Foolish to take my dogs scouting?


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Victor1Echo
July 20, 2012, 10:21 PM
So I got an archery tag for x9b in California, and was out scouting. I never take my dogs because they suck on a leash, and they cannot run wild because they will chase deer and I will not see them for a week. But I took them today because I feel guilty leaving them. Is this a big deal as far as their scent in the area?

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rcmodel
July 20, 2012, 10:28 PM
I wouldn't think so if you are scouting in July.

When is archery season there??

Unless it's in the next few weeks, what you scout now won't be doing the same thing then anyway.

rc

Victor1Echo
July 21, 2012, 10:35 AM
Opening day is August 18th.

buck460XVR
July 21, 2012, 11:29 AM
Their scent is less repulsive to the deer than your scent. Deer also know the difference between what's there now and what was there last week. If there is any bird hunting done on that piece of public land there will be all kinds of fresh dog scent there all season. Now your dogs chasing the deer is a different story.

H&Hhunter
July 21, 2012, 01:11 PM
Scent is not a problem. Chasing is a HUGE problem especially now when the does have fawns. If you can't control them don't bring them. I had 4 jadgterriers with me last week deer scouting. But they are all trained hunting dogs and they know what they can and can't chase and deer are off the list. There are no hogs in the area so w were good to go. I've got two in the pack that are a but iffy on recall and get excited around game so they get to wear a trash beaker collar. AKA as the long range hand of god. On e touch instant control for up to 3 miles away.

Patocazador
July 22, 2012, 12:26 AM
I always take my Boykin Spaniel with me when scouting. It is a HUGE advantage because she alerts when she finds very fresh deer scent. This allows me to distinguish older tracks and sign from that made in the last 4 hours or so. It lets me know that this trail is/was being used recently. She is very well-behaved and will walk at heel or within 15 yards when told "Easy". She is not a hound so won't alert to old scent. She also blood-trails deer for me.

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll33/docjawbraker/90lbdoe9WEB.jpg

x_wrench
July 22, 2012, 11:39 AM
patocazador, that looks exactly like our old dog "Frosty" (RIP) none of the vets we took her to ever came up with that breed of dog. she was crossed with a german short-haired pointer (mother), but we never knew what the father was. are they a rare breed? she was extremely well behaved also. hands down the best dog i have ever had the privilege of accompanying.

Victor1Echo
July 22, 2012, 12:44 PM
I got my dogs before I got into hunting--so they are rescue dogs, Rez Dogs, -- part Pit/lab and what ever, and already grown. One of the reasons I like to take them is that Sadie has deer radar, man can she spot them. Then she wants to chase them. I keep them on leash, since I found out the hard way. Saddie was new, and were where hiking down an old mining road. She stopped, and was looking down the side of the mountain. I couldn't see anything. Then she was off! And then I saw the deer. She chased them about a mile away into a creek bed, and they disappeared. I started down for her, and then I see a deer come running out. First one, then 2, then about 5, I lost count after 40. Another time she jumped out the back of my explorer when I opened the rear hatch, and JJ followed close behind. I had to turn my rig around to chase them, which was no easy feat, and required me to drive a mile to find a spot to turn around. The dogs ran into the snow line. I followed them for about a mile until it got dark. They were gone for eight days. Running around in some of the toughest mountain lion country in California. They stuck together and came out no worse for the wear. Not my proudest moments with dogs.

Patocazador
July 22, 2012, 02:39 PM
patocazador, that looks exactly like our old dog "Frosty" (RIP) none of the vets we took her to ever came up with that breed of dog. she was crossed with a german short-haired pointer (mother), but we never knew what the father was. are they a rare breed? she was extremely well behaved also. hands down the best dog i have ever had the privilege of accompanying.
x wrench:

I'm 69 yrs. old and have had dogs from age 7. I've never had one as good as her. She hunts everything and is a joy around people. Of course, she had lots of training along the way. I started training her the day after I brought her home at 8 weeks old. She was retrieving teal dummies at 9 weeks and doves at 4 mos. She chases down and bays up hogs and has even caught a very small wild pig and brought it back to me while it was biting her on the neck the whole time.

