[saenzrich]

So I purchased a 617 4" from Buds a few weeks ago, it was delivered 7/09, and FFL finally was able to meet me today. I arrived happy as could be but was quickly disappointed and saddened once I opened the case. I picked up this new gun and looked at the barrel and it was canted so much to the left it is unbelievable that this passed S&W "quality control"...not to mention Buds sending a very obvious defective product to a buyer. I showed it to my FFL and he could not believe it, he advised me to call Buds when they open Mon. and explain to them the situation and not do the transfer. Does any body have experience with this? What will Buds do...Send me a new, different gun...or send this off to S&W and make me wait for repair. I will not go for the second option as a new 700.00 gun should not go straight from where I buy it to the manufacture. Aside from the visibly canted barrel it had several scratches on it...I've bought used guns from gunbroker in better condition than this highly regarded S&W 617...unfortunately sounds like i got a dud...

[skidder]

I picked up this new gun and looked at the barrel and it was canted so much to the left it is unbelievable that this passed S&W "quality control"

Sorry to here of your troubles. Now....my narrow minded dogmatic opinion. ;)

The reason these companies are getting away with this crap is so many buyers don't care. There is a generation gap when it comes to DA revolvers. Many don't know the quality of the past, therefore have nothing to remember or compare it to. When I cruise the local gun stores I'm appalled at the quality on display :barf:. My last new gun was a couple of years ago, but never again. I would get my money back (if possible) and find a good quality one from yesteryear.

[huntsman]

If Bud's just drop ships how can you expect them to look at the gun before shipment? Maybe Davidsons would be the way to go?

[Guillermo]

Welcome to the world of the New Smith and Wesson

[Plastikosmd]

:cuss: O God I hate Taurus and their poor quality control, CS etc. Not like S&W, you get what you pay for....

o wait :evil:

To the OP that sucks, I'm sure SW will make it right. Having owned everything from lemon underwear to a lemon lexus, it is clear it can happen with anything!

[bikemutt]

Bud's should take care of the problem, getting hold of them may be the tough part. I have never seen a canted barrel myself, it may be of assistance to future buyers to know what to look out for, if you feel inclined to post a few pictures.

[saenzrich]

Thanks for the info....before this I never heard of drop shipping?....I have made multiple buys with Buds and all have gone A ok....this one I left with my FFL and will contact them Mon. morning....I totally didnt think of posting picks I was to upset sorry, I will try to find a link of other 617's this has happened to.

[intercooler]

Pics or it didn't happen :)

[saenzrich]

This cant in post #10 is so slight its barely noticeable. Mine was a little less than a 1/8" canted in the same direction as the one in the pic...very obvious at just a glance...this is just to give an idea....http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=446091

[TennJed]

I put the blame all on S&W. Not Bud's fault. It would be like going to your local FFL and having them order you a gun and it arrives in that shape.

[intercooler]

Can you get photos for us? That would have been the first thing I would have done.

[saenzrich]

Yeah no hard feelings to Buds they've done me good before...now I know about the drop shipping thing...

[skidder]

I'm glad you posted your problem for the world to see.
You know Smith & Wesson has a little geek employee with a mountain dew and bag of Doritos taking notes. I think you will have no problem being compensated :D.

[bikemutt]

Wow, now that I've seen one I hope I never to see another. And to think yours is even more canted. Surely the test round they fire at the factory must have to hit the target in the same lane as the shooter :(

[tinman080]

have your FFL guy send it back, it won't cost ya nuthin'...

[JohnBT]

My father bought a new 6" blue Python in 1990 and the sight was off just a hair to the left. They fixed it and the gun is still running fine.

John

[Taroman]

I have purchased a number of handguns from Buds.
They are always very specific in their instructions to state that, if the item doesn't pass inspection, do not do the transfer and they will take it back.

[Bush Pilot]

A friend of mine purchased a new 617 a few months ago and it had the exact issues your gun did. He returned it to S & W and they sent the transfer dealer a brand new gun.

