July 17, 2012, 08:39 AM
I'm probably setting myself up for some flak but I have no desire to own a handgun produced in a Muslim country...regardless of how good the Caracal is reported to be.

I'd rather my $$$'s go elswhere. :scrutiny:
I know exactly how you feel, I wouldnt have an Israeli made weapon if you paid me, bad karma. As far as the Caracal, I like it.

Cocked & Locked
July 17, 2012, 09:19 AM
Exactly. Just my preference as I posted for this reason. "I have no desire to own a handgun produced in a Muslim country."

How friendly the UAE are to the USA, the number of businesses we have there, and how much USA military we have based there has nothing to do with it.

tarosean
July 17, 2012, 11:45 AM
I'm probably setting myself up for some flak but I have no desire to own a handgun produced in a Muslim country...regardless of how good the Caracal is reported to be.

I'd rather my $$$'s go elswhere.


Unless you make your own clothes and live off the land you're a hypocrite . Doubtfull as your "online". Just about everything your touching right now is the end product of a petrochemical process. The Middle east produces most of the worlds oil. So weather you like it or not your still supporting them....

C0untZer0
July 17, 2012, 12:29 PM
I wonder how much better the Caracal would have done if they had paired up with a U.S. company for imports and sold it under that company's name? (Like Springfield Armory did with the XD).

It seems ot me that this question presupposes that measuring "how much better the Caracal would have done" is based on sales in the U.S civilian market.

You have to look at the story of how the Caracal came about to understand that it wasn't their first or primary objective to sell to U.S. civilian shooters.

The people behind this wanted to create a firearms manufacturer in the U.A.E.
They were looking at created a duty sidearm for the police and militaries of the Middle East (including their own U.A.E forces).

They did this from the ground up - they went out and got Wilhelm Bubits. They bankrolled the research and development. They bankrolled the manufacturing facilities...

IMO, there was a concious effort to create this industry within their country. So this was not just some machine shop or gun maker who would would be happy with being some U.S. gunmaker's suppiler.

Cocked & Locked said he has no desire to own a handgun produced in a Muslim country. Many muslims have no desire to own a handgun produced in a non-Muslim country. They'd rather not purchase from France, Italy or the U.S if they could purchase a sidearm from an Arab state and a Muslim country instead.

Tawazun has some significant marketing advantages when they go talk to the Secretaries of Defense and procurement people for countries like Jordan, Bahrain and other Muslim or Arab countries in the region.

They seemed to do a much better job with their intro of the Caracal to Italy than they did with their intro to the U.S. They partnered with Tanfoglio.

I don't see how they could have partnered with S&W or SA - the Caracal competes with the M&P, Walther, and XDs But they should have partnered up with someone, maybe EAA ??? (I don't know).

PabloJ
July 17, 2012, 12:35 PM
Maybe someone can answer a couple questions for me. I don't recall having seen these answered previously. I apologize if they have already been answered.

What kind of rifling does it have?

It ships with two mags, right?

What other pistol does it feel closest to?

Are holsters readily available for them? The only one I found after a very brief search was a Blade Tech.

What is their warranty like?

What is the worst thing you guys that own them can say about them?

I have to say, they are quite tempting at that price point.
There is no way to go wrong unless you try to sell one after you bought it.

Tim the student
July 17, 2012, 12:52 PM
There is no way to go wrong unless you try to sell one after you bought it.

Unless:

It has polygonal rifling.

It ships with one mag, and spares are hard to come by and expensive. 2 would do for me now, but not 1.

It feels like I am shooting a Glock. (Not hating, just not for me.)

The one Blade Tech I saw is the only holster available.

I get the one in a million lemon, and their warranty and/or CS sucks.

:D

Echo
July 17, 2012, 01:12 PM
It has traditional rifling.

Ships with two mags and they are available online for $20.

It doesn't feel like a glock; however, the trigger is relatively similar.

Quick google search and I found around four or five holsters. Not sure about availability.

Not sure why people are so concerned about resale value. It's an inexpensive $400 polymer pistol.

Quote:
There is no way to go wrong unless you try to sell one after you bought it.
Unless:

It has polygonal rifling.

