Glock Gen4...one step forward and two steps back (from a Glock guy)


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StrikeFire83
July 20, 2012, 12:59 AM
Check my signature before you flame-on.

I love my Glocks. They're never getting sold. Period. I shoot them well, they're dead nuts reliable, they're durable, easy to clean, feel good in the hand, great triggers. I love em. I'm a pretty average guy. 5' 10", medium sized hands, etc. I don't find Glocks to be too fat or difficult to grip. Never have. I love my Glocks...my GEN 3 Glocks, that is.

Gen4 Glock 17: I shot one today...ugh
Positives
+No malfunctions in the 100 rounds that I shot

+Inter-changable backstraps (I don't care about this, but a lot of people seem to)

Negatives
-Finish: My friend's Gen4 G17 has roughly 1,000 rounds though it and it looks more "worn" than my G17 with nearly 15k rounds. No bare metal, but the finish is duller. Not shiny or slippery like that on my Gen3 G17 and G26.

-Grip Texture: Terrible. Rough, scratchy, uncomfortable. And the retention in my hand seems to be just about the same as my Gen3.

-Backstraps are a pain in the butt to change out. They have a terrible "tacked on" look to them.

Anyhow, that's my $2. I'm sure there are plenty of you who will disagree with me. I love my Gen3 Glocks. They're not going anywhere. And everybody at the gun store has said that Glock has no immediate plans to do away with the Gen3s. I think that's a good idea, because Glock fixed what wasn't broken.

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dak0ta
July 20, 2012, 01:24 AM
How did the felt recoil differ? They have that new dual recoil spring. Also, how is the enlarged magazine release?

StrikeFire83
July 20, 2012, 01:31 AM
1) Felt recoil: I noticed no difference. If there were initial problems with malfunctions because of the recoil spring redesign, this gun doesn't have any that I or my friend have experienced.

2) The larger magazine release, though completely unnecessary in my opinion, wasn't as big of an issue as I thought it would be. I did not drop the magazine accidentally, nor was I ever in fear of doing so.

Rob G
July 20, 2012, 05:53 AM
I have to agree with you on the backstraps. It just isn't up to their usual standards. I have an M&P Compact with the interchangeable backstrap (or palm swell as S&W calls it) and it's not only functional but it really looks good. Plus you can't actually tell by looking at it that it's a removeable/changeable part. The same could be said for the XD, although I'm not a huge fan of the overall look of their grip. Glock's design for it though just looks kind of half done. It's almost like they put it on there because every one else was, but they didn't really take the time to make it good.

Otherwise though I think the Gen4 is a good pistol. I put about 200 rounds through a friend's Gen4 G19 the other day and it was basically everything you'd expect from Glock: reliable and accurate. Still if I was buying one, and I am thinking about adding a G32 or a G36 to my collection, I'd probably go with a Gen3.

mes228
July 20, 2012, 08:25 AM
I really am disappointed with Glock doing away with the "Tennifer" finish. Glock's show less wear than any pistols I've owned. I too have Glock's with 10K or so rounds that look as new, and function as new. Never a burp in any way. Why on earth Glock decided to "improve" the Gen 4 is a mystery to me. The Gen 3 are the only ones I'd consider. I've owned several XD's, MP's,Walther P99's, H&K's and most plastic guns out there. Sadly, Glock shot themselves in the foot for no reason. They were a superior product already.

ZJPMBA
July 20, 2012, 08:28 AM
I actually prefer my Gen4 Glock 19 to my Gen3. I haven't seen the differences in finish like you're seeing. But I prefer the Gen4 mainly because of the larger magazine release... It allows me to not have to shift the gun in my hand to reload quickly. I do feel a slight difference in recoil, but not much. I have to agree on the back straps... While secure, they don't seem as "finished" as they should be.

I've got 1,700 rounds through my 3 week old Gen4 without a single malfunction. 1,300 of those rounds were run with no cleaning.

ku4hx
July 20, 2012, 09:51 AM
Wow. My Gen4 19 is fast becoming my favorite piece. Through some 2,500 rounds it's functioned flawlessly, the finish has held up at least as well and its older Gen3 brother and general feel is at the very least on a par with the other seven I own.