The breed was started in So. Carolina and rare outside of the SE states. Until recently they were not registered with AKC and that was their saving grace. They were tightly controlled by the available breeders and only sold to hunting or field trial homes. The group that broke away and started registering with AKC is mainly "show dog" oriented and that will eventually result in the breed going downhill fast.

You made a big mistake getting me started about Boykins. ;)

courtgreene
July 24, 2012, 03:53 PM
well, patocazador, if you will forgive my thread hijack momentarily, I'd like to know if your dog happens to know any beagles. My neighbor has a boykin and he seems like a great dog, but my god he and my beagle (also a GREAT dog) hate each other. I mean HATE. I assume it's the property dispute between the two, not understanding that it's us who own the places and not them, but wondered if your dog had a racial hatred toward beagles, like my neighbor's does, and like my dog (Pepper) does against the boykin spaniel next door (rusty).

Patocazador
July 24, 2012, 06:06 PM
well, patocazador, if you will forgive my thread hijack momentarily, I'd like to know if your dog happens to know any beagles. My neighbor has a boykin and he seems like a great dog, but my god he and my beagle (also a GREAT dog) hate each other. I mean HATE. I assume it's the property dispute between the two, not understanding that it's us who own the places and not them, but wondered if your dog had a racial hatred toward beagles, like my neighbor's does, and like my dog (Pepper) does against the boykin spaniel next door (rusty).
Actually, my dog is an equal opportunity hater. She hates ALL other dogs. She either totally ignores them or tries to chew their butts if they won't stop annoying her. It is a product of not socializing her with other dogs when she was young. I socialized her with people and now she thinks she is a person.

She is also highly territorial and actually (no B.S.) attacked and knocked over the smaller of 2 coyotes that showed up in my pasture about 3 months ago. Both coyotes were larger than my 32 lb. Boykin. She chased them off the property.

courtgreene
July 25, 2012, 06:48 PM
Thanks for the lesson, I will twist your words and assume that the problem is TOTALLY the boykin next door and that my Pepper is a perfectly innocent victim of the neighbor dog's bigotry.
That way, I'm not a bad neighbor.

To get this back on topic, taking dogs hunting is a game-and-breed-determined proposition, really. I'd recommend against taking a scent hound deer hunting from a stand or stalking because he or she will get excited and make noise long before a deer is in view. They are very good if one wants to use dogs to run deer, on the other hand. I do not like using dogs on deer, but it's easy to see how a beagle, walker hound, etc... would be good for such things. If they are not trained to do something to help with the hunt, though, then don't take them.

Victor1Echo
August 3, 2012, 01:46 AM
Well, I saw my first buck and it was with my dogs. I actually spotted the does before my dogs. Then we sat on the the trail and watched as a nice young forky stepped out of his willow hiding place. Opening day is in 16 days, or is it 15 days and a wake up? I will no longer be taking them with me. Thanks for all your comments!

ZeroJunk
August 3, 2012, 10:36 AM
Generally speaking I think if deer were spooked as bad by everything as people thought they were you wouldn't be able to walk in the woods for fear a deer would run over you running from something.

tarosean
August 3, 2012, 01:50 PM
The group that broke away and started registering with AKC is mainly "show dog" oriented and that will eventually result in the breed going downhill fast.


let me hear your logic.....

Bwana John
August 3, 2012, 06:07 PM
Shingle Mill Bench. ;)

You probably wont want to carry the extra water for the dogs though.

Patocazador
August 4, 2012, 12:01 PM
let me hear your logic.....
My logic is: the AKC group is show-dog oriented, not hunting. They are more interested in whether the dog's hair is straight or curly (has to be straight for them) than if he's a good hunter with a good nose and a trainable disposition. Look at how the Irish Setter and Golden Retriever has fared under AKC sponsorship. Can you even find an Irish Setter that knows what a bird is?? I doubt it.

tarosean
August 4, 2012, 12:45 PM
My logic is: the AKC group is show-dog oriented, not hunting.