[Tequila Mockingbird]

I would send it back to Smith & Wesson. About a year ago, I bought a Model 29 that had a similar problem. I called Smith & Wesson and they sent me a return label so all I had to do was box it up and take it to the nearest FedEx location. S&W paid the shipping charges and I had it back fixed in less than a week.

[kcshooter]

Not Bud's fault. But those guys will take care of it.
Your FFL was right in not doing the transfer. Bud's will take it back and replace it. Don't send it to S&W, that will take a month or better.

[Deltaboy]

Sad to hear still let your FFL ship it back to Buds and they will make it right.

[BBQLS1]

I have purchased a number of handguns from Buds.
They are always very specific in their instructions to state that, if the item doesn't pass inspection, do not do the transfer and they will take it back.

This. If you do the transfer, legally the gun is yours and you might have to send it to S&W. Though I think Buds will try to take care of you, but once the transfer is complete, it is officially a "USED" gun.

This is a S&W problem not a Buds problem though.

[XD 45acp]

My 638 has that slight cant. But, for how I use it and how bad I treat it, I don't worry about mine. S&W could do a heck of alot better on Quality control though.

[saenzrich]

Sad to hear still let your FFL ship it back to Buds and they will make it right.


Buds response.......We have received the firearm. An inspection of the returned firearm and comparison with like items in our warehouse shows that we have no better replacement in stock. I apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused you. Your account will be refunded in full in the amount of $688.94. You will receive a confirmation e-mail when our accounting department has completed processing your refund.


this will be my last purchase Through Buds

[Taroman]

So, they treated you right and you're pissed at Buds?
They didn't MAKE the freaking gun.
They don't open every box and inspect it.

Better luck in the future..

[T Bran]

Sounds like Buds was at least honest with you. S&W is the one with issues if every gun Buds had in that model has the same problem.
It is pretty infuriating to have your hopes dashed like this. Your anger is more than justified but sounds a bit misdirected.
Good luck with locating a good one.

[OARNGESI]

dont accept and send it back aslong as you never filled out the 4473 they should not have any problems exchanging it. if you have already filled out the 4473 s&w will fix it they are both still companies that try and take care of there customer.

just read your last post sounds like buds did there best to make it right

[texgunner]

I'm sorry to hear about your bad experience with Bud's and S&W. I've bought five guns and some accessories from them and not a bad experience yet.

I also have two 617s, a 4" and a 6." Both have been great guns for me.

[Stainz]

I don't see a bad experience with Bud's - they took a transferred gun back and gave you a refund. I've bought a bunch of new S&W's over the last decade - never got a defect - certainly not a canted barrel. If you had followed others early advice and called S&W (free) for an overnite return label (free) they would repair it (free) and return it to your home (free) probably within another week or so. You would soon have a better-than-new 617... a revolver that you can enjoy frugal plinking with for years to come.

I wonder if there was just a bit of 'buyer's remorse' at work here. $700 is a lot to spend on 'just' a .22 rimfire, never mind that it is just as hard to manufacture as the other K-frames - more so because of the ten holes in the cylinder. That's half what a good PC Shop gun would run! I just wonder if that didn't come into play here.

The way I see it, not only did Bud's not fail you, but neither did S&W. Sure, they may have let one make it out the door with a defect - but you didn't give S&W a shot at correcting it, either. I am not trying to be ugly to the OP - just standing up for a couple of decent companies - and a fine revolver. As my bought new 4" 617 approaches it's four year anniversary, I still have but one complaint: Why did I wait until I was sixty to get a 617??

Stainz

[Davek1977]

I don't understand being angry with Bud's in this situation. They were honest with you, rather than simply sending you another gun that would would be as equally unhappy with. I cannot fault honesty, even if the honest answer isn't the one I had hoped to hear. You are not "out" anything in this transaction. You have every penny you started with, and Buds has treated you fairly under the circumstances.

[harvester]

Sour grapes.

