Applying for Handgun Ownership


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dak0ta
July 19, 2012, 01:10 AM
Well fellow Americans, here in Canada, we don't have a 2nd Amendment, so owning a gun isn't a right. I had my non-restricted license that allowed me to own rifles and shotguns. Didn't figure I need my restricted license. Then YOU GUYS started talking about all your AR-15 platforms and handguns and made me jealous. So I took the restricted test today and did well. 98% on the written, and 100% on the practical firearms manipulation part. Sent off my application to the government, and the waiting process begins.

Now remember that here in Canada, we have so absurd laws like 10 rd magazine limits for handguns and 5! round limits on all centrefire semi-automatic rifles. I can live with the handgun part, but jeez.. if I buy a Glock 17, I'd like to have 17 rounds of 9mm Luger, not just 10. Hence, I'm leaning towards a 1911 because it was designed to hold 7 rounds for .45 ACP, hence I don't feel 'limited' in terms of capacity by the stupid law. Also, an 'extended' 1911 holds 9 or 10 anyways :) But then there's the Glock 21.. and S&W M&P 45.. My bank account is going to take a huge hit.. *sigh*

See what you have done THR!!!!

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Warp
July 19, 2012, 01:41 AM
What I wonder is...what will you do with that handgun? (other than enjoy it and shoot it at the range like everybody else, I understand, just asking from a strictly utilitarian/practical perspective)

To me, personally, 95% of the usefulness of a handgun is the ability to take it with you on your person (usually concealed).

DefiantDad
July 19, 2012, 01:47 AM
10 round pistol mags is not just for Canada. We have them in some States too. And I think in some other States, you even have to have some kind of device to make it a REAL HASSLE to unlock and release your long-gun magazine.

17+1 or 10+1 doesn't make much difference if the target isn't hit. So, decide which caliber you shoot best with, instead of just going with more gunpowder, would be how I would go about this decision.

Warp
July 19, 2012, 01:49 AM
10 round pistol mags is not just for Canada. We have them in some States too. And I think in some other States, you even have to have some kind of device to make it a REAL HASSLE to unlock and release your long-gun magazine.

Yes, there are a few states with 10 magazine restrictions. We even have states that require a license to purchase a handgun. Not the norm, though.

dak0ta
July 19, 2012, 01:59 AM
There's concealed carry here, but it's rare. Like 1 in a million for a civilian. LE is different.

You need an Authorization to transport if you take it out of your house to the range or comp. Government needs to know where the handgun or AR is at all times.

I'll probably just shoot targets, steel, and maybe competition if I get good enough.

I'm really torn between what to get. I love JMB and his 1911 and Hi Power.. then there are the new polymer pistols like Glock which are super reliable. Always been a blued steel/wood guy, but the advantages of Glock and their tenifer coated barrels and durability really are appealing. Especially since they are real affordable compared to buying a 1911 that is reliable. We can get Norinco 1911's for $350 shipped here, and they are forged and decently machined. For $150 you can get a smith to make it run like a domestic 1911. But I just can't get past not supporting domestic manufacturers (domestic as in you Americans haha).

Is there a big deal between Striker fired pistols and external hammer pistols? And what about single action vs double action semi-autos? Sig Sauer is nice too.

I'm a Southpaw too, so something with ambi controls is nice. Or something that isn't too difficult to operate the controls with the left hand.

This is more of which one to get FIRST. The others will come afterwards! So I guess, what is easiest to learn and maintain for a total handgun newbie?

Also is the .40 S&W the happy medium betwen 9 and .45?

DefiantDad
July 19, 2012, 02:09 AM
I had to make that sort of decision not too long ago. First things first, I decided I am going to get a Glock, for sure. I would get a Glock sooner or later anyway even if I got any other gun. So, why not get it first.

The second gun was a harder decision. All in all, I would say it was more that I was sold the gun by the store, than me picking it, and it is the Beretta 92. The only decision I had to make was, 1913 rail or not. So I picked rail, and thus it is the Beretta 92A1.

The only other 9mm I might have bought would be the Sig Sauer. But I didn't.

The Glock (I got the 19) is nice. Feels handy.

The Beretta 92A1 feels much bulkier, but sturdier and more reliable, than the Glock. It is also a battle weapon trusted by soldiers everywhere. The Glock is trusted by LEOs everywhere.