It ships with one mag, and spares are hard to come by and expensive. 2 would do for me now, but not 1.

It feels like I am shooting a Glock. (Not hating, just not for me.)

The one Blade Tech I saw is the only holster available.

I get the one in a million lemon, and their warranty and/or CS sucks.

Cocked & Locked
July 17, 2012, 02:53 PM
Unless you make your own clothes and live off the land you're a hypocrite . Doubtfull as your "online". Just about everything your touching right now is the end product of a petrochemical process. The Middle east produces most of the worlds oil. So weather you like it or not your still supporting them....

"Weather"...what's the weather got to do with it.

Making one's own clothes and living off the land has nothing to do with me (personally) not wanting a handgun manufactured in a Muslim country.

The oil and the weather doesn't have anything to do with it either. I just don't have any desire for...nevermind. :banghead:

Derek Zeanah
July 17, 2012, 03:07 PM
A bunch of us got to shoot them at SHOT. Everyone was impressed with the quality, price, and how well they shot. Even the one with the weird dovetail sight.

wally
July 17, 2012, 03:27 PM
If Caracal gets the right kind of distribution going, this may be the best pistol in the sub-$850 price range.

Centerfire Systems has them for ~$400.

When your main competition is Glock its difficult to come in priced higher with a name nobody has heard of.

seed
July 17, 2012, 04:37 PM
Any word on if and when they plan to release models in .40?

Prince Yamato
July 17, 2012, 07:39 PM
When's the sub compact model coming out?

Shuler13
July 17, 2012, 09:21 PM
I read somewhere (rumor warning) this fall. We'll see. I'll be in line if that's the case.

barnbwt
July 17, 2012, 09:54 PM
IMO, there was a concious effort to create this industry within their country.

I believe UAE is looking to diversify; Dubai is trying (successfully) to become Vegas, and Qatar is trying to become an acclaimed learning/research center. The SHTF scenario on the horizon in these nations is that the oil will run out one day, or be made obsolete, so the wiser countries are trying to set up fall back strategies for when easy money is gone.

My bet is some folks want the UAE to become a regional competitor to Israel in the arms market. UAE is on better terms with many of the big players than Israel, and manufacturing high quality arms at competitive cost seems a savvy way to get some of that fat money cake. Despite the derpings of some folks, the Emirates are not stone-age fascists; they have the money and the know-how to set up a world-class operation. I say we should welcome some more competition in the international gun market, it'll only lead to better guns :)

TCB

(sorry, I can't let this slide, forgive me...)
I have no desire to own a handgun produced in a Muslim country

The saddest part of this tripe is how common it is. Last week at the LGS, a guy was picking up a Caracal he had ordered. The store owner was intrigued, held it, smiled, and was obviously impressed (hadn't seen one before). He turned the gun over, saw "UAE" and immediately frowned, shrugged and laid down the pistol. "Meh, it's all right, I guess. Don't think I'll be ordering any, though." The UAE has done right by the US more than most nations, lately. it's quite arrogant to demand they abandon their "heathen" God, too.

And we wonder why so many nations hate playing ball with us... Good thing we can get guns from upright countries like Russia :rolleyes:

*rant over*

Cocked & Locked
July 18, 2012, 12:03 AM
Tripe to you perhaps barnbwt but not to me...sorry not a fanboy here of Islam.

I'm sure the gun is great. Its just not for me for the reasons I stated. :banghead:

it's quite arrogant to demand they abandon their "heathen" God, too.

I didn't demand or even suggest it.

tarosean
July 18, 2012, 12:26 AM
"Weather"...what's the weather got to do with it.

If you're going to correct someone, or poke fun at a typo, please be sure to use correct grammar while doing so.

not wanting a handgun manufactured in a Muslim country.

Yet you own, or claim to own, Sig's and Glock's? What's the difference?

ExMachina
July 18, 2012, 12:59 AM
I have no desire to own a handgun produced in a Muslim country

So what you are saying is that the Caracal is not a good choice for narrow minded people? :D

PabloJ
July 18, 2012, 01:07 AM
I believe UAE is looking to diversify; Dubai is trying (successfully) to become Vegas, and Qatar is trying to become an acclaimed learning/research center. The SHTF scenario on the horizon in these nations is that the oil will run out one day, or be made obsolete, so the wiser countries are trying to set up fall back strategies for when easy money is gone.