[ArchAngelCD]

Buds response.......

this will be my last purchase Through Buds
Why would you stop buying from Buds? They actually sent someone into the warehouse to find you an acceptable gun but all the guns on the shelf were defective. Because none were acceptable they gave you a refund instead of trying to pawn off a bad gun and you're angry with them? Really???

[kcshooter]

I'd say you have more reason to be upset with S&W than Bud's.

Can't see how Bud's did anything wrong anyway. If you went to a LGS and they had 2 on their shelf, neither of which met your expectations, would you tell them you'd never be back too?

I don't get it.


If you really want the gun, call Bud's and tell them to send you another one, and then ship it to S&W. Sure, it will take more time, but it won't cost you anything. S&W will pay for shipping both ways.

[jmorris]

Buds response....... Quote: We have received the firearm. An inspection of the returned firearm and comparison with like items in our warehouse shows that we have no better replacement in stock. I apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused you. Your account will be refunded in full in the amount of $688.94. You will receive a confirmation e-mail when our accounting department has completed processing your refund.

this will be my last purchase Through Buds I dont get it, did you want them to make you send it to S&W or what? Seems like service after the sale to me not "all sales are final".

[Propforce]

If Bud's just drop ships how can you expect them to look at the gun before shipment? Maybe Davidsons would be the way to go?

How do we know if a particular item is drop shiped or in the Bud's stock?

[Georgia45cal]

Buds did a pretty good job in customer service in my opinion.

Getting your money back for a gun purchase is rare.

[TennJed]

Your experience actually makes me want to buy MORE from buds. Not sure what else you could expect from them. Your experience shows me buds will take care if you

[bsms]

I agree with the others. Buds did right by you. And if you had accepted the gun, I suspect S&W would have done right as well.

[Plastikosmd]

I wouldnt put any blame on buds. They tried and found that their entire inventory of that smith is defective. I would have been much more upset if I got a second gun sent to me that was also just as bad. The only question, will buds send them all back to smith or sell them to someone else. That may reflect more on their business practices then this incident.
As far as smith goes, I dont know how many they shipped like this but it is a bit concerning as far as QC, junk is junk.

[BYJO4]

I think Buds was more than fair in how they handled the situation. I am also sure that S&W would have repaired the revolver with no out of pocket expense to you had they been contacted. How a gun leaves the factory with obvious defects is a good question but it happens with every manufacturer. That is why we buy from reputable sources who back up their products.

[jerryv]

i have a $750 gun in process from buds. i was told if i paid $8 insurance and gun is lost or any damage or defects are found before transfer that to have ffl return it to buds. this seemed to imply that if i didnt pay for insurance then it would be between me and ups or s&w to work it out. ???
i didnt pay this time. i did in the past.

jet guns will inspect gun if you ask them to in remarks on your order. the answer i got was that they couldnt inspect all guns but if asked they would.

i didnt ask buds about inspection.

[kcshooter]

i was told if i paid $8 insurance and gun is lost or any damage or defects are found before transfer that to have ffl return it to buds. this seemed to imply that if i didnt pay for insurance then it would be between me and ups or s&w to work it out. ??? The $8 is simply shipping insurance, in case of loss during transit. They will still take back a gun that isn't right out of the box before transfer, whether you paid shipping insurance or not.

[Pointshoot]

Well its really not possible to have an informed opinion about this. We would have to have seen photos of the problem with the gun. And then we would need clarification on what the person from Bud's meant from their reply. - - - Possibilities with the gun include > 1.the guy is really nit-picking and there's no real problem with the gun 2. the gun really isn't right and should be repaired or replaced. Possibilities with Buds include > 1. the guy is nitpicking and this gun is fine. We'll just return his money. 2. the gun isn't right, but for some reason we don't want to deal with it or can't see this obvious problem. 3. This gun has a problem but we don't have any replacements in stock or all the replacements are as bad as this one.

Can't really tell what the case may be given the information we have.

P.S. -- I've purchased more than a half dozen rifles from Buds, without a problem.