The AKC is nothing but a registry. It doesnt mean quaility or anything else other than they are purebred..

Local Kennel clubs and Breed Specific Clubs put on Conformation, Agility, Obedience, Field trials, Hunt, Herding, Ground, Schutzhund, etc. etc. etc.

I dont see the Boykin as being extremely popular breed (No offense!!) Im sure they will remain safe in the hands of a few breeders. Its the rare dogs that remain unchanged for the most part, because unlike labs or pits and other popular breeds where everyone and their brother is breeding them for a buck or two... thats where Breeds start to have major issues..

For the record Ive owned, shown, and bred many AKC champions in various fields and breeds.

Sorry for the off topic convo...

jrdolall
August 9, 2012, 12:46 PM
I have absolutely no problem with taking my dogs to the woods where i hunt right up and into deer season. I don't think it makes a bit of difference unless you hunt where human and canine intrusion is unusual.

Deer around where I hunt get to run from coyotes, local dogs and such all year. If they were spooked off my property every time they were chased by a canine then I would have no deer and my neighbor would be loaded. Until they got chased back to my land. Deer around here see, hear and smell people and dogs pretty much every day what with tractors running and horseback riding. They will stand in the middle of a hay field and watch me drive a tractor for 5 minutes, now. About two days before hunting season they suddenly get wise and decie that nocturnal is the way to go.

Not saying it is a good thing but it is usually not something that would cause the deer to exit the area forever. I have had the good fortune a few times in my career to have nice bucks or older does bed down near my tree stand. It is amazing to see their reactions to noises in the area. Watching a 3 yr old 10 pointer bedded in a hardwood bottom you can really understand what noises draw their attention. Cars, tractors, distant gunshots are generally completely ignored. They know all the dogs and will ignore Snoopy from 250 yards away. If they hear an unidentified sound they will stare at it for literally 10 minutes without budging and they will react to another deer long before I know it is there. I once had a deer bedded under me that sneezed and I nearly peed my pants.

jrdolall
August 9, 2012, 12:51 PM
Boykins are amazing and a lot of duck hunters are going to them over labs because of the small size since a lab can make a duck boat kind of wobbly. They are easily trained and great family members.

Patocazador, I have never seen one used to blood trail but I am sure they could. Based on the blood on that doe I don't think that was a very tough trailing job:) I really want a dog that will track blood but am too lazy to train one. Seems every year there are 4-5 people looking for a tracking dog for a deer they can't find.

Patocazador
August 10, 2012, 11:43 AM
jrdolall: That one wasn't tough but she has found some that I couldn't.

Here's a link to the shaky video of her trailing that doe:
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll33/docjawbraker/Fla%20Mallard/Videos/th_Blood-trailingdeer.jpg (http://s284.photobucket.com/albums/ll33/docjawbraker/Fla%20Mallard/Videos/?action=view&current=Blood-trailingdeer.mp4)

One_Jackal
August 10, 2012, 08:22 PM
Beagles make good tracking dogs. They are cheap and easy to get. Rabbit hunters hate deer hunting beagles. Just call a few rabbit hunters you will find tracking dogs.

jrdolall
August 10, 2012, 11:53 PM
No thanks on the beagle. I don't need an escape artist that bays:) I have a charity dog hunt twice a year on my property and adjoining farms and most of the dogs people use are beagles. Geez they bark a lot.

DammitBoy
August 11, 2012, 12:15 AM
Pato - that is one pretty pup!

Patocazador
August 11, 2012, 10:59 AM
Pato - that is one pretty pup!
Thanks

Scott_R
August 14, 2012, 12:42 AM
Patocazador,

Great video. Awesome pup. Thanks.

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