My bet is some folks want the UAE to become a regional competitor to Israel in the arms market. UAE is on better terms with many of the big players than Israel, and manufacturing high quality arms at competitive cost seems a savvy way to get some of that fat money cake. Despite the derpings of some folks, the Emirates are not stone-age fascists; they have the money and the know-how to set up a world-class operation. I say we should welcome some more competition in the international gun market, it'll only lead to better guns :)

TCB

(sorry, I can't let this slide, forgive me...)


The saddest part of this tripe is how common it is. Last week at the LGS, a guy was picking up a Caracal he had ordered. The store owner was intrigued, held it, smiled, and was obviously impressed (hadn't seen one before). He turned the gun over, saw "UAE" and immediately frowned, shrugged and laid down the pistol. "Meh, it's all right, I guess. Don't think I'll be ordering any, though." The UAE has done right by the US more than most nations, lately. it's quite arrogant to demand they abandon their "heathen" God, too.

And we wonder why so many nations hate playing ball with us... Good thing we can get guns from upright countries like Russia :rolleyes:

*rant over*
What would be shocking is that he realized UAE was Middle Eastern Muslim country.:scrutiny:

el Godfather
July 18, 2012, 11:40 AM
Whats really surprising for me is that a boy here cockedlocked is constantly making derogatory comments. Not only that but he stands behind his statment over and over again repeating it. Yet the moderators of this forum have stood idle. Salute to few brave men here who have take issue with his statment. Just because he is a member since 2006 is no reason not to ban him. I thought this was the high road.

This fella should be booted from THR because here we cannot mix religious bias with the sport. If no action is taken then it means such statments are ok for gun forum.

Cocked & Locked
July 18, 2012, 11:47 AM
I don't mind the flak guys as I anticipated that. I'm not going to get into a juvenile fussing contest.

I choose not to knowingly support Islamic countries. Continue support financially or verbally as you choose.

RBid
July 18, 2012, 12:59 PM
C&L has the right to his opinion.

Personally, I have no problem supporting a staunch U.S. ally, regardless of religion. Freedom to worship as an individual chooses has historical relevance in the U.S.

I have a few friends in Dubai, which makes it easy to remember that they aren't "a Muslim country". They are a nation of individuals of varying character, who are doing the best that they know how, to be happy. It just happens that Islam is the majority.

At the end of the day, we all want laughter and love.

el Godfather
July 18, 2012, 02:12 PM
RBid
You are right, and CL is entitled to his opinion and that opinion may very well be anti Islam or Jewish or whatever. In fact, right to hate is a right so long as you are not imposing on someone else's right in pursuit to happiness or well being. People today are present who favor the attrocities comitted by many dictators around the world- fine. They are also entitled to their opinion. Really, I dont care. However, in my opinion, if we start spilling hatered or hate speach in public forums, which are completely unrelated to the topic, not only its uncalled for but it is also rude and should be shunned and discouraged so that people (members) from various ideologies and walks of life should be able to freely share and exchange information on this forum related to firearms. I do not believe CL's comments are pleasing to any American Muslim on this forum. I totally believe in freedom of speach, but not when its at the cost of harmony and tranquillity.

Shuler13
July 18, 2012, 03:08 PM
Back to the caracal. I took my C to the range again. 100 more rounds no problems. At 15 yards unsupported I don't have any problems keeping it on an 8 inch target. And with the 15 round mag, I tear through a box of WWB in a hurry. And I did it without offending anyone at the range. Not the japanese guy on my left or the mexican guy on my right. Funny how in a different era, either one of those guys could have been unfriendly toward the US. Time sure can change perspective.

RBid
July 18, 2012, 03:30 PM
el Godfather,

I respect your position, sir.


Back to the Caracal:

Want!