[One_Jackal]

I have had good luck with Buds Gun Shop. Every gun I have received from Buds was in good condition. Buds does ask you to pay for shipping insurance. I have no problem with paying for shipping insurance.

If you don't like the gun you received from Buds just don't accept it. Buds will either send you another gun or refund your money, just that simple.

When buying any gun online use your credit card. If things go awry you have protection one way or another through your credit card company.

[KTXdm9]

OP, I get you were disappointed with the gun, but what else do you want? You weren't happy, and you were refunded in full. Your post would make me more likely to buy from Bud's, not less.

[DylNger]

My S&W from the early 80's has it's share of problems too. It's not like problems with guns is an entirely recent development. The 629 I own is well known to get out of time and even kick the cylinder backwards leaving you trying to fire the same cartridge twice. It doesn't usually work. :)

I've never had a problem with mine although I think it might have gotten out of time the last time I fired it. The cylinder seemed to be loose when I opened it up to empty spent rounds. I didn't catch for sure if it had a problem though. But I know that model is prone to stuff like that so I've been wondering about it.

Smith & Wesson generally makes a decent product though as far as I know. I know they've had their problems and I'm not that familiar with their newer stuff. I know people have wanted the older versions of the revolver I own but I don't know if all new Smiths have problems or if it's just my particular model. But I would guess Buds would treat you right. They can afford to treat people well.

[Rollie]

S&W has changed. My 637 power port was not rifled in the power port part of the barrel, and as a result the gun key holed and accuracy was poor. My 640 PRO is a delight, except it shoots low. Normally I would file .032 off the front sight, but this has night sights. I ask S&W if they had a 1/32 higher rear sight, and they said send the gun back. They paid for the shipping both ways, and an employee to take it to the range ( where they had to discover it shoots low ), BUT DIDN'T FIX IT ! Said it was in specs. Makes me wonder why I have 6 S&W handguns.

[EmGeeGeorge]

I bought a Taurus 94 22LR NIB with a 5" barrel for just over 300 OTD.
Great shooter, 500 plus down the pipe no issues, trigger DA is heavy but smooth , SA I can shoot pie plates at 50yds consistently off hand...
It's a blued model, the stainless ones don't seem as well built...

[wkumatt]

How do we know if a particular item is drop shiped or in the Bud's stock?

It gas a little green box over to the side and says something like, "view in store"

Edit: nevermind, went and looked and I don't see that icon anymore.
Sent from my PB99400 using Tapatalk 2

[Jim K]

The one in that link doesn't look like a canted barrel but more like the left side was polished down too much. I can't tell without seeing the gun or at least seeing pictures of other areas.

Jim

[S.B.]

I ordered a Henry survival rifle for one of my sons from Bud's and came in all marred up. Needless to say we returned it immeadiately! Now you got me wondering if Buds has someting differnet going on? I know they can't open every gun to look at it but, too many going back there.
Steve

[HKGuns]

Read the Bud's response carefully. They're saying there was nothing wrong with the pistol and they're probably just fine he won't be wasting their time again. There are folks out there, believe me, that you really don't want as a customer. This "sounds" like the case here....But with the limited information it is hard to be certain. The response from Bud's is somewhat of a clue.

[Walking Dead]

Should have bought a Taurus. I figure I'd go ahead and say it since that's what the Smith guys always say in the Taurus posts.:neener:

[S.B.]

Oh boy, a lot of Buds lovers here.
Steve

[ShadowsEye]

I know they can't open every gun to look at it but, too many going back there.

I've bought 3 and haven't had to send any back.

I don't know if there are a lot of "Bud's lovers" but a lot of people, including me, have done business with the company and haven't had a problem. Also, a lot of people think Bud's did right by the OP by giving him a full refund when they couldn't satisfy him with their stock.

[Stainz]

I like Bud... and Bud Lite.

I also shop locally for firearms, although I know several folks who have used Bud's and been completely satisfied with their Taurus purchases...

Okay, I was just adding some levity. Seriously, try to support your lgs.

