anti-firearm friend


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cidirkona
February 23, 2004, 12:48 PM
A friend of mine that's in my band has some fairly extremist views on certain things - which is cool with me, I'm glad he's passionate about politics, but he has some stuff to say that I find semi-disturbing.

"Guns should be illegal. People should not have a right to kill someone that easily. Guns are for ******s, if someone pisses me off, I'd straight just knock him out."

I reminded him that guns helped this country become and remain independant, that there are millions of guns out there already and that guns laws only hurt the lawful, and that the knives are 4 times more deadly than the average shot fired...

I don't know what else to say to him...?

-Colin

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TimRB
February 23, 2004, 12:56 PM
Don't argue with him. Take him shooting.

Tim

cidirkona
February 23, 2004, 12:58 PM
I've tried, I offered my whole band that I'd pay for their admission and ammo to go down to the range and put some holes in paper, but he just said "F*ck that."

-Colin

mete
February 23, 2004, 01:00 PM
So he attacks someone who pisses him off ? Have you recommended he anger management courses ? My gun is for defense and I am intelligent and mature enough to avoid confrontations. When you are carrying a gun leave your macho at home !

cordex
February 23, 2004, 01:02 PM
Guns are for ******s, if someone pisses me off, I'd straight just knock him out.
Sounds like your friend is a pretty violent person. You could tell him that at least you agree that he should be unarmed, as he is obviously a violent and unstable individual with poor impulse control. You might also suggest he not drive a car lest he be tempted to run someone down, or own a knife lest he be tempted to cut someone's throat, or own household cleaners lest he be tempted to concoct a noxious substance to harm others, or own matches lest he be tempted to burn someone alive in their sleep.

Someone who would intentionally cause bodily harm to include brain damage (since that is what is involved in knocking a person unconcious) because someone "pisses [him] off" has no place in a civilized society. Serious counseling and psychiatric evaluation is in order, especially if he has children or a spouse.

He's projecting what he would do with a gun on everyone else. Since he knows he would lash out at others with whatever weapons were available for any perceived slights, he expects everyone else to do the same. Additionally, I expect he's probably terrified that one of these days he's going to assault someone for "pissing [him] off" and they're going to be able to defend themselves. Thus, allowing people to be armed and capable of defending themselves does not fit in with his violent, predatory mindset.

I'd think twice about having this individual as a friend.

edit: Whoops! Mete beat me to it.

hksw
February 23, 2004, 01:05 PM
Guns are for ******s, if someone pisses me off, I'd straight just knock him out.

Heh. Almost all of the time I've heard of comments like this they've come from high schoolers/early college.

Ask him what he would do if he met up with someone tougher and bent on doing harm to him. (Would he run like a little girl? ;)) Of course, no-one is tougher than him I'll bet.

Carlos Cabeza
February 23, 2004, 01:07 PM
Guns are for ******s, if someone pisses me off, I'd straight just knock him out. Yep, but there is always someone bigger and badder than him right around the corner. and even the big bad guys have a bad day. The guy sounds like he is just a big bully with something to prove. (little richard)

cordex
February 23, 2004, 01:15 PM
Yep, but there is always someone bigger and badder than him right around the corner. and even the big bad guys have a bad day.
The nice thing about being the aggressor, is that you get to pick who you initiate force upon. In other words, if a 6' 10" 400lb muscle-bound hulk of a man pisses him off, he'll let it slide. If the irritating person is a 4' 10" girl weight 90 pounds soaking wet with rocks in her pockets, he's more'n willing to straight just knock her out.

cidirkona
February 23, 2004, 01:28 PM
Well, he's in my band and the other 4 people are decent people.

I wouldn't consider him a violent person because I've never actually seen him go off and do violent acts, but I don't want to either.

About having someone bigger than him picking on him (he's a fairly big guy, not built, but tall) - he said he'd rather "get beat the f*ck down" than use a firearm.

I am glad that he doens't own any though.

Does anyone have any statistics on how many guns there are in America and how many of those are 'legal' firearms, in the hands of legal law-abiding citizens?

Thanks
-Colin

Carlos Cabeza
February 23, 2004, 01:36 PM
Well, younger, stronger guys can take a punch and "getting beat down" doesn't neccessarily constitute the need for deadly force. Ask him if he meant "Some smallish guy with a gun that is going to shoot me for my wallet. I'd rather get beat down." But you know most little muggers are too lazy to waste all that energy, they'd just shoot you. The flaw in his logic is he won't get a second chance, he'll be dead.

cordex
February 23, 2004, 01:52 PM
I wouldn't consider him a violent person because I've never actually seen him go off and do violent acts, but I don't want to either.
Let me put it another way, then. He advocates unnecessary aggression and violence as the solution to minor problems. Whether or not he goes through with what he advocates is another issue altogether. He's either a hypocrite or a violent and unstable person. At the very least he has an unhealthy tendency towards accepting the initiation of aggression as normal and acceptable.