The Beretta is easier to field strip. The Glock is not THAT much harder to field strip but the Beretta is VERY easy to just press a button and release the slide and clean the gun. The 92A1 makes it even easier than the 92FS. With the Glock you need to hold down two latches with two fingers while pulling the slide back a bit. I hardly ever get it right the first time. The Beretta is a no brainer.

So, that's all the advice I can share, since I don't have any other handgun. And my opinion is mostly that from a new gun owner standpoint.

Oh, Glock has no safety. Rack the slide and you are good to go. Beretta has a safety (which you can leave turned on or off as you like); the Beretta safety acts as a decocker so you don't HAVE to pull the trigger on an empty chamber like the Glock.

toivo
July 19, 2012, 02:26 AM
If you want a centerfire handgun that isn't "limited," think about a Glock 26 (10+1 standard capacity) or a SIG P239 (8+1).

http://us.glock.com/products/model/g26gen4

http://sigsauer.com/CatalogProductDetails/p239.aspx

The Glock is a polymer-framed striker-fired subcompact. The SIG is an alloy-framed hammer-fired double-action/single-action compact. I have both of them, and I like them very much. The SIG is heavier but more comfortable to shoot.

Warp
July 19, 2012, 02:35 AM
I don't know that I would want to buy a sub compact like a Glock 26 when I couldn't even carry it. That compact size doesn't seem like it would have any advantage, only disadvantage.

I'd consider a Glock 30 if wanting an un "limited" model, personally.

dak0ta
July 19, 2012, 02:41 AM
For Glocks, I'd just get a full size. 17, 21.

toivo
July 19, 2012, 03:02 AM
For Glocks, I'd just get a full size. 17, 21.

I had a Glock 19 for a while, but I live in one of those 10-round states, and it just irked me to have a gun with a 15-round capacity that I could only use 10-round mags in. So I sold it. We're grandfathered on older guns and mags, so I have a couple of CZ-82s that hold 12+1. That will have to do. :rolleyes:

dak0ta
July 19, 2012, 04:50 AM
I read somehwere that 40S&W mags by Glock can hold 9mm Luger, is that true? I think you can hold more than 10 that way.

ATBackPackin
July 19, 2012, 08:24 AM
You need an Authorization to transport if you take it out of your house to the range or comp. Government needs to know where the handgun or AR is at all times.

I did not know this. Besides being ridiculous, it sounds like a huge pain in the rump.

hso
July 19, 2012, 08:50 AM
I would think that a magazine restriction would be a minor issue compared to pointability, accuracy, reliability and all those other "ility" issues.

There are plenty of poly pistols to choose from, as well as steel and alloy. Just get what you've always wanted and go from there.

Remllez
July 19, 2012, 09:04 AM
Is there a handgun barrel length restriction in Canada? Are Canadian LE's allowed high capacity mags? If you live out in the country can you step out on your back porch and shoot at a gong in the backyard? Can you carry a handgun on your hip if not concealed in public or out hunting?

Sorry for all the questions but I had no idea guns in general were so restricted by your government. It seems like they're afraid of their citizens or they want their citizens to fear them!

The_Armed_Therapist
July 19, 2012, 11:41 AM
I'd never really thought about how mag limits would alter the purchasing behaviors of gun-owners with regards to caliber. Very interesting...

aliveisalive
July 19, 2012, 11:45 AM
I agree with HSO... I'd go with a full size for target shooting and not worry about a 10 round limit. Then again, I also have a Kahr cw9 that I use stricltly for target work and its made for carry.... All guns are fun I say! =D

Snag
July 19, 2012, 12:25 PM
Nice scores on the tests. I hope you get approved.

.....in some other States, you even have to have some kind of device to make it a REAL HASSLE to unlock and release your long-gun magazine.

Yes.....in California of course. I'm not familiar with all the intricacies but suffice it to say you pretty much can't have an AR unless it's got a bullet button mag release. Big reason why I'll be buying an M1A instead.

tomrkba
July 19, 2012, 12:34 PM
You have many options without resorting to reduced capacity magazines.

Browning Hi-Power in four-tay
SIG P220, 239, 232
Glock 26, 27, 29, 30, etc

chris in va
July 19, 2012, 04:08 PM
I heard that too, barrels had to be a minimum length...something like 5".

