[rodwha]

I shot my ROA today using Pyrodex.

I've read many accounts of being able to run it through the dishwasher (SS model). I tried that. It did nothing as far as I could tell.

I've also read accounts of easily using nothing but water. I used Dawn Power Clean.

I had a problem getting into the nipple recesses, the hammer notch, and the area between the top strap and top of barrel. And how do you clean the channel inside the nipple? I used a nylon bristle (.45) and the toothbrush like cleaning utensil that comes in the Hoppe's basic cleaning kit.

I went over it and over it and over it all again, and it's still not perfect. I've run it back through the drying cycle for now.

What do you use?

I never took out the nipples when I got it, and have no idea what that area looked like prior, and never looked down in the hammer notch.

What else should I do?

[kwhi43@kc.rr.com]

Your making a easy job way too hard. Use a pipe cleaner for the nipples.
I spend about 5 min. after a all day's shooting and clean at the range. I do
take out the nipples. Q-Tips and pipe cleaners are your friend. And water
and WD-40.

[rodwha]

It seems the bristle brush should have made easy work of the nipple recesses.

I wouldn't have thought a q-tip would have worked well...no scrubbing power. I'll give it a try.

[rodwha]

If I cannot get it perfect I stand the chance for rust to get it right?

[kwhi43@kc.rr.com]

I'm assuming your using Black Powder. It dissolves in water. Use don't have
To scrub. Now if you are using something else, I can't help you. I don't know
About anything else as I have only used black powder in the past 52 years.

[arcticap]

For nooks and crannies, I wrap different shaped pieces of wood with a patch, or even a piece of hard plastic. Either flat, round or pointy, whatever shape suits the purpose. Use elbow grease, extra patches and rub.
For the nozzle [nipple] channel, I'll soak it in solvent or alcohol and then try to swab it out with a round tooth pick. Then wipe the toothpick off and repeat as necessary.
There's commercial powder solvents that can be more effective at removing baked on Pyrodex residue, or try some stronger household cleaners like Pine Sol or Formula 409.
Maybe the citrus cleaning solvents will work too since some commercial BP solvents now include it as an ingredient.
Or switch to APP 3F powder which the residue is quite easy to remove using soapy water and a wet patch.
Ballistol offers good rust protection.
Apply some and go back after a time and see if any more residue loosens up.
Mineral oil or CLP can also be liberally applied, and the gun can be left in a plastic bag with the grips removed until you can follow up with it some more.

[rodwha]

SWMBO just so happened to have had some pipe cleaners. Wow! Much better. Still not perfect, but so much better!

How do you clean out the channel (inside) of the nipples?

[arcticap]

Soak the nipples in powder solvent or alcohol and the channel can be swabbed out with round tooth picks.

[rodwha]

So BP is really that easy to clean up?

How about 777? I intended on using it because I don't have to reduce the load (max) as I'd like to hunt with it and potentially use it to track a wounded hog, and because I read it is much less fouling.

I was given 2 lbs of Pyrodex P and 1 lb of RS. So for our getting acquainted period I'll finish those off, but I had full intentions of buying 777 while I was picking up more caps and wads, and a new capping tool.

[arcticap]

Each powder is different including the different brands of black powders.
Even the Pyrodex RS is different than P because the RS burns dirtier.

[rodwha]

Is 777 any more difficult than Pyrodex?

[mykeal]

No.

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this. There are two different types of 'fouling' that you are attempting to remove.

First, the fouling from black powder combustion - and the unburned powder residue, if any - is easily and thoroughly removed by water. It doesn't hurt anything but the wallet to add any of a number of detergents or soaps to the water. And scrubbing is not necessary; occasionally wiping the surface may be necessary, but not scrubbing. Black powder combustion fouling will be present in the bore and chambers, of course, and externally on the cylinder face, the outside of the cylinder near the front, the back of the barrel assembly and the frame around the forcing cone area.

Next is the fouling from combustion of the percussion cap materials. This is a horse of a whole different color. While the majority of it responds to water there is often some scale that needs a little brushing or scrubbing. Soap/detergent does help here but it's no magic formula. Q-tips, pipe cleaners, sabots made from wood, brushes, etc. all can be useful. But, once you've washed it down with water (with or without soap) you've removed the corrosive materials and what remains is a cosmetic issue. This fouling is, of course, in the nipple area, hammer face and the frame slot where the hammer rests.

[rodwha]

It was the crud from the caps that gave me so much of a problem then. Grrr! Using pipe cleaners I was able to get most of it. I was surprised that the bristle brush couldn't get in there well enough as that area is round.