Stainz

PS Rollie - My 632 Pro, the .327 Magnum sister to your 640 Pro, shoots low, too... until you load it with 'real' Magnums and aim using a 'combat' sight picture as opposed to a six o'clock sight picture. With the front circle superimposed over the target bullseye, it shoots to POA at 7-10 yd. It's a design 'feature'!

[mickeyblueyes]

Just to play the devils advocate here,maybe the OP meant to say that he would no longer buy guns off the internet. perhaps he wanta gun store hands on experience.? just a thought before we stone him.

[One_Jackal]

It is time to lock this thread. The OP must be confused or inexperienced. Buds served him better than most gun shops would have. Lock it! Lock it!

[Ky Larry]

Years ago, I bought a nickle plated Moderl -29 6" from Buds. On it's first range trip, all the plating came off around the cylinder, crane, and forcing cone. Bud sent it back to S&W and I had it back in 2-3 weeks. It had the best plating job I ever saw on a S&W. Both Buds and S&W did me fair and square. I've been doing business with Bud's for almost 30 years and have had ZERO complaints.


P.S. When I sent that -29 back to S&W, I wrote them a note and asked if they still carried finger groove target grips and how much they cost. When I got the gun back, S&W had put a set of target grips in the box, no charge.

[S.B.]

OP, Best of luck with this.
Steve

[texagun]

Bud's should be commended for handling this properly. Unfortunately, their response is a telling statement on the
current state of S&W quality control:

An inspection of the returned firearm and comparison with like items in our warehouse shows that we have no better replacement in stock.

[S.B.]

I just wonder if Buds doesn't have some sort of seconds agreement with the factories?
Steve

[TennJed]

I just wonder if Buds doesn't have some sort of seconds agreement with the factories?
Steve

I would doubt it. Buds does a lot of transactions and only a very small percentage seem to include "second" quality guns.

Also not sure a gun companies lawyers would look too kindly on selling "second" guns. Not nearly enough profit in it to warrant the liability risk not to mention the under the table deals you are suggesting.

Something like what you are wondering would involve quite a large level of business risk and very little reward. Not sure anyone in the gun or business world would see it as profitable.

Does anyone here have any numbers on how many guns Buds sells? I would bet that their satisfaction rate is equal to or greater than any gun store

[S.B.]

TennJed, I beg your pardon? You mentioned the under the table transactions, not me! Speak for yourself, please.
Steve

[TennJed]

TennJed, I beg your pardon? You mentioned the under the table transactions, not me! Speak for yourself, please.
Steve
I apologize I only say that because you are implying that buds is getting second quality guns from the manufactures and selling them as new. Is that not what you are saying? If I misunderstood your post then apologize.

If you do think they may be selling seconds as new then the only way I could see that happening is buds and the gun company have a hush hush type of agreement.

Feel free though to clarify your post about second quality guns.

I have never seen a gun listed as seconds on buds

[S.B.]

TennJen, please don't put words in my mouth?
Steve

[TennJed]

TennJen, please don't put words in my mouth?
Steve
I obviously am misunderstanding your post and apologize. What do you mean by seconds agreements

I honestly am not trying to offend, I did think that is what you were saying. My apology is sincere

[wkumatt]

Slightly off topic but gun companies will sell seconds from time to time. But they are clearly marked. Check out gunenvy for scratch and dent CZ pistols.

Sent from my PB99400 using Tapatalk 2

[A Pause for the Coz]

I guess I dont understand Buds stance on the return. If it is a drop shipped gun. Why not just drop ship another one?
If they have some in their warehouse. How on earth did they get a bunch of defective revolvers?

On the good side they took it back and refunded the money. but I still have a nag thats not adding up.

I have ordered a few guns from them and had no real issues.
One issue I did have was on a Taurus 738 .380 auto.
It was sold as new with no box and only one mag.

That is what I got so no issue there. But it had obviously been used.
Price was cheap and it works fine so no big deal.

But I still wonder...... Are they getting factory seconds or factory returns and getting them out the door as new?
If some one complains they get a refund if no complaint. They get a win.
Just wondering.