I don't think you could go wrong with a CZ75b.

DefiantDad
July 19, 2012, 04:41 PM
I did not know this. Besides being ridiculous, it sounds like a huge pain in the rump.
I agree. I was surprised when I saw that. It almost makes the whole thing moot, which might be the point.

DefiantDad
July 19, 2012, 04:43 PM
Is there a handgun barrel length restriction in Canada? Are Canadian LE's allowed high capacity mags? If you live out in the country can you step out on your back porch and shoot at a gong in the backyard? Can you carry a handgun on your hip if not concealed in public or out hunting?

Sorry for all the questions but I had no idea guns in general were so restricted by your government. It seems like they're afraid of their citizens or they want their citizens to fear them!
We have it very good in the United States (of America).

My UK and Australian friends have hardly a clue. They think it was fantastic that their countries outlawed all citizen-owned firearms.

DefiantDad
July 19, 2012, 04:45 PM
Nice scores on the tests. I hope you get approved.



Yes.....in California of course. I'm not familiar with all the intricacies but suffice it to say you pretty much can't have an AR unless it's got a bullet button mag release. Big reason why I'll be buying an M1A instead.
Not to pull this off too much on a tangent but (and I don't live in CA), why would a M1A change the situation? Doesn't the M1A also use a detachable magazine?

smalls
July 19, 2012, 04:56 PM
Remllez:

Their barrel length must be 4.15 inches or longer. They have no way of carrying a sidearm, unless you're one of the extremely lucky people who have a CCW. I think I read somewhere that there was less than 10 people in the entire country who have one.

I was visiting my dad up in Canada, and we were hanging out with a bunch of his hunting buddies. Concealed carry came up, and they were all amazed that I had my CPL, and asked a bunch of questions. Made me grateful that I live here, now.

Shear_stress
July 19, 2012, 05:06 PM
To the OP, congrats on your passing your tests!

It's funny you bring this up because I just finished the Canadian Restricted Firearms Training Course in Quebec (where they call it the CCSMAFAR) and took both tests as well. The class was actually pretty informative and well taught. I didn't really know what to expect for the practical part of the class, but they had actual guns we could play with whenever there was a break (a Ruger Single-Six, Ruger Security Six, an Uberti of some kind, Browning High Power, S&W K22, Norinco 1911, Glock 17 and a Norinco knock-off of a SIG P226.)

As an American, it was an interesting experience--I'll probably start a thread on it when I get a minute.

ku4hx
July 19, 2012, 05:20 PM
Buy lots of magazines and practice, practice, practice.

Some of my most very favorite guns have 10 round standard magazines, or less, and I never feel unprotected carrying one: Glocks 26, 27 and 30SF. My 1911 is less than 10 rounds as is my Ruger KP90.

It's nice to have hi-cap magazines, but they are not a necessity to be fully prepared. Training and practice makes you a formidable foe, not the ability to fill the air with lead. I'm a marksmanship kind of guy and not a spray and pray sort by any stretch.

bbuddtec
July 19, 2012, 06:50 PM
In NY, a 10- round state, I gravitated toward G21 in .45 for my first... I figured they may as well be big rounds, if I can only have 11 onboard :)

...and yes, I had to have a judge-issued permit to buy it, folks.

dak0ta
July 19, 2012, 06:52 PM
Hey guys,

Minimum barrel length is 4.5'' otherwise the handgun becomes prohibited. No hunting with handguns either.

I think I am happy with the Glock 17 or 19. I think for the price new, you get a pretty affordable, well built, reliable handgun with 3 mags (Gen 4). It is the choice of LE around the world so it does have a track record. It's rugged and can take a beating. I think it might be a good starter in 9x19.

Shear_stress
July 19, 2012, 07:45 PM
Minimum barrel length is 4.5'' otherwise the handgun becomes prohibited. No hunting with handguns either.

I think I am happy with the Glock 17 or 19. I think for the price new, you get a pretty affordable, well built, reliable handgun with 3 mags (Gen 4). It is the choice of LE around the world so it does have a track record. It's rugged and can take a beating. I think it might be a good starter in 9x19.

The Glock is a solid choice. You might look for a handgun for which a .22LR conversion kit is available (such as the one made for the Glock by Advantage Arms.) A kit won't require any more paperwork but will allow you plenty of cheap practice on the same platform.

