(MN) Bar Shooting Photos


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Andrew Rothman
February 23, 2004, 01:03 PM
http://www.twincities.com/ (http://www.twincities.com/multimedia/twincities/KRT_packages/slideshow/arneliashooting/slideshow.swf)multimedia/twincities/ (http://www.twincities.com/multimedia/twincities/KRT_packages/slideshow/arneliashooting/slideshow.swf)
KRT_packages/slideshow/arneliashooting/slideshow.swf (http://www.twincities.com/multimedia/twincities/KRT_packages/slideshow/arneliashooting/slideshow.swf)

As our own joelr says on his blog at
http://www.livejournal.com/users/joelrosenberg/2004/02/23/

Rather chilling stills from the surveillance video of the killer walking [past] the metal detectors into Arnellia's bar in St. Paul last Friday...shooting -- and killing an innocent bystander -- then casually walking out, past the large yellow

Arnellia's Bar
BANS GUNS IN THESE PREMISES

sign, and strolling away.

...

The killer is still at large; anybody with information about his identity should contact the St. Paul PD at 651-266-6650. Anybody who who wants to stay out of these dangerous posted places should check out the list at gunfreezones (http://www.gunfreezones.com) .

Me, I'm going to stay away from posted places; they seem to attract the wrong sort of clientele.

Amen.

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Andrew Rothman
February 23, 2004, 01:08 PM
Here's one of the 16 photos:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=817881

El Tejon
February 23, 2004, 01:26 PM
How appropriate that the "no guns" sign was legal-pad yellow.:eek:

Maybe the gun did not see the sign?:uhoh:

sturmruger
February 23, 2004, 04:30 PM
I was just going to post these pics, but I decided that first I should do a search to see if anyone had beat me to the punch. I think it is interesting to see that the gunman is using a one handed hold, and not a two handed weaver stance.

goalie
February 23, 2004, 04:39 PM
This obviously is a hoax, there are signs posted prohibiting firearms on the property.

P95Carry
February 23, 2004, 04:52 PM
I was going to make a comment on the perp ...... hmmm ... but not here.

Just makes you wonder eh ... had someone been carrying and in yellow at least .. this could well have been instead a commendable pool cleanse operation, instead of which someone is taken out.

Tend to wonder tho re ''innocent bystander'' .. if perp then casually walks out .. sounds much more like a ''hit'' to me.

SJG26
February 23, 2004, 05:16 PM
I just realized the reference to--and clear photo of - the airport style metal detector-doorway in the bar!!:what:

Is this now commonplace in Minn (St. Paul here I think)? I recall all the Minn threads re. the worries of hidden/concealed guns...........I doubt much that the perp is a law-abiding CCW permit holder!!

goblue
February 23, 2004, 05:32 PM
SJG26--

With regards to your question about metal detectors being common place in MN (Minneapolis/St. Paul)- I have only seen them at the airport. I have not seen them at the restaurants, bars, movie theaters, sporting venues, or any other place that I would frequent. They may have them in some courthouses, but not all. Of course, I would never enter a place that has a metal detector- that would be a really bad sign.

Andrew Rothman
February 23, 2004, 05:53 PM
Nightclubs and concert venues have commonly "wanded" guests with a portable detector for more than a decade.

But I've never seen a fixed, permanent gate-style detector except at an airport.

This is a bar in a rough neighborhood that gets a rough crowd and hosts -- forgive me -- rap music.

Apparently because of past problems, they have pretty elaborate security -- metal detectors and a lot of cameras.

Of course, like the police, cameras only help investigate after the fact. They certainly didn't stop this guy. And neither, by the way, did the metal detector.

goalie
February 23, 2004, 05:57 PM
It is an interesting bar to say the least.

Rule number one of staying out of trouble: Avoid places where large numbers of stupid people gather and drink. IMO, that includes most bars on the planet.

Andrew Rothman
February 23, 2004, 05:59 PM
It's probably not a "hit."

The shooter had been drinking there for some time when he and his party were tossed out for bad behavior.

After the shooter left, Innocent Schmoe came in.

Immediately after, shooter came back, hosed the whole bar, and happened to hit and kill the poor Innocent Schmoe.

(Incidentally, there was an off-duty St. Paul cop six feet away. He took no action and fled the scene. Needless to say, an investigation is proceeding. And our joelr has an interesting take on that, too: http://www.livejournal.com/users/joelrosenberg/15908.html

twoblink
February 23, 2004, 06:17 PM
Someone forgot to tell the killer a "gun free zone" is suppose to be safer...

Wait, he knew that! That's why nobody shot back!:banghead: :cuss:

KMKeller
February 23, 2004, 07:01 PM
You can even see beginning in slide 2 where the light on the upper right hand corner of the metal detector goes red...

greyhound
February 23, 2004, 07:57 PM
Any editorials using this incident to call for repeal of CCW yet?
:rolleyes:

VaughnT
February 23, 2004, 08:44 PM
So, what could be done to this "off-duty cop" that was six feet from the shooter and did nothing but run? Can he be fired? Jailed?

xenophon
February 23, 2004, 08:53 PM
This thing didn't last that long. Looking at the timestamp on the video,

frame 1: 1:13:58 am
frame 14: 1:14:03


That's like 5 seconds, give or take.

there's 16 frames, but by frame 14, he has stopped shooting, turned around and was starting to run. That's not much time to react there. I don't think anyone with a guy in a holster could have reacted in time, seeing how there were bullets flying all around. Now if you would have seen the guy walked in from outside, then you could probably pull your weapon in time and have a chance, but not likely when yer in a bar and drinking and chatting it up with your buds. Such a shame.

x

Sven
February 23, 2004, 09:13 PM
WOW. That is scary.

JoeWang
February 23, 2004, 09:22 PM
Don't knock the off-duty cop so hard. Would you prefer he got really lit up at a bar, confused two guys looking for change in their car as thieves and pull a hard case on them?

LEO is a job, we cannot expect everyone to make a 24/7 life out of it. I expect them to do their jobs and not be corrupt. Beyond that is asking too much.

Andrew Rothman
February 24, 2004, 03:07 AM
By Minnesota law, the cop has no obligation to go about his off-duty hours
with a sidearm or badge. (Read Joel's blog at the link above.)

Still, to slink away without even staying to be a witness, to calm the crowd, or to render aid to the victim, shows poor character.

I suspect that they'd throw the book at him, except there is no book on this issue.

Still, I don't think he'll be getting promoted soon.

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