WinThePennant
July 20, 2012, 11:24 AM
But for the Gen 4, I wouldn't own a Glock.

The "small" backstrap is the default, and I find that it fits my hand like a glove. The 'texture' on the Gen 4 is, to me, "perfect." I wouldn't worry about the difficulty of changing backstraps. Once you find the right size for you, you'll never change it again. One and done.

The finish? I rather like mine. I think this is a personal preference thing. I like the no-nonsense utilitarian look of a Glock.

I absolutely LOVE my Glocks!

StrikeFire83
July 20, 2012, 03:22 PM
Well, as I said in the original post, the thing functioned flawlessly, as I'd expect any Glock would. Whatever initial issues they had with the recoil spring redesign (and I think those were waaaaaaaaaay overblown by the internet) seem to have been ironed out.

I just hope and pray (I'm an atheist) that Glock continues to produce the Gen3 guns. Glock "classic" maybe? Hopefully it'll be like Springfield does with the XD/XDm...room in the market for both.

coolluke01
July 20, 2012, 03:34 PM
I really am disappointed with Glock doing away with the "Tennifer" finish.

This is not correct. They still use the Tennifer finish, the top coat is now a matte instead of the Gen 3's gloss.

I have 1000's of rounds through my G 26 and G34 Gen 4's. No finish issues.

I think the backstraps are great. I use the largest one and it's perfect. The oversized mag release is nice and works great in competitions.

I think the Gen 4 is a winner. I can see how some may not think the upgrades are necessary for them, but this doesn't detract from the viability of the Gen 4. It's just preference.

Long live Glocks!! lol

StrikeFire83
July 20, 2012, 05:31 PM
Let's just hope that a Glock divided against itself CAN stand!

GLOOB
July 20, 2012, 11:05 PM
Negatives
-Finish: My friend's Gen4 G17 has roughly 1,000 rounds though it and it looks more "worn" than my G17 with nearly 15k rounds. No bare metal, but the finish is duller. Not shiny or slippery like that on my Gen3 G17 and G26.
AFAIK, the dull finish is the defacto standard on all current Gen3 pistols, too. Yes, I also prefer the old "slippery" finish.

Personally, I'll keep my older Gen3 9mms. But if I were to get a G22/23, I'd go for the Gen 4 for the stronger recoil spring.

burk
July 21, 2012, 12:51 AM
AFAIK, the dull finish is the defacto standard on all current Gen3 pistols, too. Yes, I also prefer the old "slippery" finish.

Personally, I'll keep my older Gen3 9mms. But if I were to get a G22/23, I'd go for the Gen 4 for the stronger recoil spring.

I'm with you, I think the changes in the Gen4 were critical for the .40 and somewhat helpful on the .45 models. But the Gen3 in a 9mm was about as foolproof a quality shooter ever produced, why mess with it. They are offering different recoil springs (voluntary recall) for the 9mm Gen4's already.

For the 40's, the Gen4 should fix two issues

1) Slightly larger chamber handles reloads better

2) Heavier springs help the gun cycle with a light on the rail. Some LE had issues with 22's and 23's not coming fully into battery with a light on the front end.

One_Jackal
July 21, 2012, 01:03 AM
But you get a free magazine with the Gen 4.

CPshooter
July 21, 2012, 02:13 AM
This is exactly why I just bought a NIB gen 3 glock 26. Can't stand the new gen 4s. Glock just jumped on the interchangeable backstrap bandwagon in an attempt to stop the other guys from gaining market share. The new grip as a whole is a total abomination IMHO. I don't care about the new dual recoil spring either because the only Glocks I plan on owning are 9mm and a dual recoil spring isn't necessary at all for 9mm. It just adds the potential for more failures to a system that has already been proven reliable (Problems have been reported by a lot of new gen 4 owners).

I didn't know there were issues with the quality of the finish. That's a shame if you ask me. Long live the gen 3 Glocks! This is where "perfection" started and ended.

CPshooter
July 21, 2012, 02:17 AM
AFAIK, the dull finish is the defacto standard on all current Gen3 pistols, too. Yes, I also prefer the old "slippery" finish.Uh oh. If this is true I really hope the NIB gen 3 g26 I have coming has the old finish and not the new one.

