I need a 1911 to compete with a friend's Springer trophy match..


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Captain33036
July 14, 2012, 12:23 PM
Well, my good friend has a Springfield trophy match and I got to shoot it the other day. I have had several 1911's and have shot all of them well, but there was something really good about this model. Honestly, at a scant 7 yards, I was all in one hole. It shot as if a laser.

The sights helped, I think. Notch all black rear with a fiber optic front. Really helped get me on point.

So...now...I must...must....see what I can get to compete with this arm. Unfortunately, or fortunately, I just acquired a pair of SIGs and the Shield. Not going to trade any of those. So....the delemma.....what can I get that would be not too much money that could compete with this gun. Would not want to go over $1000, would love to stay under 800.

Some options

1. Another friend has an old Colt he might be willing to give up cheap. I could get a new slide and barrel for it and probably still be ahead.

2. A Kimber. I have had three, all accurate and 100% reliable. I like that even the custom II model has a "match" barrel and bushing....though not sure what level of match that really means. I always found the slide to frame fit very good and most of all, found that the kimbers triggers were all very consistently good. Kimber has a target model. Cost for these seems to be more competitive than most, considering the "match" barrels and bushings.

3. A Springer loaded. But then....would have to do a trigger job and replace the barrel and bushing. And...as I have looked at them and shot them...springers have been all over the map in triggers and frame fit.

4. S&W sw1911. Some people write that these are match quality out of the box, some people write that they have significant quality issues. Cannot seems to find a consensus.

5. Taurus??

For any of the above, I would be changing the sights out to match those on my friends gun.

Any advice?

Thanks
John

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Rmiller31
July 14, 2012, 12:49 PM
I just picked up a older smith 108284 unfired for under 1k and at 15 yards it was dead on. Trigger is fantastic and slide to frame fit it nice and tight. Only issue I can find is the safety issue that others have mentioned with SW 1911's that its slightly mushy and not a positive click. From my reading it seemed more of the quality issues are coming from houlton MN plant. Mine was from the spfd, MA plant before they moved it. Not to say all spfd, ma guns are flawless but it seemed quality control was better.

I've had a taurus 1911 too and I think its a great gun but its not up to the level of some of the others on your list. You get a lot of gun for the money but they can be hit or miss and in my case it left me wanting more.

my new sw1911 108284
http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/9427/1911l.jpg

2zulu1
July 14, 2012, 04:27 PM
Unsolicited endorsements like this should answer your question, it did for me.

http://forum.m1911.org/showpost.php?p=916112&postcount=16

Pilot
July 14, 2012, 04:34 PM
Colt Gold Cup National Match. Yes, the new one.

skipsan
July 14, 2012, 05:15 PM
Springfield Range Officer for $800. Advertised by SA as having equivalent accuracy as the Trophy Match and range reports from users back that up.
May need a little trigger tuning to get a trigger equivalent to a TM, but should be able to do that and still be ready to go for less than $1k.

rcmodel
July 14, 2012, 05:21 PM
+1 on the Springfield Range Officer.

rc

Sauer Grapes
July 14, 2012, 06:32 PM
+1 on the Springfield Range Officer.

rc

^^^This^^^
The Range Officer will keep up with the Trophy Match IMHO. Mine shoots lights out! Out shoots my Kimber and my Colt GCT.

cuba
July 14, 2012, 06:38 PM
The PT1911 will compete right along with the Springer Trophy Match all day long, comes with a sub 4 pound trigger, the slide is not to tight to need extensive break in period, and not to lose to compromise accuracy, will group at 1 7/8" from ransom rest @ 25 yards, and comes fitted with all the bells and whistle, for under $700.00.

shoot safe, shoot straight, and have fun
http://i900.photobucket.com/albums/ac210/Cuba1911/DSC000032.jpg

surjimmy
July 14, 2012, 08:53 PM
I bought this Yost-Bonitz off GunBroker about 3 months ago for $1000. If you go to randgfirearms.com go to his revolver section and click on his gunbroker link, you will find he is selling a Austin Behlert just a little more then $1000. I know you want to stay under that, but there is way more then $1000 worth of work. Then you would be getting a custom form one of the Old Masters. Gary is as honest as they come and I promise you won't regret it. Good Luck.

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa250/surjimmy/IMG_4114.jpg

Captain33036
July 15, 2012, 12:27 AM
Thanks for the terrific recommendations, they are very helpful.

I need to look at the Springfield RO more closely. From what I can see it has very good slide to frame got, a match barrel and target sights. The trigger still seems heavy and I am not sure if the barrel bushing is tight enough to be match grade.

It is great to know that it shoots well, but on paper it seems to have he attributes that a base Kimber has, less the sights.

The Taurus, on paper has a lot to recommend it. Supposedly match grade frame fit, hand fit, in fact, I think. Match grade barrel and bushing. Front strap checkering, perhaps. And I can get one in stainless steel. But can this gun really shoot? Really keep up with a trophy match?

The Colt gold cup is a top recommendation, but I think it is priced higher thank the trophy match....which is too high for me.

Appreciate more advice and info.