BTW: prohibited handguns have a barrel equal to or less than 105mm (4.13 inches)

splattergun
July 19, 2012, 08:05 PM
dak0ta, I am sorry you have to go through all that trouble to exercise your natural right to protect yourself, which is the root, heart and soul of the 2nd Amendment.

I want to take this opportunity to publicly express my gratitude for my late mother's foresight in moving to Montana from Alberta in 1947 and becoming a US citizen. She taught her 9 children that our Constitution, particularly the Bill of Rights, are something special.

Best of luck in your permit acquisition, fellow American.

dak0ta
July 19, 2012, 08:14 PM
Unfortunately I can't protect myself with the handgun cause we don't have Castle doctrine in Canada. If we use force to defend ourselves, then we go to jail and the criminal does less time than us. There was a case where a man in Alberta chased a robber who stole his ATV down the road. He fired 2 rounds from his shotgun and wounded the robber. He was sentenced to jail and the prisoner less time. What's the matter with this? The new Conservative government wants to leave Canadians less dependent on the government, so one of the new things trying to get passed is a more defined definition in self-defense and home defense. Sort of getting towards 'castle doctrine'.

Glock seems really cool. The tenifer coating on the barrel seems like a good attribute. Are all metal parts coated in this stuff?

DefiantDad
July 19, 2012, 08:20 PM
Unfortunately I can't protect myself with the handgun cause we don't have Castle doctrine in Canada. If we use force to defend ourselves, then we go to jail and the criminal does less time than us. There was a case where a man in Alberta chased a robber who stole his ATV down the road. He fired 2 rounds from his shotgun and wounded the robber. He was sentenced to jail and the prisoner less time. What's the matter with this? The new Conservative government wants to leave Canadians less dependent on the government, so one of the new things trying to get passed is a more defined definition in self-defense and home defense. Sort of getting towards 'castle doctrine'.

Glock seems really cool. The tenifer coating on the barrel seems like a good attribute. Are all metal parts coated in this stuff?
Wait. In Canada, if the bad guy comes armed into your home, with a knife or gun, and you shoot him dead with your gun, are you STILL going to jail?

(In the case you quoted, I think chasing the bad guy is a totally different thing; property theft is not necessarily "life threatening" but there could be grey areas -- e.g., what if the bad guy was stealing drugs you need for you or your family to remain alive, such as the last few bottles of insulin for someone diabetic, while there is a nationwide shortage? Things like that).

DefiantDad
July 19, 2012, 08:23 PM
dak0ta, I am sorry you have to go through all that trouble to exercise your natural right to protect yourself, which is the root, heart and soul of the 2nd Amendment.

I want to take this opportunity to publicly express my gratitude for my late mother's foresight in moving to Montana from Alberta in 1947 and becoming a US citizen. She taught her 9 children that our Constitution, particularly the Bill of Rights, are something special.

Best of luck in your permit acquisition, fellow American.
Funny (in a sad sort of way) thing is that a number of Americans are moving TO Canada (or other countries) and in fact relinquishing their citizenship. But that's not the subject of this thread (tangentially related to RKBA in Canada).

dak0ta
July 19, 2012, 08:42 PM
Well if there is without a reasonable doubt that your life was in danger, and you killed your assailant, then you might be okay (maybe). But say even if they had a knife but hadn't attacked (yet) and you shot them preemptively before you allowed the presence of a pistol to make them change their mind and leave, then you're in trouble.

DefiantDad
July 19, 2012, 08:50 PM
Do the laws change (significantly) from provinces or is this basically nationwide and the same everywhere?

dak0ta
July 19, 2012, 09:19 PM
Nationwide I believe. I guess you have to time the assault so that just as you are going to get shot or stabbed, you quick draw and shoot the assailant, all the while getting it on tape for court :)

razorback2003
July 19, 2012, 10:27 PM
Are you interested in IDPA?

If so, good IDPA guns are the Glock and Smith and Wesson M&P. Try before you buy. Also see what fits your hand best. I like 9mm because it is the cheapest to shoot.

Also, you might want to look at a Smith and Wesson 686 357 mag or a Ruger GP100. Then you don't have to bend down on the floor to pick up your brass if you get into reloading. You can shoot 38 special or 357 out of those revolvers.