I thought I had some sort of oil in the goodies bag my father gave me with the revolver, but alas, I was wrong. I used WD-40.

I'm surprised that Q-tips work as there's nothing scrubby about them. I used them last night mostly to help spread WD-40 around. I had to pull off lots of strands of cotton...

[kwhi43@kc.rr.com]

Twist the Q tip with your fingers as you use it. WOW! No cotton.
Always twist in the same direction tho.

[MCgunner]

I'm assuming your using Black Powder. It dissolves in water. Use don't have
To scrub. Now if you are using something else, I can't help you. I don't know
About anything else as I have only used black powder in the past 52 years.

Pyrodex cleans just like BP. It is BP, just has some sort of flame retardant to keep it from being a low explosive, way I understand it. I do know, I don't scrub my guns inside and out, just flush 'em after a good soaping and brushing with hot water from the tap. That gets the sulfur salts or whatever out. Might be a little goo around the nipple, never ever had a problem with that. I follow up the flush with WD40 after drying as I can with paper towels.

I'm not a perfectionist, am one of those "good 'nuf for gubment work" types, but I have no problems with rusty guns.

[mykeal]

Pyrodex is NOT 'bp with a flame retardant'. It's a very different material. However, you are correct in that it, or rather the combustion by-products from burning it, will clean up with plain water like bp.

[rodwha]

I'm kind of a perfectionist as long as it doesn't take a lifetime to achieve the results. More like somewhere in between I suppose good and perfect as I realize that perfect is hard to obtain and has been quite frustrating. It caused me to quit my art work.

As mykeal pointed out to me it was mostly the cap crud that was giving me grief.

[Hammerdown77]

I've found the toughest places on my 1860 Army to get clean are the back of the chambers. That's the only spot I've found a little rust (not sure how I'm going to get that rust off...).

Maybe I just haven't found the right bore brush for the job.

[arcticap]

Pyrodex is NOT 'bp with a flame retardant'. It's a very different material. However, you are correct in that it, or rather the combustion by-products from burning it, will clean up with plain water like bp.

I'm not so sure about how water soluble all of the Pyrodex by-products are. Some of the Pyrodex residue that builds up around the drum of a side lock is really tarry and can get baked on. It can take a lot of elbow grease, solvent or a brush to get it all off.
Using water only could take a very long time.
Even if the area is coated with Bore Butter it can still get caked on, and in short order it begins to harden.
It comes off but I don't know how easy it would be using water only.
It would almost be like trying to remove oil paint using plain water.
If the residue contains or produces creosote then it could contain some kind of tar oils, whether natural or not. It's a thick and wax-like substance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creosote

The build up is similar to fishblade2's black powder derringer photo except much thicker. The residue escapes through the nipple and gets deposited on the barrel flat around the drum.


http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=8263640&postcount=9

[jimrbto]

I have found one of the best cleaning "tools" to be bamboo skewers. Much stronger, longer, and can be shaped to fit the job at hand, i.e. pointed or flat.
dragon-6

[rodwha]

Cool idea jim!

[ClemBert]

Methinks that some of you who are able to "clean" your BP revolver in 5 to 15 minutes would not pass the ClemBert test. Like rodwha I'm picky. I don't go to perfection with cleaning but it might take me an hour+ to completely strip and clean a revolver. Probably 99% of you would approve of a ClemBert cleaned firearm. However, rodwha might give it the thumbs down. :scrutiny:

BTW, I don't always strip the firearm down completely to screws-n-springs (clockworks) as I might only break it down to the major components. In this instance I'll spray the clockworks with WD-40 to blast out any remaining water/moisture after an oven bake. However, when I do a complete strip I've never found any gummy residue of WD-40 that some claim will build up in the clockworks.

[kwhi43@kc.rr.com]

I want mine cleaned to perfection also. I guess I'm just fast. Been, timed shooting my 45 Colt SAA 5 shots in 1.5 seconds. When I turn the light out
I can be in bed before the room gets dark!

[Zeke/PA]

My theory is THIS:
If you want to shoot black powder, be prepared for some cleaning chores IF you value your weapon.
When I shoot my ROA I clean in a dishpan of HOT water, first removing the nipples and then scrubbing the cylinder and the barrel with a bronze brush and cleaning patches.
I follow up with a thorough OILING and my 30+years old "Blued" ROA is none the worst for wear.
An occasional "wipe down" with a "RIG" enhanced sheepskin helps.