Wishoot
July 18, 2012, 04:43 PM
Back to the caracal. I took my C to the range again. 100 more rounds no problems. At 15 yards unsupported I don't have any problems keeping it on an 8 inch target. And with the 15 round mag, I tear through a box of WWB in a hurry. And I did it without offending anyone at the range. Not the japanese guy on my left or the mexican guy on my right. Funny how in a different era, either one of those guys could have been unfriendly toward the US. Time sure can change perspective.
How dare you try to get this thread back on track! :)

boricua9mm
July 18, 2012, 04:48 PM
I haven't shot one, but my opinions from handling are...

Rear Sight integrated with slide plate...Weird choice. Replacements will be costly, methinks.

Grip feels good.

I like the small slide release lever. I have a bad habit from shooting 1911s which causes my thumb to hit the slide lock of a lot of different pistols. I am working on correcting this, but a smaller, less obtrusive slide lock is welcome in my book.

I like how low the pistol sits in my hand. Reminds me of my P7. Recoil should be extremely tame.

The grip of the "F" is kinda long, like HS2000/XD long, which is just longer than it needs to be in my opinion. The "C" grip feels perfect, but a 3.5" barrel on this model seems a strange choice. Seems that barrel length is more the realm of sub-compacts and not compacts.

In today's market a $400 price point is a good thing. I could care less how well they've marketed the pistol. A savvy shooter will have heard about them. Hopefully they DON'T do what HS did with the XD. A new logo engraved on the side shouldn't add $200 to the shelf price. Keep 'em at $400! The only thing I think they should have done was send molds of their guns to the big holster manufacturers to garner some more immediate "support" for the CCW holders in the US.

I don't engage in Holy Wars, don't believe that all Muslims are looking to kill us, and don't think (in addition to my yearly gasoline bill) that the profits from me buying a $400 pistol is of any significant amount to a platinum Benz driving Sheikh.

Steyr's M pistols seem to be back in the market also, and the Caracal makes me look towards the Steyr guns with a refreshed eye.

el Godfather
July 18, 2012, 05:43 PM
The other day went to buy one but got double minded between the SC and F model. Any advice on which to begin with?

tobenheim
July 18, 2012, 09:34 PM
I haven't had the please of shooting one but the guys at my LGS got a hold of one and took it out to the range. They are now all true believers in this gun. I got the handle it and was impressed with the ergonomics. Not going to get rid of my SR9C but wouldn't turn one down if someone offered me one at a great price. My main concern would be after-market accessories.

Shuler13
July 18, 2012, 09:50 PM
The other day went to buy one but got double minded between the SC and F model. Any advice on which to begin with?

I wasn't aware the SC was in our market yet.

SpodWo
July 18, 2012, 09:53 PM
The SC isn't in the US market yet - it's the "C" model - Compact. Right now - the SubC isn't import legal due to "import points". I might add that the SUBC model barrel length isn't much shorter.

Here are the Stats:

Specifications
Weight
750 g (26 oz) Caracal F
700 g (25 oz) Caracal C
650 g (23 oz) Caracal SC

Length
178 mm (7.0 in) Caracal F
167 mm (6.6 in) Caracal C
160 mm (6.3 in) Caracal SC

Barrel length
104 mm (4.1 in) Caracal F
90 mm (3.5 in) Caracal C
86 mm (3.4 in) Caracal SC

Width
28 mm (1.1 in) Caracal F and C
23.5 mm (0.9 in) Caracal SC

Height
135 mm (5.3 in) Caracal F
122 mm (4.8 in) Caracal C
112 mm (4.4 in) Caracal SC

boricua9mm
July 18, 2012, 10:07 PM
From the info gathered from his other posts, the OP isn't in "our" market, he's overseas where they get all the cool stuff, and get it first :)

Shuler13
July 18, 2012, 10:11 PM
Doh. Didn't even think to look.

Okiegunner
July 18, 2012, 10:15 PM
Geez guys...Really???

I belive the OP had an initial question, and I paraphrase...

"What do you think about this pistol?"

All right, just my opinion:

1. Looks very ergonomic.

2. Kind of ugly.

3. Bubits pistol...++1

4. At some point, I will probably purchase one.

Gunner

joecil
July 18, 2012, 10:26 PM
It is on my possible to buy in the future list, just to new yet for me. Like guns in their second or third generations before I buy. Besides I have 4 different 9mm now and really not looking for another at the moment.