All are a lot of fun at the range and good house self defense guns. Have you looked at a 22 handgun? That would give you good practice.

Texan Scott
July 19, 2012, 10:49 PM
dak0ta, i guess none of us understand why you'd bother owning a handgun you can't carry... you see, NOBODY on this forum owns such an obscene number of guns for which we have no earthly practical use that we couldn't possibly carry them all at the same time. :rolleyes:;)
whether it's a .22 or or .44, if/ when you get your handgun permit, i hope you get something you really like and enjoy... and that you really like and enjoy what you get,

Prince Yamato
July 19, 2012, 11:23 PM
Get the Norinco 1911.

Snag
July 19, 2012, 11:56 PM
....why would a M1A change the situation? Doesn't the M1A also use a detachable magazine?

Not trying to derail the subject but just to answer the question. The difference is an M1A doesn't have a pistol grip stock. It's not detachable magazines that are illegal, it's the combination of detachable magazines and other features they don't like in California.

dak0ta
July 20, 2012, 12:25 AM
We can own Norinco M14's here. Forged receivers, but machining and QC is hit or miss. We have 18.5'' shorty's too. All for $450 + tax. And we get Norinco .308/.45ACP/9mm ammo. Don't know if that's good or bad.

Ar180shooter
July 20, 2012, 10:43 PM
I read somehwere that 40S&W mags by Glock can hold 9mm Luger, is that true? I think you can hold more than 10 that way.
Yes, you can fit 12-13 rounds in one. It does impact reliability though. A friend of mine tried it (using my G22 mags in his G17) and he had 2-3 stovepipes out of 100 rounds.

As for 1911's, they're great guns, but .45 is more expensive than 9mm.

For Norinco rifles, I've owned 1 Norinco M4gery and 2 M14s, and I got rid of them all. They worked well, but leave something to be desired in the quality department. They make great platforms to do a custom build off of, but if you can afford something a little more expensive (such as a S&W, Stag or Bushmaster, for AR's), it's well worth it.

GlackAttack
August 28, 2012, 10:55 PM
Wow I didn't know Canada restricted firearms. Kindof spoils my plans to move there if our dumbass voting population votes in Romney and Ryan.. I wouldn't listen to the discouraging guy talking like handguns are only good for carry. They are a ton of fun, I rarely feel like carrying them myself, I'm more in it for the sport. Go with you're gut, get what you want, and have fun!

Prince Yamato
August 29, 2012, 07:38 AM
Get a Glock 19. The 10 round limit won't be as bad as you think.

beag_nut
August 29, 2012, 07:50 AM
Want to hear a little worse? Pepper spray isn't even allowed in Canada, unless it is labeled "bear deterrent"! All because a Mountie sprayed a few students some years back.
Got a five-sentence rant about it from a border guard when traveling to Quebec on vacation, then looked it up later.

KenW.
August 29, 2012, 07:57 AM
Its the "choice of LE around the world" because LE administrators are often not "gun people". My agency issues Glocks, but the armorer carries an FN. Thats why I carry a Springfield.

PabloJ
August 29, 2012, 09:04 AM
Well fellow Americans, here in Canada, we don't have a 2nd Amendment, so owning a gun isn't a right. I had my non-restricted license that allowed me to own rifles and shotguns. Didn't figure I need my restricted license. Then YOU GUYS started talking about all your AR-15 platforms and handguns and made me jealous. So I took the restricted test today and did well. 98% on the written, and 100% on the practical firearms manipulation part. Sent off my application to the government, and the waiting process begins.

Now remember that here in Canada, we have so absurd laws like 10 rd magazine limits for handguns and 5! round limits on all centrefire semi-automatic rifles. I can live with the handgun part, but jeez.. if I buy a Glock 17, I'd like to have 17 rounds of 9mm Luger, not just 10. Hence, I'm leaning towards a 1911 because it was designed to hold 7 rounds for .45 ACP, hence I don't feel 'limited' in terms of capacity by the stupid law. Also, an 'extended' 1911 holds 9 or 10 anyways :) But then there's the Glock 21.. and S&W M&P 45.. My bank account is going to take a huge hit.. *sigh*

See what you have done THR!!!!
Don't worry your country has natural gas and oil Americans are sure to come in and take over sooner or later.

tarosean
August 29, 2012, 09:18 AM
As for 1911's, they're great guns, but .45 is more expensive than 9mm.

you can get 1911's in numerous calibers..