Thanks

John

skt239
July 15, 2012, 01:15 AM
Captain,

I don't think there is any hand fitting involved in the production of the PT's, someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Springfield makes some of the best production 1911's out there, it's hard for me to believe the Taurus competes in that category.

surjimmy
July 15, 2012, 01:24 AM
239, your right. He would be better off getting a Rock Island tactical over a Taurus, the Taurus 1911's from what all I have read are a hit and miss deal. I have owned a RI Tactical and can tell you it is dead on accurate. The SA does make a nice 1911 when you get into their Loaded, and RO models.

surjimmy
July 15, 2012, 01:25 AM
Double post.

Rmiller31
July 15, 2012, 01:35 AM
The Taurus really can shoot but like mentioned earlier its hit or miss and if its a miss you get to send it back to brazil.

My Taurus shot low for about 400-500 rounds and once it was broken in it was a good shooter. Nothing like my SW1911 but def a good shooter.

Match grade barrel and bushing I would agree with but slide to frame was not near higher end guns. It wasn't bad but it had a lot more play then I would have liked.

rcmodel
July 15, 2012, 01:47 AM
and I am not sure if the barrel bushing is tight enough to be match grade.It doesn't have to be tight if it shoots 2" groups at 50 yards.

And it does.

The barrel bushing fit only amounts to 20% of the accuracy potential of the gun, and can decrease reliability.

Rear vertical lock-up is at least as important, and so is rear side to side play.
Together they make up 40%.

Flat Black sights also play a large part.
Glow worm front sights like you want are not as accurate for target shooting because different lighting angles change your perception of them.
And change the zero as lighting angles change during the day.

I think you could spend more money and do far worse then the Springfield RO for a starter match gun you can learn to shoot without modifacations and hold your own with.

rc

Fuzzball
July 15, 2012, 02:12 AM
What about the Para GI45. Both the stainless and blued models have good reputation for out of the box accuracy and quality of finish/workmanship.

Fuzzball:)

cuba
July 15, 2012, 02:12 AM
Taurus PT1911 sand bag rest two 7 round mags @ 25 yards, and my PT1911 has over 18K rounds fired through it with all original stock fire controls, trigger breaks @ 3 1/2 pounds with virtually no creep.

http://i900.photobucket.com/albums/ac210/Cuba1911/DSC000022.jpg

Skylerbone
July 15, 2012, 03:04 AM
Finding a 1911 to keep up accuracy-wise with a Trophy Match is as difficult as finding a 1911 that isn't a lemon, has good sights and a good shooting owner. If you're a 3" shooter at 15 yds. offhand and your friend is a 4" shooter at that distance almost any non-defective 1911 should do the trick.

So, a few ideas: buy an RIA, send it to a smith, have the barrel welded up, a trigger job done and order an EGW barrel bushing. You'll have an $800 plain jane that is accurate and worth $400.

Buy an STI Spartan, an SA Range Officer (that comes with FO sight) or similar quality 1911 and, if you're as good a shooter as your friend, keep up just fine.

Sell anything you don't need and take surjimmy's suggestion. You'll have a 1911 to cherish, worth far more than its price suggests. Do yourself a favor and Google Austin Behlert, before someone else does.

TonyT
July 15, 2012, 08:15 AM
John,
You should also consider the Dan Wesson Pointman. I have both a SA Trophy Match and DW Pointman. I actually prefer the DW Pointman.
Tony

Captain33036
July 15, 2012, 11:02 AM
Guys

I appreciate this great advice. The Springer RO seems a very good value and consistently an on target shooter. I have looked Taurus, and have one friend who swears by his, but I'm my experience they have been hit or miss. I am surprised no one has mentioned Kimber, but that is ok, it might be time for me to explore outside of Kimber territory.

I am also thinking of shopping the used market. A local GS is coming up and the are quite a few shops on this area. I might look at used SA and then get a Kart match barrel. I have heard from a number of sources that these are top notch for building a BE gun.

Since it seems either way, I will have to do a trigger job,so buying used and installing a Kart match barrel and bushing might be the way to go. $200.

Thoughts on that?

Thanks

J

Skylerbone
July 15, 2012, 02:13 PM
Better figure $200 for the barrel, $150 to have it fit with a new bushing and $75 if you need to ship it out. The Kart will be short chambered so make sure the smith you choose reams it for correct headspace. Add $75 for a trigger job using the existing parts and you'd better be looking for a real bargain.

It might be crushing to your friend's ego if you outshot him with a $400 (secretly $900) no-name 1911 but you'd be time and money ahead to simply choose a new unaltered one in that price range. A well tuned 1911 can aid a shooter but an untuned 1911 can still shoot better than a great shooter is capable of.

Captain33036
July 15, 2012, 07:19 PM
I had been thinking I would fit the Kart barrel myself. It is not too too difficult using their install kit. So, 250 there. Then another 100 for sights perhaps.

So, all said and done....your point is well taken. All this would be about the same price as a RO. If..... I can find one.

Thanks
J

Greg528iT
July 16, 2012, 03:44 PM
http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/x349/jaggoett1/1911/2012-07-15130402.jpg

My springfield shoots better than I can.

Certaindeaf
July 16, 2012, 04:02 PM
They all will do one hole at seven yards. Get one with good sights and that's reliable and that's that.

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