Of course, you have to make the decision about whether or not it is worthwhile to associate with him, but he certainly doesn't sound like someone I'd choose to spend my free time with. I'd like to die of old age without ever having to pull my pistol in anger, and your friend sounds like someone who invites trouble even if only through tough words so I think I'd prefer to associate with "******s" who are willing to walk and talk softly, but carry big sticks.
People should not have a right to kill someone that easily.
I'm interested in how your friend rationalizes his desire for banning guns because they make it easy to kill with the multitude of otherwise legal devices, substances and objects that can make it easy to kill someone that he has not singled out for making illegal.

raz-0
February 23, 2004, 02:10 PM
the guy lives in a fantasy land. From what little you have said, I can pretty much guess he makes the assumption that guns being illegal would result in a world with no guns. Not even getting to the point of criminals not caring about illegal, he probably doesn't even bother to make the minor deductive step about governments and firearms. In his fantasy world, guns = scary death thing and no guns = nothing scary anymore.

SOunds like a guy who doesn't have a lot of complex thoughts on much at all. Largely they are a waste of time unless there's something in it for you to try and teach them how to think about things. Because you WILL have to teach him how to think before you can even hope to make him think about his opinions.

foghornl
February 23, 2004, 02:13 PM
Something I learned the hard way (several times :D ) is that now matter how "bad" you are, there is always someone a tiny bit 'badder'

SAG0282
February 23, 2004, 02:30 PM
It's probably a lost cause honestly......some people are just resistant to logic, and require a real experience to change that.

Drjones
February 23, 2004, 02:49 PM
I'm surprised no one here has told you not to engage in a battle of wits with the unarmed.

We all know what happens when you do.

cidirkona
February 23, 2004, 03:05 PM
hahaha - thanks for all the suggestions and comments guys (and gals?).

-Colin

TJ(MN)
February 23, 2004, 03:06 PM
It is almost impossible to overcome willed ignorance. He may not be capable of rational independent thought, which he would need to overcome his aversion of firearms.

TCD
February 23, 2004, 03:17 PM
tell ya what, how about we get this guy, throw a bunch of blood on him, stick him in some prime grizzly land in Alaska, and tell him, "oh damn, my bad you cant have access to this nice 12 guage or .454 for defence, because after all, they are just for ******s"

Remember, guns can be used for defence for more than just people. There are certain places in this country where 4 legged critters still pose a significant danger....

Zundfolge
February 23, 2004, 03:30 PM
Guns are for ******s, if someone pisses me off, I'd straight just knock him out.

Yeah ... this lady here is a real ****y ... she shoulda just knocked the guy out :rolleyes:
http://www.plusp.com/classroom/lesson30.php

Well, for your buddy's sake, I hope his philosophy is never put to the test ... otherwise you're going to have to figure out how to eulogize someone who sounds like kind of a jerk.

hillbilly
February 23, 2004, 03:46 PM
I"'ve tried, I offered my whole band that I'd pay for their admission and ammo to go down to the range and put some holes in paper, but he just said "F*ck that."


Okay. Let me get this straight.

It's your band. And you offered to pay everyone's way. And this one guy, all by himself, can veto what the rest of you all want to do by merely shouting "F*ck That!"???

Uh, that's one heck of a "friend" you got there......

hillbilly

cidirkona
February 23, 2004, 03:51 PM
Two of the guys decided to go along, two of them have shot plenty before, and he was opposed to it.

-Colin

HankB
February 23, 2004, 03:59 PM
he said he'd rather "get beat the f*ck down" than use a firearm. So . . . in his own estimation, the continued health and well-being of a bad guy who attacks him is worth more than HIS OWN continued health? Tell him that he seems to have problems of self-esteem, and clearly thinks very little of himself.

Hmmm . . . if his OWN self-evaluation indicates he's not worth much, hopefully he doesn't have a significant other or a child who may be depending on him some day . . .

And . . . if HE doesn't value himself very highly, why should ANYONE else value his mere OPINION? :evil:

cidirkona
February 23, 2004, 04:17 PM
Very good point.