Limited barrel length and 10rd .. I personally would go with a 1911 style. No sense in owning a gun that was designed for double stack (thickness) and not being able to use it.

Lawdawg45
August 29, 2012, 10:22 AM
Well fellow Americans, here in Canada, we don't have a 2nd Amendment, so owning a gun isn't a right. I had my non-restricted license that allowed me to own rifles and shotguns. Didn't figure I need my restricted license. Then YOU GUYS started talking about all your AR-15 platforms and handguns and made me jealous. So I took the restricted test today and did well. 98% on the written, and 100% on the practical firearms manipulation part. Sent off my application to the government, and the waiting process begins.

Now remember that here in Canada, we have so absurd laws like 10 rd magazine limits for handguns and 5! round limits on all centrefire semi-automatic rifles. I can live with the handgun part, but jeez.. if I buy a Glock 17, I'd like to have 17 rounds of 9mm Luger, not just 10. Hence, I'm leaning towards a 1911 because it was designed to hold 7 rounds for .45 ACP, hence I don't feel 'limited' in terms of capacity by the stupid law. Also, an 'extended' 1911 holds 9 or 10 anyways :) But then there's the Glock 21.. and S&W M&P 45.. My bank account is going to take a huge hit.. *sigh*

See what you have done THR!!!!

Same absurd regulation in California and other ignorant territories, guess they never figured on reloading scenarios by criminals! I sincerely hope they never watch a YouTube video of Jerry Mucilek and his "6" shot revolver:D
Anyway, congratulations on your achievement!
LD

One_Jackal
August 30, 2012, 10:57 AM
If I couldn't carry the gun I would get a magnum caliber revolver with at least a 6" barrel. I hear people talk about how well their semi auto with a 4" barrel shoots. If they shot that well they would destroy all Olympic records. I saw one post were a guy claimed to hit targets 115 yards away with a 4" 40 cal. Maybe one out of a hundred. A 357 with a 6" barrel will hit a target consistently at 30 yards. Once you find the right ammo and get some practice 50 yards isn't out of the question.

Ok, now everyone can tell me how they rip up targets at 30 yards with their 2" .380.

David E
August 30, 2012, 11:16 AM
Wow I didn't know Canada restricted firearms. Kindof spoils my plans to move there if our dumbass voting population votes in Romney and Ryan..

As opposed to the virulently anti gun Obama, eh? :rolleyes:

OP, in addition to the 1911, consider the ten-shot M&P .45

smalls
August 30, 2012, 05:10 PM
As opposed to the virulently anti gun Obama, eh? :rolleyes:

The Canadian gun regulations are way worse than even California's. If the Canadian government said turn in all your guns tomorrow, they'd have no constitution to save them from it.

GlackAttack
September 5, 2012, 02:46 PM
As opposed to the virulently anti gun Obama, eh?
Still paranoid after four years?

OP, I think the Glock 19 would be a great choice: 10 rounds and actually very accurate for a shorter pistol. Let us know what you decide!

Creature
September 5, 2012, 03:13 PM
As opposed to the virulently anti gun Obama, eh?
Still paranoid after four years?

Ummm...considering how incumbent presidential thinking changes from first term to second term, yes, we should be paranoid!

DCoke
September 5, 2012, 03:59 PM
Nice scores on the tests. I hope you get approved.



Yes.....in California of course. I'm not familiar with all the intricacies but suffice it to say you pretty much can't have an AR unless it's got a bullet button mag release. Big reason why I'll be buying an M1A instead.
I purchased my M1A a few years ago and it specifically states that "this gun is not legal in California if purchased post ?1998?" (or some year close to that).

jim243
September 5, 2012, 05:55 PM
I am not sure I understand the rational for restricting the number of rounds a magazine will hold. A criminal will not respect any law including the ones that say they can not posess a firearm. What makes a public offical think that by restricting the law abiding population from owning equipment that will provide them more protection that it will in anyway reduce criminal activity. And as to reducing any crazies , they will just use multable weapons with multable magazines (10 rounds or not).

Why make laws that only helps criminals???'