Tim the student
July 18, 2012, 10:35 PM
I decided I want one. Anybody wanna buy an xdm .40?

el Godfather
July 19, 2012, 03:08 AM
However, SC or F?

Why are there import restrictions on sc? Isnt it much like G26?

gregj
July 19, 2012, 02:16 PM
I recently picked up my C model with the QAS sights. Here's a few thoughts on it.

- I like the trigger a lot more than my G26. It has a better, crisper feel to it. The trigger seemed to be on par of the PPQ.

- I dont care for their implementation of the mag release. The tang sticking out on the mags could be an issue in doing a reload in a hurry, catch on something, etc. It just doesnt seem like a good idea.

- The QAS were a PITA to get sighted in. Given the very short radius, it doesnt take much of a drift change on the front sight to make a BIG impact difference on the target.

- The QAS also makes accuracy a little more difficult (to me at least). Due to the short sight radius, a less that perfect grip/sight alignment/trigger pull would result in errant shot placement. After about 100 rnds, I was starting to get used to the sights, and at 7 yrds could get a nice tight gouping.

- For CC and defensive use, the QAS might be a good idea. If you plan on using one for the range, go with the conventional sights.

- Overall fit, feel, and finish is very nice. For the price ($460 OTD) it would make a nice truck or tool box gun. It's a little bigger (barrel length and grip length) than the G26, so take that into consideration for CC.


I would have no problem CC the Caracal, but I'll still CC my Kimber Tactical Ultra II. However, the Caracal is a nice addition to the stable.

If anyone is interested, I can take some pics of the Caracal C and G26 side-by-side tonight.

tarosean
July 19, 2012, 04:27 PM
Why are there import restrictions on sc? Isnt it much like G26?

All imported handguns must meet a number of "points". Glock imports the G26 with "target grips" meeting the required points. Plus them having a base here "assembling" parts probably skirts most import laws. (?)

Basically the 1986 GCA tried to ban all the cheap pocket pistols along with machine guns.
Guns manufactured after must meet a point system. Yes, its retarded...

PabloJ
July 19, 2012, 05:00 PM
I recently picked up my C model with the QAS sights. Here's a few thoughts on it.

- I like the trigger a lot more than my G26. It has a better, crisper feel to it. The trigger seemed to be on par of the PPQ.

- I dont care for their implementation of the mag release. The tang sticking out on the mags could be an issue in doing a reload in a hurry, catch on something, etc. It just doesnt seem like a good idea.

- The QAS were a PITA to get sighted in. Given the very short radius, it doesnt take much of a drift change on the front sight to make a BIG impact difference on the target.

- The QAS also makes accuracy a little more difficult (to me at least). Due to the short sight radius, a less that perfect grip/sight alignment/trigger pull would result in errant shot placement. After about 100 rnds, I was starting to get used to the sights, and at 7 yrds could get a nice tight gouping.

- For CC and defensive use, the QAS might be a good idea. If you plan on using one for the range, go with the conventional sights.

- Overall fit, feel, and finish is very nice. For the price ($460 OTD) it would make a nice truck or tool box gun. It's a little bigger (barrel length and grip length) than the G26, so take that into consideration for CC.


I would have no problem CC the Caracal, but I'll still CC my Kimber Tactical Ultra II. However, the Caracal is a nice addition to the stable.

If anyone is interested, I can take some pics of the Caracal C and G26 side-by-side tonight.
I would assume most realize the SC will be slightly thicker version of Walther PPS. I went with Glock and have no regrets doing so. My choice was influenced by excellent Glock CS, availablity of aftermarket stuff and excellent resale value. To me there isn't farts worth difference between trigger of the Block, Steyr, and Caracal. I would term it "statistically insignificant artifact".

ExMachina
July 19, 2012, 11:43 PM
it would make a nice truck or tool box gun

:what:

the potential if these guns goes way beyond that (IMHO)

i bought my Caracal C for $390 which puts the price one step above Kel tec, however the quality of the Caracal is easily on a par with Walther/HK (both of which I've owned)

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