-Colin

grnzbra
February 23, 2004, 04:31 PM
Guns are for ******s, if someone pisses me off, I'd straight just knock him out."
If the people on this thread would like to take up a collection, I'm sure I could come up with any number of people who would just love to piss him off. (By the way, the money collected is my fee, these guys would do it just for the fun of giving him an attitude adjustment)

Harold Mayo
February 23, 2004, 05:24 PM
Doesn't sound like there's even any point in wasting time on the guy...:rolleyes:

Baba Louie
February 23, 2004, 05:42 PM
I don't know what else to say to him...? Have a mind that is open to everything and attached to nothing. Smile and let it go.
OR, if you really want to continue his thinking mode... ask him what a 105 lb 60 year old woman would do in regards to punching out a 200 lb, 20 year old burglar/assailant who's a repeat offender out on parole... smile and let it go.
What's good for me might not be what's good for you, and vice versa.
Enjoy making music with him.

fjolnirsson
February 23, 2004, 05:51 PM
If the people on this thread would like to take up a collection, I'm sure I could come up with any number of people who would just love to piss him off. (By the way, the money collected is my fee, these guys would do it just for the fun of giving him an attitude adjustment

:D
I'm in. I'm good at pissing people off.:p

Skunkabilly
February 23, 2004, 05:59 PM
"Guns should be illegal. People should not have a right to kill someone that easily. Guns are for pussies, if someone pisses me off, I'd straight just knock him out."

Violent people scare me.

fish2xs
February 23, 2004, 06:21 PM
Stupid comment: "...if someone pisses me off, I'd straight just knock him out."

Your reply: "And if that someone is my grandma... Well I'm just happy that she's packing!"

Sorry to say, but I have a pretty low opinion of your 'friend'.

Treylis
February 23, 2004, 06:32 PM
Perhaps you should remind your friend that not everyone is in a physical shape for such things--women in general just don't have the musculature that men do, and god forbid he think about people in wheelchairs or that are otherwise disabled... even with a temporary thing like a broken bone. What the hell are they supposed to do, try to fend 'em off with cast or cane?

I second the notion that this line of thinking commonly comes from highschool/early collegiate men.

And also remind him that it's the tool-using aspects of humanity that brought us up out of the muck, heh.

Bruce H
February 23, 2004, 06:43 PM
May I enquire as to his musical insturment? With his attitude the fees the proctologist charges will greatly depend on what gets shoved up there.

gripper
February 23, 2004, 06:44 PM
everyone handles insecurity,bad memories,residual fear etc. differently. my first impulse on reading about your friend&his attitude problem/responses was to take the old"what an @sshole-send him my way &have him take his title shot"approach.but you know;in doing that I'M the @sshole.I would just say to take your other bandmates shooing,make it fun&educational.throw in some valu/political discussion where appropriate;they are your friends so they must at least respewct you enough to think about what you're all doing together&talking about.As faras the "tough guy"goes,you know him,I don't. If you consider him a friend than you should be able to talk with him. Ask him if he could fight efficiently as soon as he could walk,the same about physical conditioning/training etc.Appeal to his obvious respect for physicalskills/prowess(toughness,fighting abil;ity)as another (or first)discipline to challenge oneself with.Who could say??Maybe he will come around.Be aware however ,that if the @sshole side of his nature kicks in too much he might be worth walking away from.Or working over yourself IF the bad behavior warrants it.Sometimes object lessons are necessary.

manwithoutahome
February 23, 2004, 11:10 PM
cidirkona,

Depending on how "good" this friend is, here is what I did:

I made friends with someone while I was active duty in the AF. He was an office hand, grew up with anti parents, etc..

This day and age, not only is he a firearms owner, but his mother has come around also. Still won't shoot, but not afraid of them anylonger. Here's what I did.

Invited him over in GA one day (We were both at Moody AFB) and got to talking. I had previously put a 12ga shotgun, my SKS, my HK, my Ruger 9mm, and I think the 45-70 and with about 100rds for each (actually, around 1000rds for the SKS, I just "had a feeling"). I told him that I wanted to go down by the river (which they had a "range" pit there) to check something out.

He wanted to go so I drove up to the river and parked. I got out, walked down into the pit, and then walked back, got my target stands out and started to put up targets. He asks what I'm doing and I just said that this seems like a good place to put some rounds into paper and steel. He knew that I was a gun owner.

I placed the targets and got out the shotgun, SKS and the whole shooting match. Loaded up one at a time and "went to town".

I told him that he could watch or join me, his choice.

I came home without any ammo left and almost sold the SKS because my "gut" was right. 1000rds of ammo, and I don't think I fired more then 90rds of it! He deplited(sp) ALL of my ammo stash, but he was happy. Even helped to clean the guns (thank G-d, that was alot of guns to clean at once for me).

After that, he went wild. Bought a Glock, traded it in for a Springfield .45, an M1A, a NAA .32, S&W .357 something, Bolt action .308, etc.. This guy went wild, wanted everything out there. The guy hasn't been happier since IMHO. And yes, I did break my arm :D (the older folks should know what the means).

Tricks work, but they backfire also. I didn't ask him to join me (once we were there), it was his decision to do so. I did ask him to give me money for the ammo we spent (jokingly) and he says, "hey, I didn't ask to be there, and you offered" :D

M

Zundfolge
February 24, 2004, 12:56 AM
Lemme guess ... this guy's the lead singer isn't he?
:evil:

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