Point of fact , NY,NY: Chicago, IL: Los Angles, CA: Washington, D.C., the toughest gun laws in the country that have no effect at all on crime.

Jim

45crittergitter
September 10, 2012, 10:11 AM
Just a political statement.... you DO have the right anywhere on Earth, but your government is violating it. Hopefully that will get better.

splattergun
September 11, 2012, 08:38 PM
Just a political statement.... you DO have the right anywhere on Earth, but your government is violating it. Hopefully that will get better.
True that. The greatest misconception about our Constitiution, and rights in general, is that people think rights are granted by government, when in truth, our Constitution is a document which recognizes and guarantees, within the U.S., certain universal rights common to all human beings.

THe idea that the right to protect oneself is a privelege granted by rulers is a completely foreign concept to a free person.

When guns are outlawed only outlaws and the wealthy elite will have guns.

oneounceload
September 11, 2012, 09:47 PM
I'm a Southpaw too, so something with ambi controls is nice. Or something that isn't too difficult to operate the controls with the left hand.

This is more of which one to get FIRST. The others will come afterwards! So I guess, what is easiest to learn and maintain for a total handgun newbie?


An older gun that fits your requirements perfectly (I am LH also) is the HK P7 - but its manual of arms is unlike no other - completely ambidextrous simply squeeze the cocking device on the grip and ready to shoot, release and it is totally safe. Mags only hold 8 so you are good to go regarding mag capacity......VERY accurate

TennJed
September 11, 2012, 10:52 PM
What I wonder is...what will you do with that handgun? (other than enjoy it and shoot it at the range like everybody else, I understand, just asking from a strictly utilitarian/practical perspective)

To me, personally, 95% of the usefulness of a handgun is the ability to take it with you on your person (usually concealed).

Some folks just have different ideas. To me 95% of a guns usefulness is enjoyment. If I had your mindset I would probably only own 2 guns. As it is the guns I buy and research typically haze zero thought put into carrying.

I also enjoy small guns with zero intention of carrying them

Big20
September 13, 2012, 10:31 PM
Wow! Didn't think any Obama supporters visited this site until I read #42.

Kiln
September 14, 2012, 05:53 AM
Wow I didn't know Canada restricted firearms. Kindof spoils my plans to move there if our dumbass voting population votes in Romney and Ryan.. I wouldn't listen to the discouraging guy talking like handguns are only good for carry. They are a ton of fun, I rarely feel like carrying them myself, I'm more in it for the sport. Go with you're gut, get what you want, and have fun!
Just thought you should know that the 2012 Democratic National platform called for a few "common sense" improvements like reinstating the AWB and closing that pesky "gun show loophole" that they've been working against for 30 years. So if Obama wins, the USA's gun laws will become alot more restrictive if Dems have anything to say about it.

Here's a quote from the Dem's National platform (a direct quote from it that hasn't been edited in any way):


Firearms. We recognize that the individual right to bear arms is an important part of the American tradition, and we will preserve Americans’ Second Amendment right to own and use firearms. We believe that the right to own firearms is subject to reasonable regulation. We understand the terrible consequences of gun violence; it serves as a reminder that life is fragile, and our time here is limited and precious. We believe in an honest, open national conversation about firearms. We can focus on effective enforcement of existing laws, especially strengthening our background check system, and we can work together to enact commonsense improvements – like reinstating the assault weapons ban and closing the gun show loophole – so that guns do not fall into the hands of those irresponsible, law-breaking few.

tomrkba
September 14, 2012, 07:57 AM
The fear is not just what Obama will do; it is what Congress will do. Obama cannot exceed statute at this time. If the Democrats get a full majority in both houses, then there will be more gun control since there will be no political consequence for Obama.

These people in government have no compunction about violating the Constitution. The President has already ordered the death of an American citizen overseas without trial.* If he will murder (killing without due process) Americans, then gun control is not even something he considers of any moral significance. It is just another avenue for more power. The only thing holding them back is the potential to lose the next Presidential and Congressional elections.


* It does not matter how obnoxious that man was. The Fifth and Sixth Amendment rights were violated. This will become a habit under NDAA 2011 where they will "disappear" Americans. They just ruled that no warrants are needed to gather information "that will not be used". Think about how that can be abused. This is not paranoia; these are laws passed on record.

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