[rodwha]

I tried the dishwasher trick to no avail. Who wouldn't prefer that?!? It's as good as having your buddy clean it for ya!

My main concern was having it sparkle so as not to worry about rusting due to powder fouling. Now that I understand that that junk in the nippler recesses is not powder reissue, but build up from the caps, which shouldn't really hurt it I figure the little hard to get spots will make for now. Hopefully they'll eventually be gone.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not Mr Clean, but I'm far from a dirt devil. So I doubt I'd have given you the thumbs down Clem.

"When I turn the light out
I can be in bed before the room gets dark!"

Now that's fast!

[rodwha]

I'm not willing to take mine apart to it's "clockworks" yet. I wanna know I can still use it without needing to take a bag full of parts to a gunsmith.

[robhof]

If you don't have a manual, you can download one for free from Ruger. It contains an exploded view of the gun and all the parts. It's not that complicated, but many B/p shooters don't break their revolvers down totally but once or twice a year, I do it a little more frequently, but I do it with all my guns(habit). If you run water through it thoroughly and use a heating method; oven on warm or hair dryer to dry it as much as possible and wd40 to displace any residual water, you should be good for quite awhile. My NAA 22 Companion hasn't been taken apart since I got it; over 5 yrs ago and it still shoots fine, I just remove grips and run water through it, a little dish soap and much more water followed by a few minutes with a compressor spray of air and then copious wd40. I do break down the snap apart parts and unscrew the nipples to keep them from seizing in place.

[rodwha]

I do have a manual. I am just afraid that something will go flying or need a certain type of tool to put back on. I've just always heard not to do that with guns.

[Malachi Leviticus Blue]

A very common error I've seen when breaking down an ROA has to do with the Pawl and Pawl spring also known as the hand. If you take the grip frame off and trigger out be sure to pull the pawl spring before you replace the pawl and trigger. Do not replace the pawl spring until after the trigger and pawl are in place. If you disregard this advise you will likely jam the pawl into the pawl spring and jack it up, but good.

[rodwha]

So leave it alone for now? :D

[Malachi Leviticus Blue]

So leave it alone for now? :D

Nah, Plow ahead forward, with a purpose, just not blind.

[ClemBert]

So leave it alone for now?

If you aren't comfortable with a clockworks breakdown then leave it alone. If you have had experience with any of the other Colt or Remington clones then you'll find the ROA to be similar if not easier to strip down then reassemble.

There really aren't any issues with springs going "boing" in 50 different directions. Watch this video: Ruger Old Army Disassembly (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFFvPIJeYRU) It is rather simple and straighforward.

[rodwha]

Thanks for the video link!
I've yet to look for proper screwdrivers. And I don't have a punch.
I didn't get the nipple wrench either, and haven't found a 3/16 nut driver yet, so I bought a 1/4 drive deep socket set to use for now.
Where is a good place to find proper screwdrivers and the punch?

[mykeal]

You can get a good set of punches from Sears or any hardware store or big box store.

Gunsmithing screwdrivers - I have two recommendations:

1) Chapman set 8900. It contains a rachet handle that is priceless when removing really stubborn screws and nipples. The bits are frangible, so that the bit will break before the screw head is damaged if the screw is stuck. Small enough that set will fit in a coat pocket (which I've never done, but it will fit in my range bag very nicely). Available from:
Midway: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/510765/chapman-model-8900-27-piece-deluxe-screwdriver-set
Brownell's: http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=4979/Product/DELUXE-GUN-SCREWDRIVER-SET
and several others.

2) Brownell's Magna-Tip. Bigger set, can be bought in many configurations. Different size handles, magnetic and non-magnetic choices, This is more of a benchtop set but can be bought in small pieces to configure a range bag set. Note they have a Ruger Single Action set consisting of a magnetic handle and 5 bits. Available only from Brownell's:http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/cid=0/k=magna+tip+screwdrivers/t=P/ksubmit=y/Products/All/search=magna_tip_screwdrivers

Neither of those is cheap, but cheap isn't the right answer. Midway has a better range of less expensive sets if $30 is just too much for a good screwdriver set (it's not, but I enjoy spending other people's money).

[robhof]

I had forgotten about the video, it's the best and actually from a Ruger rep. I've copied it and sent it to a few ROA owners I know locally. There's a separate video for dis-assembly and re-assembly. A great tutorial for even the pro's.

[rodwha]

"Midway has a better range of less expensive sets if $30 is just too much for a good screwdriver set (it's not, but I enjoy spending other people's money)."