Anyone have pics of the old vs new finish?

9mmepiphany
July 21, 2012, 12:53 PM
The new finish is just parkerization on top of the surface treatment

CPshooter
July 21, 2012, 01:08 PM
The new finish is just parkerization on top of the surface treatmentIs there any way to tell by serial number whether or not this new gun I have coming in is old or new finish?

I also read something about the new gen 4s being produced in the USA instead of Austria..is this true? If so, is it only the USA-made guns that are parkerized instead of whatever they had before as their finish over the Tennifer treatment?

Thanks

9mmepiphany
July 21, 2012, 02:08 PM
It thought it was just bluing over the surface treatment before...they just didn't polish as much as folks are used to.

I don't think there is a serial number break...but you could check over on Glocktalk and see if they know.

If it bothers you alot, you could call CCR and ask what it would take to finish it the way you'd like. You'd only need to mail them the slide ($10)

coolluke01
July 21, 2012, 05:55 PM
The tennifer process can't be done in the USA. Gen 4's are still made in Austria and shipped here to be assembled. They are still treated with tennifer but as has been said they now have a different finish over the tennifer.

cocojo
July 22, 2012, 01:11 AM
The tennifer is gone on late gen 3's and all gen 4s, about 2010. Glock had it on their web site and took it off. I guess they are clamping down on it in Austria, unless they are finishing the guns here. They are using another teatment similar to what S&W uses melonite. They had most of the police share of the market. Then they started to change something that worked great and now having issues. There are many PD's who have traded their Glocks for S&W or Springfields xd's. Min extractors, no tennifer, spring issues, needless backstraps why fix something not broken and works well. I wonder if the duel springs will function like the single springs when mud, dirt, rain, lint and a poorly maintained gun. Anyone do a comparison test with gen 3 v gen4 yet under these conditions.

918v
July 22, 2012, 03:55 AM
Whatever they call it, the surface finish is still as hard as a diamond. I recently had the displeasure of attempting to fit a Kensight adjustable rear sight to my 2012 17L. I can attest the slide is as hard as carbide. What I did to that slide would have mangled that dovetail slot. But it still looks perfect.

GLOOB
July 22, 2012, 04:09 AM
The new finish is just parkerization on top of the surface treatment
Where did this info come from, anyhow? I've heard it many times, but I never believed it. Parkerization is surface etching of steel with phosphoric acid. This removes some material, leaving a porous, oxidized surface.

How can you do that to a microns-thin tennifer/melonite surface treatment without ruining it?

My friend's gen4 has a small mark where this rough finish appears to have chipped off. Parkerized finish on steel can be scratched, but I've never seen it chip off.

There's another thing to ponder. You have a diamond-hard, rust-proof, scratch-proof, maintenance-free nitrocarburized finish on a gun. Why top it off with a porous surface etching that can be easily scratched and must be kept loaded with oil?

The Man With No Name
July 22, 2012, 05:45 AM
1. I haven't had any finish issues with my gen4 17. It seems to be holding up as good as any other Glock I've ever owned. It hasn't been run across the pavement yet like my last gen3 was but even then only the plastic was damaged (not enough to warrant replacing) as the holster it was in protected the rest of it.
2. I like the grip better on the gen4 with no backstrap installed. I prefer the smaller grip. Holding the gun for a long time seems more comfortable. That is a big deal for me as it is a working tool. My qualification score has remained the same also.
3. That said I hate any type of finger groves. Glock got it right with the original grip. If they really were concerned about ergonomics then they would go back to the original grip IMO.

txgunsuscg
July 22, 2012, 10:20 AM
Is there any way to tell by serial number whether or not this new gun I have coming in is old or new finish?

I also read something about the new gen 4s being produced in the USA instead of Austria..is this true? If so, is it only the USA-made guns that are parkerized instead of whatever they had before as their finish over the Tennifer treatment?

Thanks
Per my instructor in the armorer course, no Glocks currently built in the US are sold in the US. They are sold overseas to get around some WWI/WWII era bans and treaties that prevent some countries from buying from Austria but not the US.

Maybe they will be eventually, but they are not right now.

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