Having used many hand tools in the HVAC (air conditioning) field I understand the value of quality tools. Not cheap, but not expensive.

Is there a certain size of punch that I will need?

I'll be venturing into Sears since it is the only place I seem to have been able to locate a 3/16 nut driver. Home Depot shows one by Klein (my favorite brand), but doesn't carry them in either of the 3 stores I visited.

[rodwha]

It appears as though there are small bits that will adjust the sights as well?

[ClemBert]

For reassembly just do the disassembly steps in reverse or if you forgot how you ended up with a bucket of parts watch this video: Ruger Old Army Reassembly (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjzzEB1236g&feature=plcp). :p

[AbitNutz]

I did destroy the pawl spring on mine once. However that is a part common to other Rugers and was easily obtainable. You can smoosh it though.

Once you take it apart and get it back together once, you'll be OK. It's a simple gun and you just have to have a flat ground screw driver so you don't damage the screw heads.

I now have the hammer and trigger shimmed on both sides the correct amount with those micro SS washers. That was very fiddly but took all the side to side slop out of the hammer and trigger. It improved the action feel greatly. At first I made it too tight and after a few rounds the B/P residue caused functioning problems. So I removed a few shims and now it's perfect.

[mykeal]

Yes, there are small bits in both sets that will handle scope and sight screws.

Punch size: 3/16" or smaller

It was mentioned in both the disassembly and reassembly videos, but it should be stressed: Keep track of where the screws came from and be sure to put them back in the same holes. They are not interchangeable.

If you decide to buy one of the Brownell sets, get a spare set of Ruger single action revolver screws at the same time. You may never need one but it sure will save on shipping if you do. They no longer mention Old Army parts but the Single Six screw set is identical.

[rodwha]

Are you saying that the left screw isn't the same as the right screw or not to confuse the screws from the bottom of the trigger guard with those under the hammer?

Single Six screws are the same? I figured it would be the Blackhawk that was the same. Isn't it built from a Blackhawk? All of the screws or the ones below the hammer (I hear it's common to lose those)?

I may just have to take it apart to see what disassembly/reassembly is all about. And probably just to make certain it is in good condition in there.

[Malachi Leviticus Blue]

Are you saying that the left screw isn't the same as the right screw or not to confuse the screws from the bottom of the trigger guard with those under the hammer?


The screws from the bottom of the trigger guard with those under the hammer

[ClemBert]

Here are the Ruger part numbers for the grip frame screws. By part number you can see which screws are the same and which are different.

Grip Frame Screw-A-Front XR01700 Blued Models
Grip Frame Screw-B-Back (2 Req’d.) XR01800 Blued Models
Grip Frame Screw-C-Bottom (2 Req’d.) XR01900 Blued Models

Grip Frame Screw-A-Front KXR01700 Stainless Models
Grip Frame Screw-B-Back (2 Req’d.) KXR01800 Stainless Models
Grip Frame Screw-C-Bottom (2 Req’d.) KXR01900 Stainless Models

Ruger Old Army Manual (http://pdf.textfiles.com/manuals/FIREARMS/ruger_oldarmy.pdf)

[788Ham]

rodwha,

I've read this whole diatribe, can't figure some of this out. You have a BP revolver, have shot it, are now wanting to clean it, BUT, you don't know how, other than putting it in the dishwasher? You've spent monies on a revolver, BP, caps, but no cleaning solvent or patches? Not able to clean this outfit, but are trusted on the range with it? I'll come back tomorrow and re-read this, might make more sense then. :uhoh:

[rodwha]

788: I read many accounts of people claiming it was as easy as putting it in the dishwasher, which didn't work for me so I cleaned it with a bore brush and a brush with soap and water. It left a lot of stuff around the nipple recesses, and some around the barrel under the top strap, which with a little help from the guys here I was able to get with pipe cleaners.

I was not familiar with cleaning a black powder weapon, though I have cleaned a few smokeless pistols.

I did not buy any cleaning solvent as I read water or soap and water was all that was necessary. I believed it would come clean easier than it did. And I do have cleaning patches, along with 2 cleaning kits (smokeless).

I'm definitely new to black powder all together, but not firearms in general, and am sorry I have given you such pause.

"...but are trusted on the range with it?"

I just freaked a little bit when I could't get it all cleaned well knowing that the residue could help create rust. I couldn't have that!

Be at ease that I'm certainly not dangerous with it as I understand common firearm safety.

[mykeal]

788Ham - One of the things we try to be on The High Road is helpful. Just a suggestion.

[J-Bar]

Where did we ever get the idea that a gun must be cleaned in a certain amount of time? Maintenance is one of the privileges of gun ownership. It is not a race, it is not a competition.

I enjoy cleaning my guns. I enjoy disassembling, examining, cleaning, polishing, lubing, and reassembly. It might take me a day or two on one revolver. So what? If you are a true gun nut, what else would you rather be doing?

Approach it as a Zen exercise. Get a piece of paper and a bunch of ziploc sandwich bags. Remove a screw. Put it in a bag and label it "Screw #1" Write down where it came from on the gun. Repeat until the gun is disassembled. On an ROA, you put a 3 penny nail in the hammer strut to maintain mainspring pressure. And the caution about the pawl plunger and spring is well noted. Go Slow. Don't force anything.

Dishwashers are for dishes. Shooters clean their guns the right way.

[ClemBert]

Dishwashers are for dishes. Shooters clean their guns the right way.

In the kitchen sink? :p

[J-Bar]

If that is where you want to do it, feel free.

I don't like digging screws out of garbage disposals or U-traps.

Go to the Dollar Store and buy a half-dozen shoe box sized plastic boxes, like you would use to store stuff in the fridge. You can disassemble each revolver into on box, it keeps the parts from getting mixed.

I work in the Food Safety and Inspection Service. I don't care to have solvents and shooting residues where my food is prepared, or where my eating utensils are cleaned. You can clean them wherever you want. It's your gun and your gut.

[AbitNutz]

For after most shooting sessions I don't dissemble the whole gun. I remove the cylinder and nipples and do exactly what I have said before.

Remove the grips and cylinder and nipples, spray and run a brush through the barrel and cylinder a few times and then drop it in the dishwasher.

It comes out 98% and I oil it and put it away. A couple of times and I disassemble and take a brass brush to it.

[jeepnik]

For BP revolvers, I remove the grips, pull the cylinder and remove the nipples and yes it goes in the diswasher. I started pulling the nipples after a little rust made removing a damaged one a chore. The nipples are just soaked in soapy water and cleaned with a pipe cleaner. After the "dry" cycle let it cool down and lube and reassemble. All total, maybe ten or fifteen minutes or work, and most of that's making sure the nipples are clean.

[MCgunner]

I use dish soap to brush with after getting it good and wet. Then, flush it clean. I don't think I noted that in my post. Also, I use only the hot tap water, dries quicker that way.

Pyrodex is NOT 'bp with a flame retardant'.

Seems to be some argument on that. I really don't now, but like you say, it cleans like BP. It also smells like BP, booms like BP, if it quacks like a duck.....well, .....:D

For BP revolvers, I remove the grips, pull the cylinder and remove the nipples and yes it goes in the diswasher. I started pulling the nipples after a little rust made removing a damaged one a chore. The nipples are just soaked in soapy water and cleaned with a pipe cleaner. After the "dry" cycle let it cool down and lube and reassemble. All total, maybe ten or fifteen minutes or work, and most of that's making sure the nipples are clean.

Do you do your blued guns this way? I've done a stainless ROA this way, but have always been a little reticent to do it with a blued gun. Wondering if it's hurt a blued gun to put it in the dish washer? Sure is easier. :D

Oh, BTW, I pull the nipples occasionally, never have a problem doing that. I grease 'em pretty good on installation.

[AbitNutz]

One thing is that put anti-seize on the the nipple threads. Either the bronze or silver works great. Just be careful as it's a little messy.

[dprice3844444]

did ya use dish soap or straight water? did you take the grips off,pop out the cylinder and put it in the utencil tray?always works for me.

[The-Reaver]

Learned this from my dad.

Tooth brush ( Gun cleaning type ) Hot hot water with some dish soap. Soak and scrub like crazy. Every crack and crevice. Then As I'm cleaning it I put on a few cups of water to boil. Once it comes to a boil I'm pretty much done scrubbing. I drain the water, and let the firearm and cylinder sit in the sink. I then pour the boiling water onto it ( This speeds up evaporation time ) and set it all laid out on a rag or dish cloth to dry, when its done drying I piece her back together and load her back up.

[rodwha]

dprice: Indeed I did use dish soap. I took the cylinder out, soaked the nipples in a small bowl of soap, and put the base pin, loading lever, and ram in the silverware tray. I couldn't tell that anything happened.

[NineMilePete]

I just discovered an new cleaning tool to add to my arsenal. I've been using small, plastic handled dental picks ( the ones for tight places). They work perfect for cleaning